Sir Alemeth
Member
Feels like Wainwright is always hurt or something.
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MLB 2014-2015 Offseason |OT| Playoff Dreaming
- Thread starter chicagocubsfan
- Start date
BFIB
Member
Add one part pitcher who has thrown a shit ton of innings over the past two seasons. Add one part medical staff that continues to prove incompotent over the years. Mix the two, and you get a Wainwright.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I mean this specific thing is more than likely nothing. I'm guessing it's just a precaution and they're taking him to St. Louis because he isn't supposed to throw to live hitters for a while anyway because of a delayed spring training
I'd be way more worried if it was his arm, especially his elbow
I'd be way more worried if it was his arm, especially his elbow
It's alright - I just saw on TV that Kozma is trying to become a catcher. His bat - Wainwright's arm = profit. Totally....
I bet Waino pitches opening day or at least before April is through.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Hymay Garcia will lead us back to the World Series. The team is 1/1 for championship parades when Wainwright misses the entire season.
Someone will probably disrespect him again. Oh the humanity.
How are they going to answer this question and not one of the few I've sent in? WTF Ben and Sam. I mean it was the best/funniest episode since the cricket one (which was somehow unintentionally funny), but still....
For the uninitiated, they figure a single replacement-level higher-fiver is going to be part of at least 10k high fives this season. Qualify that, HRs of the world.
chicagocubsfan
Member
So clutch that the season starts soon.
Because the Bulls have broken my heart again.
Because the Bulls have broken my heart again.
Rock And Roll
Member
Derrick Rose related? Jump on the Blackhawks, they've still got a few cups left in them.
Patrick Kane is out 6-10 weeks with a broken collarbone.
chicagocubsfan
Member
My dad's a big fan, but never really got into Hockey as they were never on TV as a kid.
Who's going to get hurt on either Chicago baseball team to complete the trifecta?
Would it even matter?
Rock And Roll
Member
It's crazy how much a man can miss by simply not checking NHL.com in the morning. There's a possibility he could be back for the playoffs. Either way, as I said, they've got a few cups left in them. Doesn't have to be this year.
BFIB
Member
Perfect time for the Blues to step up! Though Allen and Elliot are looking vulnerable. Still missing Captain Shattenkirk.
bonesmccoy
Banned
I for one look forward to the Jays having competent catching this year.
Is Martin the first decent one they've had since mid-00s Molina? Was Molina even average?
Is Martin the first decent one they've had since mid-00s Molina? Was Molina even average?
Frozenprince
Banned
It's going to be absurdly expensive to see games.
Molina was occasionally okay. At least better than the dumpster fire that has been their catching for a looong time (thanks for TD'A).
Rock And Roll
Member
Jays need to sign one of Pat Borders' 12 kids. One of them must have inherited the catching gene from their Pops.
Yes, to me, Ortiz is an example of how much the "it" factor seems to matter for Hall voters.
It would be one thing if he were statistically sub-par (by hall of fame standards, that is) but widely recognized to be a stand up guy. I'm okay with a guy who is near the edge of HoF balloting to get the "nice guy" bump over the edge.
But that's not really what's helping Ortiz. He has been objectively found to be juicing, something that other players who are clearly better than he is have been denied for just because of rumors that they may have possibly juiced.
I think baseball writers have a very strong sense of "clutchness" and "mystique" that I clearly do not share.
It would be one thing if he were statistically sub-par (by hall of fame standards, that is) but widely recognized to be a stand up guy. I'm okay with a guy who is near the edge of HoF balloting to get the "nice guy" bump over the edge.
But that's not really what's helping Ortiz. He has been objectively found to be juicing, something that other players who are clearly better than he is have been denied for just because of rumors that they may have possibly juiced.
I think baseball writers have a very strong sense of "clutchness" and "mystique" that I clearly do not share.
Frozenprince
Banned
It's absurd that they'd let Ortiz in after he got caught, CAUGHT juicing but not let the greatest player of our generation and possibly ever get in because he got caught juicing. If Ortiz gets in and Barry Bonds doesn't there shouldn't be a HoF.
