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[Breads]

If I call Donald Trump for a debate and he ignores me, that means I win, right? Everyone now sees the logic of my position, right?

Or does that logic only apply to bigoted cunts?

Don't bother. Stupidity is as rampant as bigotry is.

Dummies still don't get that the goal of no platforming isn't to end bigotry. Bigotry is here to stay. The goal of no platforming is to not hand bigots a megaphone and a direct access to your audience.

 

[The Adder]

No, seriously. Should we be debating the merits of child predation with people who are against age of consent laws?

"Oh, Adder, that's not the same!"

The fuck it isn't! The only difference is that none of you "let's fight atrocities with rational arguments" people have the fucking stones to step up and say a word in its defense. Because children are universally unacceptable targets. Transgender folks, minorities, immigrants? "Oh, well you're ALLOWED to threaten them in the name of a good debate!"

 

[royalan]

Social Darwanism and eugenics was very much a huge force in early Nazism. You can't really have Nazism without it.

I agree with you that nazism and a lot of the ideologies similar to it are very much alive and well in the alt-right circles.

True, but neither of those things are a call for genocide.

The social Darwinism and general belief that white people should be a special class of citizen because they are a superior race genetically is peddled every day by fuck-faces like Spencer. This is literally Nazism.

 

[Screaming Meat]

First you have to name it correctly
Then you have to apply that name very specifically
Then you have to be judicious as to how often you apply that name despite using it correctly and specifically

Yep. It's vital to accurately identify and attribute labels like Nazi, White Supremacist, etc. If we call anyone with a shitty world view a 'Nazi' it loses it's effectiveness. Instead of having connotations of genocide, authoritarianism and racism, it'll start being 'the word Liberals use when someone doesn't agree with them.'

Then you have to give it equal time
Then you have to debate it
Then you have to be rational and well behaved while debating it.
Then you have to attempt to find that common ground.
Then you have to crawl out onto that ground first
Then you have to stand there open and trusting, well behaved and rational.

No. Hate Speech does not deserve to be formally debated or given any platform.

These two positions are not mutually exclusive, in my opinion.

You don't debate Nazis.

Precisely. It legitimises their shit.

True, but neither of those things are a call for genocide.

The social Darwinism and general belief that white people should be a special class of citizen because they are a superior race genetically is peddled every day by fuck-faces like Spencer. This is literally Nazism.

Dick Spencer is without question a Nazi.

"Peaceful Ethnic Cleansing" /smh

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Just a heads up Milo is now headlining CPAC. So he now gets to speak to mainstream Republicans the likes of Cruz and Pence along with the slew of future stars.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/b4c1c1aa7d6aec8c67f4adbc036537ba/tumblr_olkf7cJesz1r27q2lo1_540.png

If Milo types were a just a parasitic worm to the old conservatives before then that notion is quickly changing. He will be rubbing elbows with the future of the Republicans now.

Give it a couple of decades, and these Gamergate/MRA/reddit troll crusader types will be the "normal" right-wing.

 

[Morat]

Give it a couple of decades, and these types will be the "normal" right-wing.

It's not going to take decades.

 

[Slayven]

Give it a couple of decades, and these types will be the "normal" right-wing.

Well the current "normal" right-wing is just better at dogwhistling and talking in code. But they pretty much believe the same thing

 

[Breads]

Yep. It's vital to accurately identify and attribute labels like Nazi, White Supremacist, etc. If we call anyone with a shitty world view a 'Nazi' it loses it's effectiveness. Instead of having connotations of genocide, authoritarianism and racism, it'll start being 'the word Liberals use when someone doesn't agree with them.'



No. Hate Speech does not deserve to be formally debated or given any platform.

These two positions are not mutually exclusive, in my opinion.



Precisely. It legitimises their shit.

Hilarious how you edited out the rest of the post to make your point.

 

[legacyzero]

You don't debate Nazis.

You must have stopped reading my post right there.

 

[Tarydax]

I agree with Milo on his "If you dont show up for the debate, you lose."

Milo ignored both Nance and Wilmore and resorted to personal attacks and racist dogwhistles. That's not a debate. There's no point in even trying to debate someone like that. To give Milo a platform to spew his bullshit is to capitulate to him, and to debate him as though he's capable of rational thought or is open to changing his deplorable views is to legitimize him.

Also, Bill Maher didn't show up for a debate, he showed up to make a new friend. It was beyond pathetic.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Hilarious how you edited out the rest of the post to make your point.

What would you prefer I did?

