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[royalan]

You can't help the small percentage of those people. They'll just latch on to anything. For the rest of it's funny and dehumanizes him. Again, Stern having Daniel Carver on to let him him talk is humor. The same goes for this clown. Taking him seriously is on you.

This isn't a good way to think.

While less than a majority, 46 percent of Americans say they think that transgender people should be allowed to use only public restrooms corresponding to their gender at birth. A smaller number, 41 percent, think transgender people should be allowed to use the restroom that matches the gender they identify with.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/20/us/politics/transgender-public-bathroom-poll.html

It is not at all a "small percentage of people" who would be susceptible to a bullshit sex crime statistic. Milo's shit is dangerous because there's a large group of people out there poised to believe it and give it power.

Good for you for finding it funny, but recognize your bubble, please.

 

[Kinsei]

It's the *wrong* approach to a troll. I get why people don't want to admit how badly it backfired because in the moment the speech got cancelled it must have felt like a win, but I knew it wasn't. Not with this guy.

Please read the guardian piece I linked, and please consider what it says before disregarding it.

The same article where the author waves away the real harm Milo has done at college campuses?

Fuck moral high ground.

 

[The Kree]

Why is anyone taking gamz seriously? Dude is a joke.

 

[sazzy]

The coverage of the violent protests put that book at the top of the amazon charts.

If the choice is having two happen NOW or eventually, I'll take eventually thank you.

He's following a playbook of causing as much controversy as possible to get a larger and larger platform.

Please read this article:

http://observer.com/2017/02/i-helpe...aybook-you-should-stop-playing-right-into-it/

quoting to endorse the linked article

 

[FunkyMonk]

Why take him seriously? That's the exact reaction he wants. The dude is a joke. Why give him any kind of power? He's absurd.

You may view him as a joke but to the people he attacks he's not and that's also an attitude he relies on, everytime he's caught out he falls back on the 'tee hee just joking' line. How can you not get it through your head that by laughing you're basically excusing his bullshit? Do you have no empathy whatsoever for the people who he targets?

Hell you think he should be given more opportunities to attack people as he did last night, do you just not care one little bit about the vulnerable people he gleefully attacks as long as you and your wife are entertained?

 

[theCalamity]

Does Milo really have a black boyfriend or is that just something he says?

 

[gamz]

Why is anyone taking gamz seriously? Dude is a joke.

No. The joke is giving him any kind of power. There's always gonna be another Milo, Rush, Coulter, etc....

People that get power on hate. Fuck them and move on.

 

[Ernest]

That little shit doesn't give a single fuck about being "right" or "wrong". He only wants to rattle people just for the "LULZ".

He admitted as much when he said he wanted to get all 3 panelists to tell him to fuck off.
You can't "debate" or have any meaningful discourse with someone who's only intention is to piss you off to the point of profanity.

 

[eot]

Had the protests not gotten violent then he would have been allowed to speak at the university. The violence was necessary.

When you end up saying stuff like this you need to take a step back and reevaluate things. Pepper spraying and beating random people was necessary? For fuck's sake dude.

 

[WedgeX]

NY Times posted their review of the segment.

Despite a brief flare-up of controversy that preceded it, a conversation between Milo Yiannopoulos, the incendiary right-wing author and lecturer, and Bill Maher, the comedian and host of HBO’s “Real Time,” on that program Friday night was a largely docile, chummy affair. There was little conflict or cross-examination, as both men chided the political left for avoiding or drowning out Mr. Yiannopoulos’s views rather than engaging with them.

 

[MUnited83]

I said in my previous post that they should protest the event and his views. Just don't try to shut it down, *because* the effect of doing that is only ever going to be to give the hateful guy a bigger audience to be hateful to.

Some 300 people might have heard him talk at that event.

Because that protest turned violent, hundreds of thousands of people, (I'm not sure if Bill Maher's show gets seven figure audiences) will have heard his hateful anti transgender views on HBO last night.

Protest peacefully. Don't try to shut the event down when it's a troll, because that's feeding the troll. Peaceful protest works. That shit in Berkeley? It clearly *didn't*.

Berkeley protests prevented Milo from commiting a crime on stage. It fucking worked.



You know what a peaceful protest would do? Fucking nothing, and Milo would go on stage and once again commit more crimes.

 

[Jarmel]

So I guess this went really bad.

 

[Orayn]

The violence Milo inspired at Berkely was a community defending itself from him, and it worked.

When you end up saying stuff like this you need to take a step back and reevaluate things. Pepper spraying and beating random people was necessary? For fuck's sake dude.

Some of the specific things done may not have been good, but stopping Milo from speaking was extremely good. There is such a thing as a mixed bag.