The Ortiz thing was weird since it was an unofficial anonymous test and they wouldn't tell him what he tested positive for. He's also been great since then, so you could say he proved that he really has it.
As for Barry Bonds, yea his pre-roid career should get him in the HoF anyway.
edit: might have been an official test but anonymous to get a % of people who had taken banned substances, can't recall
As for Barry Bonds, yea his pre-roid career should get him in the HoF anyway.
edit: might have been an official test but anonymous to get a % of people who had taken banned substances, can't recall
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why do you assume that he hasn't been using since then? Because he hasn't failed a test? Neither did A-Rod or Braun. Maybe he's just smart enough to not buy his stuff using his real name since that's all it really takes to fly under MLB's radar apparently.
As for "pre-roid" Bonds, how do we even know what that is? For all we know he could have been using stuff since high school.
Braun technically never failed a test either!
Of course he sucks now so there is no HoF debate to be had there.
Frozenprince
Banned
It doesn't matter, a whole generation juiced (and they still absolutely do don't let Selig and his moral crusade fool you) you can't discount a guy for getting popped. Was he the best ever? Did he do enough to get into the HoF? Then put him in the hall.
Steroids don't suddenly make a guys bat speed able to hit 101 MPH pitches (like Bonds could) that's natural talent.
Steroids don't suddenly make a guys bat speed able to hit 101 MPH pitches (like Bonds could) that's natural talent.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yeah that's what I mean though. The biggest busts for PEDs that MLB has made weren't because guys failed tests, it was because they were dumb enough to use their real names and deal directly with dealers. Makes you wonder how easy it is circumvent the testing system and how "clean" the sport really is. Everyone just assumes that PEDs are gone which is laughable to me.
Bonds didn't win a World Series; Ortiz has won 3. Bonds was never a world series MVP; Ortiz has been.
That's really the obvious difference here. I think it's clear that the Hall disproportionately rewards people who happen to get hot in the small stretch of 10-50 postseason games they play in their career or who happen to play on better teams. Ortiz has been on some very good teams and been the star on several of those world series winners; that virtue (which I would attribute almost entirely to randomness) clearly trumps almost any other concern.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The cheaters are always ahead - people still juice, they're just better about taking whatever masking agents they need to pass the tests.
Postseason stats always bug me because its a statistically small sample and anyone can win in a short series.
Postseason stats always bug me because its a statistically small sample and anyone can win in a short series.
Frozenprince
Banned
It's the same thing with Bum and his absurd postseason success. Yes it's nice and yes it's impressive, but it's a totally random variable played out over a very small sample size. You can't attribute extra importance to what someone does in October without looking at what they did from April till then. Ortiz plays well in the post season no doubt, but Bonds most certainly wasn't the reason his teams never won the WS. If anything he was the primary reason they were good enough to compete for one.
The logic of the postseason hero has never made sense to me. Maybe because I'm a math geek.
I mean you can call it cheating, but you're absolutely not facing reality if you don't think 90% of players juice. It's the same in every sport. Hell the Tour had like, what, it's 37th ranked biker as the only one out of the top 50 or so that didn't at some point in time test positive?
It's the modern competitive environment. Steroids don't suddenly make someone Barry Bonds or Mark McGuire, those guys are already great, steroids just take greatness and give it a very small boost (ignoring that all the pitchers in the steroid era with juicing as well). Hell, Bartolo Colon juiced and look at the guy, he's a walking heart attack.
Purple Cheeto
Member
David Ortiz only had 4 career seasons with an OPS over 1.000.
Barry Bonds only had one sub 1.000 OPS season for the entirety of his 30s. And that year he OPSed .999!
Frozenprince
Banned
You assume the HoF voters care about OPS.
Yea fair points. Guess it's a lot of assumptions that the MLB is catching people and that Bonds wasn't on them when he looked small, which is pretty much vague guessing.
