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[Bobby Roberts]

That's just nuts. For one, there's nothing wrong with the existing character dynamics, especially with Dom being the focus.

Dom is a lead weight around the series neck at this point. And Vin as Dom has gotten less and less charismatic as time has gone on. Letty is basically a better Dom than Dom is in both 7 and 8.

The last time he was even remotely interesting is when Letty died, and when Letty came back.

The most interesting thing left for his character to do is die. Which I'm pretty sure could be used as an easy springboard to provide Letty a lot of weight/prominence/emotion in the story. I know this because usually this is how and why women are killed off in male-focused movies.

But again - he's not going to do this because he's very much aware at this point that Fast/Furious is the last meal ticket he's got. This is it. So he's going to drive it until the wheels fall off.

Whatever Rock/Statham do in their spinoff will surpass the main series.

 

[Calion]

Don't blame her. F8 suffered for a lot of reasons and strong female characters was one of them.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I get what she is saying, but honestly outside of Vin, who in the series gets a story? Everyone is a sidekick to him at this point. I guess Paul did before he died, but that was it. I agree with her sentiment, but in the current form of the series, I just don't see how what she is asking for can be accomplished. The formula is speed, cars, amazing stunts male/female eye candy, slamming soundtrack, and somewhat of a plot. Maybe have the next one be her saving Vin and taking the leader-Vin role for half the flick?

Rodriguez's request isn't that unreasonable though and woudn't require significant changes. For example:

• Fix the characters of Roman and Tej so they're not just nonstop chauvinists when in earshot of Ramsey
• Give Letty a greater variety of things to say than "trust Dom!" or "stop doubting Dom!" or "Dom is our family!" when addressing the group
• As Rodriguez suggested, give the film half a chance at passing the Bechdel Test.
• Maybe break with tradition and not use a damsel in distress as a plot device.

None of these things require extensive PLOT to enter a dumb action series, but would be good steps towards actually strengthening the character writing.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Rodriguez's request isn't that unreasonable though and woudn't require significant changes. For example:

• Fix the characters of Roman and Tej so they're not just nonstop chauvinists when in earshot of Ramsey
• Give Letty a greater variety of things to say than "trust Dom!" or "stop doubting Dom!" or "Dom is our family!" when addressing the group
• As Rodriguez suggested, give the film half a chance at passing the Bechdel Test.
  [*]Maybe break with tradition and not use a damsel in distress as a plot device.

None of these things require extensive PLOT to enter a dumb action series, but would be good steps towards actually strengthening the character writing.

Since when has this been a series tradition?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

It resulted in Fast 5....

I'm talking about the character she was replaced with.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

The thing is, what she's asking for isn't some ridiculous demand that would upset the franchise. The female characters all got reduced roles in F8 compared to how things were in 4,5,6, and 7. Michelle Rodriguez had a big set piece in F4, and some legit amazing fight scenes in 6 and 7. Fast 5 had Gal Gadot, who also had some good action scenes in Fast 6. Charlize Theron is stationary for the entirety of F8. Rodriguez only got to look over at Vin with a sad face a couple times. Ramsey is redundant and doesn't even drive her own car. Plus, we don't have Gadot, Brewster, or Pataky anymore. Yet, they introduced Scott Eastwood as a straight man type. And then re-introduced the male villains from the last two movies. *shrug* I don't know, I liked it when the women were doing kick-ass shit too.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Make Letty, The Rock, Gadot, and Statham the stars, get rid of Dom

 

[clemenx]

I'm talking about the character she was replaced with.

It was a throwaway just like Letty is. Yeah, she's "cooler" or whatever but still a throwaway.

In that sense Michelle is absolutely right.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

She's right but FF is a dumb action movie. Good writing has never been its strong suit. People just want to see shit blow up and the Rock ice skate tossing missiles. Maybe she should just look for better roles?

This. I 100% support her feminist message but... F&F movies? Really? Dumbshit bottom of the barrel tier flicks? Doesn't seem like it's a battle worth picking.

 

[Calion]

Since when has this been a series tradition?

3: "Gotta save Neela from DK and the Yakuza"
6: "Gotta save Letty and get her back"
8: "Gotta save and rescue Elena"

And one could argue 2 + 7 too.

