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[mavs]

So then where is the harm in porting Office to iOS with the same TOS restrictions?

Businesses won't buy it. If they're going to make a Home edition they're already going most of the way towards full Office functionality, so they may as well make something that will actually sell.

Ballmer seemed pretty aggro on that stage though. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to use muscle to get in the tablet game. The Business division certainly wouldn't choose exclusivity to RT if they were left to themselves.

 

[Raistlin]

honestly the biggest compelling reason for me to get a RT tablet over an iPad would be Windows Explorer. dat file system. Of course, i would rather get the Windows 8 x86 version though.

The compelling reason to go with it is if you are or plan to be within the Windows ecosystem. While it will take a bit to hammer out, the plans are quite far-reaching. It will end up being a larger, more cohesive end-to-end solution than Apple.







However if you aren't planning to partake, then yes it's hard to justify purchasing an RT over iPad at launch unless Office and the file system are important to you.

 

[numble]

Businesses won't buy it. If they're going to make a Home edition they're already going most of the way towards full Office functionality, so they may as well make something that will actually sell.

I think some businesses would buy it, and there's still a big consumer market.






The list of top-grossing iPad apps seem to always include office apps like iWork apps, QuickOfficePro, DocumentsToGo, etc.

 

[Raistlin]

That's what confuses me about the business argument for both iPad and SurfaceRT. Are these companies going to distribute all their custom software on the App Store and Windows Marketplace? Are they suddenly going to switch all their x86 software over to ARM?

I'd say no for the most part. However, there obviously are some cases where a user doesn't require much beyond Office, email, and a browser. Even in that situation though, Windows RT has a lot of advantages over iPad.

 

[jagowar]

The compelling reason to go with it is if you are or plan to be within the Windows ecosystem. While it will take a bit to hammer out, the plans are quite far-reaching. It will end up being a larger, more cohesive end-to-end solution than Apple.


However if you aren't planning to partake, then yes it's hard to justify purchasing an RT over iPad at launch unless Office and the file system are important to you.

Tom at the verge put up an article that I agree completely with regarding the ms ecosystem and it all finally coming together.... http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/22/3109846/three-screens-and-a-cloud-windows-8-windows-phone-8-xbox

I also think skydrive is going to play a big role going forward.... the way contracts allow apps like skydrive to work is nothing short of amazing (and would expect dropbox/grive to have similar apps) but skydrive will have the best integration. In a few years I can see not needing access to the local file system anymore.

 

[Raistlin]

Tom at the verge put up an article that I agree completely with regarding the ms ecosystem and it all finally coming together.... http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/22/3109846/three-screens-and-a-cloud-windows-8-windows-phone-8-xbox

I also think skydrive is going to play a big role going forward.... the way contracts allow apps like skydrive to work is nothing short of amazing (and would expect dropbox/grive to have similar apps) but skydrive will have the best integration. In a few years I can see not needing access to the local file system anymore.

Oh cool ... I'll read that when I get home. Thx

 

[MercuryLS]

It's kind of a shame that the Full HD screen is reserved for the Pro. iPad has a crazy good Retina display for $500, there's no excuse. Also Tegra 3 is going to be old by the time this launches, isn't Tegra 4 going to be out by then?

 

[maquiladora]

Saw this tweeted by an Apple fan. I laughed.

 

[Raistlin]

It's kind of a shame that the Full HD screen is reserved for the Pro. iPad has a crazy good Retina display for $500, there's no excuse. Also Tegra 3 is going to be old by the time this launches, isn't Tegra 4 going to be out by then?

We don't know it's Tegra 3

Saw this tweeted by an Apple fan. I laughed.

hahahahaha that's pretty good

 

[schwupp]

Saw this tweeted by an Apple fan. I laughed.

kind of true ;-/

 

[clav]

Saw this tweeted by an Apple fan. I laughed.

http://psynixis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/surfaceVsLaptop.png

hahahahaha that's pretty good

kind of true ;-/

You're late.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39049881&postcount=5201

 

[Marty Chinn]

I also think skydrive is going to play a big role going forward.... the way contracts allow apps like skydrive to work is nothing short of amazing (and would expect dropbox/grive to have similar apps) but skydrive will have the best integration. In a few years I can see not needing access to the local file system anymore.