No. The joke is giving him any kind of power. There's always gonna be another Milo, Rush, Coulter, etc....

People that get power on hate. Fuck them and move on.

How is putting someone on a TV program and letting them spew hate not giving them power?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

What do you want him to do? It was an honest reaction to something he doesn't know.

How about doing research first, and if you failed to do that, at least go "umm got a cite on that dubious stat?", maybe?

Nah, that'd be too harsh to the poor guest huh.

Spoiler

/s

No. The joke is giving him any kind of power. There's always gonna be another Milo, Rush, Coulter, etc....

People that get power on hate. Fuck them and move on.

Move on? Have you looked at the fucking POTUS??

People like him, Coulter, etc. have real power now. Welcome to reality.

 

[Kinsei]

When you end up saying stuff like this you need to take a step back and reevaluate things. Pepper spraying and beating random people was necessary? For fuck's sake dude.

I'm not a guy.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Where are all the people who were defending this

Maybe they'll come back if we call Milo a neo-Nazi again to concern troll us about what Nazis really are for thirty more pages.

 

[FunkyMonk]

No. The joke is giving him any kind of power. There's always gonna be another Milo, Rush, Coulter, etc....

People that get power on hate. Fuck them and move on.

How about once, just once, you recognise that he's maliciously and purposefully hurt actual people, living breathing human beings, and he's not just someone who should be provided platforms so you can get your lulz?

 

[plagiarize]

The same article where the author waves away the real harm Milo has done at college campuses?

Fuck moral high ground.

This isn't about morals.

It's about effect. He's playing people like you, and reaping the benefits. Don't let your justifiable outrage give him what he wants.

Berkeley protests prevented Milo from commiting a crime on stage. It fucking worked.

You know what a peaceful protest would do? Fucking nothing, and Milo would go on stage and once again commit more crimes.

The guy just went on national TV last night and told hundreds of thousands of people that transsexuals are more likely to commit sexual assault. Unchallenged.

And I'm not remotely convinced that peaceful protest doesn't work. Please, spread the word today that the transgender community are not what people like that troll claim them to be. Defend them with all the energy you can spare, because they need it.

But don't say that fucks name. Don't tell people about the TV appearance last night. Don't continue to let that little shit make this about him.

 

[Lowmelody]

Welp, Maher did exactly what was expected by limply capitulating to and even befriending Milo and 'liberals' making a bad thing worse by running interference for him by mincing the Nazi label to quantum particles. All in all, today is a good day for Nazis, victories abound.

But hey, at least we can sleep soundly knowing we did the right thing by platforming fascism, racism and homophobia. We can even win one day but only if we never use the term Nazi.

The further we amplify the voice of fascism, the more we defeat it, it so simple!

 

[Jackpot]

Does Milo really have a black boyfriend or is that just something he says?

He said he likes "black dick" because it feels forbidden. And how it also means he can't be racist.

But I believe his long-term partner is white.

Why take him seriously? That's the exact reaction he wants. The dude is a joke. Why give him any kind of power? He's absurd.

riiiiiiiiiiight, because it's up to us if he gets power or not...

 

[theignoramus]

I didnt miss that dog whistle when Milo referred to Wilmore and Nance as "low IQ guests."
Tell me more about how this guy isnt a fucking Nazi, race and IQ are one of the core talking points amongst Milo and his movement.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Interview was softball as shit.

It was tee ball

 

[Opticability]

Does Milo really have a black boyfriend or is that just something he says?

Of course not. It's just another piece of building his Iron Man suit. It shields him from every criticism launched at him. "He can't be racist because he has a black boyfriend. He can't be a Nazi because he's Jewish. He can't be xenophobic because he's a foreigner. He can't be homophobic because he's gay."

 

[Screaming Meat]

If that is your primary concern

Do I know you...?

Whether he himself is a nazi is fucking irrelevant his actions enables and emboldens them to the point where he's become they're fucking mascot.

If there is a difference between enabling an action and performing it ones self, it's very relevant. What's the problem with calling him out on his shit accurately...? It's atrocious enough without turning Nazi into a catch-all term for every idiot out there.

But keep wasting everyone's time on pointless fucking semantics and pedantry

It's worrying that correctly labelling the 'crime' (for want of a better word) is considered "fucking semantics and pedantry". That's a slippery slope if ever I saw one.

However comforting it seems, let's not get high on our own righteous indignation just yet. It doesn't achieve anything.

 

[Lowmelody]

Of course not. It's just another piece of building his Iron Man suit. It shields him from every criticism launched at him. "He can't be racist because he has a black boyfriend. He can't be a Nazi because he's Jewish. He can't be xenophobic because he's a foreigner. He can't be homophobic because he's gay."

