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[Topher]

I have a question- How the fuck FTC are able to access private emails of Sony and MS? Government hacking emails or something or MS or Sony are using Gmails like a moron rather than there own services for emails?

Its crazy these bitches can access emails like they nothing. Im concerned about my emails and privacy now lol

They can subpoena emails on relevant subjects. So basically, Sony and Microsoft have to provide them to the FTC.

 

[NickFire]

I have a question- How the fuck FTC are able to access private emails of Sony and MS? Government hacking emails or something or MS or Sony are using Gmails like a moron rather than there own services for emails?

Its crazy these bitches can access emails like they nothing. Im concerned about my emails and privacy now lol

It's called a subpoena.

Actually forget that. You're right. Quick - delete all email accounts and smash all the hard drives.

 

[ToadMan]

vague, I thought next week she would decide but she doesn't seem so sure? surely the verdict will be before the deadline

Meta/within took 6 weeks - that was over Christmas and New Year though so maybe take 2 weeks off that time.

That was a smaller and more focused acquisition than this… The Judge produced an 80+ EDIT 60+ page verdict and order in that case.


It's July 4 coming up but in theory at least her diary is clear… If this Judge gets a ruling out in much less than a month timescale she will have been rushing. A week … perhaps if she does nothing else.

But she did say public findings on the 7th July in reply to FTC query about the 12th. That may mean she wants that out prior to issuing the order.

She also said this won't take 2 - 3 months. So is she thinking of a timescale of many weeks?

There is no limit here - she can take as long or as short a time as she feels necessary. The only question really is the appeal if/when it comes, and if she rushes this judgement and misses points of law what impact that could have on an appeal.

 

[Silent Viper]

They can subpoena emails on relevant subjects. So basically, Sony and Microsoft have to provide them to the FTC.

My question is how FTC knows what emails were exchanged or if any were exchanged? MS can say, we talked on zoom or something?

Also MS can hide private conversation between two MS employees??

MS stupid to reveal Phill private emails like this. My boy got exposed and we witnessing Darkside Phill.

 

[mrmustard]

"Judge says she will file her order under seal and will solicit redactions from both sides."

Get your transparent markers ready

 

[DJ12]

I have a question- How the fuck FTC are able to access private emails of Sony and MS? Government hacking emails or something or MS or Sony are using Gmails like a moron rather than there own services for emails?

Its crazy these bitches can access emails like they nothing. Im concerned about my emails and privacy now lol

They ask for them, the companies have to hand them over.

 

[NickFire]

My question is how FTC knows what emails were exchanged or if any were exchanged? MS can say, we talked on zoom or something?

Also MS can hide private conversation between two MS employees??

MS stupid to reveal Phill private emails like this. My boy got exposed and we witnessing Darkside Phill.

Internal deliberations would be a focus of the subpoena. And wanting to keep talks private is not a defense. If it's trade secrets you seek a protective order from redisclosure. If it's a privilege issue you seek to squash. But wanting to keep the mask on, so to speak, not a defense.

 

[Kilau]

vague, I thought next week she would decide but she doesn't seem so sure? surely the verdict will be before the deadline

FTC uses ChatGPT to compile and it changes all their findings to pro merger.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Call of Duty is one of the biggest names in gaming, so many years running.


They *will* take it exclusive, the same way they did Bethesda. The ol' "I am altering the deal" Vader switcheroo.

I hate it, but the dirty laundry aired out in this trial from Microsoft's corner shows what they plan to do for all those IPs.

The evidence is in what they did with Bethesda and the various other things shown in court.

People say it's scaremongering when I say it'll start an acquisition war, but I strongly believe it will.

I don't get the COD hype.
I started playing Modern Warfare remastered campaign to see what the fuss is all about (never played a COD before, this was one I had from ps+ previously monthly games), and it just seems like a standard shooter.

 

[NickFire]

I don't get the COD hype.
I started playing Modern Warfare remastered campaign to see what the fuss is all about (never played a COD before, this was one I had from ps+ previously monthly games), and it just seems like a standard shooter.

Campaign isn't where hype comes from.

 

[DarkBatman]

They cant for 10 years as agreement legally binding which forces MS to bring CoD to platforms they signed deal with.