Doesn't that highly depend on the use case though? Cloud storage is going to be very limited amount of storage for the foreseeable future. I think local file system is here to stay for awhile.

 

[Mastgrr]

I fucking knew from the jump MS would most likely price themselves over the iPad. They just have to throw a wrench into everything they do. They cant help it.

It's most likely because they simply can't: Apple has scale, supply-side and design all in favor of pushing down costs substantially. If Apple wanted to, they could even sell the iPad for a lot less and still net a nice profit. That Microsoft would choose to sell it at a loss isn't realistic, especially since one of the reason of getting into the tablet business is that profits lie in selling the devices themselves (Apple nets more per iPad than Microsoft does from a netbook PC). This is Microsoft's first tablet, they don't have peculiar situations like Apple where they got millions of the same tiny digital camera parts lying around in some Chinese warehouse because they reuse the same one in multiple devices (iPhone, iPad, iPod Nano, etc) and take advantage of that to push down costs. This is probably like Zune where it could take a while before Microsoft manages to catch up, yet this time tablets probably won't become obsolete through being replaced with another device like phones did with music players.

 

[Raistlin]

You're late.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39049881&postcount=5201

No, you just have MS marketing.

Doesn't that highly depend on the use case though? Cloud storage is going to be very limited amount of storage for the foreseeable future. I think local file system is here to stay for awhile.

Well yeah, I wouldn't expect people to be putting their entire video collection up there. That's not necessarily the intent.

What MS envisions is stuff like documents, and more importantly app data is all cloud synced. As an example, there will be some sort of app or game you have on your phone, tablet, PC, and or console. From wherever you are running it, all data will be synced. That sort of stuff

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Good to know portrait viewing is possible in Surface (and Win8 in general).

 

[Wazzim]

This thing is very interesting. I was never interested in tablets but Surface is pretty much a cool looking laptop (functionality wise).

 

[Marty Chinn]

Well yeah, I wouldn't expect people to be putting their entire video collection up there. That's not necessarily the intent.

What MS envisions is stuff like documents, and more importantly app data is all cloud synced. As an example, there will be some sort of app or game you have on your phone, tablet, PC, and or console. From wherever you are running it, all data will be synced. That sort of stuff

I'm not even talking video. Any type of say art assets like images, PSD files or large PDFs can add up. Not to mention, business policies of not storing sensitive material on third party servers. I think there's a lot of data that can take up space that is outside the realm of someone's personal media collection.

Edit: Unless you're talking about the consumer space; I was referring to the business space.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Tom at the verge put up an article that I agree completely with regarding the ms ecosystem and it all finally coming together.... http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/22/3...g to end. :( Otherwise, it's looking good.

 

[Mastgrr]

Doesn't that highly depend on the use case though? Cloud storage is going to be very limited amount of storage for the foreseeable future. I think local file system is here to stay for awhile.

Cloud storage means we ness need for space in individual devices, thus less costly hardware, files are accessible across multiple devices and up to sync on all of them, no need for personal backups, i.e. plenty of advantages beyond the basic cost advantage. And to the company's benefit they provide nice subscription fees and lock in users. Apple also use it as a way to compensate storing files without the necessity of a file system.

Ramping up space for cloud storage services is probably cheaper scale-wise for Microsoft, Google and Apple than the pace we're seeing prices per gig pushed down on SSD's put into devices. Wouldn't be surprised if we come to a scenario where it's rare we see devices over a certain amount of gigabytes because they want to force us to get cloud subscriptions.

True that cloud storage basic accounts is abysmally low (less than 10 gig), but I think that could very well change as we sort of get more matured into cloud storage. Though I'd say if there's anyhing that's really holding back truly a good cloud storage right now, it's software integration. It could be better implemented thoroughly throughout operating systems and applications to the point where we don't think about it anymore. When we get there, I don't think people will care much about local storage. Well, though not on PC's that is.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

I think this is a really cool looking device. If the final reviews are good and the price is right I might pick one up.