 

[Toxi]

Don't bother. Stupidity is as rampant as bigotry is.

Dummies still don't get that the goal of no platforming isn't to end bigotry. Bigotry is here to stay. The goal of no platforming is to not hand bigots a megaphone and a direct access to your audience.

It's absurd because these arguments of what "wins" never apply to positions that aren't morally backwards and reprehensible.

A guy punching Richard Spencer in the face means "he wins". A white supremacist murdering 9 people in a black church doesn't make a single racist bat an eye.

 

[Morat]

Hilarious how you edited out the rest of the post to make your point.

Yeah, that was not the point Roberts was making.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Liberal SJW cucks like Larry Wilmore can only fling insults at based Milo because they know he's right!

Spoiler

There, I just saved you from reading half the YouTube comments.

I gave Bill the benefit of the doubt for inviting Milo on, but that sucked. He needed to go hard on him. Instead we got a lame ass softball interview with a known hatemonger. And did he seriously compare Milo to Christopher Hitchens?! What a fucking joke. I wish Hitchens was still alive so he could tear both of them a new asshole.

He's a member of whatever he thinks is going to give him the most exposure and upset liberals. Don't confuse him for someone like Spencer.

They are both dangerous, but they need to be handled very differently. I'll smile all day long when someone punches Spencer, because I know he won't be able to leverage that.

If someone punches that British troll though? I won't celebrate that. Because I know exactly how he'd be able to leverage it into something that would allow him to do even more harm to people. Which would be completely secondary to him, because he doesn't care about anyone other than himself.

Nail on the head. This is why I think it was a mistake for Bill to have him on the show. Milo is just a troll; you're not going to get anything reasonable or useful out of an interview with him.

 

[Slayven]

Transgender folks humanity

Minority's humanity

Muslim's humanity

shouldn't be a debate in the first place.

When "Allies" frame shit like this as debatable, we pretty much already lost

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Watched the main interview. Lame that Maher didn't press Milo on his most hateful comments and stunts. It was obvious that his whole angle was "Look at the overreacting liberals, this guy is harmless"

Was nothing more than both of them feeding off the controversy to advance their agendas.

 

[The Adder]

You must have stopped reading my post right there.

No, I read it. It's irrelevant because I was responding to agreeing with his statement. You don't debate Nazis. His statement cannot be agreed with to any degree. Not every Nazi is Milo. It doesn't matter, you don't debate Nazis.

 

[royalan]

Transgender folks humanity

Minority's humanity

Muslim's humanity

shouldn't be a debate in the first place.

When "Allies" frame shit like this as debatable, we pretty much already lost

AMEN

 

[.JayZii]

You don't debate Nazis.

You can still show up and tell them how their views are shit.

 

[Toxi]

Transgender folks humanity

Minority's humanity

Muslim's humanity

shouldn't be a debate in the first place.

When "Allies" frame shit like this as debatable, we pretty much already lost

The people calling for debate aren't even debating this shit. They're just letting the garbage stink up the place and pretending they're doing something about it.

 

[Kinsei]

Transgender folks humanity

Minority's humanity

Muslim's humanity

shouldn't be a debate in the first place.

When "Allies" frame shit like this as debatable, we pretty much already lost

Yep.

 

[legacyzero]

You can still show up and tell them how their views are shit.

EXACTLY.

No, I read it. It's irrelevant because I was responding to agreeing with his statement. You don't debate Nazis. His statement cannot be agreed with to any degree. Not every Nazi is Milo. It doesn't matter, you don't debate Nazis.

Cool. So just dont show up. They're going to find their platform. Find it with them and commence to tearing their shit down. Or sit on the sidelines with your arms folded

 

[Screaming Meat]

Yeah, that was not the point Roberts was making.

I didn't agree with the opening, so that's what I quoted. I have no issue with the conclusion. ¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[ezekial45]

Transgender folks humanity

Minority's humanity

Muslim's humanity

shouldn't be a debate in the first place.

When "Allies" frame shit like this as debatable, we pretty much already lost

Yep. We're already in a bad way right now, and this episode just put that into focus.

Good on Wilmore for not taking Milo's shit, but this episode was just a mess altogether. Very disappointing to see how low we've sunk in just a few months.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Transgender folks humanity

Minority's humanity

Muslim's humanity

shouldn't be a debate in the first place.

When "Allies" frame shit like this as debatable, we pretty much already lost

Well said, damn I'm still angry about how Bill Maher handled this. I like his panels but don't think I'll watch again because of this shit.

 

[The Adder]

You can still show up and tell them how their views are shit.

