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[slit]

As a liberal I havnt listened to Moore for a long time. But after correctly predicting this election point by fucking point.

I'm ready to listen again

I'm behind him 100% on this

Yep. I honestly thought he turned into a windbag. He was right! Dead right!

 

[paperboywriter]

I seriously hope many Democrats are mailing their Congressmen and women to demand the same degree of obstructionism in a Trump presidency than it was in Obama's. Start filibustering everything. After the Trump University case, if found guilty, I hope they call for impeachment and all. See how the Republicans react. To hell if it's petty. Taking the high road did not help Dems.

how is this gonna help? It's petty as fuck and only makes them look like the reps.

also: he called the election, so what? he got lucky with his prediction. I bet there were a lot of people calling it. i'm not trusting some guy over a system which is developed to accurately predict an election even if it turned out wrong.

There is some truth to this in the sense that left and right in the country dont talk to each other anymore and conduct themselves in their own little bubble and that is a problem, but what he is suggesting is plain stupid and will not resolve anything. pollsters have to put out better systems that take certain things into account that were left out this election.

and the popular vote argument is as stupid as it gets. you have a system, it might not be perfect but everyone knows the system. both candidates had their chance to use this system to their advantage. if clinton failed to do so, that's her mistake. get over yourself. and if you really dont like the system, dont bring it up after a lost election, do it somewhere in between election, or even better after you won, because otherwise you look like a sore looser.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Every single Democrat in Congress better filibuster. All of them.

They fucking better.

 

[DragonSworne]

You want to know what cost Hillary the election?
Repeating "when they go low, we go high" over and over again. Such a weak cringeworthy sentence that projected fear.

I agree with Moore, let's Tod ourselves of democrats that betray liberalism and progress in the name of compliance.

 

[tearsintherain]

I'm a conservative and I'd agree with Moore on all those points. Even conservatives would want a lot of that, if couched in the right message and with accompanying financials to show that your taxes wouldn't rise much.

The electoral college is set up the way it is to give an extra layer of voting between the people and elected office. It is a bit archaic at this point, but it also gives smaller states more power. For example california and NYC ALWAYS go democratic in presidential elections, so there is no point in wasting time campaigning there. By contrast Florida, Ohio, etc can swing between the two parties so a lot of time is spent there.

Gerrymandering is what some of you are thinking here, where district lines are drawn such that the population is homogeneous and will re-elect the same party, year after year. Excluding minorities from white areas, as well as creating voting districts that are mostly hispanic or black to elect democratic candidates - both parties have gerrymandered, although republicans tend to do it a lot more. Some states have already outlawed the practice and require districts be drawn by simple geography, but it needs to be a national rule really.

Voting occurs on tuesdays because sunday was the sabbath (rest), monday was travel day, so people would vote on tuesdays back in the old days of horse and buggy.

 

[ptuck874]

omg, people going to freak out about the electoral college, but remember people, we live in a REBUPLIC not a democracy....

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Every single Democrat in Congress better filibuster. All of them.

Go full nuclear at this point.

Lets see if Republicans can take a dose of their own medicine.

It is sad that it has gotten to this point in the first place.

 

[Regulus Tera]

We lost the Senate. Hillary's victory would have been meaningless. with the shitstorm heading her way.

At least a Clinton presidency wouldn't have meant authoritarian anti-progressiveness state.

 

[Hitman]

He endorsed Bernie Sanders, and was strongly opposed to Clinton.

Tells you everything.

Now I remember what that Moore thread where everyone piled on and shit stomped him was about. Thanks.

 

[Staccat0]

is condescending as fuck.

naw

 

[jabuseika]

I don't get why people hate on him.

He is fucking right. He was practically the only person on the left who was correct all along.

He explained everything for anyone who wanted to hear, very simply. There was no need to make it complicated or even make it about racism or anything else. He was fucking right and that alone means that anyone who calls him an idiot is either saying an idiot accidentally stumbled on the whole key to this debacle, and laid it out perfectly, or, is just revealing themselves to be part of the actual problem.

But you see, his arguments don't support the narrative that Trump supporters are too dumb to know what's best for them.

...he's also a Berniebro.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Regulus Tera]

I see people still haven't learned to not be reflexively antagonistic to the other side.

