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[Dominican Power]

Harvey sounds like a douche.

 

[The Frankman]

so the save isn't a meaningless statistic that tells us nothing? Enlighten me.

Dis explanayshun gunna be gud

 

[Dominican Power]

so the save isn't a meaningless statistic that tells us nothing? Enlighten me.

Armando Benetiz, Heath Bell, John Axford, Valverde. Need I say more?

 

[darkside31337]

Armando Benitez had 3 different seasons where he struck out 100+ dudes. Guy was so underrated. Mets fans were fucking stupid.

 

[weekend_warrior]

so the save isn't a meaningless statistic that tells us nothing? Enlighten me.

I'm not going to waste my time trying to enlighten you. If you watched any baseball at all, any, you would know how important the closer is, you'd know how teams have been destroyed because of bad closers. You have no idea how vital Mo has been during the championship runs for the Yankees, he'll be impossible to replace.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I'm not going to waste my time trying to enlighten you. If you watched any baseball at all, any, you would know how important the closer is, you'd know how teams have been destroyed because of bad closers. You have no idea how vital Mo has been during the championship runs for the Yankees, he'll be impossible to replace.

Again, not saying Mo isn't great. He is a great pitcher. Saves are not the reason he was so great and vital to the Yankees championship runs. You could have put him in a game in the 7th or 8th inning to face to other teams best hitters and he (or any other "closer") would be just as vital but wouldn't get the title or the save.

 

[Chuck]

Jim Johnson leads the league in saves and he's single handedly lost us 6 games.

 

[3N16MA]

Again, not saying Mo isn't great. He is a great pitcher. Saves are not the reason he was so great and vital to the Yankees championship runs. You could have put him in a game in the 7th or 8th inning to face to other teams best hitters and he (or any other "closer") would be just as vital but wouldn't get the title or the save.

I get where you're coming from. Many times starting the 9th inning of a game with a lead is not actually the highest leverage situation a relief pitcher will see in that game. Taking the mound in the 7th with runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out is actually a higher leverage situation.

Closers are usually the best relief pitcher on the team and using them to start the 9th with a lead is not always the most useful way to use your best relief pitcher. Some will argue that saves should be replaced with other statistics that provide more information.

Regardless on whether you value saves or not, Mo is a HoF reliever. Reliever are now a vital part of the game and bullpens can make or break a team. Mo has the highest WAR for anytime full-time reliever and you can throw out the save stat if you want. His overall numbers compare to the best in the game regardless of how many saves he has. I should also point out that I believe Edgar Martinez should be in the hall because he was the best DH of all time. MLB created a position and Edgar excelled at that position which should not be held against him.

 

[devilhawk]

Again, not saying Mo isn't great. He is a great pitcher. Saves are not the reason he was so great and vital to the Yankees championship runs. You could have put him in a game in the 7th or 8th inning to face to other teams best hitters and he (or any other "closer") would be just as vital but wouldn't get the title or the save.

I'd say that he would be more useful if they put him in any later inning where the heart of the order comes up. Pitching the ninth against the 7, 8, 9, hitters is not harder than the eighth against the 2, 3, 4 hitters.

Plus total saves are a function of offense and pitching ability in addition to your own.

 

[Peru]

I'm not going to waste my time trying to enlighten you. If you watched any baseball at all, any, you would know how important the closer is, you'd know how teams have been destroyed because of bad closers. You have no idea how vital Mo has been during the championship runs for the Yankees, he'll be impossible to replace.

Well, stats show the concept of closers hasn't added anything to the game stat wise.

 

[alstein]

Homerun derby and all-star goes to the AL, NL continues to embarrass themselves, just like they do every day with their no-DH rules.

They need to unify the rules. Either DH in both leagues or neither.

Having a DH is a competitive advantage as you need less of a bench.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

What a fucking boring game.

Also, I love Mo Rivera but LOL MVP WHAT?

 

[brianjones]

mo seems like a nice guy but the media slurping

just fucking retire already

 

[sf2fanatic]

Ok i'm barely rewatching the derby. Adam with hotdogs with Ketchup, Mustard and Relish.. He gets a brofist for that

 

[lazybones18]

Familiar Jim Ross call on tackled fan at ASG

 

[ConradCervantes]

mo seems like a nice guy but the media slurping

just fucking retire already

I have a feeling it's going to be worse when Jeter inevitably announces his retirement during the spring training of whichever season he decides to make his last.

