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MMA |OT2| - Thread of Athletes, Fighters, Personalities, and Sports Entertainment

Heel

Member
Nice to see a bunch of new faces replying. Stay a while!

Gilbert Melendez - exposed (a la Miller) when he arrives in the UFC or holds his own?

I'm a big Gil fan so maybe I'm biased, but my honest opinion:

Bendo beats Frankie
Gil would beat Frankie (dream match up right here)
Bendo is a tough match up for Gil

I think he will do well in the UFC even if he doesn't win the title. He's a fun fight against anyone not named Jim Miller.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
I don't see how Bendo beats Frankie outside of catching him with a sub. Frank is a better striker and the base of his mma pyramid is more impressive as well.
 

Heel

Member
I don't see how Bendo beats Frankie outside of catching him with a sub. Frank is a better striker and the base of his mma pyramid is more impressive as well.

I think Frankie is very talented but too small of a 155'er to hold the strap forever. Unlike Gray, Bendo actually has the gas tank for 5 rounds. After his performances against Guida and that guy with the beard, Bendo's MMA pyramid has to be respected. He's going to give him problems.
 
It'll be a great fight, but I give edge to Frankie too. His size has not been an issue against bigger wrestlers who one would have thought should be able to push him around. I think he'll outbox Bendo. It's just if he gets caught in a sub, but he doesn't seem like he fools around in that game, which is a good thing to avoid with Bendo. Dummies keep wasting energy on sub attempts on him.
 

Heel

Member
Miguel Torres has been released by the UFC

SI.com: And what about Miguel Torres’ tweet from yesterday?

White: This morning I’m on [Michael] Landsburg’s show, up here in Canada, and he hits me with the quote of what he tweeted. Now there’s no explanation for that. There’s absolutely nothing I could say to make any sense of that. And the fact that he even thinks that’s funny or that’s a joke, it disturbs me. It bothers me. Again, you’re dealing with a guy that’s a smart guy, that owns his own business, that’s been one of the top fighters in the world forever. And I cut him today. He’s no longer with the UFC.

SI.com: Was that announced today?

White: It’s being announced right now to you. You’re the only one that knows. Miguel Torres has been cut from the UFC and his career with us now is over.

SI.com: Was this the first time something’s happened with Torres? Or was it a second offense?

White: No, this was the first time. And then he said he hadn’t heard what happened to Forrest [Griffin, who drew fire for tweeting "Rape is the new missionary" last month]. Really? Where do you live? What business are you in? How do you not hear about these things? You should have paid more attention. It’s to the point now where, there’s going be times when things happen and mistakes are made. I cannot defend Miguel Torres. I cannot defend what he said. What he said makes no sense other than when he says, “It was a joke.” Well, I don’t think that’s a funny joke. I think it’s disturbing.

@MiguelTorresMMA - If a rape van was called a surprise van more women wouldn't mind going for rides in them. Everyone likes surprises.
 
Aww poor Torres and he was on twitter making fun of some guy earlier. The guy was sitting right next to him, talking up some chick about the UFC, and he didn't realize who was sitting next to him.
 

yacobod

Banned
and who is Dana kidding, half the guys in the ufc would be dead or in jail if they didn't have an outlet to go out and fight to get paid, i.e. see white trash like Donald Cerrone.

Since when did he turn into Roger Goodell.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Torres always says dumb shit like that. I'm sure Dana has said a bunch of dumb shit. Pretty ridiculous.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Can't compare rape jokes and Rashad's stupid Penn State joke with the child like insults that Uncle Dana makes on twitter.
 
Are you able to edit tweets later? All I see is:

MiguelTorresMMA Miguel Angel Torres
If a windowless van was called a surprise van more people wouldn't mind going for rides in them. Everyone likes surprises.
 

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
yup, not happy with this decision from dana at all. also, the tweet i saw had torres saying 'people', the SI article says 'women'. did he delete the original one or are they misquoting to make it look worse?
 