One really attractive feature it seems like no one is talking about is the ability to run Office. It's not the sexist program in the world, but I use it all the time in my business and personal life.

 

[jagowar]

Doesn't that highly depend on the use case though? Cloud storage is going to be very limited amount of storage for the foreseeable future. I think local file system is here to stay for awhile.

You can buy 100 gigs on skydrive or gdrive for about $50/yr.... In ~5 yrs I expect that to scale up where you will get a 1.0 tb for $50/yr (and 50-100 gigs will be the free plan). I think that kind of space will be enough for most people.

True that cloud storage basic accounts is abysmally low (less than 10 gig), but I think that could very well change as we sort of get more matured into cloud storage. Though I'd say if there's anyhing that's really holding back truly a good cloud storage right now, it's software integration. It could be better implemented thoroughly throughout operating systems and applications to the point where we don't think about it anymore. When we get there, I don't think people will care much about local storage. Well, though not on PC's that is.

I agree that is what has held them back.... until now imo. The way windows 8 handles skydrive is very close to having local storage and expect others to copy this method. When that happens the software will become a non issue.

 

[Marty Chinn]

You can buy 100 gigs on skydrive or gdrive for about $50.... In ~5 yrs I expect that to scale up where you will get a 1.0 tb for $50. I think that kind of space will be enough for most people.

But that's a monthly fee. I don't see that catching on at that price.

 

[jagowar]

But that's a monthly fee. I don't see that catching on at that price.

yearly

 

[Windu]

But that's a monthly fee. I don't see that catching on at that price.

I think its 7GB for free and then the pricing starts. I have 25GB because they let people that had been using SkyDrive before the recent change keep their 25 GB (25 used to be free).

 

[Marty Chinn]

yearly

I stand corrected; misread too. That's definitely better than I was expecting given the price of like Dropbox and iCloud.

 

[dejay]

I just checked the specs of the Surface Pro, regarding weight and thickness, comparing it to what I have now (Asus Transformer) and iPad. The thickness is less than a mm more than my Transformer, which I can't wait to replace, and is only 230g heavier. Given that it's both a tablet and a dockable PC I think that's amazing. The venting system should allow me to use it in a variety of places, although dust incursion is a concern.

I think I'm gonna bite pretty close to day one unless there are some deal breakers in there, like battery life.

 

[VALIS]

What Microsoft and its OEMs do not want is another netbook situation, where devices must be sold with razor thin profit margins. If MS is selling at a loss, that leaves almost nothing for the OEMs who have to not only have to produce similar hardware, but have to pay an expensive license fee to run WindowsRT.

Bundling in both the keyboard and a free copy of Office indicates they may be going for a "high price but good value" proposition. I think it's at least conceivable that Microsoft wants to carve out the upper end of the product range. What is the point in competing with Apple if you cannot make Apple-sized profits? What do they win if every SurfaceRT sale costs them both money and an Office license?

A foothold in a growing market they are very late in entering. Which is their MO traditionally. Xbox was a hell of a piece of tech compared to the identically priced PS2. Zune compared to iPod. Not sure if Windows phones have held up that standard or not though since I don't follow phones.

 

[Raistlin]

I'm not even talking video. Any type of say art assets like images, PSD files or large PDFs can add up. Not to mention, business policies of not storing sensitive material on third party servers. I think there's a lot of data that can take up space that is outside the realm of someone's personal media collection.

Edit: Unless you're talking about the consumer space; I was referring to the business space.

I was referring to both.

Actually WP8 and Windows RT are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better suited to enterprise. Apple was making some inroads, but they're essentially done now in that sector. Basically everything IT was asking for is there, and MS basically rules the roost in terms of enterprise servers.

BTW - 'Cloud storage' doesn't have to mean 3rd party. That's why MS has stuff like Azure, etc. The cloud can be the corporate servers inside their intranet and firewall.

 

[giga]

Not so fast ....