Incase of Bethesda there was no written agreement or long term deal to bring new games to other platform or any game for that matter.

Huge difference between both.

Wasn't it revealed during the process that these 10-year agreements contain a clause that allows MS to renegotiate at any time without any restrictions?
Sounds like a plan B to me to make COD exclusive once all relevant institutions have been duped.

 

[Chiggs]

My question is how FTC knows what emails were exchanged or if any were exchanged? MS can say, we talked on zoom or something?

Also MS can hide private conversation between two MS employees??

MS stupid to reveal Phill private emails like this. My boy got exposed and we witnessing Darkside Phill.

1.) All major companies have legal hold policies on emails or other internal documents. This can include things like MS Teams, too.
2.) You can get around this by marking your email "Attorney Client Privilege."
3.) I'd agree that there is some reckless banter in those emails; at my company, we get coached not to do stuff like that.

 

[Moridianae]

I don't get the COD hype.
I started playing Modern Warfare remastered campaign to see what the fuss is all about (never played a COD before, this was one I had from ps+ previously monthly games), and it just seems like a standard shooter.

It's not about the hype. There is a LARGE number of people who play...pretty much just CoD and maybe a sports game or two. When I was at GameStop, that was the only time you ever saw them was the annual release of that; nothing else.

They'll follow CoD wherever it will go and I think the ramifications of CoD going exclusive will be far more severe than it seems acknowledged.

 

[Bungie]

Call of Duty is one of the biggest names in gaming, so many years running.


They *will* take it exclusive, the same way they did Bethesda. The ol' "I am altering the deal" Vader switcheroo.

I hate it, but the dirty laundry aired out in this trial from Microsoft's corner shows what they plan to do for all those IPs.

The evidence is in what they did with Bethesda and the various other things shown in court.

People say it's scaremongering when I say it'll start an acquisition war, but I strongly believe it will.

Minecraft? Games as a service only strive being a service to as many platforms as possible. I would say that Microsoft would have one of the many Call of Duty studios work on something similar to Cod & put that as exclusive to Xbox & PC. The headlines alone for Microsoft making Cod exclusive would do more damage than good for them.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

But it will never be final, especially for the FTC who in August could have their chance at trial while the defenders don't or will be seriously damaged. Presumably all this will be in the balance of the Judge when deciding.

Hence the vital importance of proving imminent irreparable harm to the consumer by the FTC lawyers. And personally, I think they've done a lousy job in that regard. Among other things because they have focused 90% on proving a lost cause such as a possible console harm when their research and work should have focused on cloudgaming.

The FTC will likely withdraw from the process if the PI is denied.

 

[Ogbert]

My question is how FTC knows what emails were exchanged or if any were exchanged? MS can say, we talked on zoom or something?

Also MS can hide private conversation between two MS employees??

MS stupid to reveal Phill private emails like this. My boy got exposed and we witnessing Darkside Phill.

Well, this is why you shouldn't write a lot of contentious stuff down.

My company recently got burned by some very silly
exchanges between senior execs. The advice we always try and hammer home is to use the term 'competitor' rather than name check the specific party under discussion.

At least that way there is a generic nature to the correspondence.

 

[DarkBatman]

The FTC will likely withdraw from the process if the PI is denied.

I'm still skeptical about that. However, I think that they will then insist on a different judge for the actual main trail. Most likely it will also depend on what MS will do after the current decision.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That is literally, the entire fucking point of a corporation. There's an argument to be made that a CEO might be breaching his fiduciary duty to the shareholders by chasing short term profits at the expense of the long term sustainibility of the corporation - tortoise/hare argument - but, at the end of the day, the CEO is always going to care about the shareholders more than anyone else. And that's OK.

No, that's not the point of a business to destroy the company, employees, customers to pay off shareholders in the short term

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

There is a saying in my country: "The fish dies by his mouth".
People might cheer for the market consolidation, because COD is now on gamepass or some shit like that, but once Microsoft gets rid of the competition, we will have to deal with the aftermath, subscription grade content, price control and fewer options and innovation.

