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[Milchjon]

Regarding those new screenshots:

MS simply cares about personal liberty. YOU decide how pretty you want it to be.

With great power comes great responsibility!

Spoiler

Why the fuck do they have to pick an odd number of columns. Makes it so much harder to give it some semblance of harmony.

 

[Flatline]

Luckily you can pin only the things you want on the main screen. And its not like you don't know what kind of apps you have downloaded

That's a given that you can, not being able to do that would be a disaster. That's not the point, the point is that the tiles are bland and very similar, not to mention ugly.

 

[Suikoguy]

"You have a busy life, and we believe this should be reflected on your phone. What's going on tomorrow? Lots of shit, from the looks of it. Where? Who the fuck knows. But one thing is for sure, with Microsoft's Lots of Tiles™ Technology, you won't ever be without some vague-looking square to jab at while you try to figure it out."

This made my day, thank you.

 

[Milchjon]

That's a given that you can, not being able to do that would be a disaster. That's not the point, the point is that the tiles are bland and very similar, not to mention ugly.

A competently set up WP start screen still looks brilliant. The only thing that comes close requires quite a bit customisation on Android. None of the non-customized competing OSs come close.

 

[Azih]

That's a given that you can, not being able to do that would be a disaster. That's not the point, the point is that the tiles are bland and very similar, not to mention ugly.

Well giving users more ability to customize a screen means giving them the ability to make some really ugly layouts (classic myspace style). Is it better to restrict users to a grid of icons to prevent them from doing what seems like dumb stuff?

That phone layout is weird though, why are the multiple icons for ie and messaging and mail and two tiles for phone, one large and one small?

 

[The Faceless Master]

That's on a 6" screen to be fair.

looks fine on a 5.5" screen.

 

[Milchjon]

That phone layout is weird though, why are the multiple icons for ie and messaging and mail and two tiles for phone, one large and one small?

You mean the second screen? That's a bad fanmade mock up. It even uses the HTC clock tile on a Nokia.

Edit: Or I'm really confused. Now I'm not sure anymore.

 

[Zhuk86]

I'm a huge fan of the Lumia range and Nokia, this is a great move for Microsoft as not only do they get Nokia's smartphone business, but nearly all of the companies talent and senior executives as well who will continue to run the company as the devices division, PLUS all the patents that Nokia has built up over the years.

The Lumia range is a great lineup, and great phones at every price point, which is important so they can compete with Samsung. Is there any smartphone manufacturers apart from Apple and Sony that makes devices as high quality or as beautiful as a Lumia? Also the Lumia 520 is incredible value and a better smartphone than any android phone out there at that price point. On the other end you have the 1020, which has a camera that is amazing and is a beautiful device.

As for the future, Windows Phone will migrate into Asha phones (which sell by the tens of millions) and then even feature phones when it is technologically possible, which Nokia sells hundreds of millions of devices a year.

All for roughly HALF what Google paid for Motorola, and less than what they paid for Skype? Best acquisition Microsoft has made in years.

 

[lastflowers]

Well giving users more ability to customize a screen means giving them the ability to make some really ugly layouts (classic myspace style). Is it better to restrict users to a grid of icons to prevent them from doing what seems like dumb stuff?

That phone layout is weird though, why are the multiple icons for ie and messaging and mail and two tiles for phone, one large and one small?

Spoiler

Work on WP team, so consider me bias.

The beauty of Windows Phone is the ability to deeplink/pin different aspects of any given app. With Photos, you can pin an album. Within the 'People' App, you can pin any contact or pin a group of contacts. Within the Maps App, you can pin a location. Within IE you can pin a specific webpage. On a cooking app, you would theoretically be able to pin a specific recipe.

I use it quite often for daily/weekend special events where something will be used repeatedly.

As per your question: Not sure on the phone/messaging/ie icon, which indicates its fake. The mailbox you would pin your different email accounts. One for gmail, one for exchange, or you can merge email accounts and pin that one.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Spoiler

Work on WP team, so consider me bias.

The beauty of Windows Phone is the ability to deeplink/pin different aspects of any given app. With Photos, you can pin an album. Within the 'People' App, you can pin any contact or pin a group of contacts. Within the Maps App, you can pin a location. Within IE you can pin a specific webpage. On a cooking app, you would theoretically be able to pin a specific recipe.

