Obstructing attempts to kill ACA without a valid replacement or fighting against defunding PP are the kind of things that would fall under conscientious objection, rather than just obstruction for obstruction's sake. I didn't say let's just all lay down and take it.
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Michael Moore: Morning After To-Do List:
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PHOENIXZERO
Member
So edgy.
The Supreme Court which gave us Citizens United and killed the voting rights act because they declared racism dead will now remain conservative for the next generation instead of turning liberal, but hey man it's cool because he's not one to buy into talking points!
thehypocrite
Member
Yes. In those states with Republican governors they can enact laws to reduce turnout.
Unreal. In the future we should ditch all the polls and just ask Michael Moore who will win the election.
And while we're posting articles that have been vindicated in the wake of this election:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/
When this Cracked article was posted on GAF, a lot of people here dismissed it by saying the data we had about the income of polled Trump supporters didn't line up with the "poor rural America" portrayed in the article. So the article was written off as being misguided, but now it looks like the author was pretty fuckin on point. David Wong must be in hardcore "told you so" mode right now.
What the actual fuck...
Your statement more than his comes off as trying to be edgy.
EatinOlives
Member
Agreed on all points except with this one.
Plenty of people treated him as a joke because the pollsters and media pretended like he was one. You can't expect people to conjure up reasons to think that Trump was gonna win when every publication was giving Hillary 80%+ chances of winning.
Pollsters created a bubble and put us all in it. It's really not the people's fault.
I somewhat disagree. They can't by any means be Bush era Democrats, splintering and actively shedding all their principles because they value appearance of cooperation over principal.
Warren and Sanders have it right and the party should get on board. We will work with you on areas of common ground(you can imagine maybe congressional reform if Trump gets more serious and infrastructure) but we will vehemently oppose in areas where we feel you are harming the American people or what we view is in the country's best interest.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Want to back this up?
Muppet of a Man
Member
This. Fuck these assholes. Triple down. These fucks are potentially changing the course of my 3 year old autistic son's life because they hate the black man that made insurance available to the most vulnerable of us all simply because the color of his skin. They only care about the young when they are still in the womb. Then it's "Fuck you. Got mine. Here are your bootstraps."
As someone said above, the one caveat is if the Republicans were to try to implement a solution where there exists common ground, such as campaign finance reform or investment in infrastructure.
Discotheque
Banned
the last time i thought he was making sense was during the bush administration. so....right on time. i think he'll have a lot of on point hot takes now with this clown in the oval office and full republican government control.
he was pretty spot on a couple months ago as well about the rust belt and Trump's win being a foregone conclusion. Democratic Party needs a complete overhaul too.
There were people who clearly did. A lot of what Sanders said was similar to what Moore said. But they were written off as fearmongering and hyperbole. The trouble seems to be that it is really hard for an establishment system to motivate itself to shake it all up and actually try and change anything or appeal to people want something more exciting that in the end might not have real solutions for the people who need it. The rust belt is fucked. The young people who want to see systemic change are going to be disillusioned. This is the sad nature of politics. The smart thing to do would be to at least try and start a conversation even if there's no obvious goal. But the "proper" thing to do was to ignore problems you cannot solve and do what you can with business as usual. It's easy to see how Hillary seemed like the right and proper choice with all her experience and credentials, and how the establishment welcomed all that while not wanting to rock the boat with alternative ideas.
He was spot in, and people shouldn't write of Moore a easily. Yes he is a populist (but ideologic) documentary maker, but it's his populist angle that has him in touch with the general population.
From Bowling for Columbine to Trumpland, he's more often right than wrong with his statements and broad analys.
BTW: also watch BBC's Hypernormalisation by Adam Curtis that was released a few weeks ago.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/hypernormalisation-review-944677
"In the 21st century, Hypernormalisation concludes, we are paying a steep price for all this smug self-delusion and toothless political theater. The cyber activists behind the Occupy movement and Arab Spring uprisings soon found themselves out of their depth in the dark, messy, bloody arena of real-world revolution. Western politicians have become ensnared by their own simplistic fantasies, leaving a power vacuum for would-be demagogues like Putin and Trump to fill with their cynically warped versions of reality."
From Bowling for Columbine to Trumpland, he's more often right than wrong with his statements and broad analys.
BTW: also watch BBC's Hypernormalisation by Adam Curtis that was released a few weeks ago.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/hypernormalisation-review-944677
"In the 21st century, Hypernormalisation concludes, we are paying a steep price for all this smug self-delusion and toothless political theater. The cyber activists behind the Occupy movement and Arab Spring uprisings soon found themselves out of their depth in the dark, messy, bloody arena of real-world revolution. Western politicians have become ensnared by their own simplistic fantasies, leaving a power vacuum for would-be demagogues like Putin and Trump to fill with their cynically warped versions of reality."
31GhostsIV
Banned
The most aggravating thing about this group of people voting for Brexit as a form of protest (IMO) was those same disgruntled people had a General Election just one year prior where they voted for the status quo. And our current political system is a total clusterfuck that needs gutting and fixing, but it's easier to just burn down the relationship with the EU because reasons.