EXACTLY.

You don't let them talk in the first place. Not in your house. Not in any house you've got a stake in. If they want to speak, let them get their own platforms to speak from.

 

[Toxi]

You can still show up and tell them how their views are shit.

You mean what Maher didn't do? What most of the liberals complaining about the Berkley protests didn't do?

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

That Milo dude came off as an ignorant provocateur.

I don't get why you all are up in arms about this guy. He's a loud mouth bag of shit.

As far as I know, Bill Maher only agreed with Milo on two issues: free speech and debate, and transgender access to bathrooms.

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

 

[Kinsei]

That Milo dude came off as an ignorant provocateur.

I don't get why you all are up in arms about this guy. He's a loud mouth bag of shit.

As far as I know, Bill Maher only agreed with Milo on two issues: free speech and debate, and transgender access to bathrooms.

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[OniBarubary]

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

Wow.

Fucking wow.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That Milo dude came off as an ignorant provocateur.

I don't get why you all are up in arms about this guy. He's a loud mouth bag of shit.

As far as I know, Bill Maher only agreed with Milo on two issues: free speech and debate, and transgender access to bathrooms.

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

...

Yes trans folk are the ones with sheltered lives... good god.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

...the fuck?

 

[FunkyMunkey]

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

speaking of sheltered lives it's obvious you've never met a transgender person in your life, or you're just ignorant

 

[Lowmelody]

Go fuck yourself.

For real.

Sheltered...

 

[The Adder]

That Milo dude came off as an ignorant provocateur.

I don't get why you all are up in arms about this guy. He's a loud mouth bag of shit.

As far as I know, Bill Maher only agreed with Milo on two issues: free speech and debate, and transgender access to bathrooms.

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

There are already laws against men molesting little girls.

I also love how this post says nothing about, you know, cis women molesting little girls and cis men molesting little boys.

Fuck outta here with this disingenuous bullshit.

Go fuck yourself.

Actually, you know what. I'm sorry to everyone I let down by bothering with what I typed above. I don't give a shit if I'm on my last life, Kinsei's right

Btgorman, go fuck yourself.

 

[Gutek]

I'm done with Bill Maher.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

You don't have any idea what you're talking about. None. Zero.

 

[Cipherr]

"I dont know what you all are freaking out about"

Hmm....

"I happen to agree with him on Transgend.."

Yeah okay... that'll be enough mate.

 

[legacyzero]

That Milo dude came off as an ignorant provocateur.

I don't get why you all are up in arms about this guy. He's a loud mouth bag of shit.

As far as I know, Bill Maher only agreed with Milo on two issues: free speech and debate, and transgender access to bathrooms.

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

"From my experience". What experience? There was a link drop earlier that fact checked your exact stance, and there has only been one instance of something like that WORLD WIDE. Yes, there are predators, but you just dont see those kinds of sickos practicing in PUBLIC spaces. It's just not a thing.

Go fuck yourself.

Wow.

Fucking wow.

"I dont know what you all are freaking out about"

Hmm....

"I happen to agree with him on Transgend.."

Yeah okay... that'll be enough mate.

Well, It's nice to see everybody playing nice and having a tough debate about the issue.

Perhaps maybe start by telling the poster why they are wrong, and DISCUSS IT. You know- ON A DISCUSSION BOARD.

 

[gamz]

That Milo dude came off as an ignorant provocateur.

I don't get why you all are up in arms about this guy. He's a loud mouth bag of shit.

As far as I know, Bill Maher only agreed with Milo on two issues: free speech and debate, and transgender access to bathrooms.

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

Wow! You seriously have no clue.

 

[MsVirion]

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

Women. In this case we're talking about transgender women, which is the point.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Well, It's nice to see everybody playing nice and having a tough debate about the issue.

That debate should be long over, but by all means, step up.

 

[gamz]

Well, It's nice to see everybody playing nice and having a tough debate about the issue.

What's to debate? Are you being serious?

 

[Addi]

He seemed triggered at being called Bruno, let's continue doing that

 

[Toxi]

Well, It's nice to see everybody playing nice and having a tough debate about the issue.

Would you also be asking for debate if the poster instead was talking about black people? How about gay people?

 

[Kinsei]

Well, It's nice to see everybody playing nice and having a tough debate about the issue.

They just said that I shouldn't be able to use a public washroom because it will suddenly make sexual assault legal. There's no debate to be had. Get outta here with this bullshit.

 

[ezekial45]

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

Seriously, go fuck yourself.

 

[Tarydax]

That Milo dude came off as an ignorant provocateur.

