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MLB 2014-2015 Offseason |OT| Playoff Dreaming

C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Random Q for Mariners fans: considering that the M's are somehow projected to be the best AL team next year, would you be comfortable with a Walker for Justin Upton+Shae Simmons trade?

Also, would that be preferable to keeping Walker but adding 4 years of Melky Cabrera?
 
C

chicagocubsfan

Member
Jon Lester getting himself some deep dish at Giordano's. Already a true Chicagoan.

253x450
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
I still don't see the value in dumping Kemp. It's stupid to do it now.

Dodgers who are in win now mode, dumped someone who started swinging the bat in a promising fashion late in the season. They have a plethora of outfielders who are just as questionable or worse as Kemp. I'm all for dumping him, but they probably could have gotten just as little during the campaign or after.

All they did was remove him from the equation. Money is apparently not an issue, and that is all they gained. Stupid.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Sanjuro said:
I still don't see the value in dumping Kemp. It's stupid to do it now.

Dodgers who are in win now mode, dumped someone who started swinging the bat in a promising fashion late in the season. They have a plethora of outfielders who are just as questionable or worse as Kemp. I'm all for dumping him, but they probably could have gotten just as little during the campaign or after.
Click to expand...

Kemp was the only one with any value that could actually bring something back in return. Eithier and Crawford are near impossible to trade. Kemp was one injury away from joining that bunch. He's had one good half in the last 3 years and is entering his 30s. Might as well sell high on him.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Kemp was the only one with any value that could actually bring something back in return. Eithier and Crawford are near impossible to trade. Kemp was one injury away from joining that bunch. He's had one good half in the last 3 years and is entering his 30s. Might as well sell high on him.
Click to expand...

I understand the desire for value, but the Dodgers are showing zero signs of payroll being an issue. The ownership group wants to win more than anyone else right now. If they were doing some "we broke" campaign, then maybe it would make more sense.
 
H

HarryDemeanor

Member
Sanjuro said:
I understand the desire for value, but the Dodgers are showing zero signs of payroll being an issue. The ownership group wants to win more than anyone else right now. If they were doing some "we broke" campaign, then maybe it would make more sense.
Click to expand...
One of the things Friedman and Co. wanted to do after taking over was getting rid of some of the big contracts and bring the overall salary down. I agree that it's weird to see a big market team with a big fat T.V. contract get smaller in payroll but I guess that's the moneyball thinking taking effect.

I'm sad to see Kemp go. Even though he was made of glass, he was exciting to watch. It's going to be weird to see him in something other than Dodger blue.

Now if Friedman can use his magic to grab Cole Hamels that'll be swell. Force Amaro to take Andre Ethier in the deal too.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
HarryDemeanor said:
One of the things Friedman and Co. wanted to do after taking over was getting rid of some of the big contracts and bring the overall salary down. I agree that it's weird to see a big market team with a big fat T.V. contract get smaller in payroll but I guess that's the moneyball thinking taking effect.

I'm sad to see Kemp go. Even though he was made of glass, he was exciting to watch. It's going to be weird to see him in something other than Dodger blue.

Now if Friedman can use his magic to grab Cole Hamels that'll be swell. Force Amaro to take Andre Ethier in the deal too.
Click to expand...

I'm absolutely fine with that reasoning if they are looking to get the payroll back down amongst the other top spenders. I just don't see it. They haven't mentioned it publicly, and their dealings suggest otherwise at the moment.
 
