well they succeeded in other markets like the internet browser, driving Netscape out, but this time they were caught with their pants down
Microsoft Watching Valve's Steam Machine Plans With 'Great Interest'
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
well they succeeded in other markets like the internet browser, driving Netscape out, but this time they were caught with their pants down
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Has MS succeeded in bullying their way into any markets since Bill Gates left?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, well I'm sure I don't have point out that the technology landscape post-2005 or so is completely different than that of the 90s and early 2000s.
I think they are slowly doing that just because it is MS they will do it when it is too late. Really the marketpalce they have for the windows phone/ OS/ Xbox One should be the same
MMaRsu
Member
What the hell are you talking about?
I swear to God not a single thread that I peek my head in goes by without someone making some ridiculous claim out of the blue.
As for Microsoft watching this with great interest.
I certainly HOPE they are watching, I hope they will start making Windows a better platform for gaming due to the competitive pressure from Valve.
Microsoft has ignored the PC gamers for long enough.
Ooo shot right to the heart of the matter
This is what chasing closed platforms has given them. They've spent years and billions of dollars trying to push Sony out of the living room using a closed platform, failed to do so despite huge errors on Sony's part early in the generation, and have now announced their next system to an utter PR disaster. Meanwhile a combination of closed and open platforms completely blindsided them on phones and tablets.
If Microsoft did anything but react these days, they would have been actively pushing for Windows and PC gaming in the living room for the last couple of years (instead of actively sabotaging their own PC gaming business). As it stands they have created the conditions for another open OS to come in, like Android, and succeed in an emerging market that was once Microsoft's to lose.
If Microsoft did anything but react these days, they would have been actively pushing for Windows and PC gaming in the living room for the last couple of years (instead of actively sabotaging their own PC gaming business). As it stands they have created the conditions for another open OS to come in, like Android, and succeed in an emerging market that was once Microsoft's to lose.
When I read this, I have immediate flashbacks to this scene..
"And you, young Skywalker, we will watch your career with great interest"
I have that entire movie pushed so far back into my brain I barely remembered that.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I don't get it.
Unluckily for us, Microsoft has power to push next OS down our throats whether we want it or not. You'll simply buy a new PC with Windows WhateverMicrosoftSellsATM.
PC gaming becoming multi-platform would be great, but honestly nothing what Valve have done so far looks serious. Xi3 piston was the only "SteamBox" shown and it has ridiculously high priced for what it is, no controllers have been shown and SteamOS is simply a joke, I can remote desktop with Windows to Windows too, thanks.
All that looks rather hysteric.
Apparently OpenGL is the problem of Unix OS and the only step in that direction was done by.. AMD with this "Mantle" thing.
PS
Funny that MS entered console market because they were afraid Sony was getting so strong it could kill Windows. =)
May I ask exactly what makes windows gaming inferior to... eh, doh, inferior to what actually?
What are the problems with windows gaming?
Xi3 piston was not a Steam Machine.
Controller is coming on Friday.
Streaming games windows to windows is not really used right now unless you have a certain GPU capable of it.
That run-on sentence.
Streaming is currently the only way to overcome the OGL situation. Valve is working with outside companies on a OGL wrapper to displace that issue.
Valve seems to be working with Nvidia, AMD, and other companies on new APIs, optimized OGL drivers, native Linux ports, and optimized wrapper solutions.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
MS could never ever have been Steam. MS is a publicly owned company who answers to shareholders and the bottom line, while Valve has the freedom to do things the way they want to and take as much time as they need to. The kinds of sales we see on Steam would never, ever have happened under a Microsoft rule simply due to profit margins and shareholders who want ever increasing dividends and stock prices.
I'd love for Valve to go public and let me buy into the company, but the reason why we can't is also the reason why Valve is so successful, and why they are the best choice to do something like this SteamMachine. I personally hope they never go public.
Microsoft should be worried IMHO.
out of the blue? you think microsoft isn't going to try and find anything that possibly violates any of their patents? steam OS is a possible threat so you better believe they will go after it like they did android.
Steam has an offline mode, SteamOS will not be always online.
Doesn't really have a need for a physical drive, and cuts down on costs. If you need one, then the box is an open design, buy it yourself.
I personally don't see this as likely.
Android's troubles don't have so much to do with it's Linux parts so much as in function of certain abilities and features.
If Microsoft goes after Valve, Valve can easily point out similar features in other distros or even use ZorinOS as an example.
Zorin is literally almost a carbon copy of Windows 7 in Linux form. So even if Microsoft did try, they'd most likely:
A) get knocked down for prior art as per above
and
B) have to answer on why they broke their promise to not use legal force against Linux itself(Ergo Novell acquisition terms I believe) to EFF,FSF, and Trading authorities.
Senor Kami
Banned
I think MS is interested in this and wondering if it's possible for a company to make a console as well as a gaming focused PC and not have them cannibalize each other. If they made a Steambox it would kill Steambox. Support for 100% of Steam games (unlike Steambox, which is ridiculous... makes as much sense as some other device being able to play 100% of X1 games while the X1 can't) and it uses an OS that's actually viable.
