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[Hyperactivity]

Right, so no peeking and I'm claiming day 3 just to be safe and clear 1/2 people. Peeking I might push it to day 4 or 5 depending on the situation, and who cares if I am nked because town has my results. That's the point, I can push my luck a bit without risking town getting no info or having to search for breadcrumbs.

I agree it isn't a perfect strategy, and I think I'd only do it in smaller open or semi-open games. But I don't think it's as bad as you say. Unless scum can reliably figure out the cop on day two, it doesn't affect the game.

Scum can by day 4. It doesn't really give cops an extra day. The only time I would say it works is to cover for a REALLY bad cop, which I sort of doubt was going to be happening in this game, where 10+ posts was required and everyone played pretty well

 

[Kawl_USC]

Right, so no peeking and I'm claiming day 3 just to be safe and clear 1/2 people. Peeking I might push it to day 4 or 5 depending on the situation, and who cares if I am nked because town has my results. That's the point, I can push my luck a bit without risking town getting no info or having to search for breadcrumbs.

I agree it isn't a perfect strategy, and I think I'd only do it in smaller open or semi-open games. But I don't think it's as bad as you say. Unless scum can reliably figure out the cop on day two, it doesn't affect the game.

Yea, this is basically my thoughts on it. On a game of this size 3 cleared townies is huge late game. But i'm only pushing for the idea in games like this, matrix, or live mafia where its a much smaller and typically open set up.

 

[CzarTim]

Scum can by day 4. It doesn't really give cops an extra day. The only time I would say it works is to cover for a REALLY bad cop, which I sort of doubt was going to be happening in this game, where 10+ posts was required and everyone played pretty well

Alright then it still guarantees town gets the info if scum kill the cop night 2 or 3. So what's the risk? Worst case, scum figures it out and kills the cop around the time they would have claimed anyway.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Alright then it still guarantees town gets the info if scum kill the cop night 2 or 3. So what's the risk? Worst case, scum figures it out and kills the cop around the time they would have claimed anyway.

Because a decent cop can last past that (townies aren't narrowing the field for scum to find cop) and communicate their targets still (gut reads, feels that people make, that thing posters do where two players are doing the exact same thing but one is scum, the other is town, whenever they talk about the cop, etc.)

When have we had a cop that got nk'ed without being able to reveal his reads, in all of GAFIA history. Either the cop is forced to actually reveal in the form of a lynch, which peeking doesn't help, survives to reveal themselves with a decent amount of info, or died N1.

I thought cops getting killed before they could get their info through was a thing, but the more and more and more I think about it, it's never really happened in any of the GAFIA games ever. I thought it was a thing, and it continuously ended up never being a thing, the more I thought about it

 

[Kawl_USC]

Because a decent cop can last past that (townies aren't narrowing the field for scum to find cop) and communicate their targets still (gut reads, feels that people make, that thing posters do where two players are doing the exact same thing but one is scum, the other is town, whenever they talk about the cop, etc.)

When have we had a cop that got nk'ed without being able to reveal his reads, in all of GAFIA history. Either the cop is forced to actually reveal in the form of a lynch, which peeking doesn't help, survives to reveal themselves with a decent amount of info, or died N1.

I thought cops getting killed before they could get their info through was a thing, but the more and more and more I think about it, it's never really happened in any of the GAFIA games ever. I thought it was a thing, and it continuously ended up never being a thing, the more I thought about it

These posts feel like to me you are only looking at the bad for peeking and disregarding all the bad for a non peeking cop.

For example, in this case the cop is prevented from playing the game and having thoughts on players they haven't read. Their gut reads have to be limited to those they have investigated or else the breadcrumb is unclear.

The peek is nice in that it allows the cop to play the rest of the game unfettered.

 

[CzarTim]

Because a decent cop can last past that (townies aren't narrowing the field for scum to find cop) and communicate their targets still (gut reads, feels that people make, that thing posters do where two players are doing the exact same thing but one is scum, the other is town, whenever they talk about the cop, etc.)

When have we had a cop that got nk'ed without being able to reveal his reads, in all of GAFIA history. Either the cop is forced to actually reveal in the form of a lynch, which peeking doesn't help, survives to reveal themselves with a decent amount of info, or died N1.

I thought cops getting killed before they could get their info through was a thing, but the more and more and more I think about it, it's never really happened in any of the GAFIA games ever. I thought it was a thing, and it continuously ended up never being a thing, the more I thought about it

Star Wars

But you are also comparing a strategy suggested for small open / semi-open games to (mostly) larger closed games. I don't think it would work in a normal Gafia game.

 

[Hyperactivity]

The cop really only early claims if there is a high chance of him getting nk'ed. Sure, if we decided not to peek, and Kawl was the cop, he not claiming on, say, day 2, would've been terrible.

But a cop kawl should generally have played differently anyways. Cop L_P played really well, he doesn't get nk'ed unless scum have a big reason to fear him. You guys ended up just looking at the fact that L_P was the cop and justified it, I didn't really see anyone look at the his reads

Again, peeking only helps if cop plays bad

 

[Kawl_USC]

The cop really only early claims if there is a high chance of him getting nk'ed. Sure, if we decided not to peek, and Kawl was the cop, he not claiming on, say, day 2, would've been terrible.

But a cop kawl should generally have played differently anyways. Cop L_P played really well, he doesn't get nk'ed unless scum have a big reason to fear him. You guys ended up just looking at the fact that L_P was the cop and justified it, I didn't really see anyone look at the his reads

Again, peeking only helps if cop plays bad

I mean thats just getting into WIFOM from the scum side

it goes both ways.

 

[CzarTim]

I don't understand the difference between playing well vs not, though. Shouldn't all players play like ordinary townies every game? Why play differently with a role when that makes you stand out more?

"The cop really only early claims if there is a high chance of him getting nk'ed"

What constitutes a high chance of a nk? Most people were surprised by LP getting killed n1. How is a townie supposed to guess what the scum team is thinking or what they know?

 

[Hyperactivity]

Star Wars

But you are also comparing a strategy suggested for small open / semi-open games to (mostly) larger closed games. I don't think it would work in a normal Gafia game.

Sorry, but

A. he was lynched
B. people figured out his stuff in hindsight iirc
C. People thought he was super scummy in general for his playstyle (which was more him being blarg than cop)
D. He claimed
E. His breadcrumbs were just associated with his General playstyle until after he was lynched
F. He was blarg, that's a special case. If blarg was the cop in this game, you think he rounded peeked

Also, peeking arguably is better in larger games, where scum will pass over stuff more, more players,etc. Although more open games are also better for it

These posts feel like to me you are only looking at the bad for peeking and disregarding all the bad for a non peeking cop.

For example, in this case the cop is prevented from playing the game and having thoughts on players they haven't read. Their gut reads have to be limited to those they have investigated or else the breadcrumb is unclear.

The peek is nice in that it allows the cop to play the rest of the game unfettered.