Here is way Rashad wasn't let go.


SI.com: Let’s talk about Rashad.

Dana White: First of all, if you saw the press conference, it was the worst microphone system in the history of this company. The microphones at this place either didn’t work or they’d go in and out in between every word you said. So Rashad said that [the Penn State joke] yesterday. I didn’t even hear what he said. And it didn’t even get back to me until I landed in Toronto, which was four hours later.

Here’s the other thing you’ve got to understand. With my fighters, there’s no excuses like, “Hey, listen, he’s a dumb guy. Came from the mean streets of somewhere. He’s just not all that bright.” These are educated guys, most of them went to college, they have families, children, etc. These are smart, rational people I’m dealing with.

So when I call Rashad about this thing, he’s like, “You know what Dana,” and gives me the context of it. Him and Davis started getting into this heated back-and-forth about what they’re going to do to each other the night of the fight. Davis went to Penn State. Davis wrestled for Penn State. Rashad wrestled for Michigan. [Rashad] said, “It just came out.” Zing him and zing his school at the same time. Very, very poor choice of words. I mean, it was the stupidest thing he could have said and he absolutely agrees.

So we talked on the phone, he gave me his explanation, he said, “I’ll do whatever it takes, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend anybody. In the heat of the moment, that’s what I said to him because he’s from Penn State.”

SI.com: So you didn’t hear it during the press conference? No one said anything to you right after you walked off?

White: No! Nobody said anything at the press conference. Nobody said anything on Twitter that had watched it. It wasn’t until ESPN wrote a story that anybody said anything to me.
 

dem

Member
I usually don't have issues with Dana.. But this is stupid.

He makes all the fighters get on twitter and he is surprised when they say inappropriate shit? Give me a break.
 
I usually don't have issues with Dana.. But this is stupid.

He makes all the fighters get on twitter and he is surprised when they say inappropriate shit? Give me a break.
Ya, weren't they competing for a prize for most followings or something? It's like selecting TUF competitors for their fucked up personalities, making them live in a house together and then kicking them off when they end up fighting.
 

yacobod

Banned
I like Uncle Dana trying to front like most of his fighters are Educated guys. If they were educated guys they wouldnt be fighting for a living, or sporting some of the worst tattoos known to man.
 
Miguel Torres being cut is one of the shadier cuts in recent history. Right up there with Gerald Harris and Todd Duffee. There's gotta be more to the story. Torres is a good and entertaining fighter. Maybe he's getting too big for his britches or not being a team player in Dana's eyes? Nothing can make me believe he was cut for that 'joke'. A lot worse has been said by a ton of different fighters.
 

dream

Member
Miguel Torres being cut is one of the shadier cuts in recent history. Right up there with Gerald Harris and Todd Duffee. There's gotta be more to the story. Torres is a good and entertaining fighter. Maybe he's getting too big for his britches or not being a team player in Dana's eyes? Nothing can make me believe he was cut for that 'joke'. A lot worse has been said by a ton of different fighters.

but we're mainstream now
 
I like Uncle Dana trying to front like most of his fighters are Educated guys. If they were educated guys they wouldnt be fighting for a living, or sporting some of the worst tattoos known to man.

A lot of the top wrestlers are educated. Wrestlers don't get to skip class like all the other athletes.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
I like Uncle Dana trying to front like most of his fighters are Educated guys. If they were educated guys they wouldnt be fighting for a living, or sporting some of the worst tattoos known to man.
All athletes get in trouble for saying dumb shit. Some of them even catch shit for facial expressions...

Welcome to the mainstream!
 

dream

Member
Did you find these dream?

oh I didn't think anyone cared. Hang on...