DidntKnowJack
Member
People are focusing on the patent thing, but I took it as, "If Steam succeeds with this stuff, maybe we'll be able to bring back our pre-180 plans. Sooner, rather than later."
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I think Windows Vista and Windows 8 (albeit to a lesser extent) have shown otherwise. Once the word of mouth turns sour, OEMs aren't going to just bow down to Microsoft and neither will consumers. It certainly doesn't help that traditional PC and laptop sales continue to decline.
You must have missed the part where Valve themselves even denied that the Xi3 Piston was a Steam box. The company who put out that POS tried to claim Valve involvement to get some sales, but Valve has come out to say that did not work on or recognize the thing. So far, the only thing you should judge Valve when it comes to PC gaming in the living room is their only official effort, which is Big Picture. It isn't perfect, but it's a pretty damn good effort.
Also, whether or not you personally can remote desktop with Windows to Windows is irrelevant. Most people have no idea how to begin doing such a thing. Hell, most people probably don't even know it exists. Just like all of the features that people credit Apple for creating when all they did was take existing technology and make it easy for everyday folks. No amount of indignation from the grognards will change that perception.
Joseph Merrick
Member
microsoft watches everything with great interest, because they can't come up with anything worth shit themselves
It is still hundreds of millions. All enterprises sit on Windows, most home users too. There is no way out for enterprises and so far Linux has failed to convince home users, despite numerous Ubuntu like efforts and even free commercial distributions being available.
And Vista, eh, Win XP was there in 2001-2007, while Vista's was 2007-2009. If Win7 wouldn't follow, we'd be stuck with Vista.
Except they said something else:
Valve began some exploratory work with Xi3 last year, but currently has no involvement in any product of theirs,
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/12/piston-steambox-gets-p-ssed-on-by-valve/
In other words, they worked, then got pissed of at each other.
Xi's response:
""We reaffirm the fact that we received an investment from Valve Corporation (as we previously disclosed during the 2013 International CES trade show), and we did so with Valve's written permission," said founder, president and CEO of Xi3 Jason A. Sullivan in the statement. "Second, we were asked to build a product specifically for Valve, and both companies showcased this product the Piston console in their respective booths at CES 2013.""
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/13/xi3-responds-to-valve-comments-regarding-piston-console
So, they've tried it, they got to a point when they demoed it, and then it appeared to be a lol product at a lol price. That's VERY UN-SERIOUS in my books. And why be serious if you have no serious competition? (50-70% of the digital distribution market is Valve's as estimated by Forbes)
My interest, as a customer, is getting rid of DirectX exclusiveness on PC, which is only possible by either boosting OpenGL or some new lib. Boosting Valve, already dominant player on PC gaming market, is not.
How long did it take Microsoft (which was part of OpenGL group by the way) to make DirectX what it is now? And that's Microsoft, which is oh so much bigger than Valve.
I might have missed what is so great about it? Remote desktop part? There are PLENTY solutions, some of them of 1-3 guys team scale, some 1 guy scale. Is there something SERIOUS, something that definitely could not be done by 1-3 volunteers?
In other words, Valve did a good thing that lets people who run Linux discover that remote desktop client is available... Seriously? =)
As someone who actually TRIED connecting PC to a TV, I can share my experience with it. I didn't even need remote desktop or anything like that adding serious lag. I just used long HDMI/USB cables, just to discover that I can't comfortably play PC games on a TV, because most of them assume you sit next to the screen.
I H8 Memes
Member
MS would like nothing more than to see PC gaming die. PC gamers are really just potential Xbox gamers to them. Not only have they dropped pretty much all first party support for Windows gaming but they have also paid to keep games off of PC in the past. I'm half convinced that GFWL was actually meant as a program to sabotage PC gaming. It's a bad enough piece of software to make you wonder.
I guess they never really thought someone was going to step up with a supported OS/API that would threaten Windows OS. Much like Gamestops self inflicted slow death at the hands of Digital Distribution, MS may have seriously fucked themselves if the SteamOS takes off. It's odd to see the small market of PC gaming eventually cause so much damage to the companies that abandon it.
I guess they never really thought someone was going to step up with a supported OS/API that would threaten Windows OS. Much like Gamestops self inflicted slow death at the hands of Digital Distribution, MS may have seriously fucked themselves if the SteamOS takes off. It's odd to see the small market of PC gaming eventually cause so much damage to the companies that abandon it.
killer rin
Member
I'd rather them say that just so I could laugh my ass off at shareholder reactions.
Though I think Microsoft would just say that their solution is Surface. All you would need is a Displayport-HDMI adapter and a 3.5mm-3.5mm cable to make it work on the television. It would be much easier for them to market that and bundle it with a controller than making another Windows PC
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Yea...who the hell said no to such a great idea? They must've been fired right?
I'm picturing a personified Microsoft sitting in a dark room with their sharp-mustachioed face and it's Kubrick stare illuminated by the unnatural greenish glow of their computer monitor, as they watch the Valve newsfeeds and twiddle their fingers, nodding slowly.
