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Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor |OT| One Title to rule them all

The delay of several days rubs me the wrong way, especially as we're paying the equivalent of 76.50$ for the game, as usual. This time we're just getting the game days later than usual. I've been looking forward to play the game, but these kind of things make me want to vote with my wallet, and wait for price reduction on pure principle.

On a side note, I keep reading the game is challenging, and I wonder to what extent? I'm not really fond of the idea of being frustrated instead of entertained.

Yeah delays always suck. I just like that crazy term, "digital oceans." I had to use it.

For challenge, there is a system where you can send death threats to, uh... warchiefs I guess? Or maybe any target orc.. anyways, it makes them prepare for your arrival, which means more guards or preparations to fight you. Why would you do this? For greater rewards, of course, in the form of runes.

There's also the whole choose-how-you-take-down-warchiefs aspect from the Nemesis System. You could meticulously undermine their entire support base, or go straight for them. One is obviously more difficult than the other.


This is what I've gleaned from footage and info from the game, so far.

FakeEdit: Actually, I'm not sure if there are selectable difficulties or NG+ now that I think of it. I hope there is.
 

Sesuadra

Unconfirmed Member
The delay of several days rubs me the wrong way, especially as we're paying the equivalent of 76.50$ for the game, as usual. This time we're just getting the game days later than usual. I've been looking forward to play the game, but these kind of things make me want to vote with my wallet, and wait for price reduction on pure principle.

On a side note, I keep reading the game is challenging, and I wonder to what extent? I'm not really fond of the idea of being frustrated instead of entertained.

i am with you on that. just feels odd that we can start playing with everyone else.

it sounds challenging that you have to learn the fight system, did you play batman? it should be like that. if you know what you are doing it is "easy" if you don't it is hard.
 
Why is an internet connection a requirement?

Heard/Read someone say it is?

Steam page mentions a Broadband Internet connection, but doesn't specify where it's needed "constantly" or just for an initial activation or something. It might just be referring to activation & online vendetta stuff.

I guess we'll know the specifics at release.
 

Melchiah

Member
Yeah delays always suck. I just like that crazy term, "digital oceans." I had to use it.

For challenge, there is a system where you can send death threats to, uh... warchiefs I guess? Or maybe any target orc.. anyways, it makes them prepare for your arrival, which means more guards or preparations to fight you. Why would you do this? For greater rewards, of course, in the form of runes.

There's also the whole choose-how-you-take-down-warchiefs aspect from the Nemesis System. You could meticulously undermine their entire support base, or go straight for them. One is obviously more difficult than the other.


This is what I've gleaned from footage and info from the game, so far.

FakeEdit: Actually, I'm not sure if there are selectable difficulties or NG+ now that I think of it. I hope there is.

i am with you on that. just feels odd that we can start playing with everyone else.

it sounds challenging that you have to learn the fight system, did you play batman? it should be like that. if you know what you are doing it is "easy" if you don't it is hard.

Too slow to edit my post on phone. The lure of a new game is often too strong to resist. Principles be damned, when there's something new and shiny in the horizon. ;)

I wish all retail games had demos, so I wouldn't need to buy a game blindly, without knowing if it's too hard for my liking.

And yes, I I've played Arkham Asylum and City, and enjoyed both of them, apart from the latter's Riddler challenges.

Weird, I live in Sweden and steam says 30th September for me.

The PC release appears to be earlier here for some reason.
 

b0uncyfr0

Member
So hearing that you have to decapitate someone to ensure they're gone from the game doesn't sit well with me at all. I figured the nemesis system was a working Eco-system when someone is dead, they actually stay dead whether its by stabbing, decapitation,head blown off.

Case in point; i keep stabbing some low captain in the back and he *apparently* die. His name is then crossed off on the screen like everyone else but no, hes just passed out with serious injuries. This character then has the potential to come back into game later on ;that just seems wrong and tbh i don't want want to face him again. That's why i killed him (her?) in the first place.