 

[Deepwater]

yall are pulling out all the excuses in this thread, it's pretty amusing to watch. I should get my bingo card

 

[Zyae]

Yes, I've been there since the very start.

But 8 movies later we don't need the same panning shot of ladies in skimpy shorts with their ass hanging out leaning over car bonnets.

except thats why these movies are popular

 

[Rktk]

I think she is right, I also think Letty should be let go.

 

[Miker]

It's a bit sad because, as someone previously mentioned, the franchise has actually been better about this in the past, as recently as Fast 6. That movie had a good amount of action scenes dedicated to the female cast, and Letty herself was the main focus of the story, though it was still lacking in chemistry/camaraderie among the female characters. Obviously, the takeaway here is that Justin Lin and Gal Gadot need to be brought back.

 

[Cagey]

Her quitting and getting replaced would likely bring about the improvements she seeks though. Addition by subtraction and further addition by replacement.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

shesrightyouknow.jpg

 

[cromofo]

Do it.

 

[shanafan]

What does this mean "pull a Ghostbusters"?

Who knows, I actually really enjoyed the all-female Ghostbusters movie.

I've come to realization that I find movies that are "very hated" are actually good watches while the "90% on Rotten Tomatoes" movies are completely overrated.

 

[MartyStu]

Neither does Game of Thrones, to be fair.

Compared to the books, the show is doing amazing things with her.

 

[ClosingADoor]

They need to give Letty and Ramsey something to do instead of just tagging along. They really did nothing in F8 which is a shame.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

This. I 100% support her feminist message but... F&F movies? Really? Dumbshit bottom of the barrel tier flicks? Doesn't seem like it's a battle worth picking.

I really don't understand this mentality.

FF can remain the same big, dumb, awesome, action series... just with female leads who are not tag-alongs and interact with each other in the same way that the male ones do. It's not about injecting feminism into these films and taking a "stance."

Roman and Tej.
Dom and Hobbs (and Brian, RIP).
Hobbs and Shaw.

They all banter and play off one another. I don't think Ramsey and Letty ever spoke to one another in F8. In fact, most of the female leads, including Charlize and Mirren, only interact with men.

These are ensemble films where all the female leads take a clear backseat.

Let's give Letty a fucking bionic leg or something and make her contribute to the team beyond making sad faces at Dom. I don't care.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Did people really watch Fast 8? Or did I miss something? Statham, Tyrese/Luda are in no way more "important" than Letty in these movies. She was always a solid #3 behind Dom and Brian, and now #4 behind the Rock, but she's far more significant than the rest of those guys

Tyrese and Luda are good for at least a couple laughs, Michelle is given some of the blandest stuff in the franchise. If you disagree on her being behind Tyrese/Luda that's fine but she's definitely #5 behind Jason Statham now.

It felt like Statham and The Rock were doing a test run for their team up spinoff at times. Hell the

Spoiler

attack on Cipher's airplane

felt like they ripped it right out The Mechanic 3.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

This. I 100% support her feminist message but... F&F movies? Really? Dumbshit bottom of the barrel tier flicks? Doesn't seem like it's a battle worth picking.

On the other hand - when the dumbshit bottom of the barrel disposable entertainment is setting the bar, that means the message (whether overtly or subtly delivered - such as it is) has that much bigger an opportunity to be mainstreamed.

You could make the argument (and Fast & Furious series has already exemplified it pretty well when it comes to diversity issues) that normalizing inclusivity in popular culture would carry way more weight within the industry when applied to the dumbest, biggest, loudest series.

If this series spins off Rock/Statham into its own weird spy thing, and Fast & Furious gets a little more nuts & bolts with the thieving/racing aspect, but now those films are way more centered on the women in the crew - I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Dabanton]

Getting rid of Dom would free up much needed running time for other characters. His now the least interesting character in these films.

Leaden, boring and slows the film down when we focus on him. I can see why he got so pissed at the idea of a rock and statham spin off.

I half joked in that thread last week, that Gal Gadot could probably name her price to come back to the franchise at least for one movie. I mean everyone else has come back from the dead.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

On the other hand - when the dumbshit bottom of the barrel disposable entertainment is setting the bar, that means the message (whether overtly or subtly delivered - such as it is) has that much bigger an opportunity to be mainstreamed.

Hmm, fair point.