I hope this acquisition is blocked, but I'm not holding my breath, even if Microsoft loses here, they will continue their quest of acquisitions and the spending warfare they know they are the only ones who can survive it in this industry.

 

[Satansblade]

Again South African, open corruption is nothing new to me. The fact it was said means fuck all. Just look at our government.

The second that knowledge became available she shouldn't of been there. There is absolutely a high chance MS sent some trucks of money to the right people to get exactly the judge they wanted on the stand.

This is a 70 billion dollar acquisition, I can't believe the American judicial system can be that stupid

So ridiculous. That's not how a federal judge gets assigned. The case is filed in a district, and that district has a list of judges depending on which part of that district the suit was filed.

Theres so much ignorance in this thread about the law (including a son being one of 25k people who work at MS being a huge conflict, if that was the case there would be thousands of judges in conflict all the time, as most live in the communities they preside in. On top of that, the FTC was made aware by the judge before the trial.

Unless the final ruling shows implicit bias in its opinion, there's absolutely nothing to it.

This board is so biased towards Sony that they refuse to see the FTC has no real case. I suspect if MS wins, they will stop providing services in the UK and finish the merger, and return to the UK once they secure a win. If they win this trial, MS holds all the cards (and the UK is already intervening in the CMA ruling, because the ruling only hurts the UK.

 

[Satansblade]

No, that's not the point of a business to destroy the company, employees, customers to pay off shareholders in the short term

Fiduciary duty states that the CEO's commitment is to profit for ghe shareholders. That's the law. The only commitment to employees is to meet federal regulations. Everything beyond that is to acquire the best talent, to provide more value to shareholders.

 

[LiquidRex]

If this deal doesn't get passed can we petition Phil to have his name changed to Frank Spencer.

 

[StueyDuck]

So ridiculous. That's not how a federal judge gets assigned. The case is filed in a district, and that district has a list of judges depending on which part of that district the suit was filed.

Theres so much ignorance in this thread about the law (including a son being one of 25k people who work at MS being a huge conflict, if that was the case there would be thousands of judges in conflict all the time, as most live in the communities they preside in. On top of that, the FTC was made aware by the judge before the trial.

Unless the final ruling shows implicit bias in its opinion, there's absolutely nothing to it.

This board is so biased towards Sony that they refuse to see the FTC has no real case. I suspect if MS wins, they will stop providing services in the UK and finish the merger, and return to the UK once they secure a win. If they win this trial, MS holds all the cards (and the UK is already intervening in the CMA ruling, because the ruling only hurts the UK.

lol you underestimate the power of money my friend.

nothing is ever black and white.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Fiduciary duty states that the CEO's commitment is to profit for ghe shareholders. That's the law. The only commitment to employees is to meet federal regulations. Everything beyond that is to acquire the best talent, to provide more value to shareholders.

Shareholders exist over various periods. Taking this comment to its literal interpretation of only the shareholders that exist now leads us to decisions like we have today. This is not a good way to run a business, period.

 

[Eotheod]

So conflict of interest is dependent on the circumstance, the actual content being discussed/decided/judged and the people involved across the board. That this particular conflict was very clearly addressed at the start and neither party, especially the prosecution, chose to object and ask for a new judge says how little it is as an impact.

I work for local government here in Australia, and a small rural LGA to boot. Our conflicts of interest are even harder to manage because of the small population and likelihood your family member or personal business has in some way a connection to the decision being made by Council. It is up to the Mayor, CEO, Councillors or managers to recuse themself from the discussion if they deem it is impactful enough to gaining a fair judgement. There actually does come a point where one can use fair judgement while having a conflict of interest and still be balanced to the result.

This judge can, and should still be presiding if everything has been followed by the law. That others outside of the judicial system think differently is on them, but the option was provided and no one took it. Now it is up to the judge to showcase fair reasoning on their decision that is backed by evidence provided, which is how conflicts of interest are resolved in such systems through provision of backed evidence.

Call of Duty is one of the biggest names in gaming, so many years running.


They *will* take it exclusive, the same way they did Bethesda. The ol' "I am altering the deal" Vader switcheroo.

I hate it, but the dirty laundry aired out in this trial from Microsoft's corner shows what they plan to do for all those IPs.