As UFC comes upon the 18th anniversary of its debut on 11/12, while the modern version downplays its connection to pro wrestling, and for sound business reasons, the crossover between the two, both in terms of performers and fan base can’t be denied.
While almost every fan knows about Brock Lesnar, Ken Shamrock and Kazushi Sakuraba, the UFC/pro wrestling connection goes a lot deeper than that.
In fact, the number of athletes in UFC alone, let alone MMA in general, who have participated in pro wrestling in some form is now hovering around the triple digits. The current TNA roster has ODB, who did one fight in Minnesota under real name Jessica Kresa (losing to future Gina Carano opponent Kelly Kobold), and Kid Kash did at least one MMA fight in Kentucky (although it was such a small-time show that we can’t find any record of it, but one of our readers was there so I know it happened). WWE champion Alberto Del Rio did 14 fights over the past decade in Japan, Mexico, Honduras and even Spain, including his three fights while under WWE contract (how he got away with that I’ll never know). Del Rio fought under his Mexican pro wrestling name, Dos Caras Jr. In his early career he fought always wearing a mask. At times he had his father in his corner. He had a high profile Pride fight against Mirko Cro Cop, in 2003, which he lost in 46 seconds. Santino Marella, who has a legitimate judo background, did one fight in Japan in 2004 under the name Joe Basko, takeoff of his then-pro wrestling name Johnny Geo Basco, losing via knockout in 24 seconds in a minor promotion.
Many pro wrestling stars like Bam Bam Bigelow, Jushin Liger, Yoshiaki Yatsu, Kazuo Sakurada (the Japanese Kendo Nagasaki), Steve Williams, Canek, Brazo de Plata, Solar, Dos Caras Jr., Yuji Nagata, Sylvester Terkay, Volk Han, Bart Gunn, Sean O’Haire, Bobby Lashley and others dabbled in non-UFC MMA. Bob Sapp, Kazuyuki Fujita, Josh Barnett, Bas Rutten, Tsuyoshi Kosaka, Yoshihiro Takayama, Don Frye, Kiyoshi Tamura and Masakatsu Funaki ended up being legitimate stars (I didn’t necessary say good fighters or good workers in all cases, but they had stardom) in both. And at times, the line has been blurred. MMA fighters like Matt Hughes, Pat Miletich and even Randy Couture and Fedor Emelianenko worked for pro wrestling promotions but never did any worked matches. And there have been pro wrestlers on MMA shows (Nathan Jones, Mitsuhiro Matsunaga, Dan Severn) who have done worked matches. One of the funniest cases was Shannon Ritch, who has a reputation for doing works in MMA, ended up getting his arm broken in a kickboxing match with Frank Shamrock and Antonio Inoki believed it was a work and that he sold it so well he brought him into Japan as a pro wrestler. And then in some cases, you don’t even know for sure what is what because the matches are so short but seem to have the “correct” ending.
Another interesting note is that two Hall of Famers in pro wrestling, Genichiro Tenryu and Nobuhiko Takada were both very close to appearing on the first UFC show in Japan in 1997. While I can’t say for sure, most likely in both cases the problem was the Japanese promoters were unable to find the right opponent that they trusted to lose. Takada was to face Ken Shamrock, who was under contract to WWF, and WWF approved of Shamrock vs. Takada on the show as at the time the WWF was not doing well financially and would have gotten a significant rights fee for the fight. But it fell apart, most likely because the Japanese side, not the American promoters, wanted Shamrock to allow Takada to win to rehab him after his humiliating first loss to Rickson Gracie on the first Pride show a few months earlier. The Japanese side also contacted Tenryu, who at one point was booked on the show, but Tenryu, who had a tough guy rep as a pro wrestler, was nearly 48 years old at the time and doing an MMA match at that age would have been a terrible idea. Another major Japanese wrestling star, Kiyoshi Tamura, was someone UFC, and particularly Joe Silva, was interested in because he had an exciting style and was a big star in Japan. At the time, Tamura turned down UFC, citing he had never fought with punches to the head legal on the ground. Eventually, because Pride offered him so much money, Tamura fought under Pride rules and by that time when he would have agreed to fight in UFC, his price was so high because of Pride, that no deal ever happened.