 

[Messofanego]

The thing is, what she's asking for isn't some ridiculous demand that would upset the franchise. The female characters all got reduced roles in F8 compared to how things were in 4,5,6, and 7. Michelle Rodriguez had a big set piece in F4, and some legit amazing fight scenes in 6 and 7. Fast 5 had Gal Gadot, who also had some good action scenes in Fast 6. Charlize Theron is stationary for the entirety of F8. Rodriguez only got to look over at Vin with a sad face a couple times. Ramsey is redundant and doesn't even drive her own car. Plus, we don't have Gadot, Brewster, or Pataky anymore. Yet, they introduced Scott Eastwood as a straight man type. And then re-introduced the male villains from the last two movies. *shrug* I don't know, I liked it when the women were doing kick-ass shit too.

Exactly. Fans of this franchise know it can be better.

 

[BronsonLee]

She's picking this battle because:

She's female lead, probably third on the call sheet so she's extremely important, moreso than she was Pre Fast-Five
This is the most diverse cast in a blockbuster franchise going right now, but it still has flaws
Something will probably happen because she said this

 

[Adam_Vania]

on one hand she has a point. on the other hand, she still made 8 movies for them so she's complicit in it.

you'd think if this was "a line you do not cross" then after the first time they crossed it she would use "her only leverage" because "it's not about the money". nope. maybe the second? nope.

ok i guess 9th time she is serious

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What's in it for people to cast doubt on the sincerity of her statement though?

Like, why is that the automatic response? To find a way towards hollowing out her words to show that there's nothing of substance behind them?

 

[Deepwater]

What's in it for people to cast doubt on the sincerity of her statement though?

Like, why is that the automatic response? To find a way towards hollowing out her words to show that there's nothing of substance behind them?

the answer is misogyny and will always be misogyny

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

What's in it for people to cast doubt on the sincerity of her statement though?

Like, why is that the automatic response? To find a way towards hollowing out her words to show that there's nothing of substance behind them?

Because it’s incredibly transparent when you’re cool for 6 movies collecting a paycheque but then all of a sudden you kick up a fuss.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Because it’s incredibly transparent when you’re cool for 6 movies collecting a paycheque but then all of a sudden you kick up a fuss.

What is incredibly transparent though?

What ulterior motive/underlying real agenda are you trying to uncover here by suggesting she's bullshitting and/or being facetious?

If it's transparent, what is it you're suggesting she's (badly) trying to fool us into?

 

[tearsintherain]

I can appreciate her intent but she is also one of the worst characters on the series so its a tough spot as a fan. I absolutely loved Gal Gadot's character and would love a spin off based around her life, but I wouldn't watch a movie that focused on Lefty.

Gisele didn't die by the way, she flew off a plane close to the ground and used her military training to drop and roll. She spent 2 years in recovery at a secret israeli hospital and is just now biding her time to return. She still thinks Han is alive and is looking for him. BELIEVE.

 

[Brandon F]

This. I 100% support her feminist message but... F&F movies? Really? Dumbshit bottom of the barrel tier flicks? Doesn't seem like it's a battle worth picking.

Agreed, but it's a billion dollar franchise in box office alone with a massive reach. One in which she feels she has leverage with her character(maybe?), so why not?

All of that aside, if the argument is purely on moral grounds. The subject of the material in FF is a fine example for the kind of change she is asking, don't you agree?

 

[Vice]

This. I 100% support her feminist message but... F&F movies? Really? Dumbshit bottom of the barrel tier flicks? Doesn't seem like it's a battle worth picking.

Dumbshit makes money and it's one of the biggest film series in the world. A lot of eyes will be on F9 so it having a stronger female presence will have a bigger impact than something smarter that won't be seen by a tenth as many men and women.

 

[norm9]

She's right. As much as I enjoyed F8, there was much to be desired when it came to characterizations and interactions. The cast is too bloated with redundant characters and it doesn't help that they keep adding more. Half the fun of this movie series is how they interact with each other, and in the most recent one, they barely talk to each other.

 

[LoveCake]

I have always rated Michelle Rodriguez highly, ok I know some here have said some of her movies are not very good, yes ok but she always give her best in the roles from what I have seen.

Michelle talks a little about women movies in this street interview from 2013, also shows what it is like to be a celeb and get pestered when you are just out shopping, but she chats freely with everyone there.

