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Milo Yiannopoulos is Going on Real Time with Bill Maher
- Thread starter Lime
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Because when he's on, he on. It's just that when he's off, he tends to go way the fuck off
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Because he's the exact target audience.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Maher and people who agree with him believe the way to defeating fascism is to sit down and try to change the persons mind and heart.
These people are a lot like the German Left in the 1930s.
The whole world saw how that worked.
These people are a lot like the German Left in the 1930s.
The whole world saw how that worked.
GutsOfThor
Member
Exactly how I feel. It's like there is no middle ground lol. He's either on point or way the fuck off base.
But hey! Maybe it'll work this time!
If you listen, he actually said, I'm not familiar with those statistics.
yeah quite the fucking doormat. he has little sympathy from me
The whole world is in a very different place now though.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Would they also sit down with non violent boko haram/isis supporters that never committed crimes but have arguments for sharia law?
Just a rhetorical question, I know the answer since most of them will be muslim and brown and hate speech is like gun laws, only for straight white christians mostly.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Not in any way that refutes my point.
You don't think this tactic has been used by literally every minority group in the US? To the US? And have gotten jackshit for it?
That Native Americans haven't done this, and had their targets turn their backs on deals?
That African Americans haven't done this even to liberal/democrats, and gotten only partially what they wanted at best? A complete reversal at worst?
This game plan does not work. Figure out a better one for the world's sake. And it may stepping up and taking the fight to them.
Autumn Wind
Member
His stand-up shows are great. He does 90 minutes usually, no opening act, and starts usually 5 minutes from the time on the ticket.
Sure it does. Public discourse has totally changed since then and is a point I see being brought up very little to the point that I feel it's ignored, even though it's incredibly important in communication theory.
Well, something that these groups lack is an Opinion Leader. If we look at LGBT rights for example, we had Stonewall, but can we at any point in LGBT rights history point to an individual and say, "There's our Opinion Leader." We can't, and therein lays a significant reason as to why LGBT rights have moved at a glacier's pace. The movements happening today are ineffective because of the lack of an Opinion Leader.
Fucking DISMANTLED, holy shit Maher went IN.
Black rights have oved at a glacier's pace, and we've had several opinion leaders throughout history.
Can you name one since Dr. King's death? Because I can't and it's been 50 years since he passed.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
You know what's really funny?
Many Black thought leaders are LGBT thought leaders too IMO.
Baldwin, Rustin, Mock, Cox, Mckession, the founders of BLM and numerous chapter leaders.
Most of them aren't brought up as such though.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
That's on you bruh. There were many before his time, and have been many after.
GAF A60-Rim A
Banned
Yep. He was indeed woefully unprepared.
I hadn't planned on watching it, so I'll just use this to reinforce that. My first encounter with this guy was some ABC special a little while ago. "Repulsive troll" was what I gathered from him and I definitely have no interest in hearing any more that he has to say....on anything.
I used to watch this show, Bill would happily dress down a conservative if he thought they were making stuff up, which they did on his show a lot. He knew they did so would pretty much let nothing go.
This episode went pretty much how I thought it would, because Bill hates activists who seek to silence hate. He's a "free speech always" guy and has been complaining about those darn college kids for a few years, so of course Milo was right up his alley. Oh and that transgender assault thing? They are involved in a lot of sexual assaults. As the victims.
For what's it's worth, I don't think MY is a nazi. I do think he's supremacist, a bigot, very misogynistic, and pretty darn comfortable with a lot of the goals of a modern Nazi
RustyNails
Member
For those who missed it, I'll repeat again: In overtime segment, Maher praises Milo by saying he reminds him of Christopher Hitchens if only he stopped his antagonizing. Giving him career hints on how to become "better". Now I dislike Hitchens and the new atheist movement, but it simply goes to show that Bill Maher does feel that Milo can reach his idol's status. That's how big of a shitshow this is. The over time segment can be watched here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rG49EKEqRdc
From a media theory standpoint, I completely disagree; these aren't people that were in the mainstream and didn't prove to have tons of leverage toward the mass public, like Dr. King or someone like Thomas Paine did back in colonial America. Opinion Leaders that really matter in history aren't dime a dozen.
