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Microsoft Plays Up 'PS3 Delay'
- Thread starter Spider_Jerusalem
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For both sides of this ongoing debate I have one question....
What the hell will prove that one console is "visually" superior to the other?
Like in the case of this generation you had AA issues which prevent many PS2 titles from looking as smooth as their Xbox brethren... however AA probably will not be an issue next gen... so what will you then argue about?
What the hell will prove that one console is "visually" superior to the other?
Like in the case of this generation you had AA issues which prevent many PS2 titles from looking as smooth as their Xbox brethren... however AA probably will not be an issue next gen... so what will you then argue about?
Maleficent
Member
^^Toy Story graphics are a coming. Believe the hype. :lol
If they do indeed launch in Spring what will they launch with? That's my big question and MS has a point that it will most likely be delayed and they are basing it on the fact that we haven't really seen enough to be confident in a Spring launch. Still it's not as if it matters cause it doesn't seem like there will be enough 360 units for them to build up a substantial lead given the numbers we've been hearing. Unless MS keeps the ball rolling Sony could easily catch up in a year after launch.
MS' rushed launch and weak showings don't exactly inspire my confidence either. They can get their shots in because Sony's been quiet but that could backfire bigtime. I think Sony has been waiting and getting the titles ready to showcase the power, getting the presentations polished, and getting the hype machine tuned to really have the PS3 show up the 360. Sony has just been toying with them so far and could drop a bomb on them at anytime and if they're smart it'll be before the 360 launch.
MS' rushed launch and weak showings don't exactly inspire my confidence either. They can get their shots in because Sony's been quiet but that could backfire bigtime. I think Sony has been waiting and getting the titles ready to showcase the power, getting the presentations polished, and getting the hype machine tuned to really have the PS3 show up the 360. Sony has just been toying with them so far and could drop a bomb on them at anytime and if they're smart it'll be before the 360 launch.
So you're comparing tech demos to real games? Thanks for showing me your intellect. Wake me up when we see actual PS3 games running on finished hardware. If you think that what Kojima-san showed you was a game, then you're either very stupid or very, very intellectually dishonest.SolidSnakex said:
The real-time argument means nothing. Let's see how a PS3 game throwing around physics and A.I. on final hardware compares to an Xbox 360 game developed on final hardware.
DarienA said:
What's funny is, most of the posters on GAF, are not technically "savvy" to say the least. They don't understand bus widths, bits, bytes, bandwidth, CPU cycles, op-codes, RAM, ROM, blah blah blah, but they all claim to be experts on "what is or isn't more powerful than <insert console here>".
SolidSnakex
Member
Arsynic said:
So what was it then? They just decided to f'ck around a year of development time on a tech demo?
D3VI0US said:
I forget which article it was but I think it was spot on when they said Sony is being quiet about PS3 so they don't kill PS2 and PSP for Christmas. They are walking a very fine line right now between trying to sell current-gen / portable stuff and hype up PS3.
360 is going to sellout this christmas regardless of what Sony does so they are better off staying quiet about PS3 and letting PS2 and PSP have a decent Christmas.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
More than likely - framerates. If there's a difference, it will be evident in multiplatform titles that use Renderware or U3 engine.DarienA said:
I wouldn't write off AA as a difference yet either. Lately, there's been some evidence that certain X360 titles don't have any AA enabled, for whatever reason. We also know that using HDR with AA on PS3 would probably only be possible with supersampled AA, which would bring performance issues, so it most likely won't be used.
Diminishing returns will probably make 360 & PS3 more comparable visually than their respective chipsets will have a hand in. I expect PS3's processing advantage to be evident in other areas really, if at all. Stuff like advanced AI or physics engines moreso, visuals look to be plateauing... sort of like sound in gaming has already basically.
Whether something is visually superior is subjective. On the other hand technical superiority is a bit more clear cut.DarienA said:
For example, in my opinion, MGS4 is more impressive than Gears of War visually. But technically, Gears of War is more impressive because of the lighting and hi-res textures...plus Gears is running with all gears turning (no pun intended) while MGS4 is just a graphics engine.
SolidSnakex said:
Game assets running realtime. Hand-modeled animations that achieve realism that no AI routine ever could. Dramatic chin cam shots that would make the game unplayable.