This is precisely why nobody here heard Moore before this shitstorm happened.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

is condescending as fuck.

How is that fact condescending?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

You want to know what cost Hillary the election?
Repeating "when they go low, we go high" over and over again. Such a weak cringeworthy sentence that projected fear.

I agree with Moore, let's Tod ourselves of democrats that betray liberalism and progress in the name of compliance.

That projected fear? WTF.

So Trump embracing KKK members, spouting off vile racist, homophobic and straight up verbal garbage is just fine. But Hillary insisting people should rise above it all is projecting fear?

I swear to god there has been so much delusional shit that has gone on that I don't think I can get my heads around the minds of some of these people.

 

[protomouse]

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote... by 0.1%... where almost half the voting-eligible population didn't actually bother to vote. I don't think that's worth a bullet point. Especially not one claiming "majority", which is categorically false. Clearly the American people wanted neither nominee, or didn't care enough about the election to bring themselves to the ballot box. Over 100 million of them.

 

[paperboywriter]

Go full nuclear at this point.

Lets see if Republicans can take a dose of their own medicine.

It is sad that it has gotten to this point in the first place.

this would certainly be a healthy approach to the kind of politics you despised for so long.

 

[TAJ]

Geesh, when Michael Moore starts making sense.....

He's always made sense. He's also a god-tier comedy writer.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Cause it makes it easier to manipulate the outcome, someway the senate change the boundaries of their districts so so that their demographics gets an edge and they get reelected.



Odds are it's the bush-cheney all over again, trump's the figure, Pence running things.

Someone actually needs to post a thread about Pence. I would like to know more about him.

 

[JustenP88]

He is fucking right. He was practically the only person on the left who was correct all along.

Clinton's main primary opponent focused his campaign primarily around struggling rust-belt peeps who were ripe for the labor picking. He went and spoke at Liberty goddamn University for fuck's sake (and he DIDN'T concede on any of the social wedges. He tried to compel them to look beyond). He heavily invested in the anti-establishment angle. There was writing on the wall for us to read. We were just too caught up in 'the way things ought to be.'

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote... by 0.1%... where almost half the voting-eligible population didn't actually bother to vote. I don't think that's worth a bullet point. Especially not one claiming "majority", which is categorically false. Clearly the American people wanted neither nominee, or didn't care enough about the election to bring themselves to the ballot box. Over 100 million of them.

So without the electoral system which candidate would win? The one with most votes or the one with the least?

 

[Regulus Tera]

That projected fear? WTF.

So Trump embracing KKK members, spouting off vile racist, homophobic and straight up verbal garbage is just fine. But Hillary insisting people should rise above it all is projecting fear?

I swear to god there has been so much delusional shit that has gone on that I don't think I can get my heads around the minds of some of these people.

here's the thing

As much as the US is becoming a minority country, the hugest portion of the population is still white people. And when the Obama coalition fails to show up to the polls it means that the voting block of white rural workers from the middle of the country is a veritable monster.

She wasn't able to mobilise the Obama voters. She actually made comments that put some of the white people who voted FOR Obama on the offensive. She did a SNAFU.

 

[TheLastCandle]

Can't disagree with any of that.

 

[paperboywriter]

So without the electoral system which candidate would win? The one with most votes or the one with the least?

but what system are you using for choosing your president?

 

[Speevy]

He's always made sense. He's also a god-tier comedy writer.

He's well known for making points with words and a camera that don't hold up to scrutiny.

In that sense he's a great storyteller.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

this would certainly be a healthy approach to the kind of politics you despised for so long.

My sarcasm detector is broken today.

 

[Nikodemos]

So without the electoral system which candidate would win? The one with most votes or the one with the least?

Yeah, I don't get it. In many countries with free and fair elections people win with 50.1% of the vote all the time. What makes it less legitimate?

 

[paperboywriter]

My sarcasm detector is broken today.

i dont blame you, if you are american.

 

[Vestal]

I started throwing Moore into quackville a few years ago with some of his rhetoric, but to be honest he was 100% right about this election and he is 100% right now.

