• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

MLB Off-season Thread 2015-2016 IOTI Back to the Future was a lie

I mostly mean that's just how the Cardinals operate. Trading Shelby was more the exception rather than the norm, and only happened because our RF of the future died
That plus the fact that we had a lot more pitching depth at the time so it was a matter of dealing from a strength to address a weakness. Reyes is practically the only star prospect we have right now who's remotely close to the majors. No way Mo let's him go that easily.
 

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
I think that explains not signing high price players..

XyL3VQw.gif
 
Watching Matt Vasgerian and Harold Reynolds talk about Heyward and UZR and "100 million dollar players" and "looking at the back of a baseball card" makes me want to vomit. Vasgerian should just stick to highlights because he sounds like a moron.
 

RBH

Member
mktck3szyewbpsvsapw7.jpg


The San Diego Padres selected Matt Bush with the first overall pick in the 2004 MLB draft. He was a local boy, born and raised in San Diego, starring at shortstop and pitcher for Mission Bay. But he never got any higher than AA ball, as a string of injuries then legal problems derailed his career. He’s struggled with alcoholism his entire career, and was sentenced to just over four years in prison back in 2012 when he ran over a 72-year-old motorcyclist then fled the scene and blew a .18.

The since-converted pitcher signed a minor league deal with the Texas Rangers yesterday and will report to spring training in Arizona in February. Bush told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram:

“I didn’t really pay attention to the baseball world for a while because it was too hard for me,” said Bush, who spent most of his prison time at Hamilton Correctional Institution in Jasper, Fla. He engrossed himself in books and exercise to pass the time and eventually enjoyed playing softball behind bars. When he was able to begin a work-release program earlier this year he threw a baseball for the first time in a couple of years.

Bush lasted five years with the Padres until they traded him after he beat up some high school lacrosse players while screaming, “I’m Matt fucking Bush!” Just a few weeks into his tenure with the Blue Jays organization, he got released for assaulting a woman at a party in Florida. Bush now claims he has been sober since the DUI that landed him in prison, and he’ll live with his father and follow a strict plan from the Rangers:

“There are going to be certain areas where there can’t be any gray area,” Daniels said, which includes no alcohol and no driving. “[We’ll have] zero tolerance there.”

Legally, Bush is now clear and there is no pending suspension by MLB.

He’ll report to spring training on Feb. 1. His father, Danny, will accompany him to spring training and live with him wherever he’s assigned, which likely could be Double A Frisco.

The Rangers have had success with Josh Hamilton when he was in a similar position. Bush is, of course, a different case, but committing to players who struggle with addiction is not easy, and they have a proven record of helping them.
http://deadspin.com/former-first-overall-pick-matt-bush-is-out-of-prison-an-1748870032
 
Cubs-Cards gonna be sooo good in 2016.

While recently departed Jason Heyward was high in his praise of the Cardinals’ organization as he forsook it to sign with the Chicago Cubs for eight years and $184 million, he made it clear that he was less comfortable with the Cardinals’ core in the long-term than he was with the Cubs. Chicago has a younger brand in position-player stars such as Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo and Addison Russell.

The Cardinals’ well-over-30 core of Yadier Molina, Matt Holliday and Adam Wainwright isn’t going to be around that much longer, Heyward said.

“You have Yadier who is going to be done in two years maybe,” Heyward told Chicago reporters. “You have Matt Holliday who is probably going to be done soon.

“There were already moves made with Jon Jay gone and then Tony Cruz and Wainwright is probably going to be done in three or four years. ... Guys like that are what really introduced me to the St. Louis Cardinals’ organization. I felt like if I was to look up and in three years see a completely different team, that would be difficult.”

Cardinals manager Mike Matheny, upon hearing Heyward’s sentiments, said, “I don’t think it’s going to ring too well with our club.

“I told Jason this before. I’ve got a lot of respect for Jason as a person. He’s got to go make the decisions he’s going to have to live with. If that (core group comparison) is a big deal to him, he’s just being honest with people.