Michelle Rodriguez in Beverly Hills

 

[Angry Grimace]

Latinos in general don't have it easy in Hollywood

The thing that annoys me about this meme is that Noel Gugliemi's actual list of films proves the same point without being a joke. Dude always play a random one-name character named "Caesar," "Paco," "Hector," etc.

 

[PinkCrayon]

Yeah it's sad to think that just two movies ago we had some really great scenes with women playing off each other and being part of the central emotional core of the movie. I don't begrudge Giselles death because it was well done, and obviously Walkers tragedy is hard to write around leaving Jordana Brewster in an odd position. But after Elena got fridged so hard in 8 and Ramsey not being much of a character, it's sad to see Rodriguez kind of singled out on screen.

 

[Falchion]

Bring Gal back!

 

[foxdvd]

I have not seen any of these movies outside the first one.

I agree though that women should be given stronger rolls in all action movies. I think the current success of Wonder Woman has shown that people love seeing women be the bad ass as much as the guy. They don't need to be the love/sex object to make your movie successful. We should support movies that do this with our wallet, even if they are not the best because it will encourage more equality.

That being said, it is hard for me, as a person who lost 4 family members to a DUI driver, to feel any sympathy for this person. She has on multiple occasions been arrested for DUI, and even hit and run incidents. Someone who does that more than once is not a good person. So then you start to question their motivations for everything they do. So I start to look at the money and wonder if this has nothing to do with equality and more to do with a larger paycheck.

 

[firelogic]

She's not wrong. The female members of F8 got the raw end of the stick. F6 was really good about giving the whole team kick-ass sequences. F8 is so bloated that even Charlize didn't really get to do much of anything, she just barked orders at subordinates on a set. Letty got to tell Dom she wanted a baby...and that's it. Ramsey just rides along. You can tell that egos are starting to shape the franchise cause some people are getting extended sequences just for gags, while other cast members have almost nothing to do.

Yeah Ramsay was completely useless. The parts where she could have contributed were just given to Ludacris lol. Yeah I know he's also a tech guy but come on, give her something important. Then she gets another opportunity later and fumbles that too. Anyway, I agree with Michelle because I've always lamented how poorly used Michelle and Jordana were in the franchise. But in fairness, the entire cast took a backseat in F8 outside of Vin Diesel. The entire team was pathetic and the writer(s) eliminated what makes a Fast movie enjoyable, for me at least.

I also find it unusual that when a female character dies, no one gives a shit.

Spoiler

When Gal Gadot died, no one cared once Vin walked out from the fire. They gave Han a funeral but left Gal lying on the runway lol. When Vin's ex-wife died no one gave a shit. They just had a BBQ. At the very least The Rock should have had a line in there. He recruited and worked with her.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

"What if we make the FF movies less sexist just because Michelle Rodriguez wanted more money?" seems like a pretty weak angle of attack. Maybe that's just me.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Bring Gal back!

that post-WW star power

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Michelle probably doesn't hold any sway here, regardless of the validity of her stance. It will fall on deaf ears. (and frankly, I'm not sure if this franchise has ANY good characters, male or female)

 

[MontyBrown]

Latinos in general don't have it easy in Hollywood

That is fucking incredible hahaha

 

[Kill3r7]

Dom is a lead weight around the series neck at this point. And Vin as Dom has gotten less and less charismatic as time has gone on. Letty is basically a better Dom than Dom is in both 7 and 8.

The last time he was even remotely interesting is when Letty died, and when Letty came back.

The most interesting thing left for his character to do is die. Which I'm pretty sure could be used as an easy springboard to provide Letty a lot of weight/prominence/emotion in the story. I know this because usually this is how and why women are killed off in male-focused movies.

But again - he's not going to do this because he's very much aware at this point that Fast/Furious is the last meal ticket he's got. This is it. So he's going to drive it until the wheels fall off.

Whatever Rock/Statham do in their spinoff will surpass the main series.

Vin's performance might be shit but his box office appeal overseas cannot be denied. XXX 3 made $346M WW. Hence why he will continue to be the lead.

 

[SeanC]

None of the characters are good but the series does treat female characters as either eye candy or plot devices. Michelle's is a major one yet I really don't know shit about her other than she loves Dom and had amnesia that one time.