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"Microsoft has tried the first path and it did not work at all. We believe we have a meaningful subscription service." - Jim Ryan

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Sony Interactive Entertainment/PlayStation President & CEO Jim Ryan On Gamepass: "I can say with a very high degree of certainty that Microsoft has tried the first path and it did not work at all. That has driven them to make the large acquisition. I talked to all the publishers, and they unanimously do not like Game Pass because it is value destructive, not only on an individual title-basis, but also or an industry level. The recent number of subscribers that Microsoft announced on January was 25 Million. I am sure everyone has their own views on this, but I personally was expecting a larger number given all the money they have spent. We have close to 50 Million PlayStation Plus subscribers. We believe we have a meaningful subscription service."



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More into it

"We will do what we are doing right now, which is to become less reliant on 3rd Party games and 3rd Party royalties, and to make more 1st Party games. If we double our share of 1st Party games, which are more profitable than the 3rd Party royalty stream, it will bring down our reliance on 3rd Party games." "That is the single biggest thing, and one of the main reasons why we are embarking on M&A. I would like to point out that we are also growing our existing studios, increasing capabilities and their ability to output in various areas including live services. I feel like this part deserves a lot more attention than it currently gets. Large M&A gets all the headlines, but there is a lot going on, and growing your studios organically successfully is a smart thing to do."



"It would be naive for us to assume that all 10 will be massive successes so that is not a necessary condition for us to double first party revenues. That is certainly not what we're assuming. Clearly, the distinction between a hit and not a hit is not a binary one. And don't forget that as we do this, we will continue to publish the games that have served us so well over the years. These 3rd person, graphically beautiful narrative rich games will continue to be the bedrock of our first party publishing business.""We will continue to make 3rd person games like we always have, and we expect those to have slightly greater sales and profitability, reflecting our confidence in the long-term installed base of PS5, as well as the fact that those games will make their way to PC. So, we think that the pie from those games will grow, but that growth will be incremental in nature. We think the live service games will build on that foundation and take us to another level."



"We know Activision extremely well. They are probably one of our principal partners. In terms of deployment of Sony's capital, when you look at $69 Billion dollars for Activision compared to $3.6 Billion dollars for Bungie, we believe that Bungie can give us way more than a $69 Billion acquisition of Activision. And that's before considering the relative value of that particular transaction."



"We're approaching metaverse conversations through 2 lenses. First is as a platform holder. We had something called PlayStation Home for the PS3 and that was a very early manifestation of a platform metaverse. It was probably 10-15 years ahead of its time.""The second is from the studio perspective. We have a couple of projects underway that are very exciting for us, in terms of creating some sort of game-type metaverse which can possibly have collaboration with other parts of Sony. Sony's entertainment assets have huge potential in the metaverse area. As for VR2, we see it as having a role down the road, more in the mid-term."



Ok, so apparently this part was actually unredacted before. I guess some people are only picking up on it now because they're going through all of the documents after the leak?

https://www.ign.com/articles/sony-b...s-believe-xbox-game-pass-is-value-destructive

"During his pre-recorded testimony for an evidentiary hearing between the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Microsoft, Jim Ryan claimed publishers do not like Microsoft's video game subscription service because it is "value destructive".

"I talked to all the publishers, and they unanimously do not like Game Pass because it is value destructive," Ryan said during his testimony.

Just before that, Ryan claimed Game Pass is unprofitable for Microsoft. "The Game Pass business model appears to have some challenges, and Microsoft appears to be losing a lot of money on it," Ryan said."
 
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And yet Sony raise prices on PSN without much more value and PS games are not even Day 1 on the subscription. Yeah, no. Sorry Jimmy.

Here is an idea though Jimmy, when are you going to have an exciting 1st party showcase to show me your "PSN Value" instead? The Last showcase was riddled with nonsense and not a Naughty Dog or Sony Sants Monica game in sight.

Cause right now a ton of GAAS titles with CG trailers is not value.
 
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Del_X

Member
It doesn’t work for them because they want more people inside the PS+ and hardware walled garden.

