MGS4 ending whining thread (major spoilers)
- Thread starter James Power
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JacksUsername
Member
Personally, the most disappointing thing about the MGS4 ending was that it lacked the tight storytelling ability laid down by the ending of MGS3.
While watching the ending of 3, I was blown away by how much better Kojima and crew had gotten at effectively directing the final cut scene so it was engaging and truly interesting to watch, and yet still to the point and didn't have too much excess dialogue. (as opposed to Naomi going on and on in the first game, and the Rose/Raiden stuff that went on forever in 2)
The ending to 4, although it had important bits, just seemed way too wordy, and going over the same points over and over again while feeling preachy at the same time. I don't mind the idea of Snake and Big Boss finally making peace, and the fact that Snake is alive and free to try and enjoy the last few months of his life, but it was the overall presentation and dialogue that really put me off; it just felt as though all that progress they made in the previous game at storytelling was thrown out the window, and went back to a terribly paced final cutscene.
While watching the ending of 3, I was blown away by how much better Kojima and crew had gotten at effectively directing the final cut scene so it was engaging and truly interesting to watch, and yet still to the point and didn't have too much excess dialogue. (as opposed to Naomi going on and on in the first game, and the Rose/Raiden stuff that went on forever in 2)
The ending to 4, although it had important bits, just seemed way too wordy, and going over the same points over and over again while feeling preachy at the same time. I don't mind the idea of Snake and Big Boss finally making peace, and the fact that Snake is alive and free to try and enjoy the last few months of his life, but it was the overall presentation and dialogue that really put me off; it just felt as though all that progress they made in the previous game at storytelling was thrown out the window, and went back to a terribly paced final cutscene.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
Blame! said:
My god!:lol
brandonh83
Banned
Sho Nuff said:
That would be me and I wouldn't trade the way it ended for anything.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
brandonh83 said:
Same here.
viewtiful_dru
Member
ksamedi said:
Great argument.
Crouching Zebra
Banned
The ending is exactly what I wanted.
The OT makes no sense. Stop playing games.
The OT makes no sense. Stop playing games.
TrueReligion
Banned
Yep. The ending was fantastic. I shed a few tears. Last time I did that over a game was MGS3.brandonh83 said:
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
Why is hideo koijima a big fan of that horrible pirates of the carribean: at world's end, you know which scene, it made me cringe.
biggkidd32
Member
I enjoyed the ending, but the resurrection of you know who was excessive. I loved Richard Doyle, though, great performance.
Pureauthor
Member
A wizard nanomachine did it.
timetokill
Banned
I thought the ending was pretty unsatisfying as well. I say this all the time, but Kojima really, really needs a good editor.
I don't care so much about the events that happened as I do about their horrible execution.
Though... Johnny seemed to be Kojima's joke on MGS fans, either that or the fact that somehow Meryl is MGS1 was hotter than MGS4 (those shoulders.... ugh)
Basically they didn't know how to end it without turning it into some wordy, self-important nonsense.
Big Boss takes forever to die, Naomi gets like 4 chances to say her "final words," Otacon "crying" = :lol . Apparently giving Big Boss his cigar gives him a few more minutes and some more parting words. The "fake" suicide seemed completely out of character and a cheap way to try and draw emotion. Basically they went for "let's just get the best of both worlds, a Snake-dies and a Snake-lives ending that seems to be gutless and unsure of itself.
The ending scenes could have been 1/4 as long as they ended up being and would have been 10x better for it.
I don't care so much about the events that happened as I do about their horrible execution.
Though... Johnny seemed to be Kojima's joke on MGS fans, either that or the fact that somehow Meryl is MGS1 was hotter than MGS4 (those shoulders.... ugh)
Basically they didn't know how to end it without turning it into some wordy, self-important nonsense.
Big Boss takes forever to die, Naomi gets like 4 chances to say her "final words," Otacon "crying" = :lol . Apparently giving Big Boss his cigar gives him a few more minutes and some more parting words. The "fake" suicide seemed completely out of character and a cheap way to try and draw emotion. Basically they went for "let's just get the best of both worlds, a Snake-dies and a Snake-lives ending that seems to be gutless and unsure of itself.
The ending scenes could have been 1/4 as long as they ended up being and would have been 10x better for it.