I thought that too

but it's never been an issue in GAFIA history

 

[CzarTim]

You're right about larger games leaving more players to choose from, but it also means a much larger sample size due to the increased number of days in a game. Meaning more data for scum to use. Your argument is that peeking helps scum figure out the cop faster, and mine is that they'd figure it out around the same time the cop would claim anyway, so it's low-risk, high-reward. But that only works in shorter games when the scum team would not have enough data to get in front of the cop.

Your other argument is Gafia has never had a cop fail to pass on info, which while fair, but it doesn't mean that it can't happen. And since there is very little risk to peeking, it just seems like a non-argument. Either it helps or it's redundant.

 

[Hyperactivity]

I don't understand the difference between playing well vs not, though. Shouldn't all players play like ordinary townies every game? Why play differently with a role when that makes you stand out more?

"The cop really only early claims if there is a high chance of him getting nk'ed"

What constitutes a high chance of a nk? Most people were surprised by LP getting killed n1. How is a townie supposed to guess what the scum team is thinking or what they know?

Not really

Ordinary towbies sorta want to be nk'ed. Playing to be town read by everyone, active, etc help here, even preying to know more or be more confident about your reads than you should really be. Playing generally solid.

Town prs don't really mind if they're somewhat scum read if they have an important pr, as long as they can avoid the lynch. Kingkitty and I in love boat (kk solid, posted a decent amount, me mia) as doctors. Septimius Prome in Harry Potter.

Most common target of scum kill if all else fails will be players that generally are playing well, on upper-mid level.

Basically, a really important pr should make themselves not look like too much of a threat to scum

 

[Kawl_USC]

Not really

Ordinary towbies sorta want to be nk'ed. Playing to be town read by everyone, active, etc help here, even preying to know more or be more confident about your reads than you should really be. Playing generally solid.

Town prs don't really mind if they're somewhat scum read if they have an important pr, as long as they can avoid the lynch. Kingkitty and I in love boat (kk solid, posted a decent amount, me mia) as doctors. Septimius Prome in Harry Potter.

Most common target of scum kill if all else fails will be players that generally are playing well, on upper-mid level.

Basically, a really important pr should make themselves not look like too much of a threat to scum

In which case scum should change their strategy and hit players lying low, like they did here and hit cop. So PRs should play the same and be an active contributing poster while vanilla towns should play low lying and drawing NK's....etc etc etc

 

[Sophia]

Not really

Ordinary towbies sorta want to be nk'ed. Playing to be town read by everyone, active, etc help here, even preying to know more or be more confident about your reads than you should really be. Playing generally solid.

Town prs don't really mind if they're somewhat scum read if they have an important pr, as long as they can avoid the lynch. Kingkitty and I in love boat (kk solid, posted a decent amount, me mia) as doctors. Septimius Prome in Harry Potter.

Most common target of scum kill if all else fails will be players that generally are playing well, on upper-mid level.

Basically, a really important pr should make themselves not look like too much of a threat to scum

This was my goal this game, pretty much. Play strong enough to get read as town, but shady enough the mafia want to kill me because I might have a power role.

Reading scum chat, it worked too. =P

 

[CzarTim]

Not really

Ordinary towbies sorta want to be nk'ed. Playing to be town read by everyone, active, etc help here, even preying to know more or be more confident about your reads than you should really be. Playing generally solid.

Town prs don't really mind if they're somewhat scum read if they have an important pr, as long as they can avoid the lynch. Kingkitty and I in love boat (kk solid, posted a decent amount, me mia) as doctors. Septimius Prome in Harry Potter.

Most common target of scum kill if all else fails will be players that generally are playing well, on upper-mid level.

Basically, a really important pr should make themselves not look like too much of a threat to scum

I guess I disagree with that if only because, from a meta-stand point scum will eventually realize that townies acting scummy / lowkey = PR. Ideally you'd want to play 100% consistent across every game regardless of alignment or role.

Also, it kind of falls apart when you look at LP from this game, he fit that description to the letter and still got nk'd.

edit: get out of my head krawl

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

I sent this to batsie yesterday. LOL

I was so nervous



I didn't end up sending it cuz I was super jittery and the timer ran out :x

http://gafia.boards.net/post/43925

I was close!

 

[Kawl_USC]

get outta mah swamp, tim

 

[Hyperactivity]

You're right about larger games leaving more players to choose from, but it also means a much larger sample size due to the increased number of days in a game. Meaning more data for scum to use. Your argument is that peeking helps scum figure out the cop faster, and mine is that they'd figure it out around the same time the cop would claim anyway, so it's low-risk, high-reward. But that only works in shorter games when the scum team would not have enough data to get in front of the cop.

Your other argument is Gafia has never had a cop fail to pass on info, which while fair, but it doesn't mean that it can't happen. And since there is very little risk to peeking, it just seems like a non-argument. Either it helps or it's redundant.

there is risk to peeking

you're making cops job easier

in larger games, cops don't really claim much later. in say an 8 day game, cop is generally out day 2-6. Day 6 cop equals scum probably 100% screwed.

Smaller games, cop is out day 2-4. generally the same.

If anything, because larger games have more of those really low activity players, and less or about the same number of more active/solid players.

If a cop targets a lower activity player in a big game, that player has a better chance of getting to the endgame than in a game like this, where mid-season causing more dedicated players, less top heavy games means that those lower end players are so much more scrutinized. And the floor on those players is lower too. There was really anyone on this game you wouldn't say was at least lower-medium range of posting in this game.

The main issue with larger games is the bandwagonong that happens with people's top town and scum reads, what with the predictable

Top Town:
1) One of the highly active players
2) Solid player that everyone is town reading. There are other players playing similarly, but this one became the town read one. Can take #1 spot
3) Wild-card: #gut read on a lower activity player that seems to be "trying", a controversial read on a scum read player, or just generally the player you actually looked into

Top Scum:
1) Player people are scum reading
2) same as #1

the reasons from the first 2 range from:
bad feeling
seems to purposely not post, stay in a low activity range but on purpose
worried about player, plays in middle, tries to not make people notice
player posts a lot, overwhelming, controlling conversation
trust one of my town reads

3) Put some effort, analyses post, somewhat out of field with this pick

So the whole peeking your top town fails there.

 

[Hyperactivity]

In which case scum should change their strategy and hit players lying low, like they did here and hit cop. So PRs should play the same and be an active contributing poster while vanilla towns should play low lying and drawing NK's....etc etc etc

I guess I disagree with that if only because, from a meta-stand point scum will eventually realize that townies acting scummy / lowkey = PR. Ideally you'd want to play 100% consistent across every game regardless of alignment or role.