“But I don’t think we have anything to apologize for in having a group like a Holliday, a Molina, a Wainwright. Those are the kinds of guys everybody wants on a club.

“I see where he’s coming from. I mean, look at what Chicago’s done. It’s very unique in this game — to have that many impact players at that young age. And he’s a young player. But I can’t say I’m in any kind of agreement with that (Chicago) core being better than any kind of core that we have.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
 
his comments weren't dumb. he was 100% accurate. he just told the truth, and sometimes people don't like hearing the truth. player-speak is boring, i like when guys tell what kind of things actually went into their decision.

this is just another example of the cardinals and their fans thinking that everyone is dying to play in "baseball heaven". if they don't, it must be because they're dumb and made the wrong decision.
 
his comments weren't dumb. he was 100% accurate. he just told the truth, and sometimes people don't like hearing the truth. player-speak is boring, i like when guys tell what kind of things actually went into their decision.

this is just another example of the cardinals and their fans thinking that everyone is dying to play in "baseball heaven". if they don't, it must be because they're dumb and made the wrong decision.

He took the better contract, that's for sure. More AAV, a quicker opt out, and a second opt out make it better than whatever the Cardinals offered.

But his comments that the Cardinals core is "too old" and that he doesn't know where they the players will be in a few years is dumb. Because he'll be opting out of his contract at that time either way. Why does he care that Holliday, Wainwright, and Molina are going to be gone in a few years when he'll be gone at the same time? That's the "player speak" if anything.
 
He took the better contract, that's for sure. More AAV, a quicker opt out, and a second opt out make it better than whatever the Cardinals offered.

But his comments that the Cardinals core is "too old" and that he doesn't know where they the players will be in a few years is dumb. Because he'll be opting out of his contract at that time either way. Why does he care that Holliday, Wainwright, and Molina are going to be gone in a few years when he'll be gone at the same time? That's the "player speak" if anything.
It's not like players don't re-up after optouts. CC Sabathia being one example. And I wouldn't characterize him as disloyal or following the money just because he left a team he was traded to for 1 season. If he enjoys being on the team and ownership wants to keep him in 3 years then I'm sure we have a good shot at it.
 
It's not like players don't re-up after optouts. CC Sabathia being one example. And I wouldn't characterize him as disloyal or following the money just because he left a team he was traded to for 1 season. If he enjoys being on the team and ownership wants to keep him in 3 years then I'm sure we have a good shot at it.

If player re-ups, it'll be for more money. Which is the entire point of an opt out.

I wouldn't characterize him as disloyal or anything. But he's following the money, which is what just about every player in Heyward's situation does (and should do). Nothing wrong with that.
 

BFIB

Member
Eh, Heywards comments don't really bother me. Our younger core haven't quite proved themselves yet. Until Wacha,CMart, Piscotty, Wong, Grichuk put together a full season, there's question marks.

Not that the Cub's don't have some as well, but it was a better deal, bottom line.
 

zroid

Banned
Shit I'm really tempted to get a 4K TV on Boxing Day since all Blue Jays game next year are gonna be available in 4K

Dunno if I want to drop $1000+ right now... :'(
 
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/why-blaming-shapiro-for-price-grass-misses-the-point/

Stephen Brunt decides to lick the nuts of his corporate overlords and say that every Jays fan that blames Shapiro for losing Price or not putting in grass is missing the big picture

No, Brunt. I don't care about Price. We were never getting him anyway. What I care about is this team getting quality free agents into that shithole of a stadium you call home, and natural grass is the easiest way to do that. You know that, right?

The fact that Sportsnet wants to constantly demean Jays fans as stupid and docile to Rogers is hilarious to me. Maybe if Rogers spent just a little more time and money into the Jays, instead of nuzzling up to Bettman and the NHL, or fucking over Canadian consumers with their telecom bullshit, I would at least hold them in a better light then I do now.

This offseason had been a disaster. And I can see that Shapiro will continue the AA tradition of trawling the waiver wire for castoffs instead of spending the big bucks.
 