There are rumors that it is actually Tegra 3+.

There seems to be some confusion whether Tegra 3+ is an intermediate part (die shrunk), or actually is 'Wayne'. Tom's Hardware seems to think the 3+ is Wayne though. And if it is, it utterly destroys Tegra 3 on all levels.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-Tegra-Wayne-Grey-Icera,15407.html


quad-core Cortex A15 CPU ... low power companion core ... totally new GPU w/ current features ... all die shrunk to 28nm


Also to coldfeet's point, this leaves open the possibility of an LTE offering (assuming it can even physically fit).






Did you mean for while you're using it (like carrying a spare)? In that case, yeah ... hopefully its' underneath the kick stand.

I thought you meant like how some phones/tablets have a sealed case and you can't do a user replacement at all.

The only "person" who's confused here is Toms Hardware. If you look at the original source they're referencing and the roadmap shown by Nvidia, Wayne is separate from Tegra 3+.

Here's an even earlier roadmap: http://vr-zone.com/articles/mwc-2012-nvidia-samples-tegra-3--tegra-4-to-oem-partners/15014.html

s you can see on the image above, Tegra 3 will be offered in a refreshed form, codenamed T35. Our sources said this is not a 28nm die-shrink, but rather increased clocks for the Windows on ARM "clamshells". We've been cited 1.6 and 1.7GHz clocked Tegra 3 SOC's, which is 20% higher than the originally predicted 1.5GHz clock.

Bear in mind that first generation of Tegra 3 cores only worked at 1.3-1.4GHz, as the company was constrained by strict thermal guidelines (100 mW idle, 2W TDP). Clamshells have higher TDP and you can expect a lot more functionality coming from this "quad-core plus a ninja core", "4 PLUS 1" (NVIDIA Marketing Team, seriously - just say it's a quint-core and we're over and done with).

Based on information available, T40 i.e. Wayne i.e. Tegra 4 is a 28nm chip which combines several ARM Cortex-A15 cores (our source says it's different from T30) with a new graphics engine which we assume to be compliant with CUDA. Unlike the roadmap which we have here, we've been told that there might be some delays for the T40 since NVIDIA has to attack Qualcomm Snapdragon, and if the company won't offer Tegra 4+Baseband - Qualcomm will get (most) of the design wins.

 

[Raistlin]

The only "person" who's confused here is Toms Hardware. If you look at the original source they're referencing and the roadmap shown by Nvidia, Wayne is separate from Tegra 3+.

The question is how accurate is this now?

Tegra 3 slipped (and was gimped). So is 3+ even happening? And even if it is ... if the launch periods are correct on that chart moving forward, Wayne could make it in anyway. It's a bit of a cluster fuck right now.


Going back to my original point though, let's say it is 3+. The logical upgrade is a die shrink (since that's the main thing that 3 was supposed to have and didn't), so it's likely the battery life will improve versus Tegra 3's unless they clock it notably higher.

 

[giga]

The question is how accurate is this now?

Tegra 3 slipped (and was gimped). So is 3+ even happening? And even if it is ... if the launch periods are correct on that chart moving forward, Wayne could make it in anyway. It's a bit of a cluster fuck right now.


Going back to my original point though, let's say it is 3+. The logical upgrade is a die shrink (since that's the main thing that 3 was supposed to have and didn't), so it's likely the battery life will improve versus Tegra 3's unless they clock it notably higher.

Is there any indication that it wouldn't be happening? The only problem with the Tegra 3 was that it didn't have an LTE solution.

Wayne into a shipping product before 2013? Unlikely. Those are launches for when the design becomes ready for production. Tegra 3 launched in early November 2011 and the first product, the Transformer Prime, didn't ship till a month later.

 

[Kogepan]

The question is how accurate is this now?

Tegra 3 slipped (and was gimped). So is 3+ even happening? And even if it is ... if the launch periods are correct on that chart moving forward, Wayne could make it in anyway. It's a bit of a cluster fuck right now.