I use it quite often for daily/weekend special events where something will be used repeatedly.

As per your question: Not sure on the phone/messaging/ie icon, which indicates its fake. The mailbox you would pin your different email accounts. One for gmail, one for exchange, or you can merge email accounts and pin that one.

Yeah, I will often pin map locations for quick access.

 

[Rad-]

I'm a huge fan of the Lumia range and Nokia, this is a great move for Microsoft as not only do they get Nokia's smartphone business, but nearly all of the companies talent and senior executives as well who will continue to run the company as the devices division, PLUS all the patents that Nokia has built up over the years.

The Lumia range is a great lineup, and great phones at every price point, which is important so they can compete with Samsung. Is there any smartphone manufacturers apart from Apple and Sony that makes devices as high quality or as beautiful as a Lumia? Also the Lumia 520 is incredible value and a better smartphone than any android phone out there at that price point. On the other end you have the 1020, which has a camera that is amazing and is a beautiful device.

As for the future, Windows Phone will migrate into Asha phones (which sell by the tens of millions) and then even feature phones when it is technologically possible, which Nokia sells hundreds of millions of devices a year.

All for roughly HALF what Google paid for Motorola, and less than what they paid for Skype? Best acquisition Microsoft has made in years.

Except MS will very likely axe most of Nokia's engineering talent and move the designing to somewhere like the US. It's already a big talking point here in Finland and that it will happen in the near future.

And many higher position engineering guys are already leaving, like the leading design manager left with this news. They know what's coming.

 

[numble]

All for roughly HALF what Google paid for Motorola, and less than what they paid for Skype? Best acquisition Microsoft has made in years.

Google sold off the Motorola Home unit for $2.4 billion and received Motorola's cash reserves of $3 billion (basically, they paid $12.5 billion but received $5.5 billion back); the net cost to Google was roughly same for Motorola as Microsoft for Nokia. Google bought a crappier manufacturer but also owns the patents outright (even if Google overvalued the patents).

 

[Cipherr]

=

lol

MSFT down 5%. NOK up almost 40%. Shareholders don't see this changing the status quo much for Redmond.

Yeah, sort of saw that coming. Sounds like a great win for Nokia to get that cash for selling off that portion... Im not however convinced about the future of that arm under Microsofts banner. Time will tell.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Google sold off the Motorola Home unit for $2.4 billion and received Motorola's cash reserves of $3 billion (basically, they paid $12.5 billion but received $5.5 billion back); the net cost to Google was roughly same for Motorola as Microsoft for Nokia. Google bought a crappier manufacturer but also owns the patents outright (even if Google overvalued the patents).

It irks me that so many financial places are getting it wrong today by saying MS have bought the relevant patents for €1.65 instead of the 10y non-exclusive licence that has been agreed.

 

[Black-Box]

Heh it almost looks like cellphone reception bars.


Anyone remember this?

I thought it looked pretty good. Big tiles are better though on a Phablet.

Hopefully WP8.1 has options for group titles and adds back some negative space that was important to the original design of Metro.

That looks a lot better then the other image.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

How are you even supposed to touch some of those tiny icons? If those were links in mobile Chrome the magnifier would pop up so you could actually choose, lol.

 

[Joe]

what weather app is that?!

 

[markot]

Except for the fact that it's over a year out of date with wildly inaccurate future predictions.

Nokia is coming close to selling as many Lumias each quarter as every Android manufacturer (except Samsung) is selling total smartphones.

Lying is bad for you.

 

[Totakeke]

Lying is bad for you.

Would you like to present some figures?

 

[markot]

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2573415

From those figures, Lenovo, LG, ZTE, the only listed ones, are all selling more android phones than Nokia is selling.

Ze list is also indicitive of Nokias eroding position in all positions of hte mobile phone market, and why they sold it.

Do you seriously think they would have sold it if they thought they were going to keep making money on the phone business? No. Its a black hole. So is Windows phone, even with all the money Microsoft is pumping into it.

Windows phone grew .7 in a year. Symbian lost over 5% in the same period. That means next to no retention of Symbian users for Nokia.

Secondly to add to the salt that is the grave of Nokia mobile, Nokia went from the same period, from selling almost 20million fewer mobile phones in total, in all catagories. Most of that, eaten up by Samsung, not the cheaper Chinese vendors.

