Crimson_Gold
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The all inclusive resort life
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MLB 2017 Regular Season OT - 108 years in the making
- Thread starter chicagocubsfan
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The all inclusive resort life
Do you fully understand all the stats I listed? Honest question.
You are again fixated on Gwynn and his hits and not the quality of those hits (weighted on base). BA and total hits are a bad way to rate a player and is often done when more advanced stats are ignored.
Abreu managed to hit more doubles and homers than Gwynn while having less PA and total hits. He managed to get on base at a higher rate than Gwynn despite a lower BA. He stole more bases than Gwynn and generally was a better base runner.
Gwynn is good but his stats are overrated because in general BA and total hits are often overrated (not that they're not important)
He is not head and shoulders above guys like Tim Raines or Barry Larkin as a complete player and he is not top 25 player but some rate him as he is. Just look at his HoF vote % compared to those guys.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
In ARod's case it would have been nandrolone, stanazolol and HGH.
Ah yes.
Left unprotected by the Astros in the expansion draft. (was either him or Richard Hidalgo)
The then Tampa Bay Devil Rays picked him... then traded him for Kevin Stocker to the Phillies. (LOL)
Dominican Power
Member
Does Harvey realize that he doesn't hold the same value as he did pre Tommy John?
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world series hangover is real
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i'd be pretty shocked if they don't win the division by at least 5 games, but it's baseball, so who the fuck knows. ugly shit right now.
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actually on second thought i can no longer support ricketts
2 pages late but I don't think Gwynn is overrated. The thing is that there's a few players that provided similar or more value via different, less gaudy stats (in this case, hits) that get completely underrated. Tim Raines being the most obvious one.
Abreu is another, I think he's borderline HOF but he's missing something memorable. He had like 12-13 years of boring excellence which is something, imo. Amazing. Brian Giles is another one, he was perhaps even more boring than Abreu though, he falls a bit short of hof for me.
Abreu also had the bad luck of the Phillies going to playoffs once he leaves and the Yankees missing playoffs for the first time in forever after he arrives, whoops!
Abreu is another, I think he's borderline HOF but he's missing something memorable. He had like 12-13 years of boring excellence which is something, imo. Amazing. Brian Giles is another one, he was perhaps even more boring than Abreu though, he falls a bit short of hof for me.
Abreu also had the bad luck of the Phillies going to playoffs once he leaves and the Yankees missing playoffs for the first time in forever after he arrives, whoops!
Rockies looks like good
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Cubs will be fine unless the rotation troubles are indicative of injury. The rotation is pretty old.
Still think they should have traded Schwarber for a cost controlled young pitcher tbh
Still think they should have traded Schwarber for a cost controlled young pitcher tbh
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that's what happ and cease are for
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I just don't think Schwarber is that good. He has to be a really good hitter to compensate for his fielding
His career/projected 116 wRC+ (in only like 400 PA no less) isn't good for a guy who is a liability in the field.
He's Matt Adams with prospect hype (and maybe a little better fielding). And my feelings on Adams are well known.
He'll be an excellent DH.
BFIB
Member
I've always felt Schwarber was the chips for future moves, I still feel that way. He will always carry that WS run last year as the pedestal to stand on. He's had 352 plate appearances. Too early to call, but he just has AL type written all over him.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Is Dexter Fowler going to ever play again
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so many bad things about this post. schwarber could easily end up sucking, but you're basing this on 30 games of at-bats after he basically had 1.5 calendar years off..
and if he does end up sucking, there was absolutely no reason to think that in the offseason, which is when you think he should have been traded. there was reason to believe he'd be a big strikeout guy, but everything pointed to him being a very good hitter, and you don't trade very good young hitters for starting pitching. that's how you gets mets. do you want mets?
oh, and the matt adams comp is preposterous. adams was not a first round pick, didn't hit like scwharber did in the minors, and is not remotely comparable in terms of defense. schwarber is not good defensively, but he's not close to as bad as you seem to think, certainly not in the same stratosphere as matt fucking adams.
detectiveconan1
Member
Two infielders go on the DL and we call up a catcher? So now that we have three catchers on the roster I guess Realmuto will get some time at 1B?
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Player A: career .271/.316/.454, 111 wRC+ (
Matt Adams, )
Kyle Schwarber)
Both came into the majors and put up a ~135 wRC+ in ~300 PA. Adams put up a 116 wRC+ the following year, which is funnily enough what Schwarber is projected for! Adams is also projected as a better defender in terms of defensive WAR than Schwarber, largely because Adams is actually pretty good at 1B. Schwarber would be good at 1B, but he's blocked by Rizzo and is playing the corner OF where he's bad.