Going back to my original point though, let's say it is 3+. The logical upgrade is a die shrink (since that's the main thing that 3 was supposed to have and didn't), so it's likely the battery life will improve versus Tegra 3's unless they clock it notably higher.

A die shrink really isn't "logical'. This isn't the Intel tick/tock.

As the articule mentioned, its mostly like an binned Tegra3 with higher clocks, hence the +.

There no way they would keep the Tegra3 name for their A15 product.

 

[Raistlin]

Is there any indication that it wouldn't be happening? The only problem with the Tegra 3 was that it didn't have an LTE solution.

As it turns out, my source was apparently bad ... obviously it colored my statements.

My point though was that since the roadmap dates got all messed up due to delays with Tegra 3, maybe they'd just skip 3+ and go to Wayne if it is in fact ready (since it's a new architecture, it's not not necessarily tied to the prior as far as delays go).

Wayne into a shipping product before 2013? Unlikely. Those are launches for when the design becomes ready for production. Tegra 3 launched in early November 2011 and the first product, the Transformer Prime, didn't ship till a month later.

Guess it matters whether or not the roadmap is right regarding Wayne's production-ready date. Just because the prior line hit delays doesn't necessarily mean the current one will - but I wouldn't be surprised.

The map shows Wayne being ready mid-year. So if they can hit close to that it could make it into surface since it's not expected until mid October or later.

A die shrink really isn't "logical'. This isn't the Intel tick/tock.

It is logical when the Tegra 3 was in fact initially planned for 28nm.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/NVID...egra-3-Considers-40nm-Production-185003.shtml

As the articule mentioned, its mostly like an binned Tegra3 with higher clocks, hence the +.

There no way they would keep the Tegra3 name for their A15 product.

But ... unfortunately I was going by a bunk source. I usually expect Tom's HW to get this stuff right, but yeah ... this sucks.

I'm not particularly enthused for the RT Surface anymore ... and I'm worried MS will wait a full year for a refresh if they do one at all. My hope is they release a 1080p Wayne Surface once they are ready, but I don't think they want multiple lines going at once.

 

[eastmen]

Whats the problem for a yearly Windows RT refresh ? It seems to be working for apple and the constant refreshes to the andriod tablets doesn't seem to be helping them.


If they get wayne into the RT then it will be high end through spring of 2013 . A refresh in the fall would work fine

 

[border]

I'd say no for the most part. However, there obviously are some cases where a user doesn't require much beyond Office, email, and a browser. Even in that situation though, Windows RT has a lot of advantages over iPad.

That's what seems to be confusing. A lot of people think the SurfaceRT can be a heavy competitor in the business market, but neither it nor the iPad seem to fit the bill for businesses running their own software. I don't know how many people just need email and Office, as compared to how many need to run custom apps designed by their business.

Once the x86 version reaches reasonable price levels though, it could be pretty popular.

 

[eastmen]

That's what seems to be confusing. A lot of people think the SurfaceRT can be a heavy competitor in the business market, but neither it nor the iPad seem to fit the bill for businesses running their own software. I don't know how many people just need email and Office, as compared to how many need to run custom apps designed by their business.

Once the x86 version reaches reasonable price levels though, it could be pretty popular.

$800 - $1,200 would be a reasonable price in the busniess world. Remember it can replace all devices a worker needs besides cell phone.

1) Office pc - plug the Surface Pro to a dock that connects to a larger monitor + keyboard/mouse

2) Laptop - no longer needed since the surface is just as capable and its much lighter

3) Tablet - Well the surface is a tablet so you wouldn't need this extra device.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Software definitely favours Apple against Windows RT. Don't know why you're laughing about that.

because you can run programs on these tablets, not just apps. We're laughing at the ignorance.

 

[eastmen]

because you can run programs on these tablets, not just apps. We're laughing at the ignorance.

You can't run x86/64 legacy apps on Windows RT . You can only run them on the PRO

 

[border]

$800 - $1,200 would be a reasonable price in the busniess world. Remember it can replace all devices a worker needs besides cell phone.