Also, it kind of falls apart when you look at LP from this game, he fit that description to the letter and still got nk'd.

edit: get out of my head krawl

True to an extent, BUT:

1) Players with lower activities often do so because they are less enthusiastic, have an ordinary role

2) Compare the benefits:
A. Towny cop get nk'ed
B. Scummy cop is nk'ed

If the scum knows who the cop is, yeah, they'll go for him every time. But in general, going for more active players helps in that more people that might get lynched are left, you have an easier time controlling the conversation, and prs will still likely be on the higher activity area

Scum going for every single lower activity or scum read player, even if all of them were prs, is a losing proposition. The whole reason is keeping them alive is because they can be lynched

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I guess I disagree with that if only because, from a meta-stand point scum will eventually realize that townies acting scummy / lowkey = PR. Ideally you'd want to play 100% consistent across every game regardless of alignment or role.

Also, it kind of falls apart when you look at LP from this game, he fit that description to the letter and still got nk'd.

edit: get out of my head krawl

bolded part is me. i cant do it any other way anyway .___.;;;

thank you retro for opening the chats!!

and for everyone who had said i played well this game, much grateful also, but as i have said, i built all of my suss on the back of kawl's strat so ...

also, also, i wanna do a little thingy that i usually do at the end of each game so here it is:

kawl - i have been looking forward forever to play with kawl. he always seems so fun and engaged and here i had the awesome chance to see a townleader kawl i love that his playstyle is a mix of brain and reads <3 my mvp for the game.

cabot - i didn't quite get cabot's playstyle in this game but i have to acknowledge that he knows how to play in that zone where he's saying that he's "sort of" townie. it's a quite tricky position to sell but he did it well.

hyperactivity - i already told hyper that his playstyle in mini reminds me of the old hyper :> he's super engaged, passionate and very fun :> after seeing him dropped out of 6 games in a row previously, i was happy to see him returned to his old playstyle!

sophia - miss detective robot! i like her style a lot :> she questions and pursues her suspicions well and highlights details that others might have missed. she's also not nk shy and i think that's a helpful attitude to have as an ordinary townie. i really enjoyed playing with sophsoph~

lone_prodiboo - love LOVE boo. one of my old time favourites. boo is never a high posters, but he never fails to actually be in the game. his D1 scum picks here were amazing (on hindsight)... too bad he got nked on N1 cuz i have been wanting to play with him but i didn't get to do so much here. <3 boo

terrabyte - i hope i wasn't too harsh on terra ;__; terra is one of the old timers that always is a pleasure to spectate. he is usually a low poster, by style, so how he was in this game wasn't surprising. i hope i will get another chance to play with terra again one day, but probably not in a 24 hours phases game.... which though was advertised as such before we signed up, probably doesnt actually suit terra nicely.

sorian - sorian is one of the more intimidating players for me. i think he can play town, neutral or scum REALLY well. his posts are well reasoned and friendly and yet when he is town, he will actively hunt for scum relentlessly. in the past, sorian has not been allowed to live through to the end game when he is town by scum. one of the few players who can initiate and lead a lynch train. awesome skillz. i am happy to get to play with sorian, though he came in at an awkward stage, he really made the best out of the situation, i think.

yonyon - another player who i had been looking forward to play with. yonyon was very hard to read for me. but he was really fun to play with. a lot of his observations were thought provoking. and he's not shy to headbutt publicly with people, either, which was quite helpful in seeing what comes out from the shook trees. i think i can learn a lot from how yonyon play :>

melonrabbit - omg i enjoyed headbutting with melon a lot XD she's not a delicate flower <3 and i liked that commitment and drive. i really respect her playstyle and would love to see a lot more from melonrabbit in GAFia <3 one of the top most enjoyable players for me in this game!

catvoca - didn't last very long but he was able to convince me that he was townie-ish in D1. that's quite a skill :> i hope to play again with catvoca one day! i think he's underrated :>

fireblend - febe brought the lil funnies and friendly posts to the game. i like how febe played here. he was helpful and active though on the low side. he also had an air of someone who was enjoying himself and that usually helps the morale of any games. really liked febe in mini <3

skyodin - sky is a fun player to play with :> i sure would like to play with him again. he comes across sincere and trying to me and one that was always fighting on his faction's side. there's some rooms for improvements on sky's skills, specially maybe on delivering reads and not mixing people up and stuff, but i think he will only grow better and better with each game.

splinter - is a natural born scum who is a delight when he is town. splinter is a great one to have your back if he is on your side. i get this feeling that no one will ever be above suspicion for him when he's townie and that's something that can blindside a few others. strong and fun player <3

stanleypalmtree - seruru added levity and good spirits to this game with his posts. he barrrrrreeeeeeeeeely made the requirements, i think. 11 posts d1 and d2, and only 10 d3, but i really enjoyed his contributions he's always happy to entertain theories and would ask questions so that he can understand where others are coming from. which in return, help generate discussions even if he himself was hardly posting XD. i also enjoyed having someone else playing from my time zone \o/




i guess all in all i just wanna said that it wasn't a yeenz thing, it was a teamwork thing and you all made this a very enjoyable ride for me

so thank you for everyone who participated and thank you again to batsie and timeaisis for hosting this <3

it was a sequel to heist (in my mind) and this time, and the townies strike back!

<3 y'all

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

http://gafia.boards.net/post/43925

I was close!

lol omg, you really were, boo! XD



and now to check the spec and maf threads~ wheeeeee~

 

[Sorian]

Sorry Hyper, there really is no down side to fake peeking for town. It's only a trap if scum actually try to engage with it (cop hunting) otherwise it's just a null play but there is never a time where town should be against peeking in a semi-open/open set up with a cop.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Sorry Hyper, there really is no down side to fake peeking for town. It's only a trap if scum actually try to engage with it (cop hunting) otherwise it's just a null play but there is never a time where town should be against peeking in a semi-open/open set up with a cop.

Gonna have to see proof on this one

Mentioned this before, never got addressed though. If it's such a unanimously good decision, then there's going to be some sort of article that discuses it, or some thread where people have already thoroughly discussed the matter, and addressed the concerns people bring up with this.

Sorry for not taking the beliefs of other communities as gospel on this. Especially when they probably have a different meta than the one here (things people do here probably would get them lynched, and vice-versa)

Being pro-peek just means that you're ok with scum getting closer to the cop being a risk.

 

[cabot]

I get best shitpost right?


It made terra leave for god sake.

 

[cabot]

I was mostly frustrated this game, I enjoyed the early part and day 2 where I could be more like my usual self.


I got frustrated by Ty's strange arguments on activity and post times, felt that was almost crossing the line. Sorian subbing in wasn't my cup of tea either (sorry-an), but its over now and it was a strong town so how can I complain?

Because I can, and will.

And yes, I was being honest when I said I didn't care for deep mechanics/peeking discussion. My least enjoyable aspect of playing Mafia.

It's the one downside of these setups, since they're semi open/open, calculating this stuff is worthwhile. I just don't want to be the one to do it.

 

[Hyperactivity]

I get best shitpost right?


It made terra leave for god sake.

Nope, check scum thread (just look for around when Sorian's avatar shows up)

I was mostly frustrated this game, I enjoyed the early part and day 2 where I could be more like my usual self.


I got frustrated by Ty's strange arguments on activity and post times, felt that was almost crossing the line. Sorian subbing in wasn't my cup of tea either (sorry-an), but its over now and it was a strong town so how can I complain?