Pop On Arrival
Banned
sky said:
That was pretty hot, actually. I don't know what that says about me, though. :<
fistfulofmetal
Banned
Blame! said:
I didn't.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
I thought Snake killing himself was just as stupid.
Kojima: Oh man, those people at E3 are gonna FREAK when they see Snake with a gun to his mouth!
3 years later---
Kojima: Alright, the story's all finished now to just... - Oh shit! The gun to his mouth! I forgot to give Snake an emo personality in this game!
Calm down, Kojima. Ok, I'll throw in some stuff about a mutated virus here, something about Snake becoming a weapon and.... done! Bam, gun to the mouth! And noone's the wiser. hehehe, Kojima you sly dog.
Kojima: Oh man, those people at E3 are gonna FREAK when they see Snake with a gun to his mouth!
3 years later---
Kojima: Alright, the story's all finished now to just... - Oh shit! The gun to his mouth! I forgot to give Snake an emo personality in this game!
Calm down, Kojima. Ok, I'll throw in some stuff about a mutated virus here, something about Snake becoming a weapon and.... done! Bam, gun to the mouth! And noone's the wiser. hehehe, Kojima you sly dog.
Snake, at like 60 years old, is still in better shape than probably anyone in this thread..I bet he'd pick up more bitches too >>
I liked the way it ended..I mean, yea, sure there are inconsistencies and a few things that don't really carry over well..but in all my years of gaming, no other game (outside of the metal gear series) has been able to tell a story well enough to draw me into it from start to finish. There was a couple RPG's back in the day, but they're a one time experience. This is a story that has gone on for 20 years over multiple games.
When big boss walked up to snake at the graveyard and you see the expression on snakes face..he's in just as much disbelief as we are. It was pretty epic.
I liked the way it ended..I mean, yea, sure there are inconsistencies and a few things that don't really carry over well..but in all my years of gaming, no other game (outside of the metal gear series) has been able to tell a story well enough to draw me into it from start to finish. There was a couple RPG's back in the day, but they're a one time experience. This is a story that has gone on for 20 years over multiple games.
When big boss walked up to snake at the graveyard and you see the expression on snakes face..he's in just as much disbelief as we are. It was pretty epic.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
fistfulofmetal said:
me neither. i think it was great.
i guess people just wanted to spend more time shooting, less time contemplating on the storyline
just play the game over and skip the cutscenes, there you go.
Snake should have killed himself, that was my only problem. Or actually, he should have died after he went through the hallway with the microwaves. Would have been much better.
I didn't like the scene with Big Boss, but it's not like it's an isolated problem. The entire narrative is made up of Snake going to see characters and having them narrate the entire backstory of Metal Gear to him, and it was just an extension of that.
I can understand why he made it that way since he has to close up a ridiculous amount of narrative from all these past games, and he wanted to do it very clearly and leave no loose ends. I just wished he did it more concisely, because I loved the ending up until Big Boss talked for an hour.
I didn't like the scene with Big Boss, but it's not like it's an isolated problem. The entire narrative is made up of Snake going to see characters and having them narrate the entire backstory of Metal Gear to him, and it was just an extension of that.
I can understand why he made it that way since he has to close up a ridiculous amount of narrative from all these past games, and he wanted to do it very clearly and leave no loose ends. I just wished he did it more concisely, because I loved the ending up until Big Boss talked for an hour.
yellowjacket
Member
The ending was good. It wasnt as good as MGS3 but then again no games is in my opinion. I agree with others, that if he had just killed himself in the graveyard then that would have been even more unsatisfying. If they were going to kill him off they would have to make it more emotional then that.
irriducibile87
Member
Steiner_Zi said:When the first credits started to roll, I felt unsatisfied from the end, simply because nothing totally unexpected had happened until that point. Ironically, I felt the EXACT same thing when Naked Snake was banging Eva in MGS3, only to be blown away minutes later.
The scene with Big Boss serves as
a) the big plot twist of the game and of everything that had happened until this point,
b) further explaining the motives of the Patriots and the people who founded the organisation,
c) the death of Zero -the man who started it all- and
d) the final peacemaking between the two protagonists of the series, Big Boss and Snake, father and son, and between Big Boss and his dead mentor, the Boss; giving each character the peace he deserves.