Scwarber has a full season's worth of minor league PAs to his name, with only 300 of those at AA or above, plus ~400 MLB PA. And those MLB PA are pretty close to what Adams has done for his career!
If only Matt Adams had the draft pedigree of Kyle Schwarber instead of being drafted out of Slippery Rock University (powerhouse college baseball program) in the 23rd round. That's basically the difference, except Adams walks and strikes out less while Schwarber walks and strikes out more which evens out.
Sorry that a player you thought was going to be a cornerstone of your team maybe isn't that good.
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man you're honestly one of the most annoyingly obtuse people i've ever seen talk about sports. for a while i thought you were trolling, but i really think you believe the tediously wrong shit you say.
-using tiny sample sizes to try and equate 2 players when you know perfectly well that matt adams never had comparable trade value or was as highly thought of as schwarber was going into this season (adams was never even a top 100 prospect, ffs)
-then ignoring the fact that matt adams has 5 years of age and over 1000 PA more than kyle schwarber which confirm that he sucks, while schwarber's struggles consist of a whole 30 games. oh, and while you have no problem using uselessly small sample sizes, it's funny how you don't bother to include postseason stats from 2015 or 2016.
-comparing schwarber's decimation (albeit for only a combined full season) of the minors after being drafted to adams' minor league progression
your argument here is basically "kyle schwarber could be matt adams in 5 years if he ends up sucking as badly as matt adams for the next 5 years" okay, cool. good stuff there, harold.but again, this wasn't even the argument. you say dumb shit, then when it gets pointed out that it was kind of dumb, you try to change the argument into some other stupid shit. and then of course you end it with some obnoxious bullshit about how how i'm being biased, even though i've already said that kyle is worrying me and he could suck. you have this obsession with the cubs. you need to let it go.
BFIB- come clean up your boy, he's a mess
Carpe Libertatem
Member
My entire point is that Matt Adams is Schwarber without the prospect pedigree/hype, so yeah. It is very true that Adams never had comparable trade value or was as highly thought of as Schwarber! You don't get either of those things by being a 23rd round pick from Slippery Rock University.
Scwarber's "decimation" of AAA for two and a half weeks with a .500 BABIP is not something to go with going forward, fwiw. But you also want me to use 50 PA of postseason play, so whatever, small sample sizes are your thing as long as they support what you think. I'll take 400 PA of MLB play over 300 PA of AA/AAA PA, either way.
But anyway, you can just look at the projections for Schwarber if you think I'm being biased because I hate the Cubs. Always a chance he turns things around, but it's not exactly looking up!
edit: per steamer, Adams is 2.1 WAR/600PA, Schwarber is 2.2. per ZiPS, Adams is 1.7 WAR/600PA, Schwarber is 1.5.
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it's silly to compare schwarber's peak value (this past offseason) to the value that matt adams has had at any point in his career (it's amusing that you think he's comparable to adams, yet is good enough to have gotten a good cost-controlled starter). it's also silly that you seem to think adams draft status is relevant to this conversation at all. oh, and i'm not even going to bother asking why you cherry picked only aaa for schwarber right there when i obviously was talking about all his stints together. you're all over the place.
again, your entire argument here is "schwarber will be matt adams in 5 years if he sucks like matt adams for the next 5 years". that's really all it is, because matt adams was not comparable to schwarber at that stage of his career, and blindly using tiny sample sizes of at-bats to pretend they are is silly. the potential was and is higher for schwarber. maybe he ends up sucking like adams, or maybe not.
anyways, i'm pretty much done with your two-bit trolling. maybe i'll just use gifs to respond to you from now on.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Obviously Schwarber had more value than Adams ever did. That's exactly why I think the Cubs should have traded him! :lol
Through their first ~415 MLB PA, Adams had a 126 wRC+ and Schwarber has a 116 wRC+. So I guess maybe Adams was better than Schwarber at the same stage of their careers.
Keep bringing up minor league PA, though. It matters less and less with every PA Schwarber takes in the big leagues.
detectiveconan1
Member
Wow an ejection for a strike that was several inches off the plate? Fuck these umps
Original Famous Ray
Member
Nice first inning for the Mets.
Dominican Power
Member
You can't stop the reign.
Remember when the Yankees were winning games and didn't even have Gary or Didi in the lineup?
They were winning without Gardner hitting.
Also with Bird being a black hole in the lineup.
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do i really need to explain to you the problem with small sample sizes? kyle schwarber had a "career" .262/.373/.524 line going into this season. one terrible month later and his OPS drops 100+ points. so did he go from adam dunn to matt adams in one month? is that how you think this works? add in the circumstances (having played like 5 games over the previous 18 months) and your usage of this tiny amount of data gets even more silly.
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