They’re absolutely subsidizing these “free game” and $50 discounts with PS+ price gouging.

Edit: this dude is seriously comparing PS+ numbers to game pass when the latter was not, in name, required to play online on console while the former was…
 
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And yet Sony raise prices on PSN without much more value and PS games are not even Day 1 on the subscription. Yeah, no. Sorry Jimmy.

Price will go up at one point. The only reason Microsoft doesn't do it aggressively is bc they need good pr, but they will eventually follow like they followed in raising prices for games and consoles. They just don't want to be the first and play hide and seek, but they aren't gamers champions and companies aren't our friends
 
Price will go up at one point. The only reason Microsoft doesn't do it aggressively is bc they need good pr, but they will eventually follow like they followed in raising prices for games and consoles. They just don't want to be the first and play hide and seek, but they aren't gamers champions and companies aren't our friends
I could see Game Pass go up to $20 in the near future. PS+ price gouge right now and the "value" they provide is currently not worthy. And yes what you say is true, none of these companies truly care.

But the point still stands, Sony is now arragont and getting greedy and because they are the market leader they do what they want. Eventually it will bite them back in the ass and the repeat of the PS3 era of Sony will happen. That is going to be very unfortunate. I miss the PS4 team, much nicer folks. Jim Ryan is awful imo.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
It's ok. Diablo, Starcraft, CoD are going to eventually get on Game Pass and add plenty far more value than ever before to Game Pass and Xbox as a whole. The deal.ks on the verge of closing up.

PS+ happens to have more games I care about, honestly. Glad you're enjoying your time with these games. PS+ monthly games are still very solid + Extra. Xbox Gold is a joke at this point. Getting many good AAA games via both basic PS+ and Extra. Also great when you have kids with all the good family-friendly selection you have = no need to spend on bullshot games.

Overall, the PS+ Extra has 100% better games than GamePass yet cheaper and including online gaming + 3 monthly games.
 
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Tsaki

Member
"That has driven them to make the large acquisition"
Game Pass has been behind Microsoft's own goals for more than a year now and Phil Spencer even said that if it doesn't take off, exiting the gaming business is a real possibility. The whole division hinging primarily on subs instead of game making. No wonder they need $80B bailouts by the Azure + Office division.
 
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yeah and hopefully they'll bring some 100s of millions subscribers with them soon, for this whole pipedream to work.
not much left to 2027.
Yes, Microsoft will close down Xbox after not meeting a certain subscription number by the year 2027 and after finally closing the deal on Activision Blizzard in the year 2023 which is only 4 years prior to Xbox closing shop in 2027. You got it sir. /s
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Making an OP with a Zuby_Tech tweet is quite the thing indeed.

Sony Interactive Entertainment/PlayStation President & CEO Jim Ryan On Gamepass: "I can say with a very high degree of certainty that Microsoft has tried the first path and it did not work at all. That has driven them to make the large acquisition. I talked to all the publishers, and they unanimously do not like Game Pass because it is value destructive, not only on an individual title-basis, but also or an industry level. The recent number of subscribers that Microsoft announced on January was 25 Million. I am sure everyone has their own views on this, but I personally was expecting a larger number given all the money they have spent. We have close to 50 Million PlayStation Plus subscribers. We believe we have a meaningful subscription service."

Aside from the fact that multiple publishers have happily put their games on GamePass over the years, his comparison of all tiers of PS Plus vs GamePass alone (no Gold added) is extremely flawed.

Not to mention we have tons and tons of internal Microsoft documents where the main motivations for the Activision deal are cited and most of it has to do with Mobile.

Ryan’s painted a rosy picture of his own strategy and downplayed the competition’s strategy to his investors and people are swallowing it as gospel 😀
 
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Kilau

Member
Tell us how. I think Tinykin is the only game I played in 3 years that was day one. Xbox first party is pish.
That's personal preference for first party games, if Sony included day one they could have an argument but even with misses like Redfall you have the Forza Horizon series, Age of Empires, FlightSim, Starfield (fight me) and a greater variety of 3rd party games. Plus the PC side and just the schedule is easy to follow.
 

