It sounds like your deriding everything he's said even though you agree with it because you equate that him stating that Hilary would have won if the popular vote mattered is unfettered defense of said Hillary.
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Michael Moore: Morning After To-Do List:
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It sounds like your deriding everything he's said even though you agree with it because you equate that him stating that Hilary would have won if the popular vote mattered is unfettered defense of said Hillary.
Bad polling and lack of real data completely blinded us, it sucks. Dem's were cocky about their coalition and didn't see it crumbling right in front of them because fucking polls kept saying otherwise and no one bothered to actually check.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Dude is right. We need to give them 4 years of hell like we have endured under Obama's presidency.
Hopefully Trump and the idiots he appoints will fuck up the economy to hell in 4 years. hopefully the midwest idiots lose their jobs to automation and have zero safety net. maybe they will realize that the GOP never have given a shit but the top.
Hopefully Trump and the idiots he appoints will fuck up the economy to hell in 4 years. hopefully the midwest idiots lose their jobs to automation and have zero safety net. maybe they will realize that the GOP never have given a shit but the top.
Smooth Operator
Member
I think the main problem is that almost every forum / twitter accounts that i follow were living in a bubble where Trump had no chance to become the President. It's really important to be open-minded, and to understand that there is a lot of people in the US, with different views.
It's a harsh lesson, but i think it's an important one.
He fucking nailed it. Every part.
Guy gets some mad respect for knowing whats actually going on on street level. Sadly most democrats were firmly entrenched inside their bubble.
chromatic9
Member
Wasn't it won by 0.1%?
If that's the case then I find doing that and what Mr Moore is saying to be absurd and bizarre.
Robdraggoo
Member
Democrats need to to learn how to fight. Feel were always getting punched down by the right.
We had a God damn super majority in 09 and did fuck all with it. The republicans showed the slightest resistance and our legislatures caved.
We did a piss poor job explaining ACA to the public and had to defend stupid claims of death panels and socialism from the right.
We didn't fight hard enough for the public option.
Caved on real wall street reform
Tired of these wimps who feel the need to work with a party that refuses to work with them
We had a God damn super majority in 09 and did fuck all with it. The republicans showed the slightest resistance and our legislatures caved.
We did a piss poor job explaining ACA to the public and had to defend stupid claims of death panels and socialism from the right.
We didn't fight hard enough for the public option.
Caved on real wall street reform
Tired of these wimps who feel the need to work with a party that refuses to work with them
paperboywriter
Member
its totally true that we thought we had it in the bag, but there is a difference between people who follow politics and the actual politicians thinking it's in the bag. clinton shoud have known better. she was cocky, not the people that were following her. she lost because she couldnt build up enough momentum for herself.
I still think this elections was pretty easy to win for the dems, but they fucked up.
A win is a win. Even if Hilary had a 10% lead in the popular vote you'd still know that 40% of Americans are morons.
Fox Mulder
Member
Fuck that.
people feared Obama as a Muslim that was going to take guns and ban religion and Christmas. He gave people healthcare coverage and civil rights.
Totally the same as Trump and republicans having control of the entire federal govt and the stated desire to deport millions of people and take away civil rights. Their VP believes in gay conversion therapy torture.
Thanks!
KillerMan91
Member
To me it's perfectly logical that Bernie could have beaten Trump. He still would have won these always Blue states (even if the margin had been smaller than Hillarys it doesn't matter) and then in swing states he could have mobilized more young people and stealen some parts of anti-establishment vote from Trump. Didn't he won these swing states against Hillary during Democratic nomination phase too? This is of course only my humble opinion as non-US citizen.
Sirpopopop
Member
That's right, keep going on those tangents without thinking about it. It got us real far last night, didn't it?
Zantetsuken
Member
The chickens have most certainly come home to roost.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
The left's Tea Party, and everything wrong with American politics, ladies and gentlemen.
God fucking damn. He was completely right.
Haven't really kept up with Moore over the years tbh. I think the last documentary I watched from him was Sicko like 10 years ago.