 

[newjeruse]

Check out the images of the 1st half piece I did:

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?topic_id=7417714&content_id=28929369

 

[El_Chino]

You don't remember before 2010?

Old habits die hard.

 

[eznark]

I have a feeling it's going to be worse when Jeter inevitably announces his retirement during the spring training of whichever season he decides to make his last.

He'll never retire, he'll die on the field. Hopefully soon.

 

[Dmncnby2k9]

Check out the images of the 1st half piece I did:

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?topic_id=7417714&content_id=28929369

great work man!

 

[BFIB]

Thanks NL for not showing up last night!

And the Mo stuff, holy shit that was ridiculous. A buddy of mine who barely watches baseball asked me "Whats his deal? Why are they hamming this up? Does he have cancer or something?"

 

[newjeruse]

great work man!

Thanks!

 

[RBH]

ESPN supporting ketchup lovers. Disgusting.

Ketchup going on that hot dog. I approve.

Ketchup , Adam Jones don't giva fuck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdnpVR79Us0

 

[BFIB]

Is it odd that I prefer Ketchup on my Hot Dog, but I prefer mustard on my Bratwurst?

 

[Talon]

Is it odd that I prefer Ketchup on my Hot Dog, but I prefer mustard on my Bratwurst?

Hopefully your bratwurst wisdom will transfer over to the hot dog.

 

[jello44]

Is it odd that I prefer Ketchup on my Hot Dog, but I prefer mustard on my Bratwurst?

Yes, very.

It's not too late to change your ketchup-on-hotdog ways.

 

[3N16MA]

What's with no ketchup on a hot dog but it's fine on a burger? Ketchup on burger does not seem to get as much hate.

 

[BFIB]

What's with no ketchup on a hot dog but it's fine on a burger? Ketchup on burger does not seem to get as much hate.

BBQ sauce on the burger.

 

[deejay8595]

Idiot! I can't believe the GF's response..

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/215776691.html

 

[eznark]

Idiot! I can't believe the GF's response..

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/215776691.html

Fuck that, that's awesome. What a cool story for that goofy bastard. It's like a $500 ticket. Well worth it.

 

[turnbuckle]

Ask the Tigers how well it's going with no real closer. Remember the Red Sox closer by committee?

Don't mistake not having a real closer™ with not having a good bullpen. Not having a real closer™ is fine if you have a good bullpen. Tigers bullpen has been doing a lot better since they started adopting somewhat of a bullpen by committee with Benoit being the most regular 9th inning man but not limited to the definition of real closer™.

Our bullpen was awful this year in the first couple of months and it wasn't exclusive to Valverde. Other than Smyly and Benoit there wasn't much to go with, and forcing Valverde or Phil Coke or a rookie with control issues (Bruce Rondon) into the ninth inning spot early on exposed the team pretty quick. It wasn't because we didn't have a real closer™, it's because we have a bunch of junk arms and a few good ones and were using them in inappropriate situations. (i.e. having Smyly throwing 3 innings in a blowout victory rather than one of our garbage arms, or the old nonsense story of "Joaquin Benoit doesn't have the makeup™ of a Real Closer™", or "Valverde is tried and tested").

Any team would be better with Mariano in their bullpen and I'm happy he won the MVP as sort of a lifetime all-star achievement award (0.00 ERA, only allowing base runners in 3 of his several appearances), but there are definitely times when using Mo in the 7th or 8th inning would've made more sense than in the ninth. You want your best guy to be pitching in the most leveraged situations, and that isn't always the ninth. You don't always need your best guy to also be limited to being the closer.

(i know i'm not saying anything new, but i'm printing a shit load of documents and have time to kill so why not post anyways )

 

[turnbuckle]

Idiot! I can't believe the GF's response..

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/215776691.html

Damn, that's awesome. True love

 

[3N16MA]

Don't mistake not having a real closer™ with not having a good bullpen. Not having a real closer™ is fine if you have a good bullpen. Tigers bullpen has been doing a lot better since they started adopting somewhat of a bullpen by committee with Benoit being the most regular 9th inning man but not limited to the definition of real closer™.

Our bullpen was awful this year in the first couple of months and it wasn't exclusive to Valverde. Other than Smyly and Benoit there wasn't much to go with, and forcing Valverde or Phil Coke or a rookie with control issues (Bruce Rondon) into the ninth inning spot early on exposed the team pretty quick. It wasn't because we didn't have a real closer™, it's because we have a bunch of junk arms and a few good ones and were using them in inappropriate situations. (i.e. having Smyly throwing 3 innings in a blowout victory rather than one of our garbage arms, or the old nonsense story of "Joaquin Benoit doesn't have the makeup™ of a Real Closer™", or "Valverde is tried and tested").