Obama proved that, 8 years, and when it is all said and done, everything he accomplished is gonna be torn down by this new administration. Working across the aisle does not work when the other side is not willing to engage whatsoever.
Still seems to be the case.
The problem of technology and labor will actually kill Trump's promise of jobs for people. How will he spin this?
But the fact we ignored that for long is one of the reasons why he got elected. Just think of the Rust Belt and the fucking decades of precarity they suffered when this entire framework rolled their eyes and walked away.
31GhostsIV
Banned
No, it really is the people's fault. From the racist morons who wanted this, to the 6 million or so missing Obama voters who were too lazy to go out and vote but would have handily defeated Trump if they did.
Trump is also the media's creation. You didn't have to be watching Fox News to be exposed to endless media saturation of the orange bastard. It was the media that allowed his many, many issues to roll right off of him, because if he was removed from the election they wouldn't have their horse race and wouldn't sell their papers/tv shows/get ad revenue.
Also, as an aside, fuck sentient cancer Rupert Murdoch. I said this during Brexit - before casting your vote, check that it doesn't correspond with what that prune face vampire cunt wants.
Yup, everything he said was or became true. Say what you want regarding him, but that is pretty damn impressive.
KurtSloane
Banned
He won't spin it, he's already president. Do you think he really cares? Trump isn't a solution, but he was false hope some people wanted to cling to when no other candidate was really listening to them. That he had that advantage in the first place is something good men and women who actually want to help the country need to reflect on.
They need actual people on the ground for sure. Obama seemed to understand that at least.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz3jWJVsErc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0SQiuuK6Ho
Interesting bits with Moore, and how Trump is a snake oil salesman. It was a farce, but effective.
(Although i disagree with his point in the first video about social issues being gone)
So fucking true. I can't believe some people still don't get this. Traditional Reps and Dems would have voted the same way they always have. The deciding votes were the independents, the undecideds and the angry anti-establishment vote.
Hillary V Trump, they voted Trump/3rd party/abstained.
Sanders V Trump, they would have voted Sanders.
The US didn't magically get more bigoted overnight. Yes, bigots were enabled and emboldened by Trump, but they were always there.
You were angry at the system and wanted real change. Hillary wasn't offering that. And thats why she lost.
Mexen
Member
I was telling a colleague about the second point just some days ago, partly as a joke because this is 2016. The horror on my face when I read the linked post and realised that it is not too far off from what can be considered an actual way of thinking. Unbelievable.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Oh man the irony.
The Wraith
Member
Time to man the fuck up Democrats. I'm ready to fight these motherfucking Republicans tooth and nail. I will fight to the bitterest of endings as long as I have a breath in my body I'll fight. I'm honestly looking up how I can get involved in the Democratic party and try to make a difference in my area. I'm tired of Republicans running shit at a local level and I believe the true way to change this shit is from the fucking ground up. Gut check time. Time to punch the bully in the fucking mouth.
Just looked it up and it's true lmao
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1252056&page=2
What a miss, this is exactly what DemGAF needed to read and learn from.
Michigan's polling miss is interesting, but what does that really tell us? The biggest indicator is a wild misread on who shows up to vote for primaries, because they hadn't had a real primary in 16 years, and even before then their primaries were a mess.
There's not a lot of indication it was a surge. Pollsters getting the demographic weighting is far more to blame.
tomato shrub
Member
Despite his ultra-bias, I wouldn't mind him doing a documentary on populism.
AuthenticM
Member
yes
Thank you for spitting this truth early. Trump and his ilk should've lost by a much wider margin than 0.6%
If the electoral college was gone the victory would be Pyrrhic.
saveweyard
Banned
I actually think this is his most cogent point. He's not saying that it's the people's fault, actually the complete opposite. It's that the liberal elite in the press and elsewhere were so out of tune with the majority of the country that people's needs were not being met by either party. Along comes a charismatic figure who promises to destroy the establishment and make the country great again. No wonder he held appeal to enough people to win the presidency.
I am assuming he'll have to spin it because people electing him to do this. What is the Rust Belt going to do after finding out he can't even make the jobs he promises without eliminating the minimum wage?
Maybe they'll see how this entire system, the "establishment", really hasn't told them the truth or proposed meaningful alternative support systems?
It's a way to protect the interests of smaller (population-wise) states. Without it, a lot of states with small populations would be of no interest for the political process and probably just be abandoned. It's not as simple as i make it though, the electoral collage is usually considered bad but i'm more old-fashioned when we talk political-social sistems.
Crayon
Member
Dammit. I'm guilty. I'm not hillgaf but I was having this same shallow thinking and now look.
Earthstrike
Member
That's not fair to the actual reason the thread was closed though. It had more to do with the near constant bombardment of OT with political threads. Gaf is reaching a point where we may need a third political discussion forum.
Still a joke though, just a cruel one. The joke is that while both Trump and Brexit recognize the problem they do fuck all to fix it.
Now that people are joking about him having not wanted to actually be president, Michael Moore predicted that too:
http://michaelmoore.com/TrumpSabotage/
http://michaelmoore.com/TrumpSabotage/
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