H

HarryDemeanor

Member
Sanjuro said:
I'm absolutely fine with that reasoning if they are looking to get the payroll back down amongst the other top spenders. I just don't see it. They haven't mentioned it publicly, and their dealings suggest otherwise at the moment.
Click to expand...
I agree. We'll just have to see where they're going with this.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
I think if Ethier and Crawford didn't exist, the Dodgers probably would have been fine taking the chance on keeping Kemp and running with Kemp/Puig/Pederson/VanSlyke as the OF next season. But Crawford and Ethier do exist. And they both make big money. And they both have damn near immovable contracts. I think the Dodgers had to take the chance to move one of those contracts, even if it was the one they might have hated the least, while they had the chance. Yeah there's a chance Kemp beasts in SD and the Pads might even be able to flip him to an AL team for a better prospect than Grandal, but in the roster/salary position the Dodgers were in I don't think they wanted to take that chance.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
They essentially traded him for a better 2nd baseman. I don't see how it's dumb.
Click to expand...

Because Gordon was being paid peanuts, he was good enough at 2nd, and his speed completely affects how pitchers have to pitch when he's on base. He's also younger, and supposedly the front office is trying to get the team younger. The Dodgers frequently trade for these older guys who are past their prime and it almost always bites them in the ass.

And frankly, Kendrick just isn't that good. There's a reason why all my Angels fan friends texted me with sarcastic "congratulations" text messages upon hearing the news.

HarryDemeanor said:
One of the things Friedman and Co. wanted to do after taking over was getting rid of some of the big contracts and bring the overall salary down. I agree that it's weird to see a big market team with a big fat T.V. contract get smaller in payroll but I guess that's the moneyball thinking taking effect.

I'm sad to see Kemp go. Even though he was made of glass, he was exciting to watch. It's going to be weird to see him in something other than Dodger blue.

Now if Friedman can use his magic to grab Cole Hamels that'll be swell. Force Amaro to take Andre Ethier in the deal too.
Click to expand...

If they wanted to lower salary then getting rid of Gordon makes no sense. They went from paying $700,000 to $9.5 million. Kendrick isn't anywhere near that much of an improvement. I get that's why they got rid of Kemp though, I just wish they could unload Ethier and Crawford somehow.

They'd better get rid of Brian Wilson and Brandon League while they're at it.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
timetokill said:
Because Gordon was being paid peanuts, he was good enough at 2nd, and his speed completely affects how pitchers have to pitch when he's on base. He's also younger, and supposedly the front office is trying to get the team younger. The Dodgers frequently trade for these older guys who are past their prime and it almost always bites them in the ass.

And frankly, Kendrick just isn't that good. There's a reason why all my Angels fan friends texted me with sarcastic "congratulations" text messages upon hearing the news.



If they wanted to lower salary then getting rid of Gordon makes no sense. They went from paying $700,000 to $9.5 million. Kendrick isn't anywhere near that much of an improvement. I get that's why they got rid of Kemp though, I just wish they could unload Ethier and Crawford somehow.

They'd better get rid of Brian Wilson and Brandon League while they're at it.
Click to expand...

By a lot of metrics Kendrick is a lot better than Gordon, and much more consistent.
 
B

brianjones

Member
ill concede kendrick is better but he could easily be gone next year

dodgers had dee for at least 4 more years

i'm surprised that dee is considered a below average defender.. when i think of his defense i think of highlight reel plays
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
brianjones said:
ill concede kendrick is better but he could easily be gone next year

dodgers had dee for at least 4 more years

i'm surprised that dee is considered a below average defender.. when i think of his defense i think of highlight reel plays
Click to expand...

But 4 years of an average player is still an average player. I don't think he'd be that hard to replace. He has great speed but everything else he does (OBP, power, hitting, defense) is decidedly average.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
brianjones said:
ill concede kendrick is better but he could easily be gone next year

dodgers had dee for at least 4 more years

i'm surprised that dee is considered a below average defender.. when i think of his defense i think of highlight reel plays
Click to expand...

They will miss him on the basepaths. That's about it. They got a guy who is proven right now, and they aren't really worried about long term.
 
O

Opiate

Member
I'm surprised Cardinals fans don't seem to like the Mark Reynolds signing.

I don't mean he's amazing player. I just mean he's basically shaped like the hole in our lineup, and we weren't going to get a 3 WAR player to be Matt Adams' backup.

