Delta Assault
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MLB - 2015 Baseball Hall of Fame Class Inductees
- Thread starter Sanjuro
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What does this even mean.
Last I checked Barry had won the MVP multiple times before he even signed with the Giants. His first year with the Giants he hit nearly 50 homers. His best year for homers was really sort of an outlier and he was never even close to getting to that total ever again. Even if you take out all of the years he hit over 40 homers he'd still be hall of fame.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
OK, lets jump down this rabbit hole. Did these hitters that played in this so called 'steroid era' face tougher competition on the mound from the pitchers throwing faster, what about that fly ball that would have landed in the gap if not for a roid'd up outfielder chasing it down?
Or do you just propose that we throw that entire era of baseball out?
Skellig Gra
Member
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Bat speed is a contributor to a players ability to make contact with a ball
Mechanics could impact if they're hitting grounders, pop ups, line drives, etc.
One could be aided by PEDs and one can't
Sorry but Bonds should get in some day. PEDs or not, I don't care. PED's don't make someone have near perfect plate discipline and vision. Defenses had to adjust to him, as did pitchers, and not just minor adjustments like hugging the line or not throwing a fastball, teams would have to make major adjustments when Bonds came to the plate. Not many hall of fame players can claim that. He's also one of the few players in the 40/40 club (40 home runs and 40 stolen bases). He wasn't spectacular defensively, but definitely not a liability in the field like many power hitters.
To get slightly back on topic, I think Piazza not getting in is a massive crime
It's not really. He'll get in at some point. The problem now is there are far more deserving players who are clogging up the votes now.
So not only are you not informed enough to speak on the subject, you're completely ignorant. Ok then.
To say that Jeter didn't have better talent around him is patently false.
You also missed the part where Biggie has better stats.
I agree he'll get in eventually, I just think he should get in sooner than later
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Ninja Scooter
Member
No PIazza. No Clemens. No Bonds. No Edgar. But a guy who was pretty good and played for a really long time is in so it's all good. Let's just rename it the Hall of Pretty Good.
There are only a few guys besides pitchers in the game that single handedly change the game. There's a reason why Jeff Kent and Rich Aurillia are even on the ballot. Are you not going to vote for Jeff Kent because he benefitted from a guy who you suspected of using PED's? I get not wanting to award someone that is borderline but not voting for Bonds is not voting for one of the greatest players of all time.
matthewwhatever
Member
Really? Like...really? Either you don't know what "borderline" means, or you don't follow baseball. Bonds pre-1998 (which is when he's alleged to have started using) was still one of the best players in baseball history. The only way he'd have been borderline is if your Hall of Fame consists entirely of Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Willie Mays and Walter Johnson.
You absolutely have no clue what you're talking about, and you call me ignorant?
Oh my.
Please. Tell me how Biggio (a lead-off hitter even) would be a better player with more talent around him?
TarpitCarnivore
Member
i shouldn't have used the word borderline, so my mistake and i'll own up to that. for whatever reason my mind separates Pirates Bonds from Giants Bonds, so that's probably where my mistake came from.
AAAnonymous
Banned
LOL joker. So you're saying Bonds would have hit 70 HR in one season without the PEDs. It's just natural for a 36 year guy to just start finding his stroke at that age.
His pre-PED(?) best was 83 HR in TWO years and 930 at bats when he was 28-29 years old. Then at age 36 he hit 73 HR in 476 at bats. "PEDs don't suddenly make you swing a bat better." It takes a couple weeks I guess.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Barry Bones OBP'd over .600 one year. SIX FUCKING HUNDRED. He was on base 60% of the time for an entire year. I don't care if he injected bull semen directly into this eyeballs that alone is Hall worthy.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Biggio was more than well known. he was one of the top second baseman. exposure was not his problem.
what about them?
no they don't.
then the outfielder with superhuman roided legs would jump higher and catch it. PEDs mean shit.
batting mechanics. it's very important.
I think you are confused with the swinging the bat part.
Well for starters, he wasn't a lead off hitter his whole career, so theres that. Secondly, with better talent around him, they would have gone to the playoffs more, and could have gotten the world series that Jeter got. Or he could have batted more, because better hitters getting more hits in the lineup gets more at bats for everyone in the lineup.
How bout you address the part where he has better stats than Jeter, unless you don't think Jeter doesn't deserve to be in the hall?
Again, you don't know about biggio, which is fine. you live somewhere on the east cost, as I recall your a red sox fan.
yeah no, i'm not buying that at all
entremet
Member
Exactly.
Bonds just doesn't have the PED accusation against him. The sportswriters hated him too. And they are petty fucks.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
He already was an amazing hitter with a great eye for the ball. It's not like he was some scrub player on the fringe of hitting the minors and was juicing so he could hit the weights more (Brady Anderson what's up!)
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Interesting joke you've got there.
