Do scum need to defend themselves hard on day one?
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Mini Mafia III |OT| An Amazing Alien Abduction Adventure
- Thread starter YesNOnoNOYes
- Start date
Do scum need to defend themselves hard on day one?
Alright, but we are t minus 3 hours and change. Time to hurry up on that analysis.
Kind of ties into the whole gafia never hammers. Despite a majority lynch not being a thing in this game, being more pointed with our votes would behoove town I think.
melonrabbit
Member
I really have yet to feel he has made a genuine attempt to defense himself. He reads were based very little and when questioned on why he read things that way he has yet to respond and requested more time. I don't even really care much about the Ouro vote/unvote but his response to the pressure is worrying. He was similar in Pixar -- vapid reads without context, disappearing when the pressure gets to hot, avoiding asnwers.
I asked simple questions. I don't need an essay.
Instead I get more shade and a vote for me for attempting to work with him and not throw a vote on him during all of his blundering and waiting for an answer.
I assume scum's playing to win so I don't see why they wouldn't defend themselves.
The Day 1 scum lynches I've seen were all last minute votes that caught them off guard.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I rue the day when we can't even joke vote to start mafia games anymore. Somehow my unvote was more suspect than the 3rd "joke vote" on someone? One is a hoot, two is a funny pile on, three raises eyebrows. Four (I reached that amount) is serious, five is a tightened noose (I also reached that amount).
Yes.
Answered.
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Yes.
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Hmm in the sense that if one does it, others might too it too, yeah I guess. You go one step further in the argument and I do not think it is a false step at all. Something something old habits die hard.
You agreed with my case for Crab?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think Ourobolus is coasting terribly. He's managed to sneak into being one of the top posters, while causing almost nothing. It's actively difficult for me to find things to say about, or say something about his interactions with other players, because he doesn't have any. He pushed incredibly softly on Kawl and Haly, without explanation.
When neither attempt was successful, he moved on to Time. His reasoning was terrible: he felt that LP was scum, and Time was too keen to vote LP, therefore Time was bussing scum. The probability of correctly hitting non-town on the first day is low, the chance of hitting two non-town is even lower - you just can't produce meaningful scum relationships at this point.
But, even if this was a meaningful reason, then Time could be scum because, according to Ouro, LP is scum - so LP must logically be more likely to be scum than Time. But Ouro didn't vote for LP. Why? I'd suggest because there was a wagon building on LP, and Ouro was overly keen to avoid the wagon in order to avoid the overzealous sort of town that bothers policing midday D1 wagons.
Haly, why were you discussing kills? Do you want to discuss anyone that isn't me? If not, why? If that is the case, why was it necessary to wait for my post?
squidydiddydo, where are you?
we got some work to do now
squiddydiddydo, where are you?
we need some help from you now
Kyan, in post 184 you liked Tim's reasoning. In post 342, you said he'd be one of your favourite people to vote for. What changed in the meantime? Why did you not set this out in your read list, something that should have been one of the most important details? Given you missed details in order to produce such a scattergun approach, do you still stand by it being useful?
CzarTim, why did you think my contributions were relatively low? Why have you not been equally fussed, or more so, about, say, Haly?
When neither attempt was successful, he moved on to Time. His reasoning was terrible: he felt that LP was scum, and Time was too keen to vote LP, therefore Time was bussing scum. The probability of correctly hitting non-town on the first day is low, the chance of hitting two non-town is even lower - you just can't produce meaningful scum relationships at this point.
But, even if this was a meaningful reason, then Time could be scum because, according to Ouro, LP is scum - so LP must logically be more likely to be scum than Time. But Ouro didn't vote for LP. Why? I'd suggest because there was a wagon building on LP, and Ouro was overly keen to avoid the wagon in order to avoid the overzealous sort of town that bothers policing midday D1 wagons.