The evidence is in what they did with Bethesda and the various other things shown in court.

People say it's scaremongering when I say it'll start an acquisition war, but I strongly believe it will.

It would be illogical for Microsoft to remove CoD from PlayStation, as that is literal bags of money being pissed away just to win maybe some extra few million consoles. That is a hard bet to play, and would need significant evidence showing such a hit would not bring down their potential value. I feel that is why Minecraft and the subsequent spin-offs are all multi-platform, because it is such a huge title that makes killer money no matter the platform.

Plus CMA, EC and others have stated the console portion is not a concern, it is cloud.

 

[zapper]

Meta/within took 6 weeks - that was over Christmas and New Year though so maybe take 2 weeks off that time.

That was a smaller and more focused acquisition than this… The Judge produced an 80+ page verdict and order in that case.


It's July 4 coming up but in theory at least her diary is clear… If this Judge gets a ruling out in much leas than a month timescale she will have been rushing. A week … perhaps if she does nothing else.

But she did say public findings on the 7th July in reply to FTC query about the 12th. That may mean she wants that out prior to issuing the order.

She also said this won't take 2 - 3 months. So is she thinking of a timescale of many weeks?

There is no limit here - she can take as long or as short a time as she feels necessary. The only question really is the appeal if/when it comes, and if she rushes this judgement and misses points of law what impact that could have on an appeal.

but was meta/within also a preliminary hearing to obtain an injunction? if so, having a final verdict (after the appeals.. can they appeal?) in less than three weeks, before July 18, seems difficult. but at the same time it is possible, we always talk about a preliminary phase (I can't understand how important it really is) and the ftc gave a big hand to go quickly imho

 

[ToadMan]

I'm still skeptical about that. However, I think that they will then insist on a different judge for the actual main trail. Most likely it will also depend on what MS will do after the current decision.

The administrative court judge is this guy at the moment - he's been dealing with it since December.

D. Michael Chappell
Chief Administrative Law Judge


What we just had was a federal court hearing, not administrative court. 2 different entities with different jurisdiction.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm still skeptical about that. However, I think that they will then insist on a different judge for the actual main trail. Most likely it will also depend on what MS will do after the current decision.

The FTC trial is an internal trial, it wouldn't be the same judge.

 

[ToadMan]

but was meta/within also a preliminary hearing to obtain an injunction?

Yes.

if so, having a final verdict (after the appeals.. can they appeal?) in less than three weeks, before July 18, seems difficult.

Agreed. This will go past that date even if it's just waiting for the FTC to decide whether to appeal.

but at the same time it is possible, we always talk about a preliminary phase (I can't understand how important it really is) and the ftc gave a big hand to go quickly imho

Yes - but MS do have a case here up to a point. Its been nearly 18 months and the FTC brought this case just before the deadline and then argued against expediting it.

That's FTC playing a game with time - meanwhile MS wanted a proper showdown on the matter to get legal clarity one way or the other.

In the end we've got a compromise - MS got the case expedited a bit, but the timescales to get a verdict will still go past July 18.

So all eyes on Bobby really. Will he, won't he?


EDIT : Just in case anyone wants to compare the Meta/Within judgement and this one

Spoiler

This action was brought by Plaintiff Federal Trade Commission ("FTC") to block the merger between a virtual reality ("VR") device provider and a VR software developer. Defendant Meta Platforms Inc. ("Meta") has agreed to acquire all shares of Within Unlimited, Inc. ("Within," collectively with Meta, "Defendants"). The FTC has come before the Court to seek preliminary injunctive relief pursuant to Section 13(b) of the Federal Trade Commission Act, 15 U.S.C. § 53(b), to enjoin Defendants from consummating their proposed merger (the "Acquisition") pending the outcome of ongoing administrative proceedings before the FTC

And full verdict/order can be read here
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23598337-ftc-vs-meta-within-ruling?responsive=1&title=1

 

[Jigga117]

Wasn't it revealed during the process that these 10-year agreements contain a clause that allows MS to renegotiate at any time without any restrictions?
Sounds like a plan B to me to make COD exclusive once all relevant institutions have been duped.