Yeah, it's Bill being lazy. I think he was grossly underprepared for the transgender issues, but people flipping out that he enables him and had a bromance... Come on.
This is like, playing directing into the conservative narrative that liberals equal outrage culture. I think the more we compare people to Nazis the less value that holds and downplays what Hitler and the Third Reich actually did and what his ultimate goal actually was. Knowing what my great grandparents went through during the Holocaust, I think it's pretty fucked up people throw out that comparison so whimsically. But yes, I agree, Milo's a fucking jackass and has no redeeming qualities in his ideology.
that's extremely insulting to hitchens
theignoramus
Member
Dr. King "reached out" to the White public, was hated by them, undermined by the federal government, and shot by a White supremacist. What are you even talking about?
travisbickle
Member
People do realise Christopher Hitchens has an obnoxious religious brother Peter Hitchens.
EatinOlives
Member
The only people exposed as goddamn idiots is the "free speech no matter what!!" crowd.
George Washington
Member
Mad respect for Larry Wilmore.
Jesse Jackson, this dude named "Barack Obama"...
Rimon-hanit
Member
Meh, the only thing bad about this was how boring this was.
"Do we agree on this issue, yes, haha great"
"Do we disagree on this, no, haha o.k pass"
"Do we agree on this issue, yes, haha great"
"Do we disagree on this, no, haha o.k pass"
I get finding him funny, but why do people take him seriously as some great political thinker?
plagiarize
Banned
This continues to amuse me every time.
plagiarize
Banned
At some point people happy about the violent protest are going to realize that shit doesn't work against a troll. When it's literally the marketing strategy to drum up hype for his next appearance you'd think it would start to sink in.
And I feel like I have to write a goddamn disclaimer on every post in this thread reminding people that I am only saying we need to handle this one specific individual differently to how we have been, and that I am completely on board with seeing Richard Spencer get punched.
I'm going to stay away from this thread from now on. It wasn't my intention to see a bunch of people get banned yesterday when I was trying to get through to them.
As you said, public discourse is completely different now. Martin Luther King Jr, if he had just started his activism this generation would not have been able to reach the same audience(imo). He's dead so, they can manipulate what he actually stood for and people can pretend that they would have supported him while decrying BLM, which is doing civil rights work.
Look at how civil rights activists from that time period are treated now. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are branded as the real problem in the Black community because we are supposedly brainwashed and monolithic entity that listens to the whims of those two Black civil rights activists. John Lewis gets attacked by Trump and other people. Those veterans are not the real problem but their voice as been manipulated as the true agitators, rather than white supremacy.
Muhammad Ali was whitewashed literally the day he died. Look at opinion leaders today, such as Deray or Shaun King, completely debased. One Deray is gay so there are ton of issues with homophobia to unpack with that and Shaun King was smeared as not really being Black and a faker.
In this type of climate, a singular leader isn't viable in a lot of cases. The entire media structure is different as well. And I also think you can't weigh civil rights progressing slowly on the marginalized groups themselves. They progress slowly due to bigots or those who can't be bothered to stand up for civil rights because they aren't currently losing anything.
EDIT:
Lol, this is a great example of how not platforming a person works.
theignoramus
Member
And those men arent even especially radical in their thinking either. The militant, revolutionary Black leadership was jailed, expelled from America, murdered or blacklisted from mainstream discourse.
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but it bares repeating, those 'stats' Milo was referring to of trans people disproportionately being involved in sex crimes... is as victims, NOT perpetrators. In fact, in the past 35 years, only one case of an alleged trans person attacking someone in a restroom has been reported anywhere in the entire world.
but y'know... *shrugs*
but y'know... *shrugs*
They really aren't, and yeah, we still have Black Panthers in prison.
And for people asking where are Black leaders. We still have Angela Davis, Toni Morrison (who's birthday was yesterday), Bell Hooks and Kathleen Cleaver. Black women. Trans women like Laverne Cox, daring to try to be so visible.
They are there, so for people asking where are they or how to we dismantle certain things read Toni Morrison and others I mentioned or just watch a few clips of her on youtube. People are out there, and if a person doesn't notice, then it's on them.
