Support NeoGAF

[Chaplain]

I do see some upsides, depending on their strategy. It's a powerful way to establish a subscription model, by preventing consoles based on accounts that don't pay up from working. Second, it allows for enhanced live features, like a netflix-like games service, and by guaranteeing that all users pay the sub, they get additional revenue they can use to subsidize content. Imagine if games launch at 60 on the PS4 and 45 on the Xbox?

I still hate it though.

I agree with what you said.

I would like to add a third point to your perspective. Since this is probably the last physical system we will be buying, I see "always online" as a way to get consumers use to being always online for one of the main future applications that is coming in the next few years. What is that? At some point the 720 will become the MS 1080. How? Part of the Graphics and Audio processing will be done on the server side in combination with the 720. Consumers will probably just pay extra $ for Live every month to upgrade to their new console (instead of having to buy one).

 

[Yawnier]

SCR, Final Round, CEO, UFGT. Capcom games are on 360 all the other games on PS3.

For example the most recent one (I forget the name but it was just this past weekend, the one held in Atlanta?) was run on 360s with I think the exception of Tekken being run on PS3s.

TY for the info guys. Had no idea that many tourneys had the X360 as their main console.

nearing 1 million views in <10 hours. Dayum..

I seriously didn't think this whole thing at first was going to gain as much as attention as it is getting right now.

 

[gutterboy44]

The worst scenario is that now everyone has to share the launch day woes for major titles. I could be playing my "indie/obscure/year old" single player game and I would be denied access to it the first few nights a new COD or Halo drops that could potentially overload XBL. What happens durning the holidays when sales of games and consoles are up across the board? I unfortunately participated in both the D3 and Sim City launch windows and it was awful, but at the end of the day I just played another game on my PC. If an AAA game brings the system to its knees, you are shit out of luck no matter what game you are trying to play.

 

[jtb]

Of course, but the implication is that it's 50/50 and that we shouldn't be expecting it (or having a huge thread about it). Everyone knows that this is not confirmed, but what other reason would someone have to 'remind' everyone that it's a 'rumor' other than to make it seem less likely to happen?

I only quote 'rumor' because not all rumors are created equally, which is sort of the entire point. We know it's a rumor, we also know that it's coming just as well as the next Xbox is coming at this point. It would be like popping into a Durango thread and reminding everyone that MS hasn't confirmed that it exists yet and that it's just a rumor.

I mean, if you're going to call this "pure speculation" you might as well have just said that we're overreacting because the Xbox may not even exist.

That's not the implication at all. The implication is that there's a chance (maybe not 50%, but higher than the probability of the next Xbox not existing) that it's not always-online. That's the jump in logic I disagree with. Again, I'm saying it's a rumor and that it's a very likely rumor, which is why it's unfair to just paint everyone who says "it's a rumor" as thinking that's it's not going to happen.

(plus, for all we know, they could be frantically changing their strategy in Redmond as we speak...)

Quote people who have explicitly ignored the distinction. People are treating at as very likely based on what has happened, not as officially confirmed. That's reasonable given the sources.

I'd like to compile a list of the people who think that this is a "silly rumor" or "pure speculation" like we're all just latching onto some random forum post or something someone's uncle said.

Then, after Microsoft announces it, compare that list to the people who defend it.

That was the original post our conversation was based off of. I'm saying that just because I think it's speculation does not mean I don't think it's going to happen. What the evidence says and what we think is going to happen are two very different things.

 

[Reiko]

Who is he?

A credible insider.

 

[Basketball]

waiting for the the official reveal for the true onslaught

 

[ironcreed]

Many have been worried about Microsoft divorcing the core market more and more, but with the way things are looking, gamers are coming out in droves to divorce them first. Such delicious irony.

 

[Jake Tower]

The worst scenario is that now everyone has to share the launch day woes for major titles. I could be playing my single player game and I would be denied access to it the first few nights a new COD or Halo drops that could potentially overload XBL. What happens durning the holidays when sales of games and consoles are up across the board? I unfortunately participated in both the D3 and Sim City launch windows and it was awful, but at the end of the day I just played another game on my PC. If an AAA game brings the system to its knees, you are shit out of luck no matter what game you are trying to play.