Are companies really spending that much on devices for their workers? To say that the price of a $1000 ultrabook/Surface is offset because you don't have to buy a tablet is a little bit much -- most companies probably do not have tablets built into their budget anyway. I'd think most places would get a cheap laptop and expect it to take the place of a desktop as well. What companies are buying a tablet, a desktop AND a laptop for their workers?

 

[Marty Chinn]

Are companies really spending that much on devices for their workers? To say that the price of a $1000 ultrabook/Surface is offset because you don't have to buy a tablet is a little bit much -- most companies probably do not have tablets built into their budget anyway. I'd think most places would get a cheap laptop and expect it to take the place of a desktop as well. What companies are buying a tablet, a desktop AND a laptop for their workers?

Not every company is going to need a tablet, but isn't the point of this is that this will appeal to companies who want a tablet in their work space environment? Why do we care about the companies who have no interest in this anyway? They'll buy a normal Windows desktop or laptop in that situation.

 

[eastmen]

Are companies really spending that much on devices for their workers? To say that the price of a $1000 ultrabook/Surface is offset because you don't have to buy a tablet is a little bit much -- most companies probably do not have tablets built into their budget anyway. I'd think most places would get a cheap laptop and expect it to take the place of a desktop as well. What companies are buying a tablet, a desktop AND a laptop for their workers?

it would depend on what postion a person has . If someone is constantly on busniess trips a single surface can replace all the devices he might need.

I'm sure office drones would only need a normal desktop / laptop but not everyone would need only that.

Also most companys lease hardware and not out right buy it

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

because you can run programs on these tablets, not just apps. We're laughing at the ignorance.

Best post ever.

 

[border]

Not every company is going to need a tablet, but isn't the point of this is that this will appeal to companies who want a tablet in their work space environment? Why do we care about the companies who have no interest in this anyway?

Correct, I suppose. I imagine Apple is probably willing to give that section of the business market to Windows tablets. Businesses are too budget-minded to pay for Apple's high margin products, so I suspect that's why they've never had that much interest in appealing to businesses. Even if there was an x86/OSX iPad, they would never want to price it competitively.

So Microsoft is left competing against its own OEMs for Win8 tablets and ultrabooks. Should be interesting.

 

[eastmen]

Correct, I suppose. I imagine Apple is probably willing to give that section of the business market to Windows tablets. Businesses are too budget-minded to pay for Apple's high margin products, so I suspect that's why they've never had that much interest in appealing to businesses. Even if there was an x86/OSX iPad, they would never want to price it competitively.

So Microsoft is left competing against its own OEMs for Win8 tablets and ultrabooks. Should be interesting.

Except those working in busniesses still want apps and programs which means the more sold to busniesses the more apps get sold which makes more consumers want them

 

[Marty Chinn]

Correct, I suppose. I imagine Apple is probably willing to give that section of the business market to Windows tablets. Businesses are too budget-minded to pay for Apple's high margin products, so I suspect that's why they've never had that much interest in appealing to businesses. Even if there was an x86/OSX iPad, they would never want to price it competitively.

So Microsoft is left competing against its own OEMs for Win8 tablets and ultrabooks. Should be interesting.

Is this true though? I see Macs as an option everywhere at businesses. Maybe it's a CA thing, but they are far from uncommon. I also think it's far too simple to state that Microsoft is competing against OEMs and not Apple in the big picture of things. The future of computers is in a more unified eco system and not these walled off separate devices tailored to to different situations. This is Microsoft's way of trying to push that agenda. Let's not pretend Apple doesn't see it either with the way OSX is changing.

 

[maharg]

Is this true though? I see Macs as an option everywhere at businesses. Maybe it's a CA thing, but they are far from uncommon. I also think it's far too simple to state that Microsoft is competing against OEMs and not Apple in the big picture of things. The future of computers is in a more unified eco system and not these walled off separate devices tailored to to different situations. This is Microsoft's way of trying to push that agenda. Let's not pretend Apple doesn't see it either with the way OSX is changing.

If you work in tech or a directly tech related field, macs as an option are common. If you work in another field there usually just aren't options.