Edit: Apparently Monolith have mentioned this: ill need to watch that stream again.
 

InfYn

Member
Wow, I was right to feel the hype. Sleeper hit!

Monolith again pulling all the stops, love it.

6GB VRAM for ultra textures? My R9's had a good run.
 

Kard8p3

Member
So hearing that you have to decapitate someone to ensure they're gone from the game doesn't sit well with me at all. I figured the nemesis system was a working Eco-system when someone is dead, they actually stay dead whether its by stabbing, decapitation,head blown off.

Case in point; i keep stabbing some low captain in the back and he *apparently* die. His name is then crossed off on the screen like everyone else but no, hes just passed out with serious injuries. This character then has the potential to come back into game later on ;that just seems wrong and tbh i don't want want to face him again. That's why i killed him (her?) in the first place.

Edit: Apparently Monolith have mentioned this: ill need to watch that stream again.

TBH I like it, gives more story to the orcs that you fight(and it's also kind of funny, since they keep thinking they're killing you), what's more badass than fighting that tough pig-face fucker you thought you killed 3 hours ago? Now he's stronger and wants revenge.

Sounds cool as hell to me.
 
Lol saw this on the Kotaku review.

ccl28w0sankewjoehho5.gif
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
So hearing that you have to decapitate someone to ensure they're gone from the game doesn't sit well with me at all. I figured the nemesis system was a working Eco-system when someone is dead, they actually stay dead whether its by stabbing, decapitation,head blown off.

Case in point; i keep stabbing some low captain in the back and he *apparently* die. His name is then crossed off on the screen like everyone else but no, hes just passed out with serious injuries. This character then has the potential to come back into game later on ;that just seems wrong and tbh i don't want want to face him again. That's why i killed him (her?) in the first place.

Edit: Apparently Monolith have mentioned this: ill need to watch that stream again.
Orcs can regenerate from pretty bad wounds, so the best way to be sure they're dead and stay that is seperating head from torso. You'll need to be Wolverine to come back from that.

or Deadpool
 
TBH I like it, gives more story to the orcs that you fight(and it's also kind of funny, since they keep thinking they're killing you), what's more badass than fighting that tough pig-face fucker you thought you killed 3 hours ago? Now he's stronger and wants revenge.

Sounds cool as hell to me.

Yeah, I don't see why this is a negative. I mean, if you backstab an orc he's effectively removed from play while you go about your business just like any other game.

He won't do a Jason Voorhees right away, in-game time has to pass for that. Maybe you won't even cross paths with him again. People are acting as if it's Far Cry 2 respawning checkpoints.
 

Raxious

Member
Still not to sure whether or not I'm gonna like this game. It looks interesting but it might get quite repetitive very fast. ( And the world doesn't seem that big ).

Dammit, even though it seems to be quite repetitive, how can I resist a game with such scores :eek:
 

Dr Dogg

Member
Damn Levyne that's a mighty fine OT, great job. I wonder if Monolith still have it about them. Initial impressions sound great but I'm fine perched on my bench for now until some more GAFfer impressions surface.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
This just makes me think about how awesome Arkham could be with the nemesis system. I mean holy shit, talk about the perfect Batman game.

Amp up the map size, include Bludhaven, Starling City, Gotham, Metropolis, etc, insert Nemesis system, unleash the Batman.
 
Question if what I'm about to do is legal:

Will you get banned if you use a VPN to play the game on release date with the Americans? I pre-ordered it on Steam
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
I wish I understood more than a few words of what you wrote. My Tolkien-lore is woefully bad.
To give you a brief summary of the salient facts, from analyses that I've previously written:

In Tolkien's Legendarium the highest power is Eru Iluvatar, the equivalent of god.

He created a race of angelic beings known as the Ainu to aid him in the creation of Arda. Middle-earth is a continent on this planet.