They agreed and signed it what's the dupe

 

[PropellerEar]

I love the obsession with the word shill now haha

It only hurts when it hits.

 

[Satansblade]

Call of Duty is one of the biggest names in gaming, so many years running.


They *will* take it exclusive, the same way they did Bethesda. The ol' "I am altering the deal" Vader switcheroo.

I hate it, but the dirty laundry aired out in this trial from Microsoft's corner shows what they plan to do for all those IPs.

The evidence is in what they did with Bethesda and the various other things shown in court.

People say it's scaremongering when I say it'll start an acquisition war, but I strongly believe it will.

Sony looks far worse in this trial than MS does, and no other part of what you said is true or legal, just ridiculous fanboy nonsense.

My question is how FTC knows what emails were exchanged or if any were exchanged? MS can say, we talked on zoom or something?

Also MS can hide private conversation between two MS employees??

MS stupid to reveal Phill private emails like this. My boy got exposed and we witnessing Darkside Phill.

They can't not reveal them. Like, I het that my wife is a lawyer and I get a bit more education than most on the subject, but the ignorance of the law here astounds me.

I'm still skeptical about that. However, I think that they will then insist on a different judge for the actual main trail. Most likely it will also depend on what MS will do after the current decision.

If they do not get a PI, this eill be the end for the FTC. MS and ABK will finish the merger, because the FTC case no longer has merit. The UK government is already intervening with the CMA, and even if they didn't, xbox can and probably will just stop doing business in the UK until there is a resolution. The UK government is not happy with the CMA, and for good reason.

I get this forum is super pro Sony, but anyone who can't see how awful the FTC strategy is (and why they haven't won a case in years)at this point is just willfully blind.

 

[splattered]

It only hurts when it hits.

When people use it as a blanket term to describe any fan of your opposing console of choice then what is that called? Defaulting to "persecution complex" or "just a shill" for having different opinion or tastes is essentially gaslighting.

 

[Satansblade]

lol you underestimate the power of money my friend.

nothing is ever black and white.

Getting a federal judge assigned is absolutely black and white, and is based on nothing except where the FTC filed. This fantasy some of you have about paying to get a federal judge is just that, fantasy.


Jusge shopping is real in state and civil cases (depending on the state), not in federal.

Shareholders exist over various periods. Taking this comment to its literal interpretation of only the shareholders that exist now leads us to decisions like we have today. This is not a good way to run a business, period.

It is literally the law, that's why corporations often buy small companies and burn them out for short term profits, then do mass layoffs. Publicly traded companies are, by law of fiduciary duty, a vehicle to create profits for current shareholders. Doesn't matter if you like it, it's true.

And this merger is obviously very good for MS shareholders. It will create short and long term value. Pretending otherwise is more fanboy nonsense.

 

[StueyDuck]

Getting a federal judge assigned is absolutely black and white, and is based on nothing except where the FTC filed. This fantasy some of you have about paying to get a federal judge is just that, fantasy.

Jusge shopping is real in state and civil cases (depending on the state), not in federal.

this is a 70billion dollar case, anything in life requires knowing the right people and who to give the right money to.

the US literally has 2 current presidents (technically ones son, but still tangential) under investigation for literally this sort of corruption, to think MS (one of the richest companies in the world, known for antitrust behaviour) isn't going to do everything in their power to get the outcome they want is extremely naïve.

There are many officials driving new mercs from this trial.

to be clear Sony will be doing the exact same thing to a much lesser success, MS is spending 70bil here, their infinite pool of money can go to anything they need it to.

 

[Sanepar]

So the deal will be close week of July 10?

 

[harry mason 1989]

So the deal will be close week of July 10?

Yes

 

[FoxMcChief]

Are all signs pointing to that happening?

I don't know. I think the odds are lower that it gets blocked. You can't go by the comments and evidence that you read here. The judge can only make her decision off the evidence and testimonies given in the case. And I'm not sure the FTC had a great showing, enough to sway this judge.

 

[DarkBatman]

Sony looks far worse in this trial than MS does, and no other part of what you said is true or legal, just ridiculous fanboy nonsense.

They can't not reveal them. Like, I het that my wife is a lawyer and I get a bit more education than most on the subject, but the ignorance of the law here astounds me.