And I think another good introduction into this, and maybe it'll be a little easier is Jane Elliott. A staunch anti-racist who has done a lot of her work for free. Gloria Steinem, who works with Black women to promote intersectional feminism.
Don'tBeWeird
Member
MaherShrug.gif
airmangataosenai
Member
Something I was thinking about earlier, has he ever actually been seen in public dating another man? He talks about having a boyfriend but I can't find anything on this person.
Muffin1611
Banned
Worse than the shrug was when Milo said
and Maher answered with
Really only confirms my opinion that Milo shouldn't have been on the show.
If you're not prepared to refute the bullshit he says, then don't have him on in the first place.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Predictably, Maher let Milo run rampant on his show because he agrees with him on two pet issues: "free speech" (even though the government isn't involved at all...) and religion.
I don't know if I *totally* agree that people like him can't be shut down and can only benefit from public appearances. I totally get not wanting to give him a venue, but I think it is possible to shut him down. However, even Wilmore missed the mark slightly.
The fact is, people like Milo thrive on getting under people's skin. When you tell someone like him to "go fuck yourself," he feels like he's won. He even admits to getting off on it, and claims a victory because, "TRIGGERED!!!" He can laugh and throw out his "liberal outrage" line, and those inclined to agree with him will just assume that the liberal doesn't have an actual rebuttal, whether true or not.
It's also hard to use his hypocrisy against him because he has zero fucking shame. He'll throw gays under the bus and admit he's a hypocrit when it comes to religion. You can point out that this shows a huge amount of intellectual dishonesty, but he'll just say "humans are hypocritical" and try to sidestep it.
He also does the Gish Gallup, throwing out so much bullshit at once and talking over people in order to dominate the conversation. This was how he rolled over Maher (though he didn't put up any real fight, because they're not his pet issues.) Perfect example was the trans people involved in sex crimes bit. You need to respond by:
1) Telling him to keep quiet because it's your time to respond. He often will talk over people when they're trying to carefully address his "points," bringing attention to himself and his shtick while distracting from the actual issue.
2) Pointing out that he gave no citation for his "undisputed" statistic of trans people perpetrating sex crimes, and that the opposite is actually true. Again, he brings up things and claims "fact" often, when he has zero claim to the word. The same goes for the "I only want to protect women and children!" line. This is another conservative bogeyman with zero grounding in reality. It's a made-up scenario that has almost no occurrences in reality. It's used to frame the majority as victims when in reality it's trans people that are attacked and have their rights continually marginalized.
Plus, by his own "logic," gay people shouldn't be allowed in public washrooms either. But, again, pointing out his hypocrisy will be met with a hand wave.
4) Also point out that the DSM-5 correctly reflect modern psychology's knowledge on transgenderism. "Gender dysphoria" is no longer a thing, just like being gay or bi is no longer seen as being a mental illness. He can deny it, but that is denying fucking fact at that point. He is literally denying an entire field's analysis of an issue of their expertise, resulting in a disgusting propagation of ignorance that is demonstrably affecting real people, not just hypothetical situations.
So it can be done, in my opinion. But you need to be prepared and willing to fight back in an effective manner, which Maher clearly was not. Hell, you can tell the audience was begging for it, because when Wilmore and the former spy pushed back at all, they roared.
But if you're just going to be a pushover and let Milo run over you because he gives you token compliments, then it's probably better you don't have him on at all.
I don't know if I *totally* agree that people like him can't be shut down and can only benefit from public appearances. I totally get not wanting to give him a venue, but I think it is possible to shut him down. However, even Wilmore missed the mark slightly.
The fact is, people like Milo thrive on getting under people's skin. When you tell someone like him to "go fuck yourself," he feels like he's won. He even admits to getting off on it, and claims a victory because, "TRIGGERED!!!" He can laugh and throw out his "liberal outrage" line, and those inclined to agree with him will just assume that the liberal doesn't have an actual rebuttal, whether true or not.
It's also hard to use his hypocrisy against him because he has zero fucking shame. He'll throw gays under the bus and admit he's a hypocrit when it comes to religion. You can point out that this shows a huge amount of intellectual dishonesty, but he'll just say "humans are hypocritical" and try to sidestep it.