Yeah, didn't it used to be an annual thing at Christmas for XBL to go down due to the increased activity?

 

[Boss Man]

I was just confused as to which part you were referring to since I quoted both posts, that's all.

as to your quesiton, well, yes and no. Speculation that's based on speculation is pretty pointless, imo. Given most of sports journalism is just a giant soap opera (a very enjoyable giant soap opera, but a giant soap opera nonetheless) that is constantly regurgitating the same talking points, then... yeah. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to stick to the facts. I mean, look at Sportscenter or Skip Bayless. All they do is speculate based on speculation on "what is X player thinking" and all this stuff which is of course completely unprovable and complete bullshit. Skip is all about spinning baseless speculation on a player's mental state to make Tebow look good and Lebron look bad, etc. etc. They dissect every little comment to fit it into a narrative that'll sell papers, or get hits, or viewers, etc. and that's disingenuous and I dislike that, yeah.

I think it's fine to speculate and label it as such. It's fine to make predictions. It's fine to say "oh, if Microsoft has an always-online console... then yeah, that's a big problem." But you gotta include the "if" because... that's all it is at this point. It's not fact. It's speculation. Maybe likely speculation, maybe unlikely speculation. But there's a difference between speculation and fact, and I don't like it when anyone&#8212;Sports journalists or GAF posters&#8212;ignores that distinction.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just trying to be exact in some sort of devil's advocate way, but let me try to demonstrate why I feel like what you're arguing is not really doing anything but being difficult:

Good thing I'm not foolish. But "always-online" is easily modified, we have no idea what they're doing with the console (if there is one). It's way too early (too early for what? you mean if there's a new console and if it's releasing this year?) to be making any kind of judgments or predictions when we don't know anything, we don't know how it works, we don't know what it's for, we don't even know any (if there are any... heh) potential benefits.

If it's true, then these reactions were inevitable. If it's not, then they don't matter (don't matter for what? you mean the rumored console that may not exist?). People give a shit about functionality (which includes always online!), about software (which might have to do with always online!), but when it comes to voting with their wallet? the only thing Microsoft cares and will listen to?

No. No one gives a shit about some idiot on Twitter.

If the next Xbox is always online, then it's always online and the headlines don't matter because they're inevitable. If it's not, then all these news outlets will just have egg on their face when Microsoft does their media blitz for the announcement (if there is an announcement). Microsoft stand to lose nothing in this position.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Late reply, but I'll chip in anyway.


The vast majority, if not all of them, actually. At least insofar as it would be required to run a tournament without a hitch.

Final Round, the 2nd biggest annual fighting game tournament in the US, was held this past weekend. I think there were at least 6 streams in some official capacity, and the vast majority (all?) of them were done over 4G hotspots because venue internet at these events is simply that shitty. I should know; I was in charge of one of them.

Quick someone post the disconnect at the Starcraft 2 League Finals.

 

[i-Lo]

The best you can hope for from all of this back lash is that MS backs down and makes some adjustments to their systems. When Edge initially posted some information on this subject I also got my own confirmation that this was what MS was planning. I haven't checked since then, but since so many more people are coming out with this now, I can only assume that they are still planning on always online. Some people willy deny it like they did with the specs until it is smack dab in their face though.

This guy will probably get a slap on the wrist for this.

This sounds like a classic case of leaking the hard-to-swallow info with some ambiguity and no official backing so that in time when the actual announcement is made and is in line with the leak, people are more "receptive".

 

[jtb]

Nobody is ignoring the distinction, and you didnt even address my point about sports, you created a new talking point about sports. You are creating arguments that are not there, most have not claimed it as fact, but it isnt out of the question and has not been dismissed as untrue. Talking about the speculation is perfectly fine and healthy until then, regardless of whether or not you think Skip Bayless is good at his job or not.

The original post I was responding to did ignore it, which is why I made the point in the first place! I think we're clearly in agreement elsewhere (your posts on sports were rather vague so I'm not sure what exactly you expected me to respond to...) so I'm not sure why you keep trying to find places of disagreement with me.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

I just woke up and missed like 50 pages. So, we got a press release? Does MS still not comment on rumors and speculation?

 

[Tagg9]

Now a front page story on IGN.