Garrus Vakarian
Member
Agreed, the irony will be sweet if true.
On another note, I don't actually mind the mobile link. Clean, simple text and no ads.
Well of course they are interested, Valve seens to be creating a console that shares aspects that their first vision of the xbox had.
Mostly focused on digital, sharing aspects, streaming games and being mostly online, no used games etc
It is like a fieldtest for then to see if they should reactivate their old policies.
The internet raged about MS console but is loving the ideabof sucha Valve console. Ofc they are interested
Mostly focused on digital, sharing aspects, streaming games and being mostly online, no used games etc
It is like a fieldtest for then to see if they should reactivate their old policies.
The internet raged about MS console but is loving the ideabof sucha Valve console. Ofc they are interested
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
Had MS really been paying attention, steam wouldve never existed and GFWL could have been what steam is today. But then again, that would involve more work and more goodwill towards consumers and less money in their coffers at the end of the day. Nah, not really their style as this would mean going against their very own ethos of fucking consumers over for that extra easy dollar! Remember what GFWL first order of business was? Yup, bring XBL fees to pc space. LOL
I have no idea how sensitive the market really is towards graphics, but I assume SteamBox is a direct threat to a sizable segment of XBox and PS4 audiences. In 2014 it will already have an edge in graphics, and the gap will expand greatly in 2015, 16, etc. What Xbox and PS4 have for them is their franchises and a potential controller edge.
Still that Steambox graphic edge could become a tough competition within a couple of years. You can bet Microsoft is watching it closely.
Still that Steambox graphic edge could become a tough competition within a couple of years. You can bet Microsoft is watching it closely.
He's not making a ridiculous claim at all. Microsoft has for years gone around telling people that Linux was infringing on 200+ of their patents, without actually telling people what those patents are. They sued TomTom for it's use of FAT32 on their linux-based devices and funded patent trolls like SCO that suded companies using/making linux: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO–Linux_controversies#Microsoft_funding_of_SCO_controversy
I'm not saying it's guaranteed to happen but it wouldn't be unprecedented either.
Incidentally doesn't SteamOS have a baked-in gaming store?
Actually, that's not the case. You didn't push it back. The entire prequel trilogy has been determined scientifically to be the most forgetful series of movies ever filmed. This is factual and demonstrable.
Wtf is this?
toddhunter
Member
You don't remember Microsoft and SCO? Because I sure do.
But in general I would expect a strong competitive response from Microsoft. Windows and the desktop might not necessarily be the future, but it is still one heck of a cash cow and in my opinion games have always been a big asset.
Will be interesting to see what, if anything, they can do.
EventHorizon
Member
I see killing DirectX as Part II of that plan. Put yourself in Microsoft's fantasy world. The Xbox One has been a huge success. The ability to reach that potential market and Windows at the same time has led to a surge in Metro Apps. Now the Surface tablets and Windows phones don't look so bad because Windows products now have the best app support of all devices.
While this has been going on Microsoft has stalled any new improvements to DirectX. Later they come out with Windows Gaming Services (WGS) that offerers a new API that supports all the latest features of the graphics cards. WGS offers a new gaming mode that allows games more direct control of the PC to boost performance. The catch is that due to "security" concerns over this low level access, WGS will only be offered to Metro apps that have to go through a certification process. WGS quickly becomes THE way to game on the PC.
Microsoft then deprecates DirectX. Later they simply offer an OS that doesn't include it. Now all the WoWs of the PC gaming world have to pay a Microsoft tax in order to run on Windows. Microsoft gets a cut of every game run there.
</conspiracyTheory>
Ok that's far fetched, but I do think that MS will find a way to push apps to Metro only. MS wants the control and money stream of a closed system. That is what Valve fears. The SteamBox doesn't even have to be a huge success for it to protect Valve. It just needs to be competitive enough to keep MS honest on the Windows side.
When I read this, I have immediate flashbacks to this scene..
"And you, young Skywalker, we will watch your career with great interest"
Yah I thought of that too - definitely a very a sinister sounding "got my eye on you" in this case.
I think if Metro manages to catch on then a desktop-less home version of Windows 9, 10 or whatever isn't a unlikely scenario. Depending on what version of Windows the average steam user is running this could be a pretty big problem for valve. (Are there stats on this?)
The situation seems fairly simple to me. Valve at the time of ces 2013 made several form factors of pc to demo for possible partners. Previously xi3 had a failed kick starter for their modular computer. I'm assuming out of interest they invested some money and asked for a prototype so they could both demo it.
The problem seems to be where xi3 claimed it was a steambox whilst valve did not. However at the same time Gabe confirmed the steambox idea. The media and vocal xi3 sales man claimed this was THE steambox.
I assume valve distanced themselves to avoid assosiation of steambox (as a concept) with the piston. the $999 price is clearly very high and most consumers found it laughable.
That's interesting! I'd assume they do but as an open platform, I imagine many people will mod the OS to show store-fronts from others and have a price comparison available. There's nothing to stop anyone doing that
Similar threads
- Locked