If they do not get a PI, this eill be the end for the FTC. MS and ABK will finish the merger, because the FTC case no longer has merit. The UK government is already intervening with the CMA, and even if they didn't, xbox can and probably will just stop doing business in the UK until there is a resolution. The UK government is not happy with the CMA, and for good reason.

I get this forum is super pro Sony, but anyone who can't see how awful the FTC strategy is (and why they haven't won a case in years)at this point is just willfully blind.

This is such an ill-considered, completely blind pro MS post that I felt embarrassed just reading it.

How is MS supposed to complete the deal without approval from the CMA when that is one of the existential conditions of the deal?

 

[Moridianae]

"Fanboy nonsense" because I disagree with Microsoft's ambitions, which were laid bare? Fuck outta here.

Bear in mind I've been critical of Sony as well.

 

[FoxMcChief]

"Fanboy nonsense" because I disagree with Microsoft's ambitions, which were laid bare? Fuck outta here.

Bear in mind I've been critical of Sony as well.

I think that's the bad thing that's come out of this acquisition. The wool has been pulled out from over my eyes and I realized that all these game companies are run by pieces of shit.

 

[LordCBH]

Sony looks far worse in this trial than MS does, and no other part of what you said is true or legal, just ridiculous fanboy nonsense.

They can't not reveal them. Like, I het that my wife is a lawyer and I get a bit more education than most on the subject, but the ignorance of the law here astounds me.

If they do not get a PI, this eill be the end for the FTC. MS and ABK will finish the merger, because the FTC case no longer has merit. The UK government is already intervening with the CMA, and even if they didn't, xbox can and probably will just stop doing business in the UK until there is a resolution. The UK government is not happy with the CMA, and for good reason.

I get this forum is super pro Sony, but anyone who can't see how awful the FTC strategy is (and why they haven't won a case in years)at this point is just willfully blind.

This post is nothing but dogshit moon logic.

 

[zapper]

So all eyes on Bobby really. Will he, won't he?

oh god, will bobby decide? if it were for him he would be the first to come out but if we want to believe his testimony then the shareholders will decide and they will have to do it before the verdict (unless the judge completely rushes the whole process)

 

[splattered]

I think that's the bad thing that's come out of this acquisition. The wool has been pulled out from over my eyes and I realized that all these game companies are run by pieces of shit.

Did you really think otherwise prior to this acquisition?

 

[FoxMcChief]

Did you really think otherwise prior to this acquisition?

I honestly never thought about it.

 

[Silent Viper]

Well, this is why you shouldn't write a lot of contentious stuff down.

My company recently got burned by some very silly
exchanges between senior execs. The advice we always try and hammer home is to use the term 'competitor' rather than name check the specific party under discussion.

At least that way there is a generic nature to the correspondence.

Its baffling they discuss all this sensitive stuff casually through emails but not through private voice chat.

They have outlook messenger and other chat services they can use to voice chat than fucking typing dumb shit and making fool out of themselves lol

 

[Three]

Its baffling they discuss all this sensitive stuff casually through emails but not through private voice chat.

They have outlook messenger and other chat services they can use to voice chat than fucking typing dumb shit and making fool out of themselves lol

There are probably countless conversations that could be far worse than what we've seen but the emails of them discussing it are just what have come to light because you're not really thinking like a mastermind criminal when you're just trying to communicate.

 

[Sanepar]

I don't get the COD hype.
I started playing Modern Warfare remastered campaign to see what the fuss is all about (never played a COD before, this was one I had from ps+ previously monthly games), and it just seems like a standard shooter.

It is not about campaign first of all. Best mp out there solo or with friends. For 10min only or for hours.

 

[FoxMcChief]

It is not about campaign first of all. Best mp out there solo or with friends. For 10min only or for hours.

Yeah, I haven't played it in years, but even the last time I played multiplayer CoD, it was great fun. Hell, even the mobile game is fun.

 

[Darsxx82]

The FTC will likely withdraw from the process if the PI is denied.

I don't think so, not until the issue in the UK is resolved by the CAT in some way unfavorable to the CMA.

We Will see.