Haly, why were you discussing kills? Do you want to discuss anyone that isn't me? If not, why? If that is the case, why was it necessary to wait for my post?
squidydiddydo, where are you?
we got some work to do now
squiddydiddydo, where are you?
we need some help from you now
Kyan, in post 184 you liked Tim's reasoning. In post 342, you said he'd be one of your favourite people to vote for. What changed in the meantime? Why did you not set this out in your read list, something that should have been one of the most important details? Given you missed details in order to produce such a scattergun approach, do you still stand by it being useful?
CzarTim, why did you think my contributions were relatively low? Why have you not been equally fussed, or more so, about, say, Haly?
melonrabbit
Member
I was thinking that since day one's results are quite unpredictable hours or even minutes before the deadline, is there a great need to go all in to defend oneself as scum? Of course, some sort of a defense is to be expected in order to appear town, no townie wants to die after all. But is there a point where too much of a defense becomes too revealing for scum? In general I feel that not everyone, when town, fights for their survival strongly enough. But is a weak defense a town tell, welcome to WIFOM-land, enjoy your stay.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Lone_Prodigy, who should I vote for?
Yes I agree with your case for crab but I have a personal bias for crab and I like watching him play so while I'm not opposed to lynching him today I would rather not unless there aren't alternatives. But I also disagree with your scumreading of Tim in your big post. He jokes around but it's just to get a rise out of people before going in.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
The case was that Crab implied Tim had bad intentions, like mafia does, despite voting for LP for basically the same reasons as Tim.
Crab says I didn't understand the context (not that any was given), what do you think now?
Tim =/= Time. I liked CzarTim's reasoning and wanted to vote for Timeaisis. My apologies for not using full names, not the 1st time confusion like this has occurred. I imagine the read list part is answered by this as well. I do favor the scattergun still, I think the details you reference is about the example I gave and you wish to offer a straightforward, one-two-target approach as an alternative. In this case, the scattergun please. I don't like ignoring the field and, something that I did not mention before, I feel that I can get easily blinded by myself if I focus on just a person or two.
At this point I have to ask if this line of discussion will eventually lead to something. Not that I am bothered by it, I'm just not sure of its relevance.
1) Just a stray thought I had I wanted to talk to someone about. But apparently no one wants to talk with me
2) No. As I see it there are two-three players with voting momentum at this point. LP, you, and possibly Oureoleoro. There's no sense in addressing others as we're approaching lynch/kill and the situation will change quickly. We can always follow up on D2.
3) There's no point in me making a read and then having to immediately update it because of new material (since I was respecting your schedule). That's just a waste of time.
I responded to you! But you didn't respond to my response!1) Just a stray thought I had I wanted to talk to someone about. But apparently no one wants to talk with me
2) No. As I see it there are two-three players with voting momentum at this point. LP, you, and possibly Oureoleoro. There's no sense in addressing others as we're approaching lynch/kill and the situation will change quickly. We can always follow up on D2.
3) There's no point in me making a read and then having to immediately update it because of new material (since I was respecting your schedule). That's just a waste of time.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
That's fair, apologies. I have no idea how you say Timeaisis (I go with TIM-AY-AYE-SIS) so he's Tim to me as well.
I mean, the main place I want to get is a more detailed case from you for someone specific. We have mere hours left in which we need to reach a majority decision. Some of that time obviously has to be dedicated to considering any cases put forward. So you're really reaching the limit of the scattergun approach, because we need to be deciding now. At the moment I have you mentally pegged as town more than most, so your read is valuable to me.
I think Crab's argument is convincing. I already had something like that in mind. Sometimes GAFia read too much into the timing of posts.
But then I always err on the side of leniency and this is one of my weaknesses as a player so...
Oh right well I agreed with squidy that giving scum threads like these wasn't helpful so I decided to drop it.
(And it was always one of my frustrations as a town power role when town would speculate openly on mechanics and give more information to scum, but I thought I'd try something different this time around.)
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I have two votes on me. There are six players with one vote on them. If I was to
VOTE: batsnacks
then suddenly the momentum has changed entirely - LP is now on 3, myself on 2, batsnacks on 2, and a whole host of players on 1.