In the history of UFC, there is no evidence the promoters, neither SEG nor Zuffa, have ever tried to fix a match. With Zuffa, it is so completely against their mindset that nobody for a second would have likely ever considered it. Plus, with the owners having casino licenses in Las Vegas, there is nothing that could have been worth the risk. From an SEG standpoint, they had their favorites, most notably Tank Abbott, but Abbott’s record made it pretty clear they weren’t fixing his fights.
It is generally believed (and reported as such in most of the books that cover that era of UFC including by John McCarthy) as well as discussed privately, the two “worked” UFC fights were in the early days, when you had stable mates under the same management in tournaments, the Anthony Macias walking right into a guillotine by Oleg Taktarov in :09 in the semifinals of the UFC VI tournament (and it is also believed Taktarov himself didn’t know about it) and Don Frye and Mark Hall at the 1996 Ultimate Ultimate where Hall tapped out to an Achilles tendon lock in :20, the only time in Frye’s career he ever attempted that type of submission. In both cases, Zuffa’s favorite, Tank Abbott, got screwed, as his opponent both times in the finals got an easy semifinal win making them fresher to face him in the finals.
In those days the sport wasn’t regulated by commissions, so it was up to SEG to regulate. Frye did never fight again in UFC, but that was because he signed a lucrative contract with New Japan, as Frye was scheduled to face former coach Dan Severn for the heavyweight title, but had a broken hand and by the time the fight could be arranged, Severn had lost to Mark Coleman and Frye signed with New Japan.
On the flip side, in Japan, there have been a number of outright worked matches and fixed matches to protect stars and championships, but that probably hasn’t been the case in many years. Attempting to protect stars while giving them favorable matchmaking, which due to the nature of the sport, often backfires, is a different issue.
But the following is a history of fighters who have appeared in UFC and have also been pro wrestlers. For the sake of this discussion, participate in a pro wrestling promotion has been the criteria. For the purpose, a pro wrestling promotion would be one that billed and promoted within the pro wrestling world, so Randy Couture, who fought for RINGS, a pro wrestling group, but his matches were real, counts. Mark Schultz, who agreed to do a pro wrestling match on a Brazilian Jungle Fights show promoted by Antonio Inoki, and did it but ended up being double-crossed on the finish when he let his guard down, does not count. For purpose of this, RINGS counts as pro wrestling, as does Pancrase from 1993-1997. Also, keep in mind while compiling this article, that it is probably very close to complete, but there will likely be a few names that fell through the cracks.
In an interesting trivia note, the 1996 Ultimate Ultimate tournament in Birmingham, something of a night of champions, saw all eight men in the tournament later do pro wrestling–Don Frye, Gary Goodridge, Tank Abbott, Cal Worsham (who only did one or two matches), Kimo, Paul Varelans, Ken Shamrock and Brian Johnston.
In addition, with the exception of Frank Mir, Andrei Arlovski and Cain Velasquez, every UFC heavyweight champion has at one point or another done pro wrestling, and WWF at one point was interested in Arlovski. The title lineage starts with Ken Shamrock (then called the Superfight title), and then goes to Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, Maurice Smith, Randy Couture, Bas Rutten, Kevin Randleman, Couture, Josh Barnett, Ricco Rodriguez, Tim Sylvia, Mir, Andrei Arlovski, Sylvia, Couture, Lesnar, and Velasquez
This is going to have to be a multi-part series, as this first part covers fighters who appeared on UFC shows from its debut on November 12, 1993, until UFC 16, on March 13, 1998.