Ortiz has always been a pretty big guy, but PEDs aren't always about size. I hope he's not still on any banned ones.
Frozenprince
Banned
I mean Mike Piazza, the greatest offensive catcher in the history of the fucking sport, has had to wait three years to get into the hall because a baseball writer saw backne (I'm 24 and have backne occasionally) and assumed he was juicing. That's it, that's the extent of their proof.
Baseball writers like to play scientist and it hurts the league and the hall.
Baseball writers like to play scientist and it hurts the league and the hall.
My friends and I joked a lot about McGwire and Canseco being on steroids when they came up (nobody ever said anything about Bonds). Mainly because they were so outside the norm for a baseball player at the time. Now it's way more common for ballplayers in the US to look like football players or bodybuilders.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Its just as stupid and arbitrary as World Series titles won.
Yeah I hate this metric for individual players, but it rules so many people's minds.
A player can be top tier and just never have a full team that can do it.
A football example is Tom Brady. Great QB, but the end of the recent SB was sealed by a Patriots defender... however had he not picked off Russell people would think less of Brady overall. It's silly.
Frozenprince
Banned
Yes but one doesn't have "Champion" connected too it.
Or that before the most recent SB the Patriots championship teams were all defensive oriented and Tom Brady's job was to not turn the ball over. Yet the three rings made him an all time great which at the time (he would absolutely become one three years later) he wasn't. He was a good QB in a great situation.
Really what we're discussing is the difference between a results driven philosophy and a process driven one.
Some people think a baseball player with a 50 career WAR with an average of 3 WAR per year is better than a player with 100 career WAR with an average of 6 WAR per year if that lesser player is on teams that win multiple world series.
Similarly, a quarterback with a much lower average QB rating is better than a QB with a higher one if the lower quarterback wins lots of superbowls. They care about results, and the lower rated player got better results in both cases.
Of course, this would be referred to in science/statistical circles as "failing to control for extraneous variables."
Some people think a baseball player with a 50 career WAR with an average of 3 WAR per year is better than a player with 100 career WAR with an average of 6 WAR per year if that lesser player is on teams that win multiple world series.
Similarly, a quarterback with a much lower average QB rating is better than a QB with a higher one if the lower quarterback wins lots of superbowls. They care about results, and the lower rated player got better results in both cases.
Of course, this would be referred to in science/statistical circles as "failing to control for extraneous variables."
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yeah it's silly to only look at the end results in a vacuum. There are some players who are extremely clutch and do deserve high praise for that, while their overall average stats aren't great.
BigJonsson
Member
They already have 80 million committed towards the cap next season
The cap is expected to be around 70 million so they'll have to shed some salary
I'm not really sure they do deserve high praise. In some cases, I think the sense that someone is "clutch" is mostly illusory; what happens is that the player makes a couple clutch plays early on in their career, and then confirmation bias sets in, where any case that a person fails is seen as unusual.
When you look at (for instance) Brady or Jeter's lifetime postseason figures, or their figures in the red zone or with two strikes, their figures aren't clearly better than their historic norms nor are they better than players who are not perceived as "clutch" such as Peyton Manning or Albert Pujols. Please note that all of the people I just mentioned are hall of famers, and all have good postseason stats, but only the first two are viewed as "clutch" even though their actual performances are very similar.
And lastly, most players who truly do have better stats "in the clutch" -- that is, they aren't just perceived as such, and genuinely show much better numbers when playing in the postseason -- are often people with relatively small sample sizes. Frankly, I don't think it's fair to give a player significant kudos because he just so happened to get hot in the 10-15 postseason games he plays in his career, while another player has the misfortune of getting hot in the middle of a season for a couple weeks.
In short, I think some sports writers attribute this hot streak to magical clutch power, while I attribute it to random distribution. In any 10-15 game stretch, someone is going to be "hot."
HarryDemeanor
Member
Joe Maddon with permanent brain freeze from too much ice cream.
Purple Cheeto
Member
So is MLB gonna punish the Angels by forcing them to actually play Josh Hamilton?