Milo Yiannopoulos is Going on Real Time with Bill Maher
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Chie Satonaka
Member
Welp, I'm done with Bill.
Or it's possible that people have had those experiences and think that confronting, rather than avoiding, is more effective. Don't be so callous to someone else's experience, and don't always assume that people lack empathy if they disagree with you.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I find this argument very curious. Why couldn't he out these people on the internet, where he already has a massive audience? Why did it have to be at Berkley?
Why are you mischaracterizing my argument as "we should be fair to Milo"? That's not what I said at all
Vincent Grayson
Member
I would assume he could. But his whole deal is making a production out of being a piece of shit, and that doesn't work as well without a live audience.
Because those people he was threatening went to Berkley. It also wouldn't take as long for the information to disseminate or the harassment to start.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Like, its crazy to me that I point out an example of someone not even taking into consideration the idea that "I wouldn't worry about trolls" is a strange thing to say after the last 3-4 years of trolls literally fucking with people's lives, and for pointing that out, I'm considered "callous" for not taking their potential experiences into account. Dude dismissed a verifiable thing Milo's done, dismissed the methods by which he did it, as "I wouldn't worry about it. They don't do those things" and when I point out I'd already mentioned that sort of reaction as part of the problem, I'm being "callous."
That's wild.
He's speaking from a position that AUTOMATICALLY delegitimizes what Milo's done in order to present the "proper" way to respond to his presence, the "proper" approach to minimizing his effect, highly likely due to never having actually internalized or recognized what "a bunch of trolls" can actually do to people, what they've done to people at his slightest urging - and when I point out he did the exact thing I'd already pointed out people were doing in here, it's characterized as callous and presumptive.
Which is, again, apparently the real crime in these conversations so far as some of its participants are concerned.
That's wild.
He's speaking from a position that AUTOMATICALLY delegitimizes what Milo's done in order to present the "proper" way to respond to his presence, the "proper" approach to minimizing his effect, highly likely due to never having actually internalized or recognized what "a bunch of trolls" can actually do to people, what they've done to people at his slightest urging - and when I point out he did the exact thing I'd already pointed out people were doing in here, it's characterized as callous and presumptive.
Which is, again, apparently the real crime in these conversations so far as some of its participants are concerned.
You're callous because you're assuming that anyone who disagrees with you on the method of dealing with people like Milo haven't had any personal experience with discrimination. It's intellectually dishonest.
ElectricThunder
Member
Whole thing is foolish on Maher's part and courting trouble needlessly---hell, VIce has already had their respective HBO profile segments on both him and Spencer that made things clear as clear can be so there's no "bravery" in this so much as whipped up security theatre.
After the studentry at UC Berkeley actively worked to stop Maher from speaking there at a Graduation, I completely understand why he would invite him on the show.
I think ignoring voices like Milo and hoping it goes away is not the right answer. Also stopping them from speaking, rather you like it or not, is ultimately empowering to them. The best way is to meet them head on in a war of ideas and destroy their credibility on the public stage. Too bad Bill isn't the right one to do it. Maybe it will at least be entertaining?
We need a 2017 version of Christopher Hitchens to set these guys on fire with his tongue.
I think ignoring voices like Milo and hoping it goes away is not the right answer. Also stopping them from speaking, rather you like it or not, is ultimately empowering to them. The best way is to meet them head on in a war of ideas and destroy their credibility on the public stage. Too bad Bill isn't the right one to do it. Maybe it will at least be entertaining?
We need a 2017 version of Christopher Hitchens to set these guys on fire with his tongue.
Who is Charles Hitchens?
IrishNinja
Member
some of y'all have some pretty lofty hopes for Maher here - he's not one of the best, and however this goes, it's better for milo
seriously, y'all should read a bit more on dude before whipping out the tired echo chamber mess - it's not simply disagreeing with the guy, he actively causes harm and some of you think that's due a platform
exactly right - the media did go in on much of it, but the same logic here failed there & helped frame the narrative our administration currently holds
yup, it's been known
we really don't
seriously, y'all should read a bit more on dude before whipping out the tired echo chamber mess - it's not simply disagreeing with the guy, he actively causes harm and some of you think that's due a platform
exactly right - the media did go in on much of it, but the same logic here failed there & helped frame the narrative our administration currently holds
yup, it's been known
we really don't
You can tear the guy down without even having him on the show. He doesn't need to be able to defend himself.
EDIT: No one here is advocating for ignoring him. People need to stop acting like that's what's being argued.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Dude Abides
Banned
Christopher Hitchens would probably have sided with Milo.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Maher is gonna try to control the interview, but he's gonna quickly find that he can't.
This isn't Jon Stewart having Bill O'Reilly on or doing a skit with him.
This isn't Jon Stewart having Bill O'Reilly on or doing a skit with him.
I don't think so. Yeah he was very critical of Islam, they have that in common. But not like this.
I don't understand what some of you want. You act like we should just all ignore him. That just lets him fester in his own corner and recruit people to his ideals UNCHALLENGED.
He used to call himself Milo Wagner.