TANK ABBOTT - One of UFC’s earliest stars and greatest marketing gimmicks, Abbott was arguably the most popular fighter in the organization for a few years. Promoted as an unskilled brawler, a pit fighter, he was actually a state high school wrestling champion in California and JC All-American. He made his name in his UFC debut with a brutal 18 second knockout of John Matua, billed as a 400-pound Samoan, and in one of the most exciting matches at the time when he lost the tournament final that night to Oleg Taktarov, who ended up going to the hospital due to exhaustion. Abbott is 11-14 in MMA, but did go to the finals in his first tournament, as well as in the 1996 Ultimate Ultimate tournaments, losing to Oleg Taktarov and Don Frye, respectively. At 46, he won a decision on 10/30 in Dayton over Scott Ferrozo, who avenging a 1996 loss in a UFC fight. It was Abbott’s first fight in more than one year. In 1999, Abbott signed a three-year contract with World Championship Wrestling. He remained with the group until the promotion folded, and still got paid on his contract for more than a year. He was sometimes pushed as a tough guy, and other times as a comedy guy. He was a poor pro wrestler who was there simply because he had made a reputation in UFC. However he was important historically, as in early 2000, when Bret Hart retired as WCW champion due to post-concussion syndrome, booker Vince Russo decided to surprise people and have a Battle Royal to determine the champion, and make Abbott, who nobody would expect, the winner. This belief of insanity, given that Abbott wasn’t over, and wasn’t good in the ring, ended up overruled and led to WCW ordering a committee as bookers instead of Russo making the decisions. When Russo noted his contract stated he had to be the head booker, citing it, he went home, and was being paid. Kevin Sullivan was made booker and decided to make Chris Benoit world champion, partially as a political olive branch since Benoit hated him. However, that didn’t work out well, because a dozen or more WCW wrestlers threatened to leave unless Sullivan was replaced. Management held firm, many of the wrestlers buckled, Benoit got the title, and the next day, Benoit, Eddy Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Shane Douglas and Konnan quit the promotion. They had vowed to stick together as a group, and negotiated with WWF. WWF wasn’t interested in Douglas and Konnan, took the other four, and forced Douglas and Konnan to then have to return to WCW, where they were punished in booking the rest of their run. Abbott ended up being part of “Three Count,” a boy band group. He was brought back to UFC in 2003 by Dana White, who kept his signing a secret from everyone. But Abbott was past his prime, the fighters had evolved far past him, and he lost all three of his fights on his final UFC run, all in less than 2:15. But his return drew a sellout in Atlantic City and actually made Frank Mir into a star, and even with loss after loss, he still had drawing power when his fight with Kimbo Slice on Showtime in early 2008 did a 1.9 rating. At the time it was the record for MMA on that station and still among the highest numbers ever. He lost that fight via knockout in 43 seconds.
YOJI ANJO - A pro wrestler since 1985 with the original UWF, Anjo is best known for going to Rickson Gracie’s dojo and challenging Gracie, and getting massacred in the process. This was a key in the death of UWFI, which by that point he was a top star in and the promotion was on fire until it came out one of its top stars got beaten up in a street fight, and Nobuhiko Takada, its world champion, never publicly challenged Gracie to avenge the beating as Japanese custom would warrant. Anjo was with New Japan during the first UWF vs. New Japan feud in the 80s, although only as a prelim guy, then left for the second UWF, and really became a star in the 90s with UWFI. After that promotion closed, he worked in WAR, All Japan, Hustle and a number of other promotions as a heel. He was 0-5-1 in MMA, losing to Abbott in his lone UFC appearance in 1997.
 