Any team would be better with Mariano in their bullpen and I'm happy he won the MVP as sort of a lifetime all-star achievement award (0.00 ERA, only allowing base runners in 3 of his several appearances), but there are definitely times when using Mo in the 7th or 8th inning would've made more sense than in the ninth. You want your best guy to be pitching in the most leveraged situations, and that isn't always the ninth. You don't always need your best guy to also be limited to being the closer.

(i know i'm not saying anything new, but i'm printing a shit load of documents and have time to kill so why not post anyways )

Read my post on this page. That post was more of a dig at the Tigers and their bullpen troubles.

 

[turnbuckle]

Read my post on this page. That post was more of a dig at the Tigers and their bullpen troubles.

Well shit, I kinda said the same thing you said. That's what I get for not really following the thread as much as I should.

Carry on

 

[RBH]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=625751

 

[HarryDemeanor]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=625751

Terrible. There's way too many people picking ketchup.

 

[Fox318]

You can tell a persons age if they use ketchup.

 

[eznark]

You can tell a persons age if they use ketchup.

False, you can however tell how obnoxiously pretentious they are if they use mustard.

 

[3N16MA]

You can tell a persons age if they use ketchup.

The whole "no ketchup on a hot dog" thing is exaggerated on the internet just like the love for bacon.



Also A-Rod is back on Monday when the Yanks head to Arlington. He should get a nice cheer from the crowd.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

c'mon. Mariano is going to walk into the HoF but people will still give DH's a hard time. That's some bullshit. A save is more meaningless than an RBI.

The DH is a bullshit position put in by the AL to make it so their fragile pitchers don't have to get their hands dirty and pick up some wood and so that the fatass fans in the stands could be more excitement out of the game rather them actually having to understand the concept of small ball or strategy.

Also a closer is often thrown in at a high pressure time that if you are not accustomed to, you will blow the lead.

 

[Talon]

False, you can however tell how obnoxiously pretentious they are if they use mustard.

You have shamed the state of Wisconsin, friend.

 

[eznark]

You have shamed the state of Wisconsin, friend.

I use Secret Stadium Sauce on hot dogs and nothing on brats.

 

[Lambtron]

The DH is a bullshit position put in by the AL to make it so their fragile pitchers don't have to get their hands dirty and pick up some wood and so that the fatass fans in the stands could be more excitement out of the game rather them actually having to understand the concept of small ball or strategy.

Also a closer is often thrown in at a high pressure time that if you are not accustomed to, you will blow the lead.

Look, the AL has Mike Scoscia, Ron Gardenhire, Joe Maddon, and Ron Washington managing. We get enough awful "small ball" or "strategy" or whatever from them and we don't have to watch pitchers look horrible at the plate.

 

[Windu]

saves and rbis are meaningless, they don't tell you much about the performance of the player. the dh sucks, every fielder should have to bat. Mustard > Ketchup.

 

[alstein]

The DH is a bullshit position put in by the AL to make it so their fragile pitchers don't have to get their hands dirty and pick up some wood and so that the fatass fans in the stands could be more excitement out of the game rather them actually having to understand the concept of small ball or strategy.

Also a closer is often thrown in at a high pressure time that if you are not accustomed to, you will blow the lead.

Always wondered why we didn't see more Brendan Ryan-style defensive SS specialists in the AL due to the DH- that's like a pitcher hitting, and I assume he's a decent bunter.

 

[Fox318]

You'd think Mariano Rivera was the first good player to ever retire. Jesus Christ.

Ripken and Gwynn were given the same type of treatment.

 

[Talon]

saves and rbis are meaningless, they don't tell you much about the performance of the player. the dh sucks, every fielder should have to bat. Mustard > Ketchup.

Concise and to the point.

 

[3N16MA]

Pitchers should pitch and field their position. I would rather have a DH than give pitchers another job on top of what they already do. Noting interesting about watching an automatic out.

 

[eznark]

Pitchers should pitch and field their position. I would rather have a DH than give pitchers another job on top of what they already do. Noting interesting about watching an automatic out.

So you propose we contract the entire Mariners organization?

 

[rekameohs]

saves and rbis are meaningless, they don't tell you much about the performance of the player. the dh sucks, every fielder should have to bat. Mustard > Ketchup.