Dmncnby2k9
Banned
Hey so Tulos gone huh?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
MLB 2015 Regular Season |OT2| NES Baseball, Best Baseball
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
Holy shit, Tulo!
For any Jays fans ambivalent about the trade: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/troy-tulowitzki-the-blue-jays-and-upgrading-strengths/
For any Jays fans ambivalent about the trade: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/troy-tulowitzki-the-blue-jays-and-upgrading-strengths/
The Elite
BOSS
Jays need pitching if they want to catch up to the Yankees and win the division. What are we willing to give up for that though?
Our bullpen looks better now with Hawkins in there but he's 100 years old.
Thank you AA for doing an amazing job last off-season.
edit: wtf. Jose Reyes was traded? We need pitching though!
Fucking Wilpons. Smh.
"A run is a run."
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Really confused as to why folks are acting like Tulo is a huge upgrade over Reyes. Honestly think its a downgrade if anything.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Rockies fans love Tulu, so it's not really surprising the owners would trade him. Apathy for Rockies fans is the Monforts #1 priority.
We need a way to trade those two.
We need a way to trade those two.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Tulo can't even play 100 games a year playing in colorado. Not sure how the hell his body is going to hold up playing on concrete.
Steamer has Tulo at about half a win of an upgrade for the rest over Reyes. Honestly think I'd rather have Reyes contract too, 3 years less than Tulo. And they gave up some prospects to get this deal done too. I just don't get how the Blue Jays can make a trade and it not involving a SP at this point.
Steamer has Tulo at about half a win of an upgrade for the rest over Reyes. Honestly think I'd rather have Reyes contract too, 3 years less than Tulo. And they gave up some prospects to get this deal done too. I just don't get how the Blue Jays can make a trade and it not involving a SP at this point.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
um Offensively and defensively hes a huge upgrade
Yeah god forbid he trade for the best SS in baseball
But a pitcher!!!1111 an upgrade is an upgrade son
I 100% agree with you. The trade in a vacuum is fine, it's not like the prospects were ranked crazy high. But the Jays farm system is BARREN, and you either have to keep those pieces and trade Buerhle and realize your stupid ALL OFFENSE ALL THE TIME experiment has failed for 5 straight seasons now, and go all in this year and get a stud ace and pay the cash to get Papelbon.
Now Buerhle, Bautista and Encarnacion are all going to leave either this Fall or next, with no playoffs to speak of, with the Fan 590 discussing in 2017 just how long it'll be til Tulo comes back from his thumb injury and what happened to Marcus Stroman who everyone thought was going to be the savior (RICKY GOD DAMN ROMERO!).
Rage over.
matthewwhatever
Member
Nope, still hate it. Head over to Baseball Reference and take a look at Tulo's advanced numbers: they're down all across the board. Declining power numbers, the highest SO% he's had in years (and the lowest walk percentage of his career), an aging curve that looks eerily familiar...obviously he's starting out from a higher point than Reyes, but that doesn't mean much. When skills start to go, there's no telling how quickly it happens -- and Tulo is very clearly on the downside of his career. And on top of all that, he's as frail as Reyes was, so it's not like at least they got some durability out of this. We'll still be watching starting lineups with Goins as an offensive black hole right at the bottom 50-60 times a year, except now we'll be seeing that until 2021 instead of 2018.
And all that doesn't even take into account how dire the Jays' pitching is. By any measure it's one of the worst staffs in baseball, and we've seen time and again that they're capable of blowing any lead. And now there are three fewer prospects who could potentially have helped with that. Obviously, since they'll be playing in Coors we'll probably never see their true talent level, but losing a top prospect like Hoffman is going to hurt next year when the pitching staff is...uh...Stroman and a bunch of guys on who can't make it past the fifth inning.
chicagocubsfan
Member
CarGo is going to get moved now too. Mets should get him, but the $$$ is probably an issue there.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
All this talk about Tulo being an upgrade defensively isn't based on numbers. It's kind of sad to see folks like Jonah Keri actually say ignore every single defensive statistic because they want to say Tulo is an upgrade defensively over Reyes and the numbers don't match the narrative of Reyes being a total dumpster fire defensively.
Aren't you basing this on half a season of data though? Historically Tulo is a much better defender. Reyes hasn't been a good defender in like 8 years. Probably not as bad as people think, generally, but not good.
matthewwhatever
Member
Have you seen Reyes play defense lately? He has zero range. I was going to say that he could only handle balls hit directly at him, then I remembered a few times this year where he couldn't even do that. As much as I hate this trade in every other respect, I refuse to believe that the Jays haven't marginally improved their infield defense.
Dmncnby2k9
Banned
You want him?
Not really, but if they got him without giving up much I wouldn't complain.
The Elite
BOSS
Best way to understand what you're getting is to read comments from the other team's fans regarding the trade.
CosmicQueso
Member
Holy George Bell Jays fans. Chill the fuck out.
It's the Tuesday BEFORE the trading deadline, not the Tuesday after it.
FFS get a hold of yourselves.
Even if you don't package Troy up in another deal, he's a 5+ WAR player when he's right, and he's 1.7 this year vs Reyes' 3+/0.6 this year. So it's arguably an improvement on its own.
But there's still 4 days left to get other deals done.
Man, Jays fans, for the love of Kelly Gruber, relax.
I feel for Rockies fans. They put 4.5 million people in the stands in 1993, now they get just better than half of that due to inept and antagonizing management. This is definitely not an upgrade for them.
It's the Tuesday BEFORE the trading deadline, not the Tuesday after it.
FFS get a hold of yourselves.
Even if you don't package Troy up in another deal, he's a 5+ WAR player when he's right, and he's 1.7 this year vs Reyes' 3+/0.6 this year. So it's arguably an improvement on its own.