Eh, I agree there is more to this story but you can't compare psychedelics to rape. If Rogan were talking about smuggling coke, stuff that supports drug lords, maybe more comparable, but he probably grows his own.
 

dream

Member
DAVE BENETEAU - Beneteau, a former Canadian amateur wrestling champion, went to the finals at the UFC V tournament, losing to Dan Severn. He compiled a 6-5-1 MMA record from 1995 to 2001. He also did pro wrestling for the UWFI and New Japan Pro Wrestling, including three Tokyo Dome appearances, which included losses to Yuji Nagata and Naoya Ogawa.
DIEUSEL BERTO - The father of well known boxer Andre Berto and MMA fighter Edson Berto, Deiusel Berto was a pushed star in the dying days of Championship Wrestling from Florida in the 1980s under the name Haiti Kid Berto. He then was a regular for the PWFG in Japan in the early 90s . He fought in a 1996 UFC event, losing to Geza Kalman Jr., and is listed as having an 0-3 MMA record.
SCOTT BESSAC - Bessac, an original Lion’s Den member, was in Pancrase 1994-95 and had two UFC fights in 1995. He lost both jobs after leaving the Ken Shamrock camp and having a falling out. He ended with a 4-7 MMA record.
DANIEL BOBISH - Looking like a 300 plus pound powerlifter, Bobish was the 1992 Division II national heavyweight wrestling champion. He debuted in Brazil, garnering a rep as he beat Dave Beneteau but lost to Kevin Randleman in a 1996 tournament. He fought several times in Brazil before debuting in a four-man heavyweight tournament in 1997, beating Brian Johnston but losing to Mark Kerr in the finals. He never fought in UFC again, but was a regular in Pride, where he lost all three of his fights. He became a star pro wrestler with Riki Choshu’s promotions in Japan, World Japan and Riki Pro, from 2003 to 2005, where he was pushed as a Vader/Hansen/Norton level top foreign star until the promotion folded. While never achieving anything near their level of stardom, he was a big name as a Japanese pro wrestler during that period as a 335-pound bald-headed powerhouse. After an attempt to get into WWF failed as they thought he was too heavy, he went back to MMA, fighting through 2007 and finishing with a 17-9 record. He currently promotes MMA shows in Ohio.
MARK COLEMAN - Coleman, who won an NCAA title in 1988 at Ohio State, won the gold medal at the 1991 Pan American Games in wrestling, placed second in the 1991 world championships and seventh in the 1992 Olympics, debuted in UFC on July 12, 1996, after being beaten out by Kurt Angle for a sport as the 220-pounder for the Olympic team that year. Coleman won his first two UFC tournaments, and then beat Dan Severn to win the UFC championship on February 7, 1997, before losing it to Maurice Smith. In 2000, he won the Pride Grand Prix tournament, at the time the biggest tournament in the history of the sport. He did pro wrestling with a number of promotions in Japan, and was a natural at it, most notably with Hustle and of late with the IGF. Coleman fought from 1996 to 2010, compiling a 16-10 record (although that record includes a worked loss to Nobuhiko Takada in a 1999 Pride match and a win in a forfeited match over an injured Kazuyuki Fujita that didn’t take place in the Pride Grand Prix tournament).
RANDY COUTURE - The UFC legend had five matches between 1999 and 2001 with RINGS, although all were shoot matches and he never did a worked pro wrestling match. Of note is that in 2001, as UFC heavyweight champion, he lost in :56 in Japan to Valentijn Overeem. His other loss in Japan was to Mikhail Ilioukhine but that was with Ilioukhine maneuvering a submission after a break was called and he had it when they restarted which was terrible officiating. While with RINGS, he scored decision wins over pro wrestlers Ryushi Yanagisawa and Tsuyoshi Kosaka. Couture, who retired earlier this year, was among UFC’s biggest and most popular stars in its history, holding a record five world championship reigns.
JASON DELUCIA - DeLucia (33-21-1 from 1993 - 2006) won the very first UFC match ever, a prelim on the November 12, 1993 show. He later went to Japan and became a name fighter in Pancrase. He isn’t believed to have done a worked match as a pro wrestler.