The higher ranking Ainu were named the Valar, the equivalent of Archangels, the less powerful ones were named the Maiar, equivalent of lesser angels. Others existed too, lesser in stature who came to be known as nature spirits.

The origin of all evil in Arda is the most powerful of the Ainu; Melkor, who rebelled against Eru and corrupted Mairon who became known as Sauron and the Fire Spirits which took on the forms of Balrogs. He also engineered the dragons, orcs, wolves etc

During the Second Age after Melkor's banishment, a Council of the Valar was held and it was decided that five Maia in the forms of wizards would go to Middle-earth from Valinor to aid the Peoples of Middle-earth against Sauron who had escaped Melkor's fate.

A list of the key figures:

Eru Iluvatar (god)

Melkor the Rebeller (The most powerful of the angelic beings known as the Ainu, the equivalent of Lucifer)

Kings of the Valar:

Manwë Súlimo, King of the Valar
Ulmo, King of the Sea
Aulë, the Smith
Oromë Aldaron, the Great Rider
Mandos (Námo), Judge of the Dead
Irmo (Lórien), Master of Dreams and Desires
Tulkas Astaldo, Champion of Valinor

Queens of the Valar:

Varda Elentári, Queen of the Stars, wife of Manwë
Yavanna Kementári (Palùrien), Giver of Fruits, wife of Aulë
Nienna, Lady of Mercy
Estë the Gentle
Vairë the Weaver
Vána the Ever-young
Nessa the Dancer

The Maiar that I referenced:

Eönwë (The Herald of Manwë and the mightiest of the Maiar)
Sauron (Melkor's greatest servant and the second Dark Lord)


In terms of providence and free will; Eru grants beings the ability to contribute to the music of creation according to their 'will', if they attempt to alter the cosmic design, seeking creative god like powers they will fail, and no matter how much the rebellious ones blight creation, some unintended good result will occur. These principles apply to all the beings of Arda, from the Ainur to the Hobbits.

Individuals shape their destinies, affect the lives of others and sometimes influence catastrophically the history and even the geography of Arda. But even then, these exercises of free will cannot supersede Eru's ultimate purposes, even if in the short term the cosmic designs can be altered.

Examples:


  • Melkor the offspring of Eru's thought had the free will to oppose his creator's intention. But from the discord, Eru begot a new music which resulted is something glorious; Arda's birth. No matter how much Melkor intended to blight Arda, his actions would only give rise to things more wonderful.
  • Sauron poisoning the mind of Ar-Pharazon and persuading him to invade the the West, results in a direct intervention by an otherwise remote and distant creator (certainly in comparison to the biblical god), thus destroying the King's followers in a great flood. But the faithful escape to Middle-earth.
  • Then in the Third Age, Sauron's ring is destroyed, which results in the renewal of the land and the restoration of the line of Numenorean kings.

It is clear that acts of free will can cause cataclysmic disasters in the temporal, incarnate world, but Eru's ultimate purpose remains unalterable and eternal.

Tolkien described the Valar as 'demiurgic'. Plato used the word demiurge to describe deities who fashion the world and all. The Valar do indeed create the material world of Arda, action that puts them closer to the god of Genesis than to angels. However, there is only one Prime Creator, the One, Eru. Thus, the Ainur and in particular the Valar are sub creators. They participate in the physical making of Arda, but could not have done so had Eru not first given them the theme.

In letter #188 Tolkien stated the following:

"...the whole matter from beginning to end is mainly concerned with the relation of Creation to making and sub creation..."
"...the act of the Will of Eru the One that gives Reality to conceptions, is distinguished from Making, which is permissive."


The etymology of the word:

Demiurge = to divide amongst other possible roots.