If the game ended with the cliche "happy end when the main hero dies" would be a massive dissappointment for me. This is the easiest way to evoke emotion but it has been used so many times in films and anime nowadays that I've grown to dislike it. The way Kojima ended the game, Snake finally escapes from being a prisoner of fate (both from the Patriots and the Foxdie), receives recognition from his father and achieves peace until he dies.
Essentially, the final scene not only does not downgrade everything that happened in the MGS series, but on the contrary serves as the catharsis of the story.
This.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Steiner_Zi said:When the first credits started to roll, I felt unsatisfied from the end, simply because nothing totally unexpected had happened until that point. Ironically, I felt the EXACT same thing when Naked Snake was banging Eva in MGS3, only to be blown away minutes later.
The scene with Big Boss serves as
a) the big plot twist of the game and of everything that had happened until this point,
b) further explaining the motives of the Patriots and the people who founded the organisation,
c) the death of Zero -the man who started it all- and
d) the final peacemaking between the two protagonists of the series, Big Boss and Snake, father and son, and between Big Boss and his dead mentor, the Boss; giving each character the peace he deserves.
If the game ended with the cliche "happy end when the main hero dies" would be a massive dissappointment for me. This is the easiest way to evoke emotion but it has been used so many times in films and anime nowadays that I've grown to dislike it. The way Kojima ended the game, Snake finally escapes from being a prisoner of fate (both from the Patriots and the Foxdie), receives recognition from his father and achieves peace until he dies.
Essentially, the final scene not only does not downgrade everything that happened in the MGS series, but on the contrary serves as the catharsis of the story.
Awesomely put.
MusterMark
Member
probune said:
Yes.
I agree with this post. Especially the part about Otacon (something I also felt was true in MGS2).timetokill said:
There was absolutely no need to wheel in Zero just to kill him. And there was no need to undo all the tension that they had created around Snake's character with some pathetic excuse. And there was no need to drag Big Boss in to spell out what we were supposed to think about the game.
Have the balls to kill Snake (onscreen), end it there, and trust the audience's intelligence enough for them to sort out the plot and the meaning. Don't throw in a dumbass plot-twist ghost to explain the whole story before dying.
Ending was fine, I just wish there was more emphasis on a few things, for instance when you could do/say/record things without the Patriots knowing (since, after all, Liquid Ocelot had to do all kinds of crazy stuff to make the Patriots believe him).
Anyway, why not let Snake live at the end? He doesn't have much time left anyway. It really isn't a "happily ever after" kind of thing. He's got a year at the most to go around the world with Otacon before he dies. If the next Metal Gear game takes place in the same world with a new character and it is more than one year after the events of MGS4, Snake is dead.
Anyway, why not let Snake live at the end? He doesn't have much time left anyway. It really isn't a "happily ever after" kind of thing. He's got a year at the most to go around the world with Otacon before he dies. If the next Metal Gear game takes place in the same world with a new character and it is more than one year after the events of MGS4, Snake is dead.
:lol @ people whining about the ending.
The ending completely served its purpose. The Big Boss scene was incredible and basically wrapped up everything in the MGS universe. I found it very satisfying as a fan and it made me appreciate even more the series. Kojima did a fine job.
Still mad? FanFiction.net is just around the corner, you know?
The ending completely served its purpose. The Big Boss scene was incredible and basically wrapped up everything in the MGS universe. I found it very satisfying as a fan and it made me appreciate even more the series. Kojima did a fine job.
Still mad? FanFiction.net is just around the corner, you know?
NovemberMike
Member
My problem with the entire game was that he went on for way too long with all of his cut scenes. Having long periods of silence to punctuate emotions can be good every once in awhile, but trying to have 2+ hours of it (I don't think I'm even over exaggerating) just cheapened it.
Overall Kojima just seemed insecure in his ability to convey emotion so he tried to just force it down your throat, which really brought the quality of the performance down.
Overall Kojima just seemed insecure in his ability to convey emotion so he tried to just force it down your throat, which really brought the quality of the performance down.
crowphoenix
Banned
It was the Meryl and Johnny thing that got me, mostly because it seemed to just come out of nowhere. I was expecting all game a resolution between her and Snake and then it ends with her with Johnny. That in and of itself doesn't bother me, but we know next to nothing about him. For how important he was to the ending scenes and the ending, you'd think we'd know more about him.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Whatever you thought of the ending, you have to love the CQC hug that big boss gives to Snake
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