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Michelle Alexander: Why Hillary Clinton Doesnt Deserve the Black Vote
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nitekrawlwer
Member
I'm aware that both candidates have met with BLM. I saw the video of Hillary's short meeting. She called their assessment fair and wanted them to give her policy. Something they were not prepared for.
I'm also aware that their meetings with Campaign Zero. I just don't think I'll see the kind of policy discussions I want from a part of BLM that is willing to remove race from the equation.
Edit:I was at the very least misinformed about the content of C0's policy discussions outside of their website. Thanks for that link.
What
benjipwns
Banned
Is that allowed?
Very good piece. It does raise the question of who to vote for if the democratic party is too far gone from saving. Green party I guess. Is Jill Stein running again?
That's a cop out. He signed in and campaigned on it. You can't sign that bill and campaign on it like Clinton did and then retroactively come back and say "I'm sorry but I was forced by republicans".
It seems silly to cut out other potential choices just to vote for the most "electable" choice.
That's a cop out. He signed in and campaigned on it. You can't sign that bill and campaign on it like Clinton did and then retroactively come back and say "I'm sorry but I was forced by republicans".
It seems silly to cut out other potential choices just to vote for the most "electable" choice.
benjipwns
Banned
What you quoted sounds more like he's cutting out a choice because that person is from Vermont.
Yes, yet another woman candidate for the party sadly.
nitekrawlwer
Member
The race neutral policy and goals on the campaign zero web page along with how one of the founders didn't want "whatever connotation membership brings" from BLM lead me to believe C0 would only discuss policy from a race neutral frame. That assertion is false. My apologies.
Can you explain the bolded part? I'm from Europe and I'm trying to follow the elections for several months now, but I never got the expression that Clinton does more/ speaks out more for minorities. In fact, Sanders seems to be a bit better regarding this. He was ready to change some points in his campaign after BLM had interrupted his speech and apparently he always fought against racism. Overall it feels like he's a bit more vocal/ actually ready to change things.
People on here seem to favour clinton, but I couldn't see arguments for her, it's always a general remark like your bolded part. I spoke with other people from the US (also POC), but they all thought Sanders would be the better candidate to tackle racism. Is this just a neogaf trend?
benjipwns
Banned
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
As you can plainly see, Hillary has the phrase "black lives matter" much earlier on the webpage indicating her superiority on both racial and criminal justice issues.
They should indeed.
Best is when they vote for people on an informed basis with a reasonable understanding of how the chosen candidates stated policy and past historical performance effects their own personal well being and interests and votes accordingly...
Rather than on less useful emotional indicators such as screeds written by political pundits or even other less meaningful points of interest (like hair or no hair).
Can someone explain to me what Dukes is on about? "Bernie marched for civil rights??! So what! He's just some senator from Vermont!!"
So strangely ignorant and non-issue based.
People said the same sort of thing about electing a black guy with a funny name just 8 years ago. (And meanwhile Obama couldn't beat Clinton in New Hampshire.)
I disagree. I think what's in someone's heart is what matters. If they are spouting a lot of nonsense to try to get elected, but history shows they tend to act in a certain way, I'd personally err toward not trusting that they actually care in the slightest about your interests.
Hillary sounds like she wants to finally be elected and be the one to break the glass ceiling. That's just my personal observation though. Maybe you find her a legitimately compassionate politician who isn't in it for the glory.
There's no evidence to suggest Clinton will do any better than Bernie. In ALL polls so far, Bernie is outperforming her against Republicans, and recent reports suggest some Republicans are legitimately torn between Sanders and Trump, but "would never vote Hillary". The "he hasn't been tested!!" retort is baseless. If anything, yes, Hillary has been tested, and she has failed.
I know Hillary is currently saying that, but from what I understand Bill Clinton seemed quite supportive of those laws and said in interviews leading up to the votes that he'd readily sign them. I don't get a sense that he was begrudging at all. Can you link to some video or articles showing this?
benjipwns
Banned
A favorite way of the government is to send them to prison on felony drug charges and the like.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
So basically ...
Don't vote for Hillary.
And this is not an endorsement for Bernie.
...
Vote for Trump is what she's saying?
Don't vote for Hillary.
And this is not an endorsement for Bernie.
...
Vote for Trump is what she's saying?
and we are done here
Did you read the article?
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Only what's in the OP.
The article answers your questions. Read it
benjipwns
Banned
No, Jim Gilmore.
GAF for Gilmore
captainnapalm
Member
It's going to be pretty ironic if black people end up getting Hillary Clinton in power.
Old people are probably going to be even more instrumental in getting her elected, though.
Old people are probably going to be even more instrumental in getting her elected, though.
TheLaughingStock
Member
She does deserve the black vote if...they at the end of the day don't care/care about other issues more and highly approve of Bill Clinton anyway.
Yup, no one deserves an entire demographics vote.
Yes. Sanders isn't a yes, but Hillary is a no. So she is saying that Sanders isn't the option that is needed, but the one people have.
But basically, the whole system is crap because Hullary won't and Sanders can't reform the democratic party in the way that is needed.
You should tell that to Black voters, because it is without a doubt most of them that vote, will vote Hillary Clinton due to her last name (unless Bernie somehow makes himself known). For some reason, Blacks think highly of Bill Clinton despite the results of his social policies towards Blacks. The reason for this is simple ignorance.