Because I can, and will.

And yes, I was being honest when I said I didn't care for deep mechanics/peeking discussion. My least enjoyable aspect of playing Mafia.

It's the one downside of these setups, since they're semi open/open, calculating this stuff is worthwhile. I just don't want to be the one to do it.

Idk, I tend to like that stuff, and like to wait to call people on bullshit.

Unless people are peddling a line of bullshit, or making claims that make 0 sense with the set-up, I'm not too good at reading people. And I'm pretty sure those reads that don't have much behind them consist of at least 50% bs and luck

 

[cabot]

You don't have to be good at reading people, but doing it certainly helps me get closer to your alignment.

Thats good you like mechanics, variety is the spice of life.

 

[Ty4on]

I was mostly frustrated this game, I enjoyed the early part and day 2 where I could be more like my usual self.


I got frustrated by Ty's strange arguments on activity and post times, felt that was almost crossing the line. Sorian subbing in wasn't my cup of tea either (sorry-an), but its over now and it was a strong town so how can I complain?

Because I can, and will.

And yes, I was being honest when I said I didn't care for deep mechanics/peeking discussion. My least enjoyable aspect of playing Mafia.

It's the one downside of these setups, since they're semi open/open, calculating this stuff is worthwhile. I just don't want to be the one to do it.

I'm sorry, I knew I was skating the line and should've dropped it or not presented it as a lie. It reminded me so much it every discussion I "missed" as scum.

At least balance in the universe was restored when I ended up scum reading you.

 

[cabot]

I'm sorry, I knew I was skating the line and should've dropped it or not presented it as a lie. It reminded me so much it every discussion I "missed" as scum.

At least balance in the universe was restored when I ended up scum reading you.

I town read you anyway, I felt the stuff you were going for just wasn't something a scum would choose.

I was fully expecting to be lynched this day, but i was just gonna post saying that's fine since we're in a strong position and give my top scum as sorian.

 

[Ty4on]

I town read you anyway, I felt the stuff you were going for just wasn't something a scum would choose.

I was fully expecting to be lynched this day, but i was just gonna post saying that's fine since we're in a strong position and give my top scum as sorian.

I was just waiting on being lynched myself

That's why I played like I did without really defending myself. I was a bit puzzled by your passive defence and speculated that you had given up.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Gonna end up thinking this post was stupid, but gonna get it off my chest right now

He says his biggest fear is again concerning the doctor not knowing who to protect and that peeking will somehow muddy this water. First, it's not a sure thing we have a doctor (50% less likely than a cop). Secondly, He then paints a scenario where only 4 people peek and is worried that this will lead to the cop being more likely to die/made useless. However, that same situation also increases the chance of a doctor guessing the same as scum. A successful doctor protect with out a hard claim is very rare any how, but his two protest seem to run kind of counter current to me here. If you consider the implications of this 4 peek hypothetical you might also realize the additional benefits of setting up peeks by the by.

Hadn't realized everyone was supposed to peek, as you had asked for ordinaries to do it earlier.

Not a lie

Ends with a one liner that we most likely only have a one shot cop, which has since been addressed in the addendums to the peeking plan.

Yet you still seem to want to throw shade by mentioning this, even though you noted yourself that this was an addendum

One shot was addressed later, no reason to call this into question

Shows him warming up to the idea after having it clarified again. Name calling the SK here jumps out to me a bit here (only a 50% probability versus the ~70ish% of scum role blocker). I take issue with the last sentence as it's just a fact that everyone peeking increases the odds of hiding the cop as well as any other method while providing more concrete data. (Scum has a good idea that if anyone lists scum as a top town they probably aren't cop unless they see another breadcrumb hidden throughout the day, much like an incorrect peek).

Simple, I didn't understand that everyone in this scenario is supposed to peek, otherwise I wouldn't have even brought up a 4 players peeking scenario earlier

Still true. Didn't realize it at the time. Brought up SK because I hadn't looked into the chances of a roleblocker at that point. 50% still seemed pretty high tbh.

He brings up cop immediately claiming when finding town which I agree with. It is notable for being different from what he calls optimal cop start in an earlier post, but I believe this is in a scenario where everyone is peeking in which case his perceived optimal start is different.
Brings up a valid concern on how to give legitimacy to a 1 shot cops check on day 2. Which I like.
Actually read back the context of the thread and that had already been addressed by Ty. So I don't really give him much credit for this.
But continues to throw shade on peeking by decrying its value in the late game.
Which I don't like. As I feel in the late game if the cop is still alive then great peeking didn't need to come into play. Typically by the time peeking is no longer viable the cop can safely come forward and should do so to provide a cleared town list (minus god father or investigative immune SK)

I brought up my issues with the 1-shot cop claim later and then realized why it worked, that's just another case of me suddenly understanding something.

Throwing shade is not saying "of course that will happen" with regards to the cop getting found near the late game. "Of course that will happen" is sort of meant to tell everyone, HEY, cop will get found near the end anyways

Still initially disregarded ty4ons post, then understood later and posted as I was figuring it out. Sue me for typing as I think, it's easier to understand things that way

And yeah, throwing shade isn't saying of course cop will be found late game. I was saying that yeah, sure peeking isn't gonna work late game, that's not really an issue

And throwing shade on a plan isn't really much of an issue

Defends me from a vote. Says that he thinks peeking is beneficial to town (which seems a bit different from his most recent post where he says he thinks he is coming around to it and in fact he will go back and forth a few more times still I believe).

Notes that active people aren't necessarily scum. Just look at these two examples where he took an aggressive stance....and wait a minute both of those were anti town roles.

I read this as a sly post that both defends me, champions peeking, and also throws some subliminal shade at me by linking my behavior and activity with his as two non town roles. That association will remain in people's minds regardless of his defense of me up above.

A. I brought up the two examples of myself because they come to mind pretty quickly. If it helps soothe your worries over everyone suddenly thinking you're scum, I was trying to play for town's benefit in Bar, and actively trying to keep town engaged.

B. Am I supposed to just assume you're town now, and that the reason you've been acting this way is because you are only working for town's benefit? Players trying to control the conversation as scum is NOTHING new.

C. My slam on Terra for that post was because although the question of you being scum or not is there, and it brings up a WIFOM possibility, he has, or had not shown, any real evidence to give reason why he thinks you would be scum. So yes, you may very well be scum, he just doesn't have the proof to act on it. Same thing with me in HP and Bar.

In fact, say for example at Bar, the main reason I actually thought Gorlak was full of shit (even knowing he was right about me not being town) is because his reason was asinine, and everything beyond that was "I FEEL his reactions are scummy", even though at that point he probably would've taken any reaction of mine to be scummy

Same in HP. I leave, making a split second decision where there was something really wrong in Crab's claim and bus him, and come back to see myself lynched over a reason that really didn't make alot of sense.