But there's still 4 days left to get other deals done.
Man, Jays fans, for the love of Kelly Gruber, relax.
I feel for Rockies fans. They put 4.5 million people in the stands in 1993, now they get just better than half of that due to inept and antagonizing management. This is definitely not an upgrade for them.
My concern is who does he move to get it? I know Paps can still be had just for cash if they really want, but who? The Jays farm system batting depth is a black hole of talent, nobody anyone would want.
Unless they move a roster player or a combo of Stroman/Osuna/Norris/Sanchez, I have a hard time seeing it.
of the 4 norris can go. or maybe a level down, move boyd/pompey/smoral etc. tough to move pentecost (selling low as he's hurt) but who knows. maybe fetch a leake/cashner.
Silver Arrows
Banned
All these casual Jays fans coming out of the woodwork :jnc:
They are around. Unfortunately their hockey team requires them to be blackout drunk more often than not.
Silver Arrows
Banned
I know. And since they aren't imploding, they watch the Jays until training camp starts.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Dave Cameron had an interesting article about why the Jays might have gone for a bat instead of pitching
Conventional wisdom tells us that it's good to have a balance of pitching and hitting, it's maybe not that important. It might actually be better to add better bats to an already very good offenaive lineup because of the way they interact with eachother (ie it's not linear). So Reyes->Tulo is likely a bigger upgrade than a new starter (also more yrs of control, so maybe the Jays are playing for 2016 not 2015)
Sort of the same thing with the idea that you want to stack either OBP or SLG and not necessarily a balance of both
Dunno how accurate it is though
Conventional wisdom tells us that it's good to have a balance of pitching and hitting, it's maybe not that important. It might actually be better to add better bats to an already very good offenaive lineup because of the way they interact with eachother (ie it's not linear). So Reyes->Tulo is likely a bigger upgrade than a new starter (also more yrs of control, so maybe the Jays are playing for 2016 not 2015)
Sort of the same thing with the idea that you want to stack either OBP or SLG and not necessarily a balance of both
Dunno how accurate it is though
How are people mad? We got Tulo and didn't give up any of the big prospects (Jeff Hoffman mayyyyybe ..#76 on baseball prospectus) but still...this is a core of Donaldson/Tulo/Travis/Martin + Pillar/Pompey for the next couple years and I'm excited about it.
Yea it would have been nice to get pitching..but for the price the Jays paid you would get someone like Tyson Ross. Someone like Shark would have been way more. And their bullpen isn't the absolute train wreck which it is made out to be..many times the SP was knocked out before the 4th and the bullpen was able to hold it down for the Jays to catch up. Closing out games has been a little bit more rough but with Sanchez and Hawkings in there now it seems more than capable.
Still a couple days to go out an acquire a Kenney/Gallardo type which should help them get the wildcard then smash Keuchel in the Wildcard Game. Jays win it 8-7
...fingers crossed for Carrasco
Yea it would have been nice to get pitching..but for the price the Jays paid you would get someone like Tyson Ross. Someone like Shark would have been way more. And their bullpen isn't the absolute train wreck which it is made out to be..many times the SP was knocked out before the 4th and the bullpen was able to hold it down for the Jays to catch up. Closing out games has been a little bit more rough but with Sanchez and Hawkings in there now it seems more than capable.
Still a couple days to go out an acquire a Kenney/Gallardo type which should help them get the wildcard then smash Keuchel in the Wildcard Game. Jays win it 8-7
after Tulo hits a grad slam in the top of the 9th. and Hawkings comes in to finish it off after Osuna gives up 3 runs in the bottom of the inning.
...fingers crossed for Carrasco
Frozenprince
Banned
Jays are not done making trades, per Heyman. Looking at Padres arms to supplement rotation.
Also, value is value. A run you gain by adding Tulo means just as much as the run you take away by adding better pitching. The net value is the same. So adding Tulo isn't a bad move, especially for a couple of nice prospects, a wild card, and an old Jose.
Also, value is value. A run you gain by adding Tulo means just as much as the run you take away by adding better pitching. The net value is the same. So adding Tulo isn't a bad move, especially for a couple of nice prospects, a wild card, and an old Jose.
User 479360
Banned
This is a really shocking trade. I'm still processing it.
Reyes for Tulowitzki sounds good to me, but giving up more prospects sucks. Bautista's certainly not going to be happy, though.
Reyes for Tulowitzki sounds good to me, but giving up more prospects sucks. Bautista's certainly not going to be happy, though.
Frozenprince
Banned
Mets wont add anybody of note because of money. Unless we get a team to eat the majority of it.
sf2fanatic
Member
ESPN bringing back his commercial!!
Frozenprince
Banned
chicagocubsfan
Member
Hoffman was up to mid 30's on a few prospect lists midseason. I think he's gonna be really good
Dmncnby2k9
Banned
best commercial ever!!
Frozenprince
Banned
Carrasco isn't going anywhere. Indians would be dumb to move him.
sf2fanatic
Member
I agree it's a great commercial.
matthewwhatever
Member
It happens any time the Jays do anything of note. There were a lot of them around late May/early June last year, too, when the Jays were leading the division and on a big winning streak. They'll vanish as soon as they realize the playoff drought isn't ending this year.
Silver Arrows
Banned
I guess it'll make the playoff thread a bit more unbearable again. If we make it, of course.
It would surprise me if they went after a big name starter now, but surely they can upgrade Felix freakin' Doubront without giving up much? I mean, seriously. I don't think the Jays need an ace to contend, just a more reliable bullpen (which they have now with Sanchez and Hawkins), and a middle of the rotation starter.