Of course, I don't want to do that, so I'm quite happy to
VOTE: Ourobolus
who, astonishingly, doesn't have an active vote on him. But at least for the time being, I do want a good explanation of why you suddenly find yourself unable to contribute even when in a particular fluid situation?
Well, that's a very interesting point. Ouro seems fine pointing thing out but doesn't want to commit. Starting to come around to an ouro vote today, tbh. Gorlak has been active the last couple pages and I like his content.
We should spend the rest of the day phase going over how each of us pronounce my name.
Also, I'm honored you pronounce it the same way you would pronounce Plato's dialogue if it had like five extra vowels.
But this isn't really momentum is it? Momentum is more than votes, it's also mental real estate, and with GAFia's proven recency bias that puts you ahead of batsnacks however you may throw your singular vote. The only time the vote leaders at the end of D1 are upset is if someone brings forth a longwinded case against a hitherto unknown quantity, which you're not doing for batsnacks.
I don't want to shoot wildly near the end of the day. I've seen that enough now that I'd rather solidify a vote ahead of time rather than keep my vote fluid right down to the last second.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Right, and my point is you have ample opportunity to be that someone. The fact you're choosing not to isn't something forced on you by the context, it is an active choice to play passively, which is frustrating.
I mean, if your genuine suspiscion lies in one of the players you consider as having momentum, that's fine - but you need to justify that! As it is, I'm struggling to determine whether your play is bad town or scum, and neither would be a good conclusion.
The idea sometime ago was to go for lurkers (other than meee) and that then would've been you, LP, Ouro, Squid and Timeaisis. Would've treated Haly and melon as possibilities as well for reasons other than hiding. I am repeating myself but I like saying strong stances and on day one I form them at the end. I am aware of the downsides of this way of working and will try to change.
I feel comfortable dropping you from the race since you contribute. LP stays in because I don't like his aggressive way of fighting for his survival. Ouro is in because he could do more than cruising and I did not agree with his lurking post, what had a hint of cover in it. Squidyj hasn't really said that much, don't mind lynching him. Time too is bit too silent for my liking. Melon I remove from consideration because I feel she is doing more than just poking. Buuuuuuuuuut maybe she is tunneling a bit? Hmm. Haly I have to keep as a I dunno.
yes i am still trying to decide who to vote for and time-isis for me too
I shall eagerly await this.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Also it's Time-ISIS for me.
Backwards, it is Sisi a-Emit, or سيسي أ-إمت. Clear terrorist.
Not my style, I can't really put forth that kind of argument and I wouldn't be genuine about it even if I could. I would just be trying to get a lynch on someone else for the heck of it. My biggest "let's kill this guy" feeling still remains with LP, but I'm open to alternatives.
Also my name had that suffix before the terrorist organization wrangled it.
That reminds me of the student magazine Isis in Oxford (named after the river). Makes for some fun facebook events
"Isis launch party!" etc etc
As long as I have friends who are still there and constantly post their stupid hackery all over my timeline, I'm not letting you forget either
So you didn't want to address my vote until someone else brought that up? Ok.
Also I'll totally vote for LP if that's what we want to do.
I was specifically asked about you. You are acting like I said you were the least contributing player in the game when I simply said you were low. Which is true no matter how much you hand wave it.
vote:crab
Why are you so defensive?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think my contributions have been low. I think I was almost certainly at least halfway up the player list in terms of contribution, above Haly, Lone_Prodigy, Ourobolus, squidyj, Timeaisis, and Kyanrute.
"Why are you so defensive?" I'm exactly as defensive as I ought to be, but you're not paying attention now, because you should know the answer to this if you've read my posts.
is this really a good defense
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The logical conclusion to this is that scum would just stop contributing altogether, because then we'd never get any useful information if they had flipped Town.
...fuck, that's the current GAF meta. 😱
Not particularly. Town lynches rarely provide info unless there's a scum lynch/wagon to compare it with.
People pushing to lynch town!ouro are more likely misguided town than scum just by odds.
It exonerates LP somewhat.
I mean he's still coasty but at least it kills the thing that started the LP train in the first place.