Nokia mobile was dying, Windows phone was a failure, the entire idea behind switching was to save the mobile division. They failed. Elop failed. Windows phone has failed.

Lets not also pretend this is not a huge indictment on Microsoft. They were given a huge foothold when Nokia decided to throw their hat into their ring. And what came of it? Billions in payments, billions more in losses. And to save face (I guess, cause its not to make money) They bought out the mobile division for chump change.

Nokia is dead. The king reduced to a joker, in the pocket of the man with the business accumen of a ring tailed lemur. Ballmer.

But dont worry, one day, the whole stratagy will pay off. People will flock to Windows 8 and windows phone.... one day.... Youll see....

And the cherry on top of the pie that is all this monumental failure? Elop is not only getting a great position at micorosft, he is also being considered as the new CEO. !

Only in the business world can such astounding failure be greated with promotions.

No one can say they fucked up. Instead we have all this PR drivel disgusing the fact that the king is dead, and the emporer has no clothes.

If Nokia had any confidence in mobile they wouldnt have sold.

Now imagine competence!

Nokia switches all their phones, from low to high end, to android. They 'cant differentiate'? Not a big deal when the alternative is not existing. Hell, Meego would have been a better investment for them.

There is no reason. At all. In the world. For them to have gone all in with the smallest player in the market. None. They could have forked android, they could have carried on with meego, they could have stuck to symbian. I gurantee using my immense brain power, that they would be in a better position then they are now. Which is dead.

Its sad when a player dies. Nokia is dead. Microsoft and Elop killed it, either though immense incompetence, or through more sinister deviations.




Also to add to the humour that is this tumour? I called it, most people called it, they were dismissed, yet standing over the corpse of Nokia phones, they are the only ones smiling. (Cause they were right, not happy that it died)

 

[Totakeke]

Sorry, not going to read your story. To be fair, who really cares about Lenovo, LG, ZTE smartphones? Okay, maybe LG with their Nexus 4, but otherwise no one hold their phones in high regard. Their markets are much different than what is discussed here or what people have in mind when they say Nokia should make Android phones.

 

[videogamer]

Sorry, not going to read your story. To be fair, who really cares about Lenovo, LG, ZTE smartphones? Okay, maybe LG with their Nexus 4, but otherwise no one hold their phones in high regard. Their markets are much different than what is discussed here or what people have in mind when they say Nokia should make Android phones.

Why are you moving the goalposts? You asked for evidence, he provided it, and now you downplay his evidence. Shouldn't you thank him for the help?

 

[Totakeke]

Why are you moving the goalposts? You asked for evidence, he provided it, and now you downplay his evidence. Shouldn't you thank him for the help?

Because that's how it is. I'm not moving the goalposts at all since I haven't set any. Calm down.

Is 11 mil vs. 7 mil close? Why not?

 

[markot]

Why are you moving the goalposts? You asked for evidence, he provided it, and now you downplay his evidence. Shouldn't you thank him for the help?

Evidence doesnt matter to people.

People who thought the move to windows phone was great will still think it was, that Nokia was doomed no matter what. (It wasnt, and wasnt)

People who think Nokia was a growing and on the move up will still think that, even though Nokia sold the phone business. (You dont sell something with a bright future ahead of it)

 

[numble]

Would you like to present some figures?

That Q2 2013 is still lower than the Q1 2012 (when Symbian phones were still being sold). Nokia is not close to every other manufacturer.

Sony Q2 2013 is 9.6 million, and doesn't even chart on Gartner's top 5 list. Other outlets like Strategy Analytics and Canalys also put Huawei and Yulong at over 10 million smartphones sold in Q2 2013. Trendforce also puts Coolpad at over 10 million.

Manufacturers with more smartphone sales in Q2 2013, based on Gartner, Strategy Analytics, Canalys, and Trendforce.

Samsung
Apple
LG
Lenovo
ZTE
Sony
Huawei
Yulong
Coolpad

Congratulations on spinning being at the bottom of the Top 10 as positive news.

 

[videogamer]

Because that's how it is. I'm not moving the goalposts at all since I haven't set any. Calm down.

Is 11 mil vs. 7 mil close? Why not?

First you ask for evidence. He gives it. Then you imply that the manufacturers he mentioned do not matter. You are dismissing all the work he did for you.