The Valar are products of the thoughts of Eru, and as such products are a division of the godhead which actively engages in the skilled work of sub creation, the physical activity of shaping Arda. By being divisions of Eru they are assisting in the further development and division whereby the theme, which is also a product of his thought, is taken from him and shaped by the Valar into the Music and beyond it into the substance of Arda. And finally, they are dividing Arda from Eru, thus assisting in a process of separation through which the One and Arda can contemplate each other. The Valar themselves have subordinates of the same order, but lesser, and thus they are also products of Eru's thought.

And finally turning to Melkor, he was given free will, and great power. Depending on your viewpoint, power doesn't corrupt, it just exposes what was already there. Does that mean that an aspect of Eru was inherently evil? Was Melkor the conduit for that aspect? Was it Tolkien's attempt to create a clear distinction between his own real world views and his work? Certainly. It ties in perfectly with the Manichaean dualism. Good and evil ever opposing each other, even in a creator being, Melkor an outlet for evil, the Valar the outlet for good.

Finally, in terms of the speculation regarding Oromë and Tulkas, well, one can see how easy it would have been for them to simply walk to Mordor and deal with Sauron, but the right to exercise their might was the issue.
Do you think that Talion somehow being revived with wraith-like powers is Mandos' handiwork? I don't see how else this could happen, and the Vala being involved in the plot of this game would be really interesting I think.
Something that is little noticed in the Lord of the Rings is certainly of relevance. While in the Barrow-downs Merry remarkably makes a comment about a past event that he couldn't possibly have any knowledge of regarding a specific event that occurred during the Battle of Fornost. A memory of an individual of Carn Dûm. Now we must ask ourselves, what was the cause of this? Was it the genetic memory concept Tolkien toyed with in other writings? Or was it a case of an individual who died in the area of the Downs, possibly a Dunedan who fell in the war and was buried there. A para-psychological event in which Merry dreams and experiences the actuality of some long ago battle, to relive some unknown individual's last moments to the bitter end.

Now of course this is a mere allusion to such a concept, but one that lends credence to the idea that a being could take hold of another individual. Of course in terms of Talion and Celebrimbor this seems exaggerated beyond Tolkien's allusion to such a phenomenan. To apply Tolkien's thoughts on the continuation of his mythos, "I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched." That he did. "The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands wielding paint and music and drama." That is certainly what Monolith have seemingly done.

In terms of Mandos and Manwë; Celebrimbor unlike Glorfindel and Finrod for example, was not to be reembodied, but to remain in the Halls of Mandos for a very long time. Thus we must ask, could Celebrimbor have escaped the Halls of Mandos? Absolutely not. No being escaped the judgment of Mandos. Even Melkor was executed at his hands, and his spirit banished in the Void. The next point to consider; could Celebrimbor project his fëa (spirit) via some sort of sorcery? It seems very unlikely that he would possess an ability that he could make use of under Mandos' nose. Finally, if not via deception, what about instruction? Could Talion have been an alternative to the Istari? Instead of placing the fate of Middle-earth solely in the hands of the Istari, the Valar decided to allow Celebrimbor to aid Talion in an attempt to further weaken Sauron's forces. Interesting idea, but it certainly is in opposition to the idea that the Istari were to guide the Peoples of Middle-earth via council rather than brute force. What Talion is doing can only be described as brute force, guided by a lust for revenge.
 

Valravn

Member
Sounds better if you take out "it" imo

Indeed, my bad.

Question if what I'm about to do is legal:

Will you get banned if you use a VPN to play the game on release date with the Americans? I pre-ordered it on Steam

Never heard about someone getting banned. You have nothing to worry about.
Using a VPN is against the SSA, but Valve will not actively ban people for using VPN's. So it remains a use at your own risk.
 

KyleCross

Member
Some people say review scores are worthless today, that they've become a problem with the industry. But tell you what, as someone who was never a LotR fan and as such didn't even have this game on his radar, I am now immensely interested in picking this title up after seeing the rave reviews.

If it wasn't for The Evil Within and Bayonetta 2 coming out, I probably would've day one.
 

