Head of Vengarl
Banned
Case in point: when Christopher Hitchens interviewed a white nationalist:
Christopher Hitchens VS John And Tom Metzger
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Milo Yiannopoulos is Going on Real Time with Bill Maher
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Case in point: when Christopher Hitchens interviewed a white nationalist:
Christopher Hitchens VS John And Tom Metzger
Abinash117
Member
I think it is something that people should consider when debating far-right people. The best strategy for a typical person is to not debate, because people are extremely bad at it and more likely to agree to disagree which in my opinion doesn't solve anything at all.
I think a fundamentally mistake that liberals do is expect everyone to play by the rules and be rational. The problem is that Milo doesn't and refuse to do it. He can lie and state falsehoods and he can get away with it unless you directly challenge it, even if you know it is ridiculous statement he made.In addition, a person doesn't have evidence on hand at the time of debate, so if you can't cite evidence, fact check( perhaps that is not effective either, because they don't care about facts), and/or can't come up with a counter argument to the ridiculous statement he got away with it.
However, it could be that once you take them seriously. You already legitimatize them and gave them a platform. That is exactly what they want and they probably know that you won't go hard on them because you would want to be reasonable.
Comparing him to Hitchens, calling trans people weirdos and calling the treatment of Leslie Jones overblown. Yeah, Maher did a great fucking job right here. Jesus, this is just infuriating. Fuck Maher. Anyone that thinks having this obnoxious toxic cunt on was helpful in any way is either dumb as hell or has their head too far up their privileged asses.
Goddammit, I'd say the only good thing about this episode is that it's great evidence for not inviting nazi scum like Milo but we all know the people in support of his invitation won't be convinced. At least we got Wilmore tell him to go fuck himself. That's something I guess.
Goddammit, I'd say the only good thing about this episode is that it's great evidence for not inviting nazi scum like Milo but we all know the people in support of his invitation won't be convinced. At least we got Wilmore tell him to go fuck himself. That's something I guess.
Thank you so much for being an example of the harm of giving people like Milo a platform.
Just as I said earlier, you guys can laugh at Milo all you want, this poster I have quoted is the perfect example of the type of person who would be susceptible to Milo's bullshit AND his bullshit sex crime statists.
Milo is not a joke.
Exactly. He keeps saying "we need to have a debate" and then he doesn't even fucking debate this shit and instead wags his finger moralizing others.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I just love the folks that always say "give them a platform" and "debate these toxic humans", seem more inclined to bitch and moan instead of actually practicing what they preach. You want to set that person straight? Then do it, instead of complaining about how others react to offensive nonsense.
I'm going to say this with as much restraint as I can muster - go fuck yourself you bigoted arsehole. People shouldn't be treated poorly and further ostracised because you uncritically swallow bullshit propaganda and spew it everywhere.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
Wow! You seriously have no clue.
Can you claim to never having been the victim of sexual predator inside a bathroom? If you can, good for you! Because I can't.
Nice dogpile we have going on here.
I mean that guy you quoted is clearly an idiot, or deeply, deeply ignorant. Your point point stands, however.
Also,y our other post was a great summary of my feelings on this.
Then you should know that laws don't stop those people.
Are you for the Muslim ban, too?
Yup. Because the gendered bathrooms now have done a spectacular job of protecting women and girls from rape and molestation with the magical shield that stops people dressed as men from entering. Now, like in the past, we will have men dressing up in womens clothes just to fool people and get to their prey! It happened in the past, IT CAN HAPPEN AGAIN.
legacyzero
Banned
You're right. And I did.
Yes. He's clearly wrong. Tell him how wrong he is. Not that goddamn hard.
Strawman, strawman, strawman.
He had an opinion on a serious personal rights issue (albeit a shitty, uninformed one) Call him out on it!
Sounds to me he's been around some heavy conservative talking points lol
Ok then, maybe try telling him that? I dunno. Again, it aint that hard. I dont see you trying to convince him otherwise. And I think that's our problem lately. You aint gonna see progress when shout people down and insult them, instead of helping them understand, and assuming they're unable to change opinion. That's not how this works.
I edited my post. It's there.
Read the post again. Jesus, ya'll are fucking savage in here. Acting like I'm part of the problem or something. IM ON YOUR FUCKING SIDE. But my opinion is, ya'll aint going to accomplish shit by vilifying every mother fucker that has even the slightest difference of opinion.
HELP THEM UNDERSTAND FFS. If they aren't willing to see your point of view, THEN you turn the heat up on them.