 

[Raistlin]

That's what seems to be confusing. A lot of people think the SurfaceRT can be a heavy competitor in the business market, but neither it nor the iPad seem to fit the bill for businesses running their own software. I don't know how many people just need email and Office, as compared to how many need to run custom apps designed by their business.

Once the x86 version reaches reasonable price levels though, it could be pretty popular.

Both Windows RT and WP8 do have have a ton features that are made for enterprise.

They include dedicated hardware for secure boot and BitLocker (drive encryption) as well as management capabilities allowing administrators to install, configure, and remotely delete apps, or set password/PIN policies. These features are all built in. Moreover, admins can not only control market content availability, but they can also set up a managed internal market for their own internal software that is side loaded onto devices. Most importantly all of these management features are being integrated into the MS tools enterprise already use for managing their PC's, etc.

While obviously on the onset businesses won't have internal metro apps, this is a long-term play. Initially RT units would make sense for users that only really need Office and web. Longer term however, it could easily expand as software gets ported to Metro. There will always be cases where certain pieces of software make more sense on a desktop, and in those cases Win 8 is the answer ... but there's also plenty of situations where a business has many employees using in-house SW that could easily make the move. Making that switch is a good long-term bet since it means cheaper HW. Remember we're talking about enterprise here. There are companies who are administrating hundreds or thousands of computers.

It is a very different situation than iPad.

Here's an overview - http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/windows-phone-8-enterprise-features/

Are companies really spending that much on devices for their workers? To say that the price of a $1000 ultrabook/Surface is offset because you don't have to buy a tablet is a little bit much -- most companies probably do not have tablets built into their budget anyway. I'd think most places would get a cheap laptop and expect it to take the place of a desktop as well. What companies are buying a tablet, a desktop AND a laptop for their workers?

Plenty of companies do buy laptops with docking stations for their employees, so hybrids certainly have a place there.

Correct, I suppose. I imagine Apple is probably willing to give that section of the business market to Windows tablets. Businesses are too budget-minded to pay for Apple's high margin products, so I suspect that's why they've never had that much interest in appealing to businesses. Even if there was an x86/OSX iPad, they would never want to price it competitively.

So Microsoft is left competing against its own OEMs for Win8 tablets and ultrabooks. Should be interesting.

It's not just a question of Apple conceding that market, it's that their devices aren't actually as geared towards it from a features and infrastructure point of view.

MS has always had enterprise as a core priority ... Apple not as much, particularly when it comes to their CE devices (though amusingly WP7 was a complete step backwards for MS in terms of enterprise versus WinMobile - that's been rectified however).


That isn't to say companies can't use Mac products for business - plenty do. Obviously the marketshare is heavily in MS's favor though. That's both do to legacy, but also because they simply have more enterprise-level features and infrastructure. So for business that have need of those features ... Mac isn't really an option.

 

[Raistlin]

Whats the problem for a yearly Windows RT refresh ? It seems to be working for apple and the constant refreshes to the andriod tablets doesn't seem to be helping them.


If they get wayne into the RT then it will be high end through spring of 2013 . A refresh in the fall would work fine

There's nothing wrong with yearly refreshes, but there were two things I was thinking of when I posted. And both are the based on the rumor that Wayne will not ship until early 2013.

First, some are wondering if Surface is more about lighting a fire under OEM's asses than a true line of devices. Granted it looks like some of the people speculating on this are actually OEM's (in other words - they're hoping this is the case), but either way the rumor is out there. Based on the supposed Wayne slippage, that would mean the only models of the RT Surface we get will be sans Wayne. For me personally at least, that would suck.

Second, even if this does become a line, if we are to assume yearly updates and that Wayne is delayed ... that would mean Surface is basically launching at the worse time. Within a few months it will be 'obsolete'. There will be Android tablets on the market for 8 or so months running Wayne before Surface gets it.

 

[soultron]

Must be a Microsoft fanboy because I've never wanted an iPad but I really got hard for the Surface. Hopefully the price(s) don't kill my boner.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Saw this tweeted by an Apple fan. I laughed.

now to easily detach the screen from the laptop and......