So yeah, shoot me if I think you think I should just assume you're town. If you've been attempting to control the conversation as scum, you've done a pretty great job so far

Started that post about to full on slam terra for a vote that couldn't mean much, gave those examples because they come to mind quickly, and how should I know of you aren't the SK? Or scum? Halfway through post, I decided that his concern is legitimate, because it happens, but there isn't anything to gain from it day 1

This posts doesn't sit right worth me. Trying to organize something like this would inherently mess it up even more wrt his concerns in accidently outing the cop or screwing up when the 1 shot cop was used. Organizing details usually only helps scum and is something scum does in their little scum chat. Town plans should be generally outlined with specifics left unsaid so that scum can't disrupt them effectively.

Again, was confused to how things would work. The idea of organizing it all was brought up as an absurd possibility to counter it, meant to weaken the idea, not be taken seriously.

Was still confused about 1-shots, organizing it was my answer at that point, and I brought it up to highlight how tidiculous it is (why organize it?!)

Also, the last line is the start of these posts where hyper writes in his flip flopping mid posts. These read like a superficial attempt at showing a conflicted townie/transparency into his thought process. I don't buy it and think it's him further refusing to take a hard stance so he can back out of peeking if it seems enough of town will go that way.

Yeah, this is bullshit. Tried to find the easiest to read example.

http://outergafia.com/thread/18/mgs-mafia-name-means-battlefield?filters[]=post_created_by%3Aeq%3A8&page=3

That's MGS MAfia. I was town. Want to read through the posts (pages 3 and 4 will probably help the most), look for that same sort of "I'm putting my entire thought process into the thread sort of style?

And I've done this as scum too. And as a neutral. And every game I've been reasonably active.

I don't even know how you fake a style. Is your idea that I don't actually believe what I'm saying, that I'm secretly exaggerating my wish-washiness?

Still bs. Still something I do in every game I'm in. Still was my actual thought process at that point. And it's still REALLY REALLY hard to fake a style that isn't coming naturally to you

"That's the beauty of it"
"Well except for maybe this one thing...."
"J/K guys I know in two post before this I said it was pro town and started with that idea here, but I just think the chance of people screwing up with peeks is just too high"
"I'm not sure, is anyone else not sure? Can i manage to back out of this peeking thing without looking scummy? Please, anyone?"

Wow, it's almost like people's feeling and thoughts change, and like I suddenly thought up something, sat on it for a bit, and decided I wasn't so sure

Starting post off thinking peeking is a good idea. While trying to explain why, I come yo with a scenario and want to say how peeking helps. Then I sit, think, and decide, wait, peeking isn't helpful, it's sorta detrimental in that way

Is there anything else peeking is crappy at? Hmm, I guess this too.

Same way I became pro-peeking in the first place. I was about to respond to a post, then thought about what I was typing, and it didn't really make sense, because that situation was already addressed. Don't delete all of what I was saying, because showing my thought process shows how I got to a conclusion, so it doesn't appear sudden, and might help others thinking through things

But because peeking is such a good plan, anyone that changes from understanding it can't be thinking straight.

And yeah, waiting for another player because that's how I was originally convinced, maybe if I wait my cornerback would be addressed

Is back to arguing that he thinks bread crumbs are most effective. Except wait for the next post...



Database, database trapped inside the database...

So says as scum he usually misses breadcrumbs so what can the harm possibly be.

And wait also admits that typically it requires more than just breadcrumbs for cops to be believed/their reads to be pieced together.

So kind of seems to be arguing against himself here with respect to bread crumbs being optimal play.

Yeah, that's exactly what I did, and was doing. No sarcasm there btw. Most GAFIA cops typically survive until reveal, until they get to the late game. I was trying to think of example of cops breadcrumbing, didn't see too many.

I think saying "so what can the harm possibly be" is exaggerating what was intended in that statement. I was saying that I don't think the threat of scum catching onto breadcrumbs is as high as you think, based on total anecdotal evidence. I never meant to use it as some sort of definitive proof that breadcrumbing works, otherwise I wouldn't go on to weaken my point.

Start post off arguing one way, decide halfway through that some of my arguments don't work too well, so I address it. it's not scummy to contradict in that way, it would be scummy for me to realize a hole in my argument and go quiet about it

And sue me for again for using the most immediately available example (myself) to get my point across.

Last post as of now, back to throwing shade on both peeking "IF we decide to not go through with it (please town help me not appear scummy)" and on me personally. Insinuates that I would move forward with a suboptimal strategy out of spite. No dice compadre.

The inconsistency in logic and arguments here as well as the continual foot dragging against what I think is a pro town strategy is enough for me.

Sorry Lord Kawl for not immediately agreeing to your strategy because I'm fairly certain one of scum or the SK (if we have one notice I said if this time, not discounting the 50% chance that we don't and also somewhat underestimating the chance that we do) have probably done a good job disguising themselves as people's top town based on previous experiences and because the whole point of the plan is to keep cops safe and we might just be helping scum in that way. Sorry for not immediately taking a side, and instead waiting for the chance someone comes by and brings up something that changes my mind towards being pro-peeking, even though that's exactly how I became pro-peeking the first time. Your plan is flawless, all that disagree are scum.

Yet somehow I would want to move forward with a suboptimal strategy out of spite. And also set myself against town's prevailing opinion for no actual reason. Still not lying here.

Yeah, this vote was all about peeking

Don't like what I see.

Vote: Hyperactivity

Ok.

So Kawl, quick question, if this is such standard fare from other communities, why is it ever not used? Or is it literally in every single game of mafia in every community, and its been unanimously decided to go through with peeking at all times?

And no answer was ever received

Silence isn't really alarming

And you barely added anything, just sorta tagged along onto whatever Kawl said

Yup, I posted some, stayed up doing stuff, slept in till 1:00, and then got to the thread, because I wasn't really feeling like mafia before and approaching deadlines tend to motivate me.

???

Mind actually backing what you say up? How am I "style over substance"? Any posts to back it up?

Still no clue what this means.

Yeah, no. For one, there wasn't much to talk about early game, of course we're going to discuss the idea Kawl brought up. And afterwards I was gone

What Ty4on said here is correct. You actually saying something, or is this just some bs "gut read" you'll never act on

This was a reply to melon, tried to separate us more here lol, but again, still said what I meant. There wasn't much to talk about, and Kawl brought something up that had my attention at that point, because that was the topic at hand.

It's like playing Love Boat and complaining that people are discussing Kawl and Blarg's miller tracker claim in the first few hours. It's what has people's attention at that point. That's what's gonna happen. When people haven't posted bullshit to get called on, you won't see that much bullshit calling.

How is it a whole lot of nothing?

The first one was me working through why I thought my understanding of the peek plan would fail, and me working through the situation

For the second one, there is the whole rest of the post, you know.

Except it's not speculation. If I just went in and said "so we have a 75%+ chance of having a roleblocker, what do you guys think?", THAT'S useless role speculation.