Ninja Scooter
Member
We don't know when guys did and didn't start using PEDS. We don't know how many of the players they played against were using PEDS. We don't know if the league and their teams advocated them using PEDS (though they basically did until the fire got too hot for them). We do know that, based on the guys who have been caught in recent years, plenty of scrubs use and remain scrubs (hello Jesus Montero) so it's not some magical elixir that can turn crap players into good players. What everyone needs to do is just let it go, get the fuck over the PED thing, and judge players based on what they did on the field and the numbers they put up. Plain and simple.
Yes, I think Piazza will get in, but I think someone who deserves to get in won't get in because the votes are clogged. Tim Raines is an excellent example here.
The problem is that they've spent so many years just letting 1-2 people in that even 3-4 per year for the next 8 years might not be sufficient.
You are kind of coming across as an asshole here, and largely basing your information off a Houston Astros fan article. Regardless, I'll still educate you.
Baseball is largely an individual sport. What other players are doing are largely irrelevant to your legacy. Sure, you might not get the sexy votes and achievements, but you will be recognized. Especially in this era. He played lead-off for a healthy portion of his career. Especially in his most "prolific" years.
He also doesn't have better stats than Jeter. He beats Jeter in some specific categories for sure. I'd have to look at the numbers more, but I'd probably gauge that Jeter might lack in some categories, while he certainly had more important individual seasons than Biggio. I still think Jeter is overrated to a degree, although that is a separate argument.
East coast doesn't know anything about baseball? Heh. Good luck with that.
matthewwhatever
Member
Barry Bonds Was An Alien God Who Destroyed Space-Time To Bring Us Joy
I guess, but even then, I direct you to that link above. The most relevant stat:
Forget Tim Raines; he's still on the ballot and still has a chance. Look at guys like Kenny Lofton and Kevin Brown; both fairly deserving candidates with numbers that would make them mid-tier HOFers, both gone after one time on the ballot.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I really don't like how Baseball HoF voters let their petty grievances and "tradition" get in the way of common sense. "Oh, this guy can't be a first ballot HoFer because this guy in 1989 wasn't."
Someone not voting for Johnson or Pedro are like the morons who didn't vote for Reggie Miller or Don Nelson for the NBA HoF.
Oh, and Bonds was a HoFer before PEDs.
Someone not voting for Johnson or Pedro are like the morons who didn't vote for Reggie Miller or Don Nelson for the NBA HoF.
Oh, and Bonds was a HoFer before PEDs.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Thank you!
as are you.
That's not what i said. I said I don't expect someone on the east coast to know about someone outside the east coast, IE Biggio, case in point, you said Biggio was a lead off hitter, yes he was, but not his whole career. Also you keep moving the goal posts by saying that, then when I correct you, you just ignore it, then saying baseball is an individual sport, etc etc.
Also the article I linked you is not from a Houston Astros fan site... nor is it Astros specific. But good try.
Anyway, ill let you continue to be bitter that Biggio got in. All I care about is that he got in, so whatever.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I will tell my grandkids about the time I saw Craig Biggio up at the plate (and thought Oh this guys still around, huh?)
Nothing worse than the baseball HOF voters. Bonds and Clemens not being in the HOF is an absolute joke. 80's-2000's had hundreds, if not thousands of players using steroids, it was part of the era, these guys still played against other juiced up dudes and crushed all their numbers.
Add that to the fact that some of these self righteous douchebags won't even vote for people 'suspected' of steroids use is insane. These idiots will start to die off and the younger writers with some sense will finally get these legends into the hall, but it's annoying we have to wait.
Add that to the fact that some of these self righteous douchebags won't even vote for people 'suspected' of steroids use is insane. These idiots will start to die off and the younger writers with some sense will finally get these legends into the hall, but it's annoying we have to wait.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
You know what's even more criminal than Bonds and Clemens not being in: Pete fucking Rose
Violence Jack
Member
All well deserved. Three of my favorite pitchers. Still can't believe Piazza isn't in. He should have been 1st ballot.
I wish Griffey Jr. were eligible this year so that he and Randy could go into the Hall together.
It's a shame that Pedro will always be remembered for this though/
I wish Griffey Jr. were eligible this year so that he and Randy could go into the Hall together.
It's a shame that Pedro will always be remembered for this though/
Gosh, its almost as if there is more to baseball than power hitting.
lazybones18
Banned
All well deserved. Three of my favorite pitchers. Still can't believe Piazza isn't in. He should have been 1st ballot.
I wish Griffey Jr. were eligible this year so that he and Randy could go into the Hall together.
It's a shame that Pedro will always be remembered for this:
if only Don Zimmer were alive to talk about Pedro at the induction ceremony >.>
Not really. You're being pretty hostile for some reason.
You worded it in a manner which doesn't reflect this. And...goal posts? I've answered your questions. You just don't have solid answers.
It was a good try apparently.
How am I bitter? It's a bit of a joke, so I'm sharing the same opinion as most people. I even said he would have probably gotten in anyway. The big issue here is when you have Biggio and Bagwell. Two players who played together their entire careers and are deserving of HoF recognition...and you choose Biggio who was never the best at anything in his career?
Eh.
You will never win this argument because of the well known East coast bias. According to them all professional sports leagues end at the Mississippi River and there is nothing west of that but desolate wasteland.
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