Krieger

Member
Yes, Microsoft will close down Xbox after not meeting a certain subscription number by the year 2027 and after finally closing the deal on Activision Blizzard in the year 2023 which is only 4 years prior to Xbox closing shop in 2027. You got it sir. /s
Microsoft aquired Nokia for more than $7 billion and sold them off for a fraction 3 years later, so yes, Microsoft is dumb enough to spend $70 billion and then kill off their Xbox divison by 2027 if they don't get 100+ million Gamepass users.
 
PS+ happens to have more games I care about, honestly. Glad you're enjoying your time with these games. PS+ monthly games are still very solid + Extra. Xbox Gold is a joke at this point. Getting many good AAA games via both basic PS+ and Extra. Also great when you have kids with all the good family-friendly selection you have = no need to spend on bullshot games.

Overall, the PS+ Extra has 100% better games than GamePass yet cheaper and including online gaming + 3 monthly games.
Game Pass Core is $9.99 and includes network/online play my friend on Xbox. So not sure what you mean by PS+ Extra being cheaper? PS+ Extra is $14.99 a month. Unless I am misunderstanding something here, do tell me. There is also Game Pass Ultimate for $15.99, or $16.99, I don't remember the exact price but it gives you PC Game Pass and EA Play and online multiplayer. I am sorry, that is too much of a good value friend.

Better or worse games is subjective. My main platform is PS5 but only because I don't like the Xbox achievement system and I am a trophy hunter whore and of course the PS5 "exclusives" that get released later on PC anyways, but i want to play them now and too lazy to wait.

Xbox is the best value for any gamer right now in existence. Its the cheapest entry and most consumer friendly. There is no argument there, that is just a fact and that's thanks to Game Pass.
 
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And yet Sony raise prices on PSN without much more value and PS games are not even Day 1 on the subscription. Yeah, no. Sorry Jimmy.

Here is an idea though Jimmy, when are you going to have an exciting 1st party showcase to show me your "PSN Value" instead? The Last showcase was riddled with nonsense and not a Naughty Dog or Sony Sants Monica game in sight.

Cause right now a ton of GAAS titles with CG trailers is not value.

He's talking about value for Sony and Microsoft. Not consumers.
 
I could see Game Pass go up to $20 in the near future. PS+ price gouge right now and the "value" they provide is currently not worthy. And yes what you say is true, none of these companies truly care.

But the point still stands, Sony is now arragont and getting greedy and because they are the market leader they do what they want. Eventually it will bite them back in the ass and the repeat of the PS3 era of Sony will happen. That is going to be very unfortunate. I miss the PS4 team, much nicer folks. Jim Ryan is awful imo.
"Arrogant" and "greedy" don't mean anything in business. "Worth" is a subjective value that is being taken to an objective level and is heavily influenced by our social bubble. Was it worth a year of gamepass without big exclusives? I'm sure that some people will say yes and other will say no.
I think that Microsoft is as arrogant and greedy as anyone else, just look at the subtle menaces towards UK during the trial. They are literally spending billions to be in the position of "spending competitors out of business" just like they said. They have more money than anyone else and they want to make even more money, own even more companies and power. Greed is not only paying 10$ more on a videogame in 2020.
Ryan is just another executive that earns millions, he just doesn't play the part of the guy that cares about your feelings. We shouldn't listen or cheer to them.
 
Microsoft aquired Nokia for more than $7 billion and sold them off for a fraction 3 years later, so yes, Microsoft is dumb enough to spend $70 billion and then kill off their Xbox divison by 2027 if they don't get 100+ million Gamepass users.
Yes, let's compare Microsoft from those ancient days, especially when the market was different. And yes, let's compare a mobile phone company purchase for 7 Billion vs 80 billion for a game company in the year 2023. Solid apples to oranges comparison. Keep on trucking you are doing good Lil Timmy. 👍
 
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Unknown?

Member
It absolutely is. Plenty of incredible games for Day 1 with subscription including all first party and even some solid 3rd party titles like Lies of P.
Everyone praises day 1 but it's not like they have had a ton of releases this gen anyway.