You actually are doubling down on this?
Are you a woman?
Were you in a woman's restroom?
Were you molested by a transwoman?
If so, you're still fucking wrong, but I can see why.
If not, see above.
(Above being: Go fuck yourself)
Gentleman Jack
Member
No, don't even. You just asserted it's okay to block people from taking a crap based on nothing more than a very bad, already discredited assumption that transgender folk are a threat to other people in the bathroom, as if being transgendered makes you more likely to be a sexual predator. You offered no evidence of your claim, you just dropped it in here and claimed people who didn't agree with it were just sheltered. Don't even try to sea lion your way out of this one.
radios shipping overview
Member
A lot of us recognized that Trump is a loudmouthed bag of shit. Not enough of us did, unfortunately. People tend to get excited and feel validated by loudmouthed bags of shit who "tell it like it is" and enable hatred and bigotry.
This isn't the point, though. Laws are already in place for this, transgender women aren't men pretending to be women to get access to bathrooms. They're women who simply want to go to the bathroom that matches their gender.
The mistake you're making is assuming every disgusting position is worthy of reasoned debate and discussion, and that the people holding those positions can be turned around with an impassioned speech or having someone point out the fallacies in the bigoted shit they just said.
Thinking that way can make you feel smart and impartial and high minded, but it's really something that I'm glad to have grown out of. Just telling certain people to fuck off, go suck an egg, etc. is cathartic and also wastes less time.
Hey, newsflash. It's already illegal to stalk/harass/molest people in bathrooms, especially children. Transgender women do not do that. There is no evidence of it. You're essentially banning regular-ass people from using a basic fucking facility because you're scared of something that doesn't happen. You know what does happen? Transgender women who are forced to use men's restrooms getting bullied, stalked, raped, or otherwise harassed by insecure men. So who's the real vulnerable person in this scenario?
Do people live in this alternate reality where people have their gender checked by an official when they go to the bathroom? If a predator wants to go into a bathroom, there is nothing stopping them right now and there would be continue nothing stopping them if rule banning transgender people from going to the bathroom of their gender was put in place. At least be open with your bigotry instead of trying to hide behind faux concerns.
garbage opinion and you're sort of a garbage bigot
Yup. Because the gendered bathrooms now have done a spectacular job of protecting women and girls from rape and molestation with the magical shield that stops people dressed as men from entering. Now, like in the past, we will have men dressing up in womens clothes just to fool people and get to their prey! It happened in the past, IT CAN HAPPEN AGAIN.
👏👏👏👏
If somebody wants to fucking rape no bloody sex restriction on the front of any restroom will keep them from attempting this crime.
There's a lot of fucked up men out there who are predators who attack little boys too. We should probably just ban everyone with a penis from public bathrooms./s
Why are you targeting transgender people with an oddly specific fear of heterosexual pedophiles? It's got nothing tobdo with being "sheltered". You're just justifying harming a group of people because you are ignorant on the subjects of transgender issues AND sexual abuse. Sheltered people tend to go the conservative direction on the bathroom issue.
You sure as fuck aren't. Instead of practicing what you preach and debating the person you ostensibly think is wrong while the rest of us handle the situation the way we see fit, you're over here moralizing to the people against stripping others of their rights.
You are everything wrong with the left. You are the problem.
legacyzero
Banned
Try, or do not try. And I see a whole lot of do not try. The failure here is your assumption that people cannot be swayed. And when you treat people like that, they'll "go fuck themselves" in the voting booth, give us inaccurate polling data, and give us Trump's America. There's literally no progress there. Actually, decades worth of back-stepping. You're not doing any good.
Can we as human beings all enact a collective rule that the people who advocate for debate with neo nazis are put on the bench when it comes time to actually "debate" them?
To push so hard for a neo nazi to be given a platform to debate with you... and then to lose so hard against them is unacceptable . Not even just getting gish galloped or letting the opponent frame their argument in an undesirable way - losing in that way is forgivable - but to be so unprepared that the neo nazi can just spread well-documented falsehoods with no reproach?! Unforgivable. If someone begs to "debate" a nazi and then are immediately eviscerated by said nazi, congratulations to them on helping write some alt-right propoganda! What a helpful ally they've been!
Pretty much everything in your stance turned out to be wrong. Maher didn't 'skewer' anyone, nothing got exposed and the only thing that happened was Milo got a little more exposure and probably gained a few more fans - or at least a way to get connect with people which in turn helps normalize their presence.