Spot on.

He is one of the Nazi's most effective tools of propaganda for this very reason. Plausible deniability for dayyys.

 

[Doctor Bat]

Milo will appeal to Maher's Islamaphobia and Maher will say he's not that bad.

Winner winner chicken dinner

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Of course not. It's just another piece of building his Iron Man suit. It shields him from every criticism launched at him. "He can't be racist because he has a black boyfriend. He can't be a Nazi because he's Jewish. He can't be xenophobic because he's a foreigner. He can't be homophobic because he's gay."

Not all white supremacists are Nazis. Nazism is a specific ideology, advocates for ethnic cleansing and genocide, and has its "Aryan" mythos.

The fact that Nazism specifically calls for genocide is a good reason why it is (and should be) banned in many country. Free speech is free speech until it specifically calls for violence, which is a line that Nazism crosses, but not all white supremacist ideologies cross that line. That's why I think it's important to make the distinction.

Spoiler

edit: Anyway, I realize how off topic and tedious this debate is getting. Probably best to just let it go.

 

[whytemyke]

It's worrying that correctly labelling the 'crime' (for want of a better word) is considered "fucking semantics and pedantry". That's a slippery slope if ever I saw one.

However comforting it seems, let's not get high on our own righteous indignation just yet. It doesn't achieve anything.

Rebellions are BUILT on righteous indignation!

 

[plagiarize]

Of course not. It's just another piece of building his Iron Man suit. It shields him from every criticism launched at him. "He can't be racist because he has a black boyfriend. He can't be a Nazi because he's Jewish. He can't be xenophobic because he's a foreigner. He can't be homophobic because he's gay."

And that's why we can't make the protests about *him*. His positions are indefensible. I don't have to invoke his name to tear down his viewpoints. You can't respond to him with 'how can someone like him believe that'.

You've got to think 'how can anyone believe that when it's demonstrably wrong'.

You beat bad ideas with better ideas. You don't beat a troll by feeding into the controversy around them, and there are many people who will be prepared to bring on someone like this fucker when their name is in the press. You will never take away their platform by shutting down individual events.

That tactic doesn't work.

It didn't work against Anita Sarkeesian (who I like) and it won't work against a hateful troll. When you make them the story, you elevate their platform. I mocked gamergate because I knew their tactics to try and suppress speech was only going to bring Anita's views to a larger audience... and that is indeed what happened.

Whenever someone is stupid enough to book this troll, remind everyone how wrong his views are. Do not make it personal. Do not let him make himself out to be the victim.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Not all white supremacists are Nazis. Nazism is a specific ideology, advocates for ethnic cleansing and genocide, and has its "Aryan" mythos.

The fact that Nazism specifically calls for genocide is a good reason why it is (and should be) banned in many country. Free speech is free speech until it specifically calls for violence, which is a line that Nazism crosses, but not all white supremacist ideologies cross that line. That's why I think it's important to make the distinction.

You put it better than I could.

Rebellions are BUILT on righteous indignation!

I did write "just yet"

 

[Slayven]

People that want to entertain milo and others like him because to them it is like going to the zoo. They can look at it from the safety of glass/privilege, and if it gets too real they can just opt out and go home.

But the people that it effects sadly can't they have to grin and bare it and hope folks wise up

 

[Muffin1611]

Not all white supremacists are Nazis. Nazism is a specific ideology, advocates for ethnic cleansing and genocide, and has its "Aryan" mythos.

The fact that Nazism specifically calls for genocide is a good reason why it is (and should be) banned in many country. Free speech is free speech until it specifically calls for violence, which is a line that Nazism crosses, but not all white supremacist ideologies cross that line. That's why I think it's important to make the distinction.

You know that Spencer, the "founder" of the movement Milo is a prominent member of, had articles like "Is Black Genocide right?" published, right?

 

[RinsFury]

You can't help the small percentage of those people. They'll just latch on to anything. For the rest of it's funny and dehumanizes him. Again, Stern having Daniel Carver on to let him him talk is humor. The same goes for this clown. Taking him seriously is on you.

This is a bad opinion.

There is nothing funny about this.

 

[plagiarize]

You know that Spencer, the "founder" of the movement Milo is a prominent member of, had articles like "Is Black Genocide right?" published, right?

He's a member of whatever he thinks is going to give him the most exposure and upset liberals. Don't confuse him for someone like Spencer.

They are both dangerous, but they need to be handled very differently. I'll smile all day long when someone punches Spencer, because I know he won't be able to leverage that.