Malo

Banned
BA's Yankees Top Ten Prospects

1. SS Jorge Mateo
2. C Gary Sanchez
3. OF Aaron Judge
4. RHP James Kaprielian
5. RHP Domingo Acevedo
6. RHP Rookie Davis
7. SS Tyler Wade
8. 2B Rob Refsnyder
9. SS Wilkerman Garcia
10. OF Dustin Fowler

Surprised to see Judge at 3.
 
This offseason had been a disaster. And I can see that Shapiro will continue the AA tradition of trawling the waiver wire for castoffs instead of spending the big bucks.

As far the team itself goes, it's been fine. The only downside was not being able to add an elite starter. A couple good months of gates probably wouldn't cause any other team to drain the bank accounts either.

But in terms of how the owners have managed the relationship with the fan base - WOW. I can't recall any club building up so much goodwill in such a short time and then using it all up as soon as the season ended.
 
As far the team itself goes, it's been fine. The only downside was not being able to add an elite starter. A couple good months of gates probably wouldn't cause any other team to drain the bank accounts either.

But in terms of how the owners have managed the relationship with the fan base - WOW. I can't recall any club building up so much goodwill in such a short time and then using it all up as soon as the season ended.

That is what Shapiro and the higher up should worry about. A few more bad moves and the fans are going to revolt.
 
He took the better contract, that's for sure. More AAV, a quicker opt out, and a second opt out make it better than whatever the Cardinals offered.

But his comments that the Cardinals core is "too old" and that he doesn't know where they the players will be in a few years is dumb. Because he'll be opting out of his contract at that time either way. Why does he care that Holliday, Wainwright, and Molina are going to be gone in a few years when he'll be gone at the same time? That's the "player speak" if anything.

How do you know he took the better contract? Why wouldn't the Cardinals have matched opt-outs? All it does is limit the potential surplus value. Letting him walk (to a divison rival, no less) over opt outs would be extremely stupid, and Mozeliak is generally pretty smart. All we know for sure is that he left about 16 million of guaranteed money on the table.

As for the second paragraph, I don't know why you're acting like the age thing is irrelevant for the next 3 seasons. Those guys have all shown signs of decline and/or have seen injuries piling up. The older ages of those guys are significant right now. Anyways, there's no guarantee he'll opt out, so it's not like the full 8 year commitment is completely meaningless. Maybe he suffers some injuries in the next few years and doesn't meet the PA requirements, and then he has no choice but to stay.

The Cubs are better than the Cardinals right now, and they obviously have the best outlook long-term. Cardinal fans need to accept that maybe, just maybe, he thought Chicago was the better baseball situation to be in.
 
How do you know he took the better contract? Why wouldn't the Cardinals have matched opt-outs? All it does is limit the potential surplus value. Letting him walk (to a divison rival, no less) over opt outs would be extremely stupid, and Mozeliak is generally pretty smart. All we know for sure is that he left about 16 million of guaranteed money on the table.

As for the second paragraph, I don't know why you're acting like the age thing is irrelevant for the next 3 seasons. Those guys have all shown signs of decline and/or have seen injuries piling up. The older ages of those guys are significant right now. Anyways, there's no guarantee he'll opt out, so it's not like the full 8 year commitment is completely meaningless. Maybe he suffers some injuries in the next few years and doesn't meet the PA requirements, and then he has no choice but to stay.

The Cubs are better than the Cardinals right now, and they obviously have the best outlook long-term. Cardinal fans need to accept that maybe, just maybe, he thought Chicago was the better baseball situation to be in.

Its been reported that the Cardinals offered more guaranteed value over more years (probably 200m/9 or 10), so less AAV than the Cubs and most likely only one opt out at I'd guess year 4 or 5. For someone like Heyward, the AAV and opt outs are what matter more than years and guaranteed value. (It also sounds like Mo didn't get a chance to match it or even an indication of what it would take, at least from his comments leading up to it)

Athletes bet on themselves constantly, so it's all but assured that Heyward opts out unless, like you said, he suffers some pretty bad injuries. He might resign with the Cubs at that point, but it'll be for more money.