I mean, really, you don't think that they are aware that folks like you are inclined to find 'middle ground' with them on stuff like the so called 'liberal outrage'?
The Wilmore thing is great as being a little more cathartic for those of us who know what a shitstain Milo is, but other than that it's pointless. Nobody inclined to agree with Milo is turned away from that. Hell, the fact that it came from a black man probably pushed their support even more.
i understand the type of dialogue you think you want, and that you think it will make a difference. But that doesn't happen on 15 minute bursts on TV. Especially when the host is also inclined to care more about being concerned with 'liberal outrage'. And also especially when people like Milo aren't really interested at all with debate, facts or reasoning. Its is not and was never going to happen.
And they know that. And they use it to their advantage. And people keep playing their game.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I dunno, maybe(big maybe) that person can be turned around on this, but at this point, after spending so much time on this last year, I'm sure as shit not going to be the one to put in that effort again trying combat the SAME OLD RHETORIC, just to see their minds not change in the slightest. It's like, we're still doing this? It's frustrating.
But if someone isn't frustrated, go for it, but don't complain about those fed up about it.
DirgeExtinction
Member
I knew Maher wasn't going to do shit with Milo. I've only seen his show once, but that one time he brushed off cultural appropriation as something that isn't bad. Once he said that, I tuned out.
legacyzero
Banned
LMAO ok. I literally just responded to him in the SAME POST you quoted. Fuck outta here. Everything that's wrong with the left is what lost us the election. I'm not "Moralizing" anything here. Dont you fucking accuse me of saying his opinion is acceptable because then I'll be telling you to fuck off with that.
Just another day of coddling and making excuses for white supremacists under the guise of tolerance and liberalism.
The guy called people who disagreed with him "sheltered", which is laughably stupid and insulting. Why are you moralizing and tone policing the responses?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
There's absolutely NOTHING to discuss about that sort of ignorance, bigotry, and transphobia.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
No, no, don't do that, we need a debate to settle this. You lose otherwise.
Ether_Snake
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Milo played Maher and co. all the way. He came on the show and made himself look completely inoffensive and self-depreciating. But people will catch on a few things he said, and look him up, and be convinced by his various recorded interviews on youtube.
plagiarize
Banned
Do you want to make yourself feel better, or do you want to stop this asshole?
You've got to tailor your approach to these people to whatever works best against them. You don't handle trolls the same way you handle Nazis. That isn't letting one off the hook.
Both are dangerous. If one attack works on a Nazi, but only gives the troll more and more of a platform, maybe don't use that attack on the troll? Because surely the goal is to stop the fucking troll? Not get him on national television to spout his bullshit.
Efforts to stop this troll haven't worked so far, and almost certainly have played into his hands. So stop.
If the way you are trying to stop him reaching his audience is just giving him a bigger and bigger audience, you are only making it worse. Open your goddamn eyes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
People can be swayed. It's a lot easier to sway them when you're not constantly letting them be exposed and/or exposing themselves to the low level (or sometimes turnt way the fuck up) radiation of normalized white supremacy via mainstream outlets.
Now the argument here seems to always butt up against what I was talking about earlier - this fucking crazy misconception that the only way to neutralize that normalization is to calmly counterpoint its idiocy on a mainstream outlet while it's still on camera and getting equal time to speak.
Fascist White Nationalism does not need to be on TV in order for you to sway people against it.
And if your only argument for letting it hold that equal airtime is that "well, you're being unfair to Fascist White Nationalism if you don't" then I guess I just...
I mean, what the fuck is wrong with being unfair to Fascist White Nationalism? How is this a stance that people can look at negatively?
Our racist-ass country FOUGHT A WAR TO STOP IT in the 1940s.
It's 70+ years later and you're arguing that it's unfair to speak against it unless it's provided equal airtime on TV to make its own case?
C'mon.
I saw your fucking post before you edited it. Your first instinct was to fucking hell at the people unwilling to tolerate his intolerance instead of actually addressing his intolerance. You had to fucking go back and edit it in as an afterthought. That's the fucking definition of moralizing.
Your posts aren't worth shit and I've suspected that for a while. Don't bother responding, I ain't wasting another minute on you.
I want to stop him from exposing another woman, or immigrant, or whoever he decides to set his sights on next and ruining their lives. He has a fucking platform already, I'm trying to protect his future victims!
The part where Milo spouted transphobic shit and Maher agreed with him, for starters.
Apart from the fact that Milo got on at all.
When I was a teenager, my friend was abused in the bathroom by a man. Had nothing to do with any of this.
Edit: I see they were banned.
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