He also does the Gish Gallup, throwing out so much bullshit at once and talking over people in order to dominate the conversation. This was how he rolled over Maher (though he didn't put up any real fight, because they're not his pet issues.) Perfect example was the trans people involved in sex crimes bit. You need to respond by:
1) Telling him to keep quiet because it's your time to respond. He often will talk over people when they're trying to carefully address his "points," bringing attention to himself and his shtick while distracting from the actual issue.
2) Pointing out that he gave no citation for his "undisputed" statistic of trans people perpetrating sex crimes, and that the opposite is actually true. Again, he brings up things and claims "fact" often, when he has zero claim to the word. The same goes for the "I only want to protect women and children!" line. This is another conservative bogeyman with zero grounding in reality. It's a made-up scenario that has almost no occurrences in reality. It's used to frame the majority as victims when in reality it's trans people that are attacked and have their rights continually marginalized.
Plus, by his own "logic," gay people shouldn't be allowed in public washrooms either. But, again, pointing out his hypocrisy will be met with a hand wave.
4) Also point out that the DSM-5 correctly reflect modern psychology's knowledge on transgenderism. "Gender dysphoria" is no longer a thing, just like being gay or bi is no longer seen as being a mental illness. He can deny it, but that is denying fucking fact at that point. He is literally denying an entire field's analysis of an issue of their expertise, resulting in a disgusting propagation of ignorance that is demonstrably affecting real people, not just hypothetical situations.
So it can be done, in my opinion. But you need to be prepared and willing to fight back in an effective manner, which Maher clearly was not. Hell, you can tell the audience was begging for it, because when Wilmore and the former spy pushed back at all, they roared.
But if you're just going to be a pushover and let Milo run over you because he gives you token compliments, then it's probably better you don't have him on at all.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Seeing both clips online and my takeaway is that Milo suffers from some kind of self-hatred. He gets off on people hating him. It's as if he has made himself the epitome of his own loathing. What's deeply disturbing about it is how well he controls the conversation. You can see someone as Maher, who has had some practice in debating nutcases, still being outwyrmed by him.
At the end of the day "making you mad" is still more important than "being right" for Milo. Which isn't how you traditionally debate someone. I can see why he find companionship with Trump. They're the same. Always projecting. Never caring if you're right as long as the other person is perceived as losing.
At the end of the day "making you mad" is still more important than "being right" for Milo. Which isn't how you traditionally debate someone. I can see why he find companionship with Trump. They're the same. Always projecting. Never caring if you're right as long as the other person is perceived as losing.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Larry Wilmore destroyed that contrarian, self-loathing fucker. We need more of these shit-talking, quick-witted comedians to counter the Milos of the world, who love to twist and project everything wrong with their own ideology onto that of others.
Man, I wish Bill Hicks and George Carlin were around today to bitch slap these motherfuckers. It would be amazing.
Man, I wish Bill Hicks and George Carlin were around today to bitch slap these motherfuckers. It would be amazing.
Dominican Power
Member
Milo wasn't saying shit on his 1v1 with Maher. Shit was a waste of time. Dude is a real life troll. I think he just hates himself.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
............What the fuck are you talking about?
Kellyanne Conway helped elect Donald Trump as president. Her being a "joke" and being ridiculed constantly on TV didn't help fight or counter that, it gave her (and Trump) free publicity and airtime that absolutely did help normalize her kind of discourse, and now thanks to that, today we have Trump as president and "alternative facts" is a thing. She's an extremely powerful and influential woman, her being a "joke" in no way lessens the impact she has had on the entire world at large.
Kellyanne Conway is possibly the worst example you could have picked (outside of Trump himself maybe) to prove your points. In fact, Conway and Trump are both proof that giving constant airtime to intellectually dishonest and toxic demagogues causes real harm to the world. Milo is no different.
theignoramus
Member
Thats real talk. Trump and foot soldiers coopting the term "fake news" is going to have a far reaching, unbelievably corrosive impact on political dialogue for the next decade because facts and truth are being devalued to an extent I havnt seen in my lifetime.
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