I instead showed why I thought that was significant: when you take in that very likely scenario, Kawl's plan as I thought of it was really faulty. We were discussing kawl's plan, and his plan as I understood it had a 75%+ chance of being crap

Speaking of roleblockers, Kawl, how does your peek system account for the night where the cop is blocked?

Still not useless role speculation to look at likely scenarios and try and decide if a plan relating to our cop and everyone is worth doing.

Responses to everything but the last in the quote. Sorry would take forever to label and make it clear what was responding to what otherwise. Mobile ftl.

For the last part, peekings use I feel is maximized when the set up skews basic and a cop is likely. Unlike matrix games scum doesn't have too much additional knowledge on town power roles over vanilla towns, so I think peeking is better in this set up than a standard one. I can't speak for other communities but I know seeing the idea it carries a lot of logic I like and I wanted to take this game as an example to push it on to the gafia meta hard.

Didn't even see this post, the replies in bold to what I said made it such that I never actually got to see this

Right, and that was an evolution over the course of the discussion so I don't hold that against you at all.

Actually at this point I was just going pretty much line by line over your posts but decided to abandon that approach as it would have taken far too long.

My issue is that your earlier complaint about making the doctors job harder doesn't make sense, and is in fact pretty much incorrect in this other 4 player peek scenario. It increases the chance of a successful block not lowers. That inconsistent internal logic is what bothered me.

Already had mentioned I didn't understand the scenario

And logical errors in that way don't mean crap. It means you screwed up when thinking through something. Why would scum want to have "inconsistent internal logic"?

The answer to the one shot cop issue had already been brought up though.

I also don't recall you phrasing it that way but more of a late game peeking becomes problematic but it's a bit of a pain for me to see the quote of you inside my quote so eh. Mobile sucks.

I read over the answer, was preparing a rebuttal to show why it didn't work, then looked at the post again, thought over my argument again, and decided what I was going to say doesn't make much sense.

Typing things out helps me work through it, so yeah, I basically typed the same thing, I don't think I ever really took credit for Ty4on's post.

Although again, I guess you have to have the same reaction to a what a post says, can't initially dismiss it but then go back and be all "OOOOOOHHHHH"

Nah I don't think you should assume I'm town. In fact I've said I'm trying to strongly not town read people without justification. At this point in the ISO I already hadn't liked what I saw and so was looking at this from the perspective of scum hyper. But I mean this whole spiel is something though.

Because it's easy to fake rant. And that whole point was because you were complaining that I compared you to scum and neutral incarnations of myself, when the way that post had been phrased was "You don't have any solid reason to think Kawl is scum, he's probably town, although I guess I did try to do this in X and Y, so I guess I can see it"

Eh, okay sure.

Yeah, again, try putting a fake thought process. It isn't too easy.

The amount of times you went back and forth seemed abnormal to me. It's what jumped out in just 13 posts.

Guess ignoring me doing it a bunch before helped here

Or you did that to set up this move to show that you had never planned to set up.... Yea I guess if that's your style of doing thought vomit onto the page and going back and forth it makes more sense. The lack of internal consistency in some instances still feels like scum forgetting the case they are arguing to me though.

"I guess you do that thought vomit thing, and you do go back and forth, but no, I got a "FEEL" about this". 0 way to prove it though

This is cute though. I said I'd find it scummy if they didn't have a good argument for why it was bad. Your argument had failed to even convince yourself several times so it surely wasn't strong enough for me.

Insinuates that I would move forward with a suboptimal strategy out of spite. No dice compadre

as well as the continual foot dragging against what I think is a pro town strategy is enough for me.

My argument, at that point, consisted of me bringing up issues in the peeking idea, but seeing some issues in the alternative, so just be iffy on the whole thing.

And, oh hey, so much for lack of internal consistency, I guess I was being truthful about being doubtful about my own arguments and iffy on them, but definitely not about everything else. Talk about lack of internal consistency.

I n fact, you just explained why my stance at that point was the why it is. Congrats. I wasn't anti-peek because I couldn't come up with a strong enough argument for its alternative at the time, and I wasn't pro-peek because there was a bunch of dumb stuff about it (and I knew that, as scum, I sorta wanted it). So I was waiting to see if anyone would come in and explain stuff so I would get it.

Sorry for lying about that.

One thing to note is that by bringing up peeking, Kawl has found himself a really convenient place to focus on discussing the mechanics of his plan, and easily cast reads based on whether people are fine or not fine with it.

It's an easy place to be if you're the scum or SK for day 1

Again, not bs'ing about this.

Dude gave himself the privelige of discussing, defending, and attacking all around the peek system for day 1

Thatd be pretty miserable bad luck, but is a fair criticism. Would depend on how the real cop wanted to play it. Throw out a fake peek on your top town to try to throw scum off your case, depending on the day come forward, or some other action.

So much for peeking issues holding no water

Damn, sorry for using the main topic of the day to form my reads. You got me.
.

Whoopsie daisy, didn't know we were allowed to mainly discuss mechanics again

I can't seem to get that to work.... and I have to ask, what relevance does MGS have to this game?

I'm interested in hearing your arguments, not your "style" or alignment in another game entirely. I understand that the statement that Kawl brought up is hard to refute, but surely there's something in this game you can use instead...?

Kawl said I was faking a transparent, hmm I'm putting my thought process into words in the thread, I'm going for an artificial indecisive look

I pointed out I've done that in every single game I've been in, regardless of alignment. MGS was useful because it's easy to find my posts all lined up next to each other, and that's an example of me doing it while I'm town. Had Cthulhu or Harry Potter been on OG, I would've chosen those examples

It doesn't really say I'm town, but trying to use it and say I'm scum is bs

If the initial argument is bs, and something that is impossible to know, then I'm allowed to use the only proof I have (other games where I can point to his argument being bs)

Saying "I'm town, I know that, you'll have to trust I'm not doing this" would be a terrible argument

 

[Hyperactivity]

Gonna try and go through:

Cabot's (feel like there's something strange, but it's not much till I actually check on it), melonrabbit's, skyodin's, L_P's, stanleypalmtree's, and terra's post. Asides from cabot, all of those were on the lower end of posts. Terra hasn't even hit the 10 post requirement yet, although we are heading to end of day so it might still happen

I got called out on not doing this. All of these were legit people I wanted to look out. I didn't do this because I had no time trying to defend myself.

But yeah, me just leaving the thread to go through a bunch of people's posts would be a brilliant idea, definitely should have done this.

Feel free in wanting to lynch an active poster day 1. I think it would be more useful to look through the less active posters for day 1, but whatever.

Oh boy, this is where everyone starts to get on my case for using my activity as a defense.

But at the end of the day, that was because it was never really designed to be a good defense. It was a "if nothing else" defense.

People only really got on me for this, but I had, up to this point, addressed all the other criticisms. Kawl's arguments had been the crux of my lynch, and I had addressed Kawl's arguments already, and in a much more detailed manner.

If the arguments against me are bs, and I've already addressed them, yet people are starting to bandwagon against me, then yes, I'm going to pull a "if nothing else" defense out. I cant really defend myself otherwise if I've already defended myself beforehand.