Xisiqomelir
Member
A heretic going against PoliGAF's sacred dogma, you mean.
Incendiary
Banned
I read this earlier and couldn't believe how spot on he was. He called it perfectly (along with others along the way) and I'm just honestly shocked at how the majority of the Democratic Party and Hillary supporters just didn't see it.
cj_iwakura
Member
He's spent years making documentaries trying to highlight the injustices in this country and make a change. What have you done?
Hydrophobic
Member
This is probably a drive by post, so I don't expect a response. But you saw one debate in one of the most vitriolic and substanceless elections we've had in recent history, so you assume that every debate is like that? Because that isn't how it is every election. Also the substance-less condescension is unnecessary and juvenile.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
There's gonna be a whole post mortem into this election. The people who work out how to fill in the blanks that everyone was missing stand to make a fortune and hold a lot of power. I think in this social media era complete saturation, good press, bad press, even the almighty meme economy might mean more than we ever thought.
I'm not American either so my opinions here are all meek and mild. Bernie definitely could have hit young people well, but we're a notoriously unreliable demographic as is, and we were supposed to be the new wave that's totally against all of Trump's message.
But it might have gotten the numbers over Trump's turnout. But then you might have to take away the more typically conservative votes that allowed themselve to swing to Clinton. That might not be many though. Swimming through the numbers on this will probably yield some fascinating data.
Holy shit. And everyone thought he was a loon. He does indeed get my respect.
cj_iwakura
Member
Damn, this one stings.
Mahadev
Member
But he is. "They want a debt-free college education"? "They don't want us invading countries"? And this is why Hillary took the majority? No, this is why Hillary lost the elections. Because they're sick and tired of hypocritical corrupt rightwingers like the Democrats lying to their fucking faces and never delivering on their promises. Because they're tired of wars, you know like the ones Clinton is partly responsible for in Libya and Syria.
I get your point, but he should have formulated it differently, much MUCH differently, if he wanted to make the argument you think he's making.
You're acting as if I was a Clinton supporter or voter. No, I'm one of the people who gets to say I told you so today.
Extra Sauce
Member
The problem is that the American political and media machine has become such a gargantuan monster slash horror show that you almost have to be clinically insane to run. That's why people like Jon Stewart, Michelle Obama and Elizabeth Warren are not running.
You're not telling me anything. I supported Clinton because there was no better alternative. Who did you support?
hydragonwarrior
Member
A few days ago I would agree completely with your fiery rhetoric, but now I'm seeing that path is only part of the work to be done. Use that to prevent any batshit crazy stuff they'll try to do in the next four years if it's even possible to do so.
If you are to hit the GOP hard, you must hit them where it hurts - the voters. You change the voters, you change the politician.
Moore talked about the media creating Trump, and rightly so; they also created legioins of devout followers of fringe-right politics. Dems need to take some damn control over the media and honestly invigorate every single last member of their own base to be just as rabid to vote as Fox News, Limbaugh or Breitbart does with their own audience.
Next, you find some fucking ways to communicate with those who are the blue collar workers of the rust belt or the forgotten Rural America. That's the long term goal so this may take years, but if you seriously want to entertain a purple Texas, you need them. It may take years, but every person you convince to at least desire to vote blue iis still a win.
Yup. Bernie was the real deal. The only politician in a lifetime where you can say without an ounce of doubt that he governed based on principles.
So sad that we lost this opportunity.
The bubble is so real from both sides that neither talk either online or because of geography.
Nice to see the points distilled down so succinctly.
Nice to see the points distilled down so succinctly.
I mean, have you seen what Presidency does to your hair?
I thought we learned our lesson yesterday/today about how echo chambers helped lead to this outcome.
cj_iwakura
Member
I was definitely that 'depressed Bernie supporter' who voted Hillary. I was no real fan of hers, but against Trump, shiiiit, put Lucifer on the ballot.
Holy shit that's crazy. I read that a month ago and ignored him
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Well the Bush administration is back so he is relevant again.