The Cubs are certainly a better situation to be in, but Cubs fans shouldn't start acting like Cardinal fans and thinking his decision had anything other to do than with money.
 
I need a tell all book from the Diamndbacks front office, starting with the Towers administration. The moves they made are baffling. They've royally screwed the trade imbalance. But I gotta put the blame on Billy for trading two months of Symaryzdyahaha for Addison Russel and Billy McKinney.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
BA's Yankees Top Ten Prospects

1. SS Jorge Mateo
2. C Gary Sanchez
3. OF Aaron Judge
4. RHP James Kaprielian
5. RHP Domingo Acevedo
6. RHP Rookie Davis
7. SS Tyler Wade
8. 2B Rob Refsnyder
9. SS Wilkerman Garcia
10. OF Dustin Fowler

Surprised to see Judge at 3.
Baseball Prospectus
The Top Ten

RF Aaron Judge
SS Jorge Mateo
C Gary Sanchez
RHP James Kaprielian
CF Dustin Fowler
2B Rob Refsnyder
RHP Drew Finley
3B Eric Jagielo
RHP Brady Lail
​LHP Ian Clarkin

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=28095

1. Aaron Judge, RF
DOB: 04/26/1992
Height/Weight: 6’7” 275 lbs.
Bats/Throws: R/R
Drafted/Acquired: Drafted 32nd overall in the 2013 draft, Fresno State University; signed for $1,800,000
Previous Ranking(s): 2015: #1 (Org), #49 (Overall),
2015 Stats: .255/.330/.448; 20 HR, 7 SB between Double-A Trenton and Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre
Key Tools: 60 power, 60 arm, 55 glove
Role: 60—Above-average regular

Judge is a towering, mammoth man with the raw power to match the body. He’s so strong that the ball jumps off his bat without needing much uppercut or loft out of the swing plane. The raw is a grade above the game power, as his massive frame makes for an inherently long swing and some unavoidable swing-and-miss. Judge does have an idea at the plate, however, and doesn't often expand his (large) zone. He will sometimes be overly aggressive against spin, especially if you throw it early in counts, but he will punish fastballs in and around the zone. It's almost as if Judge's body prevents him from being the kind of pure hitter he could be, but the trade off for 20-plus-home-run seasons is probably a fair one.

On defense, Judge is a prototypical right fielder. He moves well for a corner outfielder--though that doesn't show up in his home-to-first times--and he has a strong, accurate arm. He's not going to win any Gold Gloves, and the body might eventually force him to first base, but for now the glove rounds out an above-average profile on both sides of the ball.
 

Malo

Banned
Baseball Prospectus
The Top Ten

RF Aaron Judge
SS Jorge Mateo
C Gary Sanchez
RHP James Kaprielian
CF Dustin Fowler
2B Rob Refsnyder
RHP Drew Finley
3B Eric Jagielo
RHP Brady Lail
​LHP Ian Clarkin

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=28095
Surprised to see Finley and Fowler that high.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: Leake deal with #STLCards is for five years with an option and includes a full no-trade clause.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: Leake deal is five years, $80M with mutual option that could increase total value to $93M/$94M range.
 

BFIB

Member
I really hate how Mo constantly hands out the NTC.

Leake is going to fill the Lackey/Lynn void, there's still a question on innings depending on Wacha/C-Mart, who have yet to go a full season. Not even going to get into Garcia, as I just expect him to be on the DL throughout the year.

However, the Cards have another full set of arms coming. Reyes/Weaver project to be MLB starters, and there is another 3 or 4 that are likely to move up the ranks fast as well. Gonna have a logjam in a few years (not that its a bad thing).

Now we need that offense. Mo went w/ Leake to avoid the draft pick, so if your going to spend money, Cespedes makes a lot of sense here.
 
Top Bottom