The argument against me is already bs, why do I have to defend myself from a bunch of phantom votes anymore?

Check the scum thread. I was 90% sure Terra or melon would bite the dust on day 1.

You say that about melon, but how do you feel about Terra. He has played pretty cnsistently to how he normally plays, yet at the moment he seems like he might be one of our better candidates for getting lynched.

This isn't me bringing up another scum mate. This isn't me defending melon (as scum at least).

This is just me pointing out two posters that I thought had the same argument for and against, but the power that be have decreed one gets the benefit of the doubt and the other gets to be in a grand conspiracy.

I've already addressed the reasons Kawl gave, which if anything seem more half-assed

*Splinter not reading both posts doesn't surprise me, we've had posters before that don't like long posts, and it might get somewhat frustrating at times. I was expecting a more kingkitty style "fuk long posts" sort of response, and his reason was surprisingly good: we have less than an hour, the thread moves fast, and he already though Kawl's post was bs.

You seem to only really have addressed why I posted that MGS Mafia link and whether Kawl brought up anyone voting, so yeah, tbh, this vote surprises me. Seems sort of forced, what's your exact reasoning for it again?

All true. Kawl was making a read based on me being anti-peek and the fact that changing positions can both be perfectly fine and an example of scumminess.

Splinter did surprise me, while I initially thought his reasoning was suspect, him comparing reading that post that disagrees with something he already disagrees with vs keeping up with the thread was surprisingly good

And yeah, Sophia's vote caught me off guard. The way she inquired whether Kawl had ever requested everyone peek, her admitting that Kawl's accusation that I'm faking the whole "here's my thought process" thing was bs, and her only ever asking me about the MGS link (as if she was just ironing out the small issues she had with the argument) and then voting for me threw me off guard.

What does this mean?

Terra looks town (haven't seen scum Terra) yet he's a good lynch candidate?

The arguments for town melon is that she's been consistent, same thing can be said about another player, but would you say that about another player, or is this just spin the wheel of who is town, and then spin their behavior so that they look town or scum

sophsoph, i said it was to break the tie? i can't reread that much posts in a few minutes before the bell is rung sorrryyyyyy (i saw huge walls of texts)

my reads are mostly on melon but i have faith that kawl has done proper legwork so i am giving him the benefit of doubt for the hyper detectiving

its 6.36 am here and i just woke up at 6.15, miss robot

give a spider some understandingu


(I will read those walls of texts, but not sure if i have the time to parse through them and make coherent opinions within the timeframe available before the day ends, is all)

ynnny doesn't trust me D:

Spoiler

Also yeah, bullshit vote is bullshit

BS vote is still BS vote. Basically just "Trust Kawl for some reason". And tie could be broken either way.

And just like that, Sophia is easily convinced back to voting me

Looks like I have no choice

VOTE: Terrabyte20xx

ynnn, if you meant to break the tie, why go for me? If you're unaware of the situation at hand, wouldn't you rather go for the safer vote and vote for one of the lower activity players? Or is one of your scum mates in that pile?

I highly doubt ynny would be bussing me if she's scum. She had 4 targets to choose from in that group.

Feels like scum is taking the opportunity to eliminate a player that posts alot while protecting one of their buddies that's in danger of being lynched

Nothing other than the vote for Terra being sorta staged is bs here.

Still thought Terra was more likely to go than me at this point (was sorta worried because he was the roleblocker), mainly due to his vote for kawl being weird and out of nowhere, for a sorta useless reason

You had 13 posts at the time of my ISO. One of the reasons I chose you given the reasonable number of posts. You had last posted about 2 and a half hours after the phase had begun and had then have chimed in with a flurry of defensive posts (and recently some better offensive posts) here in the final two hours. Id say you are edging now into active poster territory but hesitate to say for a fact you would have done so without a case against you.

Didn't use active poster defense before, and again, the main accusation had already been addressed.

And still consistent with me in other games, because there generally isn't much going on before the end. I post a bunch, randomly disappear because I don't feel like mafia, come back, leave again, and am there for deadline.

But no, I definitely knew before I entered the thread all "OK, next few hours are mafia time" that I was being accused. Or maybe I had planned to get back to the thread but not do anything if there were no accusations against me.

Or maybe, best of all, I just shouldn't have addressed people scum-reading me. That's the best plan. Because you aren't totally gonna go for the giant post scum-reading you for bs reasons first thing when you enter the thread. And after, you're totally not going to go for the people riding the bs reasons post for scum reads.

If the accusations hadn't happened.... I still have to be in the thread to see those accusations. And if I'm in the thread before the deadline, I'm probably gonna post.

I'm scumreading Hyper's constant activity defenses, when his content has been mostly defending himself and mechanics talk.

Also, being overly defensive is a terrible scum-read, if the person in question is legitimately in lynching contention.

What are you supposed to be? If you address the source of the scum-reads, and they keep coming because you decided to question those reads.

Already talked about activity defense.

um, i dont mind lynching terra, he's been kind of ...nebulous throughout the day, but you seem more fighty ... like way too hard, and maf always fight like crazy cuz each of you are super precious

The only time you can be fighting "too hard"

A. Other person is 99% probably a really important pr
B. Town basically has to lynch you, no question. Like if you counterclaimed a role, and that person is either nk'ed or lynched. You don't really get to argue that.

Townies giving up is basically useless. At the very least, they should be calling bs behind their lynch, and pointing some fingers.

If anything, me not claiming something should've been HUGE in hinting that terra was scum.

One thing I disagree with Cabot on is his insistence on not lynching the highly active. In every other game I'd agree, but it doesn't look like it needs to be a consideration here.

Since he is a player hat would usually benefit from that line of thinking, it seems a little scummy as well (although not enough to override my read on him).

Hyper, on the other hand, is a null read who has been leaning on this as a defense.

VOTE: Hyperactivity

It benefits him, thus, he shouldn't use it. Only use it if it doesn't benefit him.

I'm bring up activity because it's the fundamental thing we discussed before this game about lynching active posters.

My main defense was in the giant post, because people are only attacking em for the giant wall of bs kawl put up, that I already addressed

Hey, it's not like I didn't actually say "Go look at the giant post for my actual defense, the accusations are bs and I have to prevent this bandwagon from happening"

Vote: Hyperactivity

Tiebreakin'

The game setup already encourages activity so I don't see why that has so much value. We should be focusing on information, and I think Hyper's lynch will yield more info than Terra's. Even if this is now a tie it's gonna get RNG'd, so this isn't such a bad vote.

Only decent reason imo.

Only one.

Gonna hold on to this post, maybe if I can refer to an out of game post where I'm saying all the same stuff I do in-game, people will actually trust it

 

[cabot]

Oh, and my avatar change was because of Sky's flip.

I became Broken cabot.

 

[cabot]

lol Hyper, agree to disagree.

 

[Hyperactivity]

lol Hyper, agree to disagree.