 

[Mahadev]

You must say this sentence to everyone you meet today: "HILLARY CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE!" The MAJORITY of our fellow Americans preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. Period. Fact. If you woke up this morning thinking you live in an effed-up country, you don't. The majority of your fellow Americans wanted Hillary, not Trump. The only reason he's president is because of an arcane, insane 18th-century idea called the Electoral College. Until we change that, we'll continue to have presidents we didn't elect and didn't want. You live in a country where a majority of its citizens have said they believe there's climate change, they believe women should be paid the same as men, they want a debt-free college education, they don't want us invading countries, they want a raise in the minimum wage and they want a single-payer true universal health care system. None of that has changed. We live in a country where the majority agree with the "liberal" position. We just lack the liberal leadership to make that happen (see: #1 above).

Oh shut up Michael, she won by a tiny portion against a complete idiot who couldn't even keep his fucking mouth shut. A moron that his own campaign took his twitter account from. Stop contradicting yourself, the truth is that the American public doesn't know what the fuck they're doing anymore because they're fucking desperate and pissed off because of reason #4 you just mentioned and that they were force fed by DNC Hillary, a rightwing corrupt politician.

That tiny majority didn't choose Hillary for her policies, they chose her because they didn't want the ultra moron. Funny how a self identifying socialist still defends Clinton when he should have been furious at her.

 

[deadscreensky]

The man called this election perfectly. He deserves some respect for that.

No kidding. Just dead on, top to bottom.

I like this new list, too.

 

[jellies_two]

But you see, his arguments don't support the narrative that Trump supporters are too dumb to know what's best for them.

...he's also a Berniebro.

Spoiler

/s

Well actually michael moore says very clearly that a good deal of the Trump base is being fooled by lies and totally unrealistic promises. So yeah, it does support the narrative that trump supporters are at the very best, gullible. Trump himself said it in the 80s: he would become a republican because man those guys are so easy to lie to.

What Michael moore doesn't say is that Trump supporters are all racist bigots and that is the key to the disaster. maybe that bothers some people just like it bothered them during brexit that the reasons were not just or primarily some racism. Its part of the mix but it isn't dominant at least not in the rust belt states that lost the election..

 

[a Master Ninja]

I've criticized the way he constructs his films in the past, but he gets to say "I told you so" today.

 

[samn]

The Depressed Sanders Vote. Stop fretting about Bernie’s supporters not voting for Clinton – we’re voting for Clinton! The polls already show that more Sanders voters will vote for Hillary this year than the number of Hillary primary voters in ’08 who then voted for Obama. This is not the problem. The fire alarm that should be going off is that while the average Bernie backer will drag him/herself to the polls that day to somewhat reluctantly vote for Hillary, it will be what’s called a “depressed vote” – meaning the voter doesn’t bring five people to vote with her. He doesn’t volunteer 10 hours in the month leading up to the election. She never talks in an excited voice when asked why she’s voting for Hillary. A depressed voter. Because, when you’re young, you have zero tolerance for phonies and BS. Returning to the Clinton/Bush era for them is like suddenly having to pay for music, or using MySpace or carrying around one of those big-ass portable phones.

this is fantastic

 

[Crayon]

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

Listen to this man.

Gad dammit he was right.

 

[Kimawolf]

Totally agree with every point but the establishment won't take this seriously.

Then time to pull a liberal tea party and take the party by force.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

i dont blame you, if you are american.

Thank you.

The Republicans started this shit show.

 

[paperboywriter]

some of you guys behave like tea party members after obama got his second term.

 

[vareon]

Tried to read wikipedia and all but still not sure how this Electoral College works. So despite majority choosing Clinton, Trump still won because some people have weighted voice? Or you don't actually choose Clinton or Trump?

 

[Vyer]

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

Listen to this man.

Holy shit he nailed it

 

[fester]

As a liberal I havnt listened to Moore for a long time. But after correctly predicting this election point by fucking point.

I'm ready to listen again

I'm behind him 100% on this

Same. I'm listening. Perhaps Trump ends up being the wake-up call that was needed. My fear is that it will all come too late to do us any good.

 

[Nikodemos]

this is fantastic

Unfortunately for the GenZ-ers, they're likely to experience a return to the Coolidge-Hoover era.