DON FRYE - A major star in both pro wrestling and MMA, Frye actually grew up a huge fan of Ric Flair and Superstar Billy Graham. He was a high school state champion and placed in nationals. But he didn’t have a stellar college career, losing his varsity starting position at Oklahoma State to Randy Couture. He did independent pro wrestling, pro boxing and competed in judo and wrestling until Dan Severn, a friend, recommended him to UFC, where in his debut bout, defeated 400-pound Thomas Ramirez in a record setting 8 seconds, and won the David vs. Goliath tournament in 1996. He also won the Ultimate Ultimate in 1996, but with UFC finances on the wane, he took the job Ken Shamrock was supposed to take and backed out at the last minute to go to WWF, so Frye was signed by New Japan Pro Wrestling where he was a major star, including working the main event of a 1998 Tokyo Dome show in Antonio Inoki’s retirement match that was one of only two $7 million gates in pro wrestling history. He also sold out the Tokyo Dome in 1999 for an IWGP title challenge to Keiji Muto, and set what was the city of Osaka’s pro wrestling attendance record as part of a Muto & Nobuhiko Takada vs. Frye & Ken Shamrock match. Frye became an even bigger star in Japan with Pride, and his 2002 match with Yoshihiro Takayama is among the most famous MMA fights ever in Japan, and the fight was reprised in a movie where both men were actors in and had the rematch of the “greatest fight of all-time.” He has been plagued by very serious injuries in recent years, including from 2002 on where he had a pain killer addiction after Ken Shamrock tore his legs up in a fight. He hasn’t done pro wrestling since 2008 or fought since 2009, leaving with a 20-8-1, 1 no contest record.
GARY GOODRIDGE - A former arm wrestling world champion, Goodridge was billed as a fourth degree black belt in Kuk Sul Won when he debuted in UFC in 1996. In actuality, he had only taken two Kuk Sul Won classes at the time. But his Raw power and amateur boxing background got him to the finals of the first tournament before losing to Don Frye. He became a popular fighter in Japan, where he did kickboxing, MMA and pro wrestling. He was 12-24-2 as a kickboxer and 23-23-1 as an MMA fighter, but lost his last eight in MMA and lost 12 of his last 13 in kickboxing, as one of the best known jobbers in each sport. He also had a run with New Japan Pro Wrestling, doing a program with Shinya Hashimoto. Goodridge, 45, was knocked out so many times as a fighter that he now suffers permanent brain damage.
GERARD GORDEAU - The first UFC PPV fight featured Gordeau, who memorably kicked teeth out of sumo Teila Tuli in the first minute. Gordeau ended up in the finals of the UFC I tournament, losing to Royce Gracie. Gordeau was already a star in Japan, having headlined against Akira Maeda at the Osaka Baseball Stadium that set at the time the pro wrestling attendance record for that city in the second version of UWF in 1989 with 23,000 fans. Gordeau later worked a Tokyo Dome show against Antonio Inoki in 1995 and wrestled in Japan for Zero-One as late as 2010. He also competed in kickboxing (27-6) and MMA (3-4).
MARK HALL - Hall went 5-6 in MMA, including three losses to Don Frye, the third of which is believed to have been a worked match in the second Ultimate Fighter tournament. He made his name in his UFC debut, when, at 189 pounds, he broke the nose of 375-pound Koji Kitao and was awarded the win via ref stoppage due to blood. Hall later did pro wrestling with the Kingdom promotion, although he may have never done a worked match.
TONY HALME - One of the most unique characters in pro wrestling and MMA was Halme, who was also a success in Finland as a boxer, singer, author of books and later became a member of parliament in Finland. A 330-pound powerlifter type, he was first discovered by Verne Gagne in 1989 and worked some independent shows before being signed in 1990 and given a major push by New Japan Pro Wrestling doing a boxing knockout artist gimmick at first before eventually being moved into being a main event pro wrestler, including wins over Bam Bam Bigelow and Scott Norton, and he also garnered a reputation in wrestling when he sucker punched Norton in a street fight in Japan. While never super over, he was pushed like a superstar his entire run there. He then went to WWF in 1993 as Ludvig Borga, also