There's no denying it will be a great value but everything he said is true, it did not work for them and is actually hurting them more.
 
Game Pass Core is $9.99 and includes network/online play my friend on Xbox. So not sure what you mean by PS+ Extra being cheaper? PS+ Extra is $14.99 a month. Unless I am misunderstanding something here, do tell me. There is also Game Pass Ultimate for $15.99, or $16.99, I don't remember the exact price but it gives you PC Game Pass and EA Play and online multiplayer. I am sorry, that is too much of a good value friend.

Better or worse games is subjective. My main platform is PS5 but only because I don't like the Xbox achievement system and I am a trophy hunter whore and of course the PS5 "exclusives" that get released later on PC anyways, but i want to play them now and too lazy to wait.

Xbox is the best value for any gamer right now in existence. Its the cheapest entry and most consumer friendly. There is no argument there, that is just a fact and that's thanks to Game Pass.

They also have a different core model. GamePass is like Netflix and opted for a monthly first model, Plus is like Amazon Prime and push towards yearly subscriptions.
Different models and strategies so comapring 1:1 is useless
 

Dr. Wilkinson

Gold Member
I think Game Pass is wonderful, as a consumer. I love the try before you buy aspect, and I try so many games that I normally would never ever pay for without having had a chance to play first. I’m sure I’m not alone.

I don’t care about the business, I’m a customer. No one else should either, unless you are financially dependent on Microsoft. Let them figure out the business so you (we) can enjoy the games and the services they provide.
 
He's talking about value for Sony and Microsoft. Not consumers.
Do you care about the companies value more than your consumer rights/values? These companies are not your friends. But one of them is a lot more consumer friendly than other. Pick your poison. I personally don't care if it devalues or values the company more. I care about how subscribeling to a services benefits me, not anyone else.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Game Pass Core is $9.99 and includes network/online play my friend on Xbox. So not sure what you mean by PS+ Extra being cheaper? PS+ Extra is $14.99 a month. Unless I am misunderstanding something here, do tell me. There is also Game Pass Ultimate for $15.99, or $16.99, I don't remember the exact price but it gives you PC Game Pass and EA Play and online multiplayer. I am sorry, that is too much of a good value friend.

Better or worse games is subjective. My main platform is PS5 but only because I don't like the Xbox achievement system and I am a trophy hunter whore and of course the PS5 "exclusives" that get released later on PC anyways, but i want to play them now and too lazy to wait.

Xbox is the best value for any gamer right now in existence. Its the cheapest entry and most consumer friendly. There is no argument there, that is just a fact and that's thanks to Game Pass.

Extra for 1 year is cheaper, also GamePass Core has has only 25 fucking games. PS+ Extra is the real deal: $135.

Take a moment and check the list of games on PS+ Extra. The service, especially for low spenders, screams with bangers and GOTY contenders and there are many wonderful 1st party games there as well.

But as you said, better or worse games is subjective.
 
I think Game Pass is wonderful, as a consumer. I love the try before you buy aspect, and I try so many games that I normally would never ever pay for without having had a chance to play first. I’m sure I’m not alone.

I don’t care about the business, I’m a customer. No one else should either, unless you are financially dependent on Microsoft. Let them figure out the business so you (we) can enjoy the games and the services they provide.
5qY2ZgH.gif
 
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SenkiDala

Member
It absolutely is. Plenty of incredible games for Day 1 with subscription including all first party and even some solid 3rd party titles like Lies of P.
Like "Like a Dragon" games, more and more Atlus games (P3/4/5 and soon Tactica and the remake of P3)... This Jim guy should know they have 50M subs because there are 170M PS4/5 out there. There's like what ? 80M of Xbox ? Normal they "just" have 25M subs.

In fact it is better because since before this month, you just needed Xbox Live to play online, not GPU (or GP Core), so all those GPU subs were from the people who subbed for the service GP, not for the online only. While on the 50M of PS+ subbers I guess at least half of the subs are from people who just buy the "cheapest" PS+, just to play online. At least it is what I see around me.
 
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