I don't get why you all are up in arms about this guy. He's a loud mouth bag of shit.

As far as I know, Bill Maher only agreed with Milo on two issues: free speech and debate, and transgender access to bathrooms.

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

Fuck you.

Also, most rapists know the victim. If you're so concerned about little girls, you shouldn't want any of their family members or friends to be anywhere near a bathroom with them - at least that would be the case if you really gave a shit.

Well, It's nice to see everybody playing nice and having a tough debate about the issue.

You're trying to debate btgorman as much as Maher tried to debate Milo.

AKA not at all.

 

[Sianos]

Do people realize that the whole alt-right terminology, whilst initially used by the alt-right to differentiate themselves from the "cuckservatives" who would never "go far enough" on social conservative "issues", was adopted by the left to give the supposedly more reasonable conservatives cover? I agree with the principle that you should be careful with who you call a nazi - for instance, you shouldn't call people who are just for lower taxes and less regulation but have empathy for people of other races nazis - but we should call the disgusting contingent that has taken over the Republican party what it is: it's what they'd want, only with some actual nuance as well. It's more nuanced different from yelling about RADICAL ***ISLAMIC*** TERRORISM because we're instead trying to differentiate the moderates from the radical contingent without trying to connotatively associate the moderates in with the filth. Yet we still call out terrorist filth as terrorist filth! Meanwhile, we have to pretend that white nationalists and neo nazis are just as reasonable as the moderate fiscal conservatives.

How about this: every time someone says that Milo and his ilk aren't obvious white nationalists and nazis - the "lol just joking, so edgy" defense doesn't give infinite plausible deniability, especially when one repeatedly espouses their rhetoric - the entire right wing gets to be lumped into their category. Since apparently Milo is just another conservative, that must mean that the average conservative is approximate to Milo.

First you have to name it correctly
Then you have to apply that name very specifically
Then you have to be judicious as to how often you apply that name despite using it correctly and specifically
Then you have to give it equal time
Then you have to debate it
Then you have to be rational and well behaved while debating it.
Then you have to attempt to find that common ground.
Then you have to crawl out onto that ground first
Then you have to stand there open and trusting, well behaved and rational.
And then you get cancer, become sick, and die.

Because what you're asking people to rationally debate is cancer.

Which leads to the "logical" conclusion, stated multiple times in multiple ways throughout the course of this thread, that if you can't talk your way out of cancer, maybe you just deserve to get it. Maybe cancer isn't really that bad if you couldn't figure how to stop it with your well chosen, politely delivered, patient and well-mannered arguments against it. Maybe you're just too irrational and easily distracted and misguided to successfully prevent letting cancer take over your body. Guess you're not as smart and righteous as you think you are, huh.

I know the phrase "privilege" almost automatically causes knees to jerk and eyes to roll back, but that's what a lot of this is, really. A lot of people shrugging off the slow-motion normalization of fascist white nationalist authoritarianism, because its immediate effects can be easily shrugged off when you're convinced it's not really a threat, when it's just dumb jokes (that are also kinda funny, really, right? Shit is so absurd! haha!), when it's chained to a specific era of history that can't possibly circle back around because when the fuck does history do that, right? So why not let that stuff get put on TV. Why not let it get presented as if its proponents give the slightest inkling of a shit about good faith debate. Someone will be smart enough to talk people out of their exposure to cancerous material, right? And if not, then I guess they weren't as smart as they thought they were, huh. Serves 'em right.

Serves 'em right.

This is a good post written with great potency. Amen.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

That Milo dude came off as an ignorant provocateur.

I don't get why you all are up in arms about this guy. He's a loud mouth bag of shit.

...

I also agree with Milo on the issue of restricting transgender men's access to women's bathrooms. I get that it's a restrictions of rights on some people, but don't you also get that I see it as a reduction of safety for little girls? If you disagree, then I'm happy that you've been blessed with a sheltered life. But from my experience, there's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators.

...

I mean, this keeps happening in this thread. People walking in, confused as to why bad faith white supremacists being given free, easy access to mass-media megaphones is so disturbing while almost in the same breath (in what they must honestly percieve as a magnanimous display of olive branching) admitting "It's not as if the white supremacist didn't make a few good points, c'mon."

Stand still and catch cancer, guys.

Definitely dont' try to combat it in any other way but patient, rational, quiet, steady conversation.
Don't excise it first.
Don't isolate it.
Either you calmly talk it out of growing, or your pretentious ass deserves to catch it.
Not so smart now, are you.