If someone punches that British troll though? I won't celebrate that. Because I know exactly how he'd be able to leverage it into something that would allow him to do even more harm to people. Which would be completely secondary to him, because he doesn't care about anyone other than himself.

 

[gamz]

He's a member of whatever he thinks is going to give him the most exposure and upset liberals. Don't confuse him for someone like Spencer.

They are both dangerous, but they need to be handled very differently. I'll smile all day long when someone punches Spencer, because I know he won't be able to leverage that.

If someone punches that British troll though? I won't celebrate that. Because I know exactly how he'd be able to leverage it into something that would allow him to do even more harm to people. Which would be completely secondary to him, because he doesn't care about anyone other than himself.

Bingo!

 

[Toxi]

It's incredible anyone could see that interview and pretend Bill Maher had even the intent of actually challenging Milo's viewpoints.

 

[royalan]

Not all white supremacists are Nazis. Nazism is a specific ideology, advocates for ethnic cleansing and genocide, and has its "Aryan" mythos.

The fact that Nazism specifically calls for genocide is a good reason why it's banned in many country. Free speech is free speech until it specifically calls for violence, which is a line that Nazism crosses, but not all white supremacist ideologies cross that line. That's why I think it's important to make the distinction.

What? Nazi's didn't originally call for genocide. That was the result of their anti-semitism and racism running unchecked. It was a step-by-step process; Hitler didn't bring the Nazis to power by running around screaming, "Vote for me and I'll kill all the jews!"

The white-supremacist ideology, separatism and extreme xenophobia that characterized the early Nazi party is VERY apparent in a lot of these new white supremacist groups. So yeah, they're very much Nazis.

 

[LifEndz]

Sounds like skipping this week's episode would be the smart choice for me. Might only watch the opening monologue and new rules.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Taking him seriously is on you.

What about the student at the University of Wisconsin he shamed out of studying? Is that on her?

 

[Slayven]

It's incredible anyone could see that interview and pretend Bill Maher had even the intent of actually challenging Milo's viewpoints.

That is why i don't see the value of putting Mahr, Stewart, Bee, and others on the pedestal

 

[Bobby Roberts]

First you have to name it correctly
Then you have to apply that name very specifically
Then you have to be judicious as to how often you apply that name despite using it correctly and specifically
Then you have to give it equal time
Then you have to debate it
Then you have to be rational and well behaved while debating it.
Then you have to attempt to find that common ground.
Then you have to crawl out onto that ground first
Then you have to stand there open and trusting, well behaved and rational.
And then you get cancer, become sick, and die.

Because what you're asking people to rationally debate is cancer.

Which leads to the "logical" conclusion, stated multiple times in multiple ways throughout the course of this thread, that if you can't talk your way out of cancer, maybe you just deserve to get it. Maybe cancer isn't really that bad if you couldn't figure how to stop it with your well chosen, politely delivered, patient and well-mannered arguments against it. Maybe you're just too irrational and easily distracted and misguided to successfully prevent letting cancer take over your body. Guess you're not as smart and righteous as you think you are, huh.

I know the phrase "privilege" almost automatically causes knees to jerk and eyes to roll back, but that's what a lot of this is, really. A lot of people shrugging off the slow-motion normalization of fascist white nationalist authoritarianism, because its immediate effects can be easily shrugged off when you're convinced it's not really a threat, when it's just dumb jokes (that are also kinda funny, really, right? Shit is so absurd! haha!), when it's chained to a specific era of history that can't possibly circle back around because when the fuck does history do that, right? So why not let that stuff get put on TV. Why not let it get presented as if its proponents give the slightest inkling of a shit about good faith debate. Someone will be smart enough to talk people out of their exposure to cancerous material, right? And if not, then I guess they weren't as smart as they thought they were, huh. Serves 'em right.

Serves 'em right.

 

[The Adder]

The coverage of the violent protests put that book at the top of the amazon charts.

If the choice is having two happen NOW or eventually, I'll take eventually thank you.

He's following a playbook of causing as much controversy as possible to get a larger and larger platform.

Please read this article:

http://observer.com/2017/02/i-helpe...aybook-you-should-stop-playing-right-into-it/

And let all the people he directly sets his audience on suffer?

You can fuck right off with that sentiment.

 

[legacyzero]

So I got a chance to watch the entire show again, and I think I maintain my stance generally.

I agree with Milo on his "If you dont show up for the debate, you lose." And while I will agree with most of GAF in this thread that are heated at even the fact that he's on the show, that there's no debating Milo in an effort to shift that slimy shitball's stance.