Nah, this way the next time people say I'm bs'ing, I just point to those posts and they actually believe it because it's the same stuff I say out of game

 

[cabot]

Why would you be so defensive though, to the point of not actually looking at anyone else, if you were town?

Only if you were a PR, and then you'd claim to stay alive.

If you're a townie, you shouldn't be so defensive. It's day 1. Lynching a townie isn't a bad result. You're avoiding PRs at that point, scum if you're lucky.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Why would you be so defensive though, to the point of not actually looking at anyone else, if you were town?

Only if you were a PR, and then you'd claim to stay alive.

If you're a townie, you shouldn't be so defensive. It's day 1. Lynching a townie isn't a bad result. You're avoiding PRs at that point, scum if you're lucky.

??????

Because you know you're town.

And because you think the other person is more likely to be scum

And because giving up gives the town as a whole nothing to look at and benefit from once you're lynched (scum that know they're screwed are better served going silent)

And you wouldn't look at anyone else if you're checking the thread at 2 hours and are being accused and you deciding to take a break is asking for you to get majority'd or hit by the timer before you can get back

And because you think next to every single reason behind you getting lynched is bs, most of them being some form of a bandwagon that everyone just sorta accepts.

So yeah. It's easier to attack your accusers, because you don't know their alignment, and you think their reasons are dumb. And dumb reasons are dumb. Is Sky suddenly not town for being "defensive"

 

[cabot]

I didn't say giving up, I said focus on defending yourself.


Why defend when you can attack?

You maybe give a post or two for a defense, then you focus on others. Who you think is scum, why you think they are scum. Keep discussion going.


Literally doing nothing but defending yourself isn't helpful as Town.

 

[Hyperactivity]

I didn't say giving up, I said focus on defending yourself.


Why defend when you can attack?

You maybe give a post or two for a defense, then you focus on others. Who you think is scum, why you think they are scum. Keep discussion going.


Literally doing nothing but defending yourself isn't helpful as Town.

But that's not what I did?

But how can you be sure people trying to get you lynched are scum? And the bandwagon votes, or the people that cite earlier voters for their vote, how do you know they aren't just townie?

You don't. You can call people out on bullshit in a certain post or two, hell, go ahead, say that xyz post makes them look like scum. It's a scummy action. Sure, whatever.

But unless that poster has some clear pattern of being scummy, which having to immediately go to defend yourself from votes doesn't help too much with discovering, be careful about those actual scum reads. I've had people make scummy actions, but then I go, check their posts out, and decide that they're townie.

So yeah, go back through day 1. I called Kawl out for his post, which I thought had some bs reasons to vote for me. I call melon out for gut read nonsense. I call ynny out for out of nowhere vote. I call Sophia out for agreeing with Kawl's post, and seemingly nitpicking over a minor point in my defense to a complete bs reason in Kawl's post. Iirc, call splinter out for flip-flopping on terra and I, and semi-bandwagoning on me.

I defend myself over the mechanics and being defensive.

Notice anything about me calling out people in that situation? Unless I am to be suspicious and scum read almost all my voters, I at most can say that action a, b, c, makes them look scummy. You can note things down about the reasons. Better back up any actual reasons.

Hell, I flat out scum read ynny and Kawl, how is that not giving a read?

And town reads are almost always consisting of what really should just be null reads, unless you're comfortable labeling most of the players as town with utter confidence. Too much WIFOM to give a shit about.

 

[cabot]

I don't think we're going to agree here, so best stop now.

 

[*Splinter]

Not read everything, but I don't think this conversation would even be happening if you were town. You'd accept the mislynch and move on. As scum you feel entitled to a better reason for your lynch, and that comes across in thread.

I thought (and still think) Kawl's case against you was a lot of hot air. But it set the conversation for a Hyper lynch and your posts failed to change that. His initial reasoning hardly even matters here.

You aren't going to find some single obvious #scumtell that people can point to and you could correct. Mafia isn't that easy.

Quoting myself from OG because I think its good advice in general:

As town you want to do two things:
1) Identify scum
2) Get them lynched

Town leader especially is going to be doing a lot of number 2. To achieve this, you will probably need to appear a lot more confident in your convictions than you actually are. Feeling reluctant is fine, expected even. Displaying reluctance is actively working against your goal of getting this person lynched.

I had the same feeling as Terra. The high activity and short phases made it difficult to keep up and form consistent reads on people (for example I had a theory about masons but completely forgot who it referred to by the end of day 1). However unlike Terra I didn't bring it up in game because, as town, why would I? It accomplishes nothing except to excuse bad reads (town make bad reads anyway) and brings negativity to the thread.

I also expected to start being scumread eventually due to my flaky reads (I followed the majority opinion more than I usually do), but as town it didn't bother me - part of the game. As scum I'd probably be frustrated that I was being accused for what I considered to be bad reasons (as you have done).

So yeah, I can believe he was being genuine but that doesn't make it not scummy.

There's probably something similar in your posts but this was an easier example.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Lol, already at the point where I'm back to laughing at salt mine.

Still against peeking, but whatever

 

[batsnacks]

Hey

You guys should go pet some dogs.

Tell a dog that they are a good dog. They know what that means.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Hey

You guys should go pet some dogs.

Tell a dog that they are a good dog. They know what that means.

my doggie piccarz from our park trip.

just cuz

 

[batsnacks]

^ That's a good dog.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

^ That's a good dog.

she's actually quite a handful lil* chicka

but thaaaankie, batsie <3

*lil cuz she's 9 months, not size wise.

 

[cabot]

woof woof

 

[Sorian]

I think the best way to describe peeking is to compare it to vaccines. It's never going to have a net negative but it becomes progressively more and more useless the less people that do it. I mean, what is the downside from your point of view?

If everyone posts a fake peek, the three extremes are:

-Scum cop hunts, as they kill people that had a correct peek, they inadvertently clear those people since scum wouldn't kill someone who had peeked wrong.

-Scum plays into WIFOM and purposely kills someone they know isn't the cop because they peeked a scum as town. Ok, I guess, but now they are giving the real cop even more time to work. A soft clear by the tricky NK is still trumped by the mmechanical clears that the cop is getting.

-Scum ignores all the non-sense and goes about their day killing strong players or targetting other behavior, null gain.

So yeah, from the town point of view, we can argue it's WIFOM and things get murky. Maybe scum did 3, town all assumes 1 happened, but, by chance, 2 is the scenario we're in. As with anything in mafia, the downfall would be if everyone just took it as gospel and tunneled on it.

Edit: And meh, it's not a "other communities are different!" argument, mafia is still a game, there is optimal play regardless of where you are. Gafia isn't a good benchmark for that at all, a lot of us play against ourselves all the time when it comes to strategy.

 

[Blargonaut]

What the fuck is peeking

 

[Sophia]

What the fuck is peeking

Spoiler

A strategy where you try to give the cop some cover for breadcruming by having everyone claim cop and saying who they looked at + indirectly confirming townies if scum should try and hunt the cop.