Yes peeks work best if everyone will get on board but I had trouble believing that would be the case given that it's never been brought up. The larger number of peeks the better.
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Mini Mafia I |OT| Why is it so small?
- Thread starter Timeaisis
- Start date
Hyperactivity
Banned
If what world is claiming you investigated that person not a fake claim of having a cop role?
Lone_Prodigy
Member
UNVOTE
Wouldn't all the peeking increase the odds of scum hitting the actual cop?
Wouldn't all the peeking increase the odds of scum hitting the actual cop?
How is a breadcrumb that's obvious when you know someone is a cop all that different from a peek? The alternative is a non-obvious crumb which has its own set of problems.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Hmm, I guess if we got EVERYONE in the game, even scum and SK, to be forced into claiming a peek, I might like the odds of hiding the cop in numbers more.
melonrabbit
Member
Just got back from work, to find, within the hour everything is a mess. Great job!
Well, that would have been immensely helpful for DP.
Whelp.
Well, that would have been immensely helpful for DP.
Whelp.
Because we've agreed it's not? It'll be pretty obvious if everybody does it.
Not with a critical mass of peeks
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I didn't see the posts above. Okay if everyone peeks that's better, and I can see how it gives scum no additional info besides obfuscating the actual cop's results.
If it is just cops + one or two vanilla townies + one or two scum who do the peeks, then the plan can absolutely backfire. It would narrow down both the possible cops and possible total number of PRs. If everyone peeks, then it might help accomplish its goal.
So, how confident are you that people will actually hop onboard this peek plan?
So far I like this kind of mess. At least people are talking.
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I actually posted that in DP, that's where I found the link
It was the eve of D2 before Flame was lynched and Sophia had just replaced Topo.
As far as top town versus random for your peek target it breaks down to whether you think the random person you choose is more likely to be town than it is for the cops target to be super unbelievable as a top town pick. Or we just muddy the waters as to which way several of us are doing it to insert some more uncertainty in scums analysis of peeks.
Given that I think we've established that more peeks total strengthen the whole idea of peeking, I feel confident people will get on board now. Inless someone can explain how peeks from everyone would be detrimental to town I will see the lack of a peek as scummy.
Or rather I'll say I want it to be all or nothing. And if we decide on all and people back out, clearly that would be scummy.
So another question! I am coming around on this idea btw, if everyone is on board for peeking. But are all the fake cops peeking that they townread someone or are some meant to be mixing in scum reads as well? Since if everyone only posts they townread someone then what does the cop do if they actually hit scum, claim?
No. Should only town peek. Chances of being right on a guess are very low so you'd basically be lowering the cover of the actual cop. If cop hits scum they have to decide if they want to come forward, fake peek and breadcrumb their scum read, or something else.
I'm not crazy about cop hitting scum on n1 tbh. Which is also why I don't mind people putting their top town as their peek.
Right, which is what I was thinking. I think a scum result from a cop is more worthwhile when it was a fairly active poster that you were getting pretty good vibes off of. Those are the most dangerous members of the scum team. Not the shady af guy you picked up on on day 1.
Hyperactivity
Banned
When the true cop finds scum, he claims
If the true cop finds scum he claims. Everyone else claims town. This makes peeking alot less viable late game, but numbers dwindle down late game, of course that will happen.
So Kawl, if we only have a 1-shot, how does he verify when he made the shot? Because if he goes along with the peeking, he would be expected to mention him being one shot on day 2, but if he's' smart and saves it till lter?
Like Ty's suggestion, add on to your peek if I was one shot this was my shot, on the day that you would use it if you were an actual 1 shot cop.
I guess the safe assumption would be to presume that the Night 1 check was the real one, since it is likely that the one-shot cop would use their check immediately.
Also correct. Really peeking will probably only go on for at most 3 peeks. At that point it will almost always be worth it for the cop to come forward with the cleared list, have hit scum, or be dead themselves.
melonrabbit
Member
I'm mostly joking. While it is more for me to read -- discussion is necessity for us to get anywhere.
As far as using fake claims, Im not convinced that it would not end up backfiring as far as strategies go. 1) it creates confusion for all involved parties 2) using it can help scum identify vanilla town from the rest of the pack.
I worry it helps us as much as it helps them. Would we really gain that much more and making it worth the risk?
Interesting phrasing there.
Again, if everyone is peeking, it provides no information as far as vanilla townies go.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I'm not sure I follow here. For one, there's no real reason why Kawl would be doing this that tells me one way or the other what he is. Yeah, you technically have a WIFOM, but you can make a WIFOM out of any player in the game, the only issue is whether there's anything solid to make you lean one way or the other. Yeah, people come straight out of the gate, yadda yadda yadda, scum like to control conversation, is scummy. But we have no proof backing up what he is here
2nd, tbh, Kawl's peeking idea seems pretty beneficial to town. I'm not sure if this is enough to make me think of him being town, as for all I know he just wanted to introduce the concept to gafia, but it makes me lean that way. It might just be scum trying to gain trust, but if we get a good plan out of it, then why the hell not.
It fits in with GAFIA's habit of lynching player's that stand out too much on day 1, but I'm not sure if that was ever a good thing to begin with.
Speaking from being in that position (straight out of the gates) in harry potter and Bar (scum and arsonist), being in that position only gets you so far. I did in HP because I had a bunch of scummates, so me dying early wasn't too bad. I did it in bar because I had a win condition I could go after pretty early.
Hyperactivity
Banned
But won't every person just default to saying "If I was one shot, this was my shot" by tomorrow? Are we going to organize who says when their one shot was?