I really want to be a fly on Orthy's wall...

 

[DigitalOp]

Well, I'll never judge people for being concerned, but I think those concerns are largely unwarranted. Live is a reliable service. I know it, everybody on this forum knows it.

Reliable yes. But not PERFECT. I could only ever accept an always online system if the connection was perfect. But life isn't perfect

What am I saying? Ill never accept an online system. Why? Cus I shouldn't need a damn internet connection just to BOOT UP a damn game!!

What's the defense standing for? I thought we all play games? Why would you accept a system that won't let you play ANY SOFTWARE (single player or not) without an internet connection??

Its completely asinine.

 

[Afrikan]

Haven't seen it posted yet, so... Always Online Adam Orth.

 

[DRE Fei]

Speaking of xbox, what happened to Velocitygirl?

Is she offline?

 

[Reiko]

Got Damn.

 

[ThisWreckage]

What's still confusing is how some developers have no idea about their online plans but some due. It's quite odd and still unexplained.

They're hitching themselves to certain devs. Microsoft is very likely giving these devs massive incentives if they enter a business relationship with them. The developers being left out in the cold either declined or weren't approached.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Boom.

 

[jtb]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just trying to be exact in some sort of devil's advocate way, but let me try to demonstrate why what you're arguing is not really doing anything but being difficult:

I was responding to THAT particular argument on sports and journalism in general.

My argument against you has to do with the fact that you're saying everyone who says its speculation is saying it's not going to happen, which is just blatantly false, especially when the two items are NOT in opposition to one another. You are the one making that argument, not me. You are the one is conflating two things that are clearly not one and the same.

 

[Boss Man]

I was responding to THAT particular argument on sports and journalism in general.

My argument against you has to do with the fact that you're saying everyone who says its speculation is saying it's not going to happen, which is just blatantly false, especially when the two items are NOT in opposition to one another. You are the one making that argument, not me. You are the one is conflating two things that are clearly not one and the same.

Where in that post did I say those two are in opposition to each other?

You said that if it is not a fact - if it's speculation or rumor - then it bothers you when people don't explicitly state it. You don't seem to do that.

 

[2MF]

What's the defense standing for? I thought we all play games? Why would you accept a system that won't let you play ANY SOFTWARE (single player or not) without an internet connection??

Its completely asinine.

I agree. Even phones allow you to play games / launch apps offline.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Yeah, between yesterdays multiple leaks and Orth's excuses there's absolutely no doubt that Microsoft was planning this. The question now is how stupid and stubborn a company can remain until they change their minds.

Don't tell FordGTGuy.

Whether or not they follow through is a separate issue from whether or not they considered it seriously. We can now say, without a doubt, there were/are machinations in place for an always-online box in some form.

 

[Omikaru]

Yeah, between yesterdays multiple leaks and Orth's excuses there's absolutely no doubt that Microsoft was planning this. The question now is how stupid and stubborn a company can remain until they change their minds.

Look at Windows 8 and the backlash running up to and after the launch. There's your answer as to how stupid and stubborn they are.

 

[Spongebob]

And this is why always online gaming is a problem.

 

[sweetvar26]

Ouch!

Also, that Batman gif. by Sunhi is just EPIC!!!

 

[SgtCobra]

Haven't seen it posted yet, so... Always Online Adam Orth.

Holy shit some of these are just brutal :lol

 

[Mxrz]

Am I being paranoid, or is gaf seemingly full of plants/marketers making all sorts of threads to try to spin this? I really don't want to believe people would willingly try to paint this stuff as not being completely rotten, but damn.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Am I being paranoid, or is gaf seemingly full of plants/marketers making all sorts of threads to try to spin this? I really don't want to believe people would willingly try to paint this stuff as not being so completely rotten, but damn.

I'm sure Microsoft reps are in full force to try to defuse this both on and off the clock.

 

[bloodydrake]

pure gold
my favourite is

 

[ThisWreckage]

Am I being paranoid, or is gaf seemingly full of plants/marketers making all sorts of threads to try to spin this? I really don't want to believe people would willingly try to paint this stuff as not being so completely rotten, but damn.