They do not see Hillary Clinton as her own person, they see her as an extension of her husband. The main reason the people I know are voting her are for these reasons:
She is a Clinton
She is a woman
They do not know Bernie Sanders
Most of these same people that will vote her that I know, actually like Bernie's policies better when I talk to them about it. They don't watch the debates, they know who is running and voting due to the recognized name.
E-Cat
Member
And Hillary/Bernie... support this?
Wow
Both have changing the criminal justice system on their agenda. Bernie is talking often about the abolishment of mandatory minimum and not getting people in jail for minor drug offenses, as well as helping people from jail back into life instead of throwing them into a loop of getting in and iut of jail because you can't back on your feet. Despite black and white people taking drugs about equally, much more people of colour are in jail because they get picked out much more for this.
He will just Bernsplain to them how dumb they are to vote for a lizard robot witch.
Telling you how it is, don't like it, nothing I can do about that lol.
Misconception and ignorance in politics is par for the course. All demographics have this issue, not sure why you both are making a big deal of it. They vote for what they know in most cases, despite not having extensive research.
Such as how politicians tag bills on top of bills they know people want with the hope of the other side voting no for it for propaganda purposes. Most voters will not know about the added bill attached, they will just see that "insert party here" voted no for something they wanted.
Also I am not saying voting Hillary or Bernie is right or wrong, just telling you why most blacks lean towards Hillary over Bernie despite most I talk to favoring Bernie's policies.
Would do you favors to read an entire post then come up with a conclusion instead of quoting one sentence and trying to make it seem negative.
EDIT:
Also while I support Bernie over Hillary, I am okay with either of them winning and will vote for whoever is nominated. There are such things are wrong/right votes and terrible/good reasons for votes in my view. Anyone who votes for Trump in my view are voting wrong for whatever reason they are voting him, even if it is to "get him in the general because he will be easiest to beat" or "i want a candidate that isn't establishment".
benjipwns
Banned
No, but they have different...levels of enthusiasm...in changing it effectively.
The same goes for Republicans and others.
Arguably on the issue of criminal justice reform alone, Rand Paul was the best candidate in the race especially as he shed his shell as things came towards an end and started really going surprisingly hard against police militarization, and on legislation in the Senate he's pretty much had to work with Democrats like Ron Wyden and so on to try and introduce these kinds of things.
With him out, it's basically left to the Democrats even as an issue. The GOP mostly is in denial about it being something to address.
My particular example was based around the fact that felons generally can't vote. And they're disproportionately black. (And male.) This is due to a whole bunch of criminal justice problems, but where it screws the vote in particular is the disenfranchisement.
I did in the edit above.
That's not always a plus
: )
You can try to do better with your responses with giving a reason why I would be wrong. Unless you admit everything I said is right for good or ill?
Just so you know, I am Black and had a great discussion with not just my immediate family, but down to my 3rd cousins and friends and their associates to talk to them about this election. Young and elders, those I know well and those I don't (with help from my grandparents and mom).
I gave them knowledge on the democratic candidate that I knew and let them tell me who they agreed with more and who they would vote. Despite Bernie being in their best interest (going by the policies), they will vote Clinton for the reasons I stated and the fact they do not think he will win.
I am not going off some mindset of "feel the Bern", I am going by the conversations I had with them. It isn't wrong they will vote that way, but it isn't because they are fully engaged in politics to know the policies of these two candidates either, hence it is "based on ignorance" in my view.
EDIT: Most elders favor Clinton because she is known and the young do not know much about either candidate because they aren't into politics. Most of my cousins are in their 20s now, it is high time they start paying attention to the future of this country as it will have an effect on them as well.
benjipwns
Banned
Look, another poll in which I have a YOOOOGE lead. I'm destroying everybody in this election, it's a joke, they aren't winners. I'll make America great again because I do great deals.
That's not always a plus
beato_angelico
Member
Damn old people, always ruining everything
MWS Natural
Member
Yes the youngins here aren't old enough to remember this. Bernie has my vote but we can't fault the Clinton's for doing what "the community" asked.
Presented without comment, another viewpoint has been penned by Charles M. Blow in the New York Times:
Stop Bernie-Splaining to Black Voters
Stop Bernie-Splaining to Black Voters
AlimNassor
Banned
Being black doesn't absolve you of anything. What a terrible post explaining under the guise of "B-B-But other races are just as dumb". Black voters don't have to vote for anyone. It's been made very clear that America doesn't consider them as citizens.
Well, somebody's operating out of ignorance, alright. You might want to look a little closer to home to find out who, though.
Yaaay, more posts with no real argument, just "I disagree" and "terrible post". Doesn't matter, because I came to the conclusion I did by discussion. By actually talking to those I knew and those that those people knew. You sound more offended by it rather than trying to understand it at all.
Not sure what you are aiming for, it is not that they have to vote for someone as much as they should be more politically active considering how much an effect these decisions have on us. Same goes with younger voters, considering how much fight it took to get them voting rights. Are you saying people should not have fought for civil rights because they "do not have to?" If everyone is too busy sitting on their butts not caring at all about how the future will go because of how the past was and how the present is, then we wouldn't get progress at all.
Giving a background of who I am and how I came to such conclusion was a way to deal with the no response, responses I was getting. Try looking at the replies I was getting where one guy was trying to label me stereotyping all blacks as ignorant. Unfortunately as you can see, someone else decided to be childish about it still lol.
You said black people only vote for Hilary because they're ignorant. What the fuck were you expecting?
This.
Historical context is key, and judging past policies by their current effects is nonsense. Policies exist to be changed.
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