 

[Kill3r7]

Well actually michael moore says very clearly that a good deal of the Trump base is being fooled by lies and totally unrealistic promises. So yeah, it does support the narrative that trump supporters are at the very best, gullible. Trump himself said it in the 80s: he would become a republican because man those guys are so easy to lie to.

What Michael moore doesn't say is that Trump supporters are all racist bigots and that is the key to the disaster. maybe that bothers some people just like it bothered them during brexit that the reasons were not just or primarily some racism. Its part of the mix but it isn't dominant at least not in the rust belt states that lost the election..

FWIW, he said it in 1998.

Also, Moore has a better understanding of the rust belt than most pundits. He understands the plight of the people who live there. I think folks who live in either coast, myself included, failed to see the forest for the trees. Agreed that racism and sexism played a part in the outcome but they were not the main reason why the orange troll won.

 

[HammerOfThor]

I agree with everything he said. I really hope the Democrats step it up.

I also wonder which Republicans who refused to endorse Trump will stand their ground against him, or just follow the pack.

 

[Barry Burton]

He's absolutely right.

Republicans go for the jugular. Democrats play not to lose. That's gotta change, and fast.

 

[SL128]

some of you guys behave like tea party members after obama got his second term.

The tea party were afraid of made-up nonsense that the Democrats couldn't implement if they wanted. We fear what Rs can actually do and have explicitly stated they want to do.

 

[Hitman]

I suspect a lot of the people that derided Moore before and are NOW saying their ready to listen because of this prediction haven't seen his documentary "Where to Invade Next"

If you watched that documentary you probably would have seen that he's a pretty reasoned and well-meaning guy.

The hate for Moore is akin to the George W Bush bullshit rhetoric that anything which criticizes America is Un-American. In this case, Clinton is equated to America for a lot of people. And look how that allowed Bush to get away with the shit he did.

In this new Presidential cycle DO NOT let the Trump convince anyone they are Un-American for rightfully criticizing the fucked up system we have.

 

[Miletius]

Tried to read wikipedia and all but still not sure how this Electoral College works. So despite majority choosing Clinton, Trump still won because some people have weighted voice? Or you don't actually choose Clinton or Trump?

Basically, yes. The electoral colllege weights votes so that smaller population centers get a little more benefit than large population centers. That is because the electoral college elects representatives to vote for president based on the number of senators and representatives. In the US, every state has 2 senators (regardless of population) and every state has a number of house members roughly equal to the percentage of people in the state. So, smaller states have an advantage in the college because even though they might be sparsely populated their senators are split across fewer people.

Why do we still have this system? Who knows.

 

[Jenov]

Ok well wait, now that I know Moore has made one of those write up for like the past 3 Presidential elections (Why Romney will win! Why McCain will win!), his amazing prediction is a little less amazing. LOL. Still, good on moore for pointing out where exactly it happened.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

this is fantastic

The Bernie timeline is gonna be a huge what if. I was pretty adamant Hillary was the better candidate, that America wasn't ready for Bernie's spooky socialism. Now I dunno. I kinda think Trump energised his side more than Bernie could have the other, but it comes down to a wild batch of assumptions that come from personal feelings.

Michael fucking Moore though. GAF had written him off, and shame on me, even after really loving his documentaries, and a couple of his books, I went along with them. I called my dad last week and we got to talking about the election, he mentioned what Moore was saying, and I shrugged it off. Thought Hillary had this. Think I've got a lot more to learn from my old man, I do not have the world as worked out as I thought I did.

Whatever Moore's next peice of work is I'm listening.

 

[tci]

As non-American I can only say something about the exposure from media and some sites. Even tho Moore is nailing some parts, I also think the American people needs to wake up.

I only watched one of the debates (1st), and been picking up stories now and then. All I can say is the election process you guys have is laughable. There is little to no political substance in your debates and what appears in media. The whole election could be summarised with two high school bullies arguing. Is this really something you guys can be proud of?

I think you guys got what you deserved. Now you will have to live with your choice for 4 years. Now is the time to actually fix your silly circus until next election. I didn't think after Bush got elected a second term that you would fall any lower. You really did. Well played, America. Well played.

I almost never involve myself with these kinds of political threads, but I guess this one takes the cake. See you guys again in 4 years.