It's the same problem I see with backup catcher; everyone seems to want a better backup than Tony Cruz, but in reality anyone who is above average doesn't have to settle with being the backup catcher to someone like Yadier who averages ~130 games per year.

Given that the spot Reynolds took is probably looking at ~200 at bats this year, I'm not sure we can expect to sign a better player for that role. We wanted someone who has power and hits lefties well, and the Cardinals got the one who is perhaps the best available that we can convince to play backup.
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
Opiate said:
I'm surprised Cardinals fans don't seem to like the Mark Reynolds signing.

I don't mean he's amazing player. I just mean he's basically shaped like the hole in our lineup, and we weren't going to get a 3 WAR player to be Matt Adams' backup.

It's the same problem I see with backup catcher; everyone seems to want a better backup than Tony Cruz, but in reality anyone who is above average doesn't have to settle with being the backup catcher to someone like Yadier who averages ~130 games per year.

Given that the spot Reynolds took is probably looking at ~200 at bats this year, I'm not sure we can expect to sign a better player for that role. We wanted someone who has power and hits lefties well, and the Cardinals got the one who is perhaps the best available that we can convince to play backup.
Click to expand...
On paper, it looks like a solid move. On paper, the Mark Ellis signing looked like a very solid move as well. I'm not unhappy about the Reynolds signing but I'm tempering my expectations at this point.

I think some fans wanted a better backup C in case Yadi misses time again or to save his legs for Sept/Oct (he's not catching 135 games/year forever). The dropoff to Cruz was so large last season that it spooked more than a few people. The flipside to getting a better backup C is that Yadi could do the platooning with Adams at 1B if you wanted to give his legs a rest.

The Reynolds signing gives us more depth at 3B but it doesn't "fix" the C issue. So I guess we just have to hope Yadi can hold up for another full season at C. Or that Cruz improves enough that he doesn't look like a deer in the headlights when pushed into a more prominent role.
 
H

HarryDemeanor

Member
What's holding back the Rollins deal going through? The medical for the Kemp trade? I know the report was they were shipping Eflin from that deal to the Phillies.
 
A

aFIGurANT

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
On paper, it looks like a solid move. On paper, the Mark Ellis signing looked like a very solid move as well. I'm not unhappy about the Reynolds signing but I'm tempering my expectations at this point.

I think some fans wanted a better backup C in case Yadi misses time again or to save his legs for Sept/Oct (he's not catching 135 games/year forever). The dropoff to Cruz was so large last season that it spooked more than a few people. The flipside to getting a better backup C is that Yadi could do the platooning with Adams at 1B if you wanted to give his legs a rest.

The Reynolds signing gives us more depth at 3B but it doesn't "fix" the C issue. So I guess we just have to hope Yadi can hold up for another full season at C. Or that Cruz improves enough that he doesn't look like a deer in the headlights when pushed into a more prominent role.
Click to expand...

Life after Molina is going to be a bitch, I agree. I'll have to look at Dioner Navarro's contract status but that would have been a nice pickup imo; assuming he still had a few years left he could have been slotted in a lot without a huge drop-off. The Cards definitely need to start putting their ears to the ground on the up-and-coming Catching prospects, that much is for sure.
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
aFIGurANT said:
Life after Molina is going to be a bitch, I agree. I'll have to look at Dioner Navarro's contract status but that would have been a nice pickup imo; assuming he still had a few years left he could have been slotted in a lot without a huge drop-off. The Cards definitely need to start putting their ears to the ground on the up-and-coming Catching prospects, that much is for sure.
Click to expand...
We're going to miss him when his career is over unless his successor is the next Bench/Pudge/etc. I think it's too early to discuss that (*knocks on wood*). Maybe Carson Kelly will pan out and be okay when that time comes.

But in the meantime, we can't run him into the ground just because the backup is awful.
 
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