I imagined Maher was going to have "middle ground" with Milo on 1st amendment, debate, crazy liberal outrage, which I completely agree with. But Milo's bullshit on Transgender, hiring gay workers, and his held stance on how he treated Lesli. I was hoping Maher would hold Milo's feet to the fire, which he did a few times, only to seem to gleefully cool them right after.

But that Panel was a pretty nice firing squad. Willmore went IN.

I'm not unhappy with the show, but a little disappointed with Bill for not keeping the focus on Milo's shitty activity. But I'm glad I got to see him roasted by Willmore.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

What? Nazi's didn't originally call for genocide. That was the result of their anti-semitism and racism running unchecked. It was a step-by-step process; Hitler didn't bring the Nazis to power by running around screaming, "Vote for me and I'll kill all the jews!"

The white-supremacist ideology, separatism and extreme xenophobia that characterized the early Nazi party is VERY apparent in a lot of these new white supremacist groups. So yeah, they're very much Nazis.

Social Darwanism and eugenics was very much a huge force in early Nazism. You can't really have Nazism without it.

I agree with you that nazism and a lot of the ideologies similar to it are very much alive and well in the alt-right circles.

 

[Morat]

First you have to name it correctly
Then you have to apply that name very specifically
Then you have to be judicious as to how often you apply that name despite using it correctly and specifically
Then you have to give it equal time
Then you have to debate it
Then you have to be rational and well behaved while debating it.
Then you have to attempt to find that common ground.
Then you have to crawl out onto that ground first
Then you have to stand there open and trusting, well behaved and rational.
And then you get cancer, become sick, and die.

Because what you're asking people to rationally debate is cancer.

Which leads to the "logical" conclusion, stated multiple times in multiple ways throughout the course of this thread, that if you can't talk your way out of cancer, maybe you just deserve to get it. Maybe cancer isn't really that bad if you couldn't figure how to stop it with your well chosen, politely delivered, patient and well-mannered arguments against it. Maybe you're just too irrational and easily distracted and misguided to successfully prevent letting cancer take over your body. Guess you're not as smart and righteous as you think you are, huh.

I know the phrase "privilege" almost automatically causes knees to jerk and eyes to roll back, but that's what a lot of this is, really. A lot of people shrugging off the slow-motion normalization of fascist white nationalist authoritarianism, because its immediate effects can be easily shrugged off when you're convinced it's not really a threat, when it's just dumb jokes (that are also kinda funny, really, right? Shit is so absurd! haha!), when it's chained to a specific era of history that can't possibly circle back around because when the fuck does history do that, right? So why not let that stuff get put on TV. Why not let it get presented as if its proponents give the slightest inkling of a shit about good faith debate. Someone will be smart enough to talk people out of their exposure to cancerous material, right? And if not, then I guess they weren't as smart as they thought they were, huh. Serves 'em right.

Serves 'em right.

This is a good post.

 

[The Adder]

So I got a chance to watch the entire show again, and I think I maintain my stance generally.

I agree with Milo on his "If you dont show up for the debate, you lose."

You don't debate Nazis.

 

[Toxi]

If I call Donald Trump for a debate and he ignores me, that means I win, right? Everyone now sees the logic of my position, right?

Or does that logic only apply to bigoted cunts?

 

[Muffin1611]

He's a member of whatever he thinks is going to give him the most exposure and upset liberals. Don't confuse him for someone like Spencer.

They are both dangerous, but they need to be handled very differently. I'll smile all day long when someone punches Spencer, because I know he won't be able to leverage that.

If someone punches that British troll though? I won't celebrate that. Because I know exactly how he'd be able to leverage it into something that would allow him to do even more harm to people. Which would be completely secondary to him, because he doesn't care about anyone other than himself.

What?! So because he only associates himself with Nazis and helps their agenda in every way possible, for some supposedly selfish reasons he doesn't deserve the same treatment as them?

 

[studyguy]

Just a heads up Milo is now headlining CPAC. So he now gets to speak to mainstream Republicans the likes of Cruz and Pence along with the slew of future stars.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/b4c1c1aa7d6aec8c67f4adbc036537ba/tumblr_olkf7cJesz1r27q2lo1_540.png

If Milo types were a just a parasitic worm to the old conservatives before then that notion is quickly changing. He will be rubbing elbows with the future of the Republicans now.

 

[Slayven]

Just a heads up Milo is now headlining CPAC. So he now gets to speak to mainstream Republicans the likes of Cruz and Pence along with the slew of future stars.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/b4c1c1aa7d6aec8c67f4adbc036537ba/tumblr_olkf7cJesz1r27q2lo1_540.png

The fact he wants to hang with people that would love to see him shocked into straightness says it all really.