 

[Totakeke]

That Q2 2013 is still lower than the Q1 2012 (when Symbian phones were still being sold). Nokia is not close to every other manufacturer.

Sony Q2 2013 is 9.6 million, and doesn't even chart on Gartner's top 5 list. Other outlets like Strategy Analytics and Canalys also put Huawei and Yulong at over 10 million smartphones sold in Q2 2013. Trendforce also puts Coolpad at over 10 million.

Manufacturers with more smartphone sales in Q2 2013, based on Gartner, Strategy Analytics, Canalys, and Trendforce.

Samsung
Apple
LG
Lenovo
ZTE
Sony
Huawei
Yulong
Coolpad

Congratulations on spinning being at the bottom of the Top 10 as positive news.

Thanks. Sure, they're not the top or even near the very top by any means, but the Lumia sales are growing and it's not a hugeee stretch to suggest that they might catch up.

First you ask for evidence. He gives it. Then you imply that the manufacturers he mentioned do not matter. You are dismissing all the work he did for you.

Go cry me a river.

 

[videogamer]

Go cry me a river.

This is not a respectful attitude-- neither to me nor to the people who have helped to educate you.

 

[Totakeke]

This is not a respectful attitude.

Yeah, whatever.

 

[videogamer]

Yeah, whatever.

Then why ask for evidence if you are going to just dismiss it and treat other people badly?

 

[numble]

Thanks. Sure, they're not the top or even near the very top by any means, but the Lumia sales are growing and it's not a hugeee stretch to suggest that they might catch up.

You might want to look at the growth rate of ZTE, Lenovo, Huawei, Yulong, and Coolpad. Even those that don't do as well as Nokia right now, like Xiaomi and TCL Alcatel, are growing at faster rates. These guys mostly tripled their shipments from 2012 to 2013 (with the exception of ZTE). Nokia did not even double. Nokia's shipments in Q2 2012 were higher than these guys (except ZTE).

 

[Log4Girlz]

I love the desktop wall paper in the upper right corner, tulips...how beautiful.

 

[Totakeke]

You might want to look at the growth rate of ZTE, Lenovo, Huawei, Yulong, and Coolpad. Even those that don't do as well as Nokia right now, like Xiaomi and TCL Alcatel, are growing at faster rates. These guys mostly tripled their shipments from 2012 to 2013. Nokia did not even double.

Quite different markets though, if anything those markets are "traditional" phone manufacturers like Sony, HTC, and Motorola failed to capture for some reason. If anything, people could argue Nokia made the wrong move trying to go after the NA market instead of focusing on other markets. In the tech space that people normally discuss here and on tech sites, those names really don't appear often.

 

[zhorkat]

I mean, Nokia wasn't selling smartphones at fantastically large numbers, but it's not like 7.4 million is utterly atrocious either. Sure, it's not LG's 12.1 million, but it's not like going Android was a sure bet either, seeing as HTC is not doing particularly well despite the HTC One being well liked.

 

[markot]

I mean, Nokia wasn't selling smartphones at fantastically large numbers, but it's not like 7.4 million is utterly atrocious either. Sure, it's not LG's 12.1 million, but it's not like going Android was a sure bet either, seeing as HTC is not doing particularly well despite the HTC One being well liked.

Mismanagement has little to do with the OS. HTC hopefully stays around, I like my one >.<

But surely, diversifying instead of going all in, like they were in vegas on though theyd have one last roll of the dice, could have been a better idea when you are dealing with a company that once eclipsed samsung and all others by so much it was the nokia market for all intents.

 

[numble]

Quite different markets though, if anything those markets are "traditional" phone manufacturers like Sony, HTC, and Motorola failed to capture for some reason. If anything, people could argue Nokia made the wrong move trying to go after the NA market instead of focusing on other markets. In the tech space that people normally discuss here and on tech sites, those names really don't appear often.

It's a worldwide market. I'm pretty sure every manufacturer is trying to capture the China market. Nokia's China sales dropped by 57% in Q2 2013. And there were similar drops in preceding quarters. Nokia used to have 50% marketshare in China.

 

[Totakeke]

It's a worldwide market. I'm pretty sure every manufacturer is trying to capture the China market. Nokia's China sales dropped by 57% in Q2 2013. And there were similar drops in preceding quarters. Nokia used to have 50% marketshare in China.