Sesuadra

Unconfirmed Member
ps4 or pc? oh who am i kidding, ps4 it is.

gtx780 vs ps4 with big tv and i am a lazy ass who is to lazy to connect his pc to the tv..


Edmond Dantès;131725640 said:
To give you a brief summary of the salient facts, from analyses that I've previously written:

hey, i like you. reminds me of the days i played "tolkien knowledge" games with my friends.
 
Edmond Dantès;131725640 said:
The next point to consider; could Celebrimbor project his fëa (spirit) via some sort of sorcery? It seems very unlikely that he would possess an ability that he could make use of under Mandos' nose. Finally, if not via deception, what about instruction? Could Talion have been an alternative to the Istari? Instead of placing the fate of Middle-earth solely in the hands of the Istari, the Valar decided to allow Celebrimbor to aid Talion in an attempt to further weaken Sauron's forces. Interesting idea, but it certainly is in opposition to the idea that the Istari were to guide the Peoples of Middle-earth via council rather than brute force. What Talion is doing can only be described as brute force, guided by a lust for revenge.

What if the source of Celebrimbor's power is linked to Sauron rather than the Valar? After all, the Rings of Power he forged under Annatar's tutelage are extremely potent and they are ultimately a subversion of the concept of free will and an expression of dominance for the bearers. Is it outside the realm of possibility that Celebrimbor forged/spelled something that kept him, at least temporarily, out of Mandos' reach?
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
What if the source of Celebrimbor's power is linked to Sauron rather than the Valar? After all, the Rings of Power he forged under Annatar's tutelage are extremely potent and they are ultimately a subversion of the concept of free will and an expression of dominance for the bearers. Is it outside the realm of possibility that Celebrimbor forged/spelled something that kept him, at least temporarily, out of Mandos' reach?
Celebrimbor derived much of his knowledge of ring forging from Sauron, but it must be remembered that all of Sauron's knowledge was derived from Aulë while he served under him before been seduced by Melkor. It is therefore doubtful that Sauron could have surpassed a being far more knowledgeable than him in the skill of ring forging and that such knowledge was imparted to Celebrimbor. Furthermore, Mandos had foresight beyond all save Eru himself. In Tolkien's mind he was analogous to Heimdall and Osiris, an all-seeing judge of the dead, who knew the fates of all beings of Arda. Deceiving him would be futile, appealing to him only Luthien did successfully. Thus, Mandos would have to be aware of Celebrimbor and his actions.
 

Joco

Member
After Conquest and War in the North both had dismal showings, this game looks like it will finally break the curse that seems to be on LOTR games. Can't wait! My hype is off the walls for this one.
 

Gowans

Member
After reading the reviews I think I'm going to grab this.

Shame it's on Forza Horizon 2 day but it will be something the Mrs will play so I don't have to endlessly watch her play Pinball FX 2 all night long.
 

Lord Phol

Member
After Conquest and War in the North both had dismal showings, this game looks like it will finally break the curse that seems to be on LOTR games. Can't wait! My hype is off the walls for this one.

War in the North is awesome loot and co-op action though! Can't say much good about Conquest.
 
After Conquest and War in the North both had dismal showings, this game looks like it will finally break the curse that seems to be on LOTR games. Can't wait! My hype is off the walls for this one.

Yep, Warner are doing a terrific job with licences, this and Batman. I would love them to somehow get a Ninja Turtles game. Open world Turtles in New York.
 
Nice scores, I'm glad the product turns out to be as good as I expected. One thing I never trust about reviews is when they write about length and such... usually a 12 hours game for a reviewer translates into a 20+ hours game for me. Well, as long as it's fun it doesn't bother me.
 
Preordered the premium edition without even reading what it contains lol. Am i done goofed? Anyway is there a gaf steam group to play together for the nemesis system?
 

Hood815

Member
So theres only two areas ? slightly disappointed ! Cant wait to play it still ! just wish they didnt show so much of the areas before release !
 
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