A little both both. Consumers CAN be that stupid to try to justify things. There were many, many people that outright denied that the 360 had red ring issues that were on their fourth Xbox.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Am I being paranoid, or is gaf seemingly full of plants/marketers making all sorts of threads to try to spin this? I really don't want to believe people would willingly try to paint this stuff as not being so completely rotten, but damn.

I know it's hard to believe, but some people are so emotionally invested into particular brands that it can be hard to distinguish between them and actual viral marketeers.

 

[atomsk]

Well, I'll never judge people for being concerned, but I think those concerns are largely unwarranted. Live is a reliable service. I know it, everybody on this forum knows it.

So why do I have this free copy of Undertow?

 

[Liamario]

It's quite sad, that a lot of the posters bitching about this move will buy 720 come launch date. In fact, it's probably good for MS that this comes out now because it's going to die down before launch. People will get used to the idea.

 

[boinx]

Looks like Sony won the console war before it even began

 

[jtb]

Where in that post did I say those two are in opposition to each other?

You said that if it is not a fact - if it's speculation or rumor - then it bothers you when people don't explicitly state it. You don't seem to do that.

you know.... I just typed up a nice reply to this and the original post I took issue with, mercilessly tearing it to shreds, but then I realized... fuck it. Life's too short. You're right, I'm getting hung up on semantics. This is a giant waste of both of our collective times. I don't really give a shit. Victory is yours.

Just know that I ain't defending this shitty policy, that's for sure.

 

[enzo_gt]

They're hitching themselves to certain devs. Microsoft is very likely giving these devs massive incentives if they enter a business relationship with them. The developers being left out in the cold either declined or weren't approached.

Pretty sure the devs they're talking to are ones with Durango dev kits, not just any devs. I don't see why even still they'd discriminate when it comes to the disclosure of stuff like this.

 

[computers putin']

those were terrible analogies in the op, that guy doesn't come off too bright and real douchey.
Always online is a terrible policy and the reasons should be obvious. MS can't guarantee their servers will be up for one, broadband internet still isn't available in alot of small towns in the us (and the ones that do have terribly unreliable services that are unreasonably expensive more often than not), and sometimes people fall on hard times and have to cut out luxuries like the internet for a certain stretch of time. Seems like they would be alienating a good chunk of their consumer base, but I don't doubt microsoft will be able to downplay the always online thing and come up with some insidious marketing plan that all but avoids the issue, and still sell this shit out of this to an ignorant and unsuspecting public.

 

[ironcreed]

It's quite sad, that a lot of the posters bitching about this move will buy 720 come launch date. In fact, it's probably good for MS that this comes out now because it's going to die down before launch. People will get used to the idea.

I sure as hell will not bend over for this shit.

 

[ekim]

I wasn't around the last gen-->current gen transition. Was it* worse back then?

* the console war

 

[Yawnier]

Am I being paranoid, or is gaf seemingly full of plants/marketers making all sorts of threads to try to spin this? I really don't want to believe people would willingly try to paint this stuff as not being completely rotten, but damn.

I remember there was an anonymous confessor in one of Ronito's confessions threads who said (or claimed) that he worked for some video game publisher in the industry as a marketer or plant or something along those lines on GAF.

So, I don't think it is entirely that far-fetched personally, tinfoil hats aside.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

OMG!

 

[BY2K]

Microsoft's E3 Conference sure will be interesting.

 

[Reiko]

I wasn't around the last gen-->current gen transition. Was it* worse back then?

* the console war

No it was never this bad.

MS rumored to make a total anti consumer console is the most batshit idea ever.

 

[ascii42]

I wasn't around the last gen-->current gen transition. Was it* worse back then?

* the console war

I was posting on GameFAQs and Gamespot back then. It was pretty terrible at those places.

 

[shinobi602]

Since this will eventually die down, just wanted to say you guys are amazing. It was an honor to have served you lol.

 

[TheSeks]

I wasn't around the last gen-->current gen transition. Was it* worse back then?

* the console war

What's a 7 year old doing on GAF?

 

[Ghazi]

Since this will eventually die down, just wanted to say you guys are amazing. It was an honor to have served you lol.

Oh it's just getting started.

 

[ekim]

What's a 7 year old doing on GAF?

Wasn't around == wasn't invested in gaming back then. I'm 26