Let's just put it this way, if I could say Nokia sells more smartphones than Sony, HTC, LG, and Motorola, while still selling significantly lower than the manufacturers that are gaining rapidly in China, less people here would think Nokia going Windows Phone was the death knell of the company.

 

[numble]

Let's just put it this way, if I could say Nokia sells more smartphones than Sony, HTC, LG, and Motorola, while still selling significantly lower than the manufacturers that are gaining rapidly in China, less people here would think Nokia going Windows Phone was the death knell of the company.

Nokia was selling 10.2 million smartphones in Q2 2012, and in the top 3 of smartphone sales, more than each of those. In Q2 2013, Sony and LG have outsold Nokia. Nokia's sales in China have collapsed and have been leapfrogged by others, falling to #10 from #3 a year ago. That is not progress. Additionally, ZTE and Huawei's growth isn't from China, but from Europe, North America and South America, places where Nokia has also weakened.

 

[kharma45]

I mean, Nokia wasn't selling smartphones at fantastically large numbers, but it's not like 7.4 million is utterly atrocious either. Sure, it's not LG's 12.1 million, but it's not like going Android was a sure bet either, seeing as HTC is not doing particularly well despite the HTC One being well liked.

For all we know Nokia could've put out the most bastardised version of Android ever with the most atrocious skin and everyone would still be complaining.

 

[tino]

Let's just put it this way, if I could say Nokia sells more smartphones than Sony, HTC, LG, and Motorola, while still selling significantly lower than the manufacturers that are gaining rapidly in China, less people here would think Nokia going Windows Phone was the death knell of the company.

See WTFBBQ's list. There are 5 companies that were basically selling zero smartphones 3 years ago when Elop took over Nokia have now outselling Nokia in smartphones because they picked the right mobile OS.

This list doesn't include Xiaomi. I am sure Xiaomi will outsell Nokia/MS next year.

 

[markot]

China doesnt matter too.

Apple is just screwing around http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=669173

 

[Tenacious-V]

How are you even supposed to touch some of those tiny icons? If those were links in mobile Chrome the magnifier would pop up so you could actually choose, lol.

Why does he have Mail/Phone/IE/Messages more than once?

 

[kharma45]

Why does he have Mail/Phone/IE/Messages more than once?

Because it's fake

 

[videogamer]

Let's just put it this way, if I could say Nokia sells more smartphones than Sony, HTC, LG, and Motorola, while still selling significantly lower than the manufacturers that are gaining rapidly in China, less people here would think Nokia going Windows Phone was the death knell of the company.

But you wouldn't be able say that (unless you wanted to lie) because LG and Sony both sell more than Nokia.

 

[kehs]

Where Nokia Went Wrong - The New Yorker

 

[numble]

Quite different markets though, if anything those markets are "traditional" phone manufacturers like Sony, HTC, and Motorola failed to capture for some reason. If anything, people could argue Nokia made the wrong move trying to go after the NA market instead of focusing on other markets. In the tech space that people normally discuss here and on tech sites, those names really don't appear often.

To say that they are different markets is to forget that Nokia used to be dominant in China smartphone sales:

Q1 2011 is when Nokia said they would start making Windows Phone.

 

[juliushandle]

Where Nokia Went Wrong - The New Yorker

article is very incomplete. Nokia went wrong when they failed to adapt to consumer trends. They lost the US market not to iPhone/Android but back in the day against the original Motorola Razr flip phone. Nokia refused to make a flip phone for the longest time. Carriers then stopped carrying their high end phones and Nokia decided to sell them unsubsidized and failed miserably at it. Nokia's been trying to claw themselves back ever since.

 

[MCD]

So what's gonna happen to Nokia stores all over the world? Will they change them to MS Stores?

 

[maeh2k]

I think the three-row design can look quite a bit better than that.

I'd probably use one column of medium-size tiles and one column of mostly wide tiles. No small tiles.

Without small tiles it will immediately look a lot cleaner and simpler and there's a lot of room for wide live tiles.

 

[muddream]

The Windows tiles and icon design language is a lot less confused than iOS7 and obviously Android garbage. Strange times...Microsoft's making the clean design and Apple is dominating the software library.