Seriously, there is no doubt in my mind that MGS4 is going to be a graphical and cinematic masterpiece, but was that demo indicative of gameplay on the PS3? Who fucking knows?
Shit, it wasn't playable was it? I could see if it was like the Halo 2 demo where someone from the company was actually playing a mocked up level. But it was just a tech demo. It's like those free Nvidia demos you get with your graphics cards. You can move the camera, change the lighting, etc, etc. But you're not playing anything. There's no game code whatsoever.SolidSnakex said:
If Kojima-san actually had a real game engine, he would have jumped to show it. But all they had was a very impressive graphics engine demo with a few Sony blow-jobs at the end.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
What I want to know is if there is any truth to the rumors that developers are complaining about the higher costs of development for PS3? Perhaps those developers will make money off of 360 that could then help offset some of the costs for PS3 development. Plus, I think many developers will make a ton of money off of PS2 games and will probably include that fact in their decisions for the next-gen. As much as I am excited about 360, I am really interested to see what Sony does. And I could care less if it happens in 2006 or 2007.
SolidSnakex
Member
urk said:
While the camera isn't going to be that close to Snake, if its anything like the previous games (and there's no reason to believe it won't be) they don't switch engines for cutscenes. Everything looks the same. Once again, this is why people confused the entire MGS2 trailer as being a FMV sequence even though most of it was gameplay.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Great Visuals are a given with the GPUs these platforms are sporting. I believe Animation and fluidity (framerate) needs its time to shine this time around. I'm tired of herky jerky movement and looping mocaps.
DenogginizerOS said:
I think Sony (and to some extent Microsoft) is putting some pressure on developers to make sure that they make some use of the power of Next Gen machines, which is probably the reason for some developers grumbling... but over time these requirements will probably be quietly forgotten.
SolidSnakex
Member
Arsynic said:
Yah because there's no better way to hype your high profile game than to show it in a very early incomplete gameplay form, right?
DenogginizerOS said:
I've no doubt it's costly, but then I think the greatest costs will likely come from areas common to all the systems next-gen e.g. asset production etc.
You'd think publishers would put there money where their mouths are (and lets remember, it is the publishers that decide these things) - a look at the Japanese development list offered by Sony at PS3 showcases many small and medium sized publishers/developers with small/medium games/franchises. We could debate what that tells us, but for now at least it doesn't seem they are being put off by development for the platform.
As far as I know, the only source of these rumours is a comment from an unnamed source. A quote previously attributed to this issue from Koei's president subsequently emerged as relating to the cost for the consumer, not development cost, IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised to see more explicit concerns aired more openly by devs going forward, but we hear this at the start of every new generation (or at least we did with the last), so..
SolidSnakex
Member
longdi said:
Depends on the cutscenes since some run at 60fps also, although there are only a few of those but you can tell right away when it happens.
longdi said:
They're called DC fans.
They said there was no way that was its real game engine. Sort of like a certain person is doing now.Guy LeDouche
Banned
what blew me away is MGS4 is on a beta kit. Compare that to MS's beta kit stuff.Arsynic said:
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Guy LeDouche said:
Metal Gear Solid 4 was done on a 7800. That is the RSXs little brother. Gears of War was done on an X800 until recently. You could not emulate the Xenos because the technology is different than every card in existance thus far.
PS3 beta kits are 75% of final hardware and impressive PS3 demos were built on beta kits. Xbox 360 games were built on alpha kits and ported to beta kits which doesn't necessarily guarantee a visual leap.Guy LeDouche said:
If you compare PS3 demos to Gears of War which didn't use alpha kits, but used dual 6800 ultras in SLi (comparable to PS3 beta kits), it's equal in quality. Most Xbox 360 launch games were started on Radeon X800's which don't compare to dual 6800's in SLI.
Razoric said:
Yeah well whoever wrote that article is an idiot. How will Sony be hurting PS2 and PSP sales by talking about PS3? A product that's not yet released has little chance to hurt the sales of products that are on the market and are targeting a different group of consumers.
People in the market for a console this late in the generation are obviously not the early adopter crowd that will be buying PS3 at launch but rather the budget consumers who will be buying older consoles for the value. I doubt anyone in the market for a most likely $99 or even $150 PS2 this fall will postpone their purchase and wait for the upwards of $400 PS3 coming out sometime next year in Spring but most likely later. Many PS2 owners will be happy spending their cash on PS2 games and or PS3 reservations.