That attitude lost you this election. The belief that demographics will hand you the election no matter what made you complacent.
Also saying "If you don't agree with us then fuck you" to everyone all the time did not help attract voters. It only rallied more people behind Trump.
Dems should go ham on the clown circus that is the GOP though. All they loonies in there need to be ridiculed.
AuthenticM
Member
I'm there with you, Mike. I'm there with you.
Democrats need to do way more than just block everything Republicans throw their way, (they don't even have the numbers to matter in the first place) They also NEED to aggressively call them out on their bullshit, Let the electorate know Republicans are selling us snake oil and they have never cared and will not do anything to protect our interests and in fact are working directly against us. The Democrats need to finally grow a spine basically.
Chezzymann
Member
More like a couple decimal points
Mahadev
Member
I supported Sanders and then no one because neither candidate deserves my vote. I'm not going to be blackmailed into voting for a soulless corrupt neocon because Trump is slightly worse overall.
Democrats have been using and lying to a plethora of groups for decades and then abandoning them after the elections. They're a party that protects bankers, starts wars, signs trade deals written by corporations, doesn't give a shit about the middle class. It was time for people to stop enabling them.
I think that's what Michael Moore is pretty much saying. He is saying obstruct not necessarily just block everything.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Not everyone.
The virtual lynching of Moore was one of the more incomprehensible things I saw this cycle.
True, not literally everyone. But he was being treated as a joke by the vast majority. I'll be honest, I didn't read the link prior to the election, but I thought Hillary was going to win myself and didn't think something like this would come to fruition. I was wrong and I'm glad Moore's piece is available for everyone to look at and reflect on. The DNC NEEDS to read this and take it to heart 100%, but I know they won't. The very same shit happened in Massachusetts and they didn't care.
Okay, and how does anything you just said cause anger against Moore who supported Sanders as did I. Should we all have just not voted? Would that have changed something last night?
cj_iwakura
Member
It was definitely a lesser of two evils situation. No offense, but abstaining helped no one but Trump, you have to realize this. It was the status quo VS scorched earth, and you inadvertently chose scorched earth.
It was too late for Bernie, but it wasn't too late to stop Trump. Now it is.
Robdraggoo
Member
Busting out ferehniet 911 tonight (think I still have it on dvd) to pour one out for Mike.
My friend Harry is in that movie. He's the sport coat wearing high school kid being interviewed in class.
I was thinking of rewatching Sicko to see how it's held up over time.
Mahadev
Member
I prefer scorched earth from the continuation of this fucking farce of a political system. Like many others I'm done getting blackmailed. I think it was Moore that compared desperate blue collar people who voted for Obama now voting for Trump as throwing a Molotov at the system. Well, I'm the guy looking at them from my yard burning the fucker down and calmly saying "Well, they had it coming".
cj_iwakura
Member
I don't think the LGBT community that's about to get put over the coals would agree with you.
Sorry, Mr. Moore, but I did wake up shocked this morning. Not because I didn't think Trump was a legitimate candidate or because I thought Hillary was a far stronger candidate than she really was, or that I didn't think a great number of people in this country weren't being neglected by both parties and hurting because of it. No, I woke up shocked because I thought the people of this country would know better and had more basic decency than to look for the solution in the arms of a hateful, resentful, divisive, narcissistic man-child whose campaign staff can't even trust him with a Twitter account because he can be baited by a mere Tweet. That's my bubble, I guess.
And I absolutely refuse to support #3. Obstruction for the sake of obstruction, just to be partisan, is the bane of this nation's contemporary politics. As much as I dislike Trump and fear that his policies will be horrendous, let's first legitimately establish that as he lays them out and conscientiously object rather than object for the sake of party politics and nothing more.
And I absolutely refuse to support #3. Obstruction for the sake of obstruction, just to be partisan, is the bane of this nation's contemporary politics. As much as I dislike Trump and fear that his policies will be horrendous, let's first legitimately establish that as he lays them out and conscientiously object rather than object for the sake of party politics and nothing more.
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