Both of this things are just showing that he has not even a clue about what he is talking. The iron cross is not even a nazi symbol but a lot older and still used by the German army and Lemmy from Motörhead was also wearing one.
Wagner was just a huge opportunist (used people to finance his ideas), not even a really good Nazi or anything his family just used the Nazis for their own personal gain. So that would be pretty reviling. Of course he also wrote some propaganda crap, but the Wagners as a lot of other people saw the Nazis as a good way to gain importance.
However his daughter in law was a huge fan of Hitler, that must be said as well.
edit: fixing mistakes
The difference between O'Reilly and Milo is O'Reilly will debate you in good faith while Milo will not. There's no winning against someone who isn't debating in good faith because their goal isn't winning the debate, it's getting to the stage itself.
Warm Machine
Member
Didn't Oprah Winfrey have actual KKK people on her show a few times?
cartographer
Member
Oh honey.
Metalingus5150
Member
Yeah and she said herself she learned the lesson not to give these type of people a platform.
Yea, and
is what she got out of it.
Some people just shouldn't be given a platform, simply because doing so does more harm than good.
Here's her saying it in an article on it:
Giving people the space to talk is giving them power, whether you think so or not.
Why? There are videos on Youtube of him dismantling, frankly, quite dumb people with headlines about him 'destroying feminist'.
Its about time someone does the same to him.
CheDominik
Member
Wagner was dead for 50 years when Hitler was appointed chancellor.
I agreed.
I've seen some "debates" where Milo goes up against leftists, there are a few on youtube. Frankly, they are always people who are not his equal in terms of speaking ability. He eviscerates them, sorry to say. It makes me very sad.
The guy needs real challenge. If he's man enough.
Last time a Milo supporter shot a student
Last time before Milo made a transgender student target of harassment
And now you expect Milo to have interest in open dialogue
Are you always this naive and/or on drugs?
Because he doesn't argue in good faith. He wins just by standing, or in this case sitting, on stage alongside serious people. It lends him credence and a bullhorn. Odds are, as a result of going on the show, there will be articles written about this in a bunch of places that normally wouldn't give him the time of day.
All Maher is going to do is expand his reach even further. Maybe someone will pat him on the back if he does a good job trying to debate Milo, but there's no winning a debate with someone who isn't looking to debate.
That's not even going into the fact that innocent people are always hurt whenever Milo is given a stage. Hell, last time someone got shot.
Sorry I was talking about the Wagner clan, should have made the whole thing more clear. And also Wagner wrote some antisemitic things but was also supporter of the revolution in 1848 and a supporter of the democratic movement during that time.. So he was also complicated.
And about the iron cross, it is even getting back in the German army and for example is on the plane of the German chancellor.
Box of Kittens
Banned
It's amazing how many people are willing to bury their heads in the sand and think that Milo and his followers are just harmless internet trolls.
That's a good example to cite in the future when people don't understand the risks.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
So have you been targeted like Milo targets people or not
You've been pretty vague about that while being derisive toward others who have
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
When people try to over-intellectualize these things, they run the risk of forgetting some basic principles.
Such as human beings are influenced firstly not by reasoned debate but by impressions and repetition, along with reflected glory. Putting a deplorable person in a nice suit and presenting them on a famous television show can make them look more acceptable.
Wouldn't it be ironic if Milo manipulates Maher into agreeing with him and making Milo appear reasonable. Milo is an expert troll. There are many angles from which he can attack Maher's sense of reality - freedom of speech, being banned from speaking, "weak liberals who need safe spaces", Strong Men Love Controversial Opinions, etc etc.
Moff
Member
that's all true, but as you say yourself Milo is too dumb to know that. what do you think does it say about his political views that he used that symbol and that name?
Alexandre Bissonnette was a Internet troll
He murdered 6 and injured 19 muslims 3 weeks ago
It's why, while I want to see Milo challenged, I don't have faith that Maher is up to the task. I fear he is too likely to agree with Milo on several key points and it is going to be a shit show
There's also the issue with having two people on a stage debating appearing to give equal credence to both view points.
You're missing the point he's making.
Just having him on that stage will give him power he's never actually had before. Regardless of if he's torn apart or not, he's been made into Maher's equal and the equal of everyone on that stage. And that matters.
Either that or he is clever enough to know that people would react to that and he could play them like an instrument and gain popularity by using that outrage. So either he is to dumb to really know this or people are so dumb to fall for it. So whatever you like more I guess.
And both would mean he is just a troll and not really a Nazi. Because I meet some Nazis and skinheads and believe me, usually the skinheads are not the problem, but the nice guy in the suit not saying something stupid when everybody is watching, but still nobody would fuck with him or her.
He already has a lot of power. Did you miss how his book skyrocketed to #1 on amazon recently? And he's all over the news.
Oh well let's just keep sweeping under the rug until it's too late, that'll work! Worked with Trump.
Hes discussed to death on gaf. Its really late to start ignoring him.
Again, no one is saying to sweep him under the rug. You can tear him down without having him on and giving him the platform to extend his reach.
Also, for Trump, he was torn to shreds and fell into every trap set for him in three nationally televised debates, probably the most watched in history, and guess what happened?
Because GAF is the world. Also, NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT.
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