People who are buying PSP are buying a handheld not a console, it's completely different market for the most part. Not to mention showing PS3 could probably help PSP sales. They get people who are waiting for PS3 to spend their money on their portable. They could actually use this to their advantage if they show connectivity features with the PS3 to make it even more desirable. Still it's stupid to assume one will hurt the other cause there's little factual basis for that assumption.
I know that the 360 will sell out this fall but it's up to Sony to convince PS2 owners and other people on the fence to wait. Silence doesn't do that, hype and flashy demos and actual information does. The two consoles are in competition and they're in competition for the same market. If Sony doesn't get the PS3 out there and get the consumers attention some may not know when it's coming and decide to go with the 360 cause they don't want to wait. However if Sony gives us the where, what, and when of the PS3 and make it sound like it's worth the wait then people will wait.
MS has a strong launch, granted no killer apps, but it's broad in it's appeal. They're also following it up with a steady stream of titles with many yet to be announced and unveiled but they're being developed as we speak by 1st and 3rd party alike. They also have a strong online strategy, first mover advantage, and deep pockets that will market the hell out of it. It would be in Sony's best interest to minimize those advantages by proving that they have a more powerful console, familiar killer titles and series in development or exclusive, a competent comprable and possibly free online strategy, and it's coming soon. Exposure and media coverage is a good thing, they want people to know about it and to want it. I don't see how that isn't in their best interests and no article written by some ignorant chump is going to convince me otherwise.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
They used the lower resolution to get some vertical antialiasing for the cutscenes. Internally, it's rendered at the same resolution. MGS3 has the same framerate during the cutscenes as it has during the game. Also, MGS4 trailer, being a cutscene, was already running at 60FPS. I doubt they'll go higher than that for gameplaylongdi said:
Doom_Bringer
Banned
fun thread 
Excelion said:four months ago.
Ubi won't be releasing anything for Japanese launch which is what I assume Sony is talking about when they say Spring. Still releasing in Spring in Japan presents little to no advantage to Sony as that territory pretty much belongs to them anyways. It's more dangerous to let 360 get strong leads in NA and EU. When they launch in Japan is almost a non factor as it will be sometime in 2006 and it will blow by the 360 with ease. However 360 is sure to gain ground lots of ground in NA and be a GC sized success/failure in Japan no matter when Sony launches. Missing Holiday 06 in NA is a huge mistake, and missing it in EU is a substantial one as well as I think that territory has the most swing potential. If Ubi is on the money then they won't miss either but a lot can change in 4 months.
D3VI0US said:
Sony aren't even going to risk ANY slowdown in PS2/PSP sales. They'd shoot themselves in the foot, and also their partners' who still have many PS2/PSP games to come.
PSP at $250 is a significant investment, and that money could go a long way toward a PS3 if the consumer so desired.
Higher awareness of PS3 would and will affect consumer behaviour. Only a couple of weeks ago, I saw in an Irish newspaper a rather prominent headline: "PS3 will be worth the wait". The article was about the recent launch of PSP, and how you'd be better off waiting for a PS3 (despite how nice the PSP is). So yes, PS3's profile does have an impact. That's exactly the kind of mixed message Sony does not want when they're simultaneously spending a crapload of money on advertising trying to sell PSP. That's exactly what they're trying to avoid by tempering PS3's current profile.
Regarding the current PS2 market - although late adopters aren't the type to jump on new hardware bandwagons early, people also don't like to think they're buying something that will be superceded soon. People going in to buy a PS2 now don't need to know PS3 is just around the corner. It would not instill confidence, and in a worst case could open their eyes to general next generation offerings, and the imminent arrival of a competing console (and they may think "what the heck, I'll just get this now").
gamergirly
Member
Can you just give me a definitive answer: Which one is more powerful, 360 or PS3? That's all we need to know :lol
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It was. They played it off the devkit, and could pause it and move the camera around, zoom into stuff etc.Dr_Cogent said:
SolidSnakex
Member
Dr_Cogent said:
Yah by Kojima several times, which is why they showed off a demo where they'd pause it at points and move the camera around to prove it was real time.
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