Err, nevermind, just realized the beauty of it all. As long as everyone does the above it's fine
melonrabbit
Member
Just to I understand you correctly, we are all agreeing to peek during the start of D2 to assist the cop, yes?
Hyperactivity
Banned
That's the beauty of this situation, and why I'm coming around on it. As long as everyone is involved, neither scum nor town are any closer to knowing who was the cop or not, but the cop has a safe space to give his actual results.
The one bad scenario is if a bunch of people give scum and the SK town reads, because that,
Actually, thinking about it now, that could be the main backfire of this whole idea. Ideally, everyone only gives townies town reads, however, bulletproof SK and scum could use the people claiming they are town to find the cop. If we had no peeking, scum would look through a pool of 10-12 people for the cop tomorrow, but every person that screws it up gets scum closer to the cop than they would have been
Hmm, not sure if I'm as on board now. Is it worth that risk?
melonrabbit
Member
OK. It is making more sense to me.
Also, I'll be straight up I was going to bring up this point regardless of my alignment. So you shouldn't be town reading me just because of the idea.
But for the love of god, I hope gafia town eventually grow out of lynching active person who has ideas even if they are out there. It literally killed me to see Ouro get lynched in Barfia and the way it impacted activity. Scum can continue to NK active posters to their heart's content, it has proven to be an effective strategy, but don't shoot yourself in the foot town (I don't mean that in a self preservation way and I doubt this will be as much of a problem given this game's conceit, just using this soap box in general tbh).
That risk is why I said to pick your top town as your peek. It lowers that risk pretty substantially I think. And yes I do think its worth the risk. A cop who dies without revealing their info is essentially the same as no cop. I don't find combing for breadcrumbs and debating this or that after a cops flip really beneficial.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Don't we have examples of cops pretty effectively hiding who they investigated to their death?
Alot of their reads then suddenly make sense, but are passed over at initial glance.
Alot of their reads then suddenly make sense, but are passed over at initial glance.
Those questionable reads could also have been a factor leading to their death, no? Scum knows they aren't scum and sees these weird reads....might be a cop. Not to mention this also makes scum put forth another piece of hard data to be analyzed once they flip. Sure we can play wifom at that point, but more interactions between scum and others are always worth.
Hyperactivity
Banned
We need a database on the situation behind every cop kill, because I swear that every time I've been scum, I've missed what are, in hindsight, pretty obvious bread crumbs. I'm not saying this is always true, but speaking from my experiences as scum before, they don't really comb the thread as well as alot of people assume
Of course, I also don't think we've had many cops die and only relay us their breadcrumbs, besides examples like Dangaropa (faked a sleepwalker who knew who he visited) and Archer (checked a private chat's members, was able to tell those people) and Harry Potter in a sense (that stupid coding bs XD) where they used something unorthodox to get it done
Hey man, just cause you slack off as scum doesn't mean others do...
hydrocannonptsd.gif
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I would think we'd spread out our peek targets to multiple people, so that would lower the odds should we peek scum, but I agree it's not a foolproof plan.
I guess it's a question of what's more important. One confirmed town or a smaller cop pool for scum to choose from?
I think that if we agree to peek it has to be everyone. We need the possible pool of cops to be as large as possible for this to work effectively IMO, so if peeking is what we're doing I think it's got to be all or nothing. And I am down with that, I just don't want it to be like a handful of vanilla townies + cop since at that point I'm not sure if it's stronger than just letting the cop do their own thing.
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on it though, particularly Splinter's since he was initially against it.
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on it though, particularly Splinter's since he was initially against it.
DAY 1 VOTES
hyperactivity (0)
kristoffer 23 (46)
cabot (2)
kawl_usc 24
lone_prodigy 31 (31)
*splinter 37 (51)
kristoffer 46
yesnononoyes (1)
cabot 27
kristoffer (1)
ty4on 29
kawl_usc (2)
lone_prodigy 31 (103)
*splinter 51
terrabyte20xx 77
ty4on (1)
skyodin 39
DAY 1 ENDS:
DO NOT POST AFTER DAY END -- :59 OKAY, :00 NOT OKAY
IMPORTANT POSTS:
OP
D1 Start
hyperactivity (0)
cabot (2)
kawl_usc 24
kristoffer 46
yesnononoyes (1)
cabot 27
kristoffer (1)
ty4on 29
kawl_usc (2)
*splinter 51
terrabyte20xx 77
ty4on (1)
skyodin 39
DAY 1 ENDS:
DO NOT POST AFTER DAY END -- :59 OKAY, :00 NOT OKAY
IMPORTANT POSTS:
OP
D1 Start
Hyperactivity
Banned
We also have to decide on it today, and stick with it. If we decide to not go through with it, but kawl still thinks its a good idea, he can't just go and post who he peeked tomorrow and try and force everyone else to post as a stopgap/save
lol nice shade
melonrabbit
Member
I agree. This whole thing falls apart unless we all are for it. And we definitely need to hear from everyone if we are going to reach a decision.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
The only issue I see is if someone peeks scum, which disqualifies them as the cop (to scum). Assuming we don't all peek the same person, that's 3-4 potential cop targets removed.
But... would the cop not tell us if he hits scum N1?
But... would the cop not tell us if he hits scum N1?
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Hi everyone :>
.... Will back read after this post but why is Kittykris banned???
:x
.... Will back read after this post but why is Kittykris banned???
:x
oh wow. god damnit kris. I assume something politics related what with the polls released today.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Also
vote: stanleypalmtree
reason: u are 2 hours ahead of me, kiwi, but you havent checked in yet so ...... booooop
vote: stanleypalmtree
reason: u are 2 hours ahead of me, kiwi, but you havent checked in yet so ...... booooop
aw geez.
whats your thoughts on whats been discussed so far?