given a main event push, with vignettes and tons of wins, but also never caught on the way they liked and when he broke his ankle in early 1994, he was released from his contract. He had a bully reputation and was considered bad for the locker room. He wrestled for Otto Wanz in Europe through 1997 (where he held the CWA world title). He fought once in UFC, in 1997, losing to the debuting Randy Couture in :56 with a choke, his only MMA fight. In 2006 he was committed to an insane asylum and after being released, noted that his memory was almost completely gone. He battled drug and alcohol issues for years and committed suicide on January 8, 2010 at the age of 47. He was 13-6 as a boxer, starting after his WWE career ended, holding the WBF Americas heavyweight title and was a two-time Finnish champion.
PAUL HERRERA - A former college wrestler, Herrera went 1-1 in MMA and had at least one pro wrestling match, in 1997, against Kazushi Sakuraba for Kingdom.
MOTI HORENSTEIN - An MMA heavyweight who had a 2-7 record from 1996-2000 (0-2 in UFC with losses to Mark Coleman and Mark Kerr), did at least one mid-90s pro wrestling match with the Kingdom promotion in Japan.
ENSON INOUE - Inoue is a Hawaiian-born fighter who was heavyweight champion in Shooto, and once beat Randy Couture in 1:39 via submission, as well as beat Brazilian legend Zulu in 1997. Perhaps his most famous fight was with Frank Shamrock, in a match to determine who would face Kevin Jackson for the first UFC under-200 pound championship in one of the greatest finishes to an MMA fight of that era. Inoue only had one UFC fight, a submission win over Royce Alger in 1:37, but suffered a broken orbital bone taking a punch, and couldn’t come out for the tournament final against Guy Mezger. Inoue fought regularly from 1995 to 2002 in Japan before going to New Japan Pro Wrestling under a one-year contract in 2003. He returned to fighting in 2004 and signed with Riki Choshu’s pro wrestling promotion and retired from fighting. He came back for one fight last year, ending his career with a 12-8 record. While well known as the first Shooto heavyweight champion and the Shamrock fight, with the exception of Couture, he lost to every name fighter he faced. Inoue was also at one point married to multi-time world women’s wrestling champion Miyu Yamamoto, the sister of current UFC fighter Kid Yamamoto.
BRIAN JOHNSTON - Johnston went 5-5 in MMA in 1996 and 1997 before going to New Japan Pro Wrestling as a tag team partner with Don Frye, and the two later feuded. He was a popular regular there, but his life changed when he suffered a stroke in 2001 at the age of 32 and was never able to recover to the point he could participate in sports again.
GEZA KALMAN JR. - A longtime Canadian independent wrestler, Kalman Jr., with no formal shoot training, met Dan Severn and became his training partner in 1995. He went 4-4 in MMA fights from 1995-1999, but then quit taking fights and remained in pro wrestling. He came back losing five straight fights from 2006 to 2008.
MARK KERR - Kerr, a huge fan of pro wrestling growing up, was a member of the same high school wrestling team at Bettendorf High School in Iowa as another future MMA star, Pat Miletich. He went to Syracuse on a wrestling scholarship and was the NCAA champion at 190 pounds in 1992, beating Randy Couture in the finals. He was on the U.S. national team in 1993, placing seventh in the world championships. In 1994, he beat Kurt Angle to win the U.S. national championship at 220 pounds, but Angle beat him in both 1995 and 1996 to make the national team. He debuted in MMA in 1997, winning a tournament in Brazil where he got nicknamed “The Smashing Machine.” At the time, he was 260 pounds and looked like a bodybuilder. A group in the U.S. that wanted to promote a more legitimate style of pro wrestling based on 50s pro wrestling was interested in using Kerr as their Hulk Hogan. Kerr debuted in UFC after winning the Brazilian tournament, winning back-to-back four-man tournaments in 1997. Although he had signed a long-term deal with UFC, he left for more money with Pride, and in going to court on the contract, Kerr pleaded how he didn’t realize when he signed how he was being locked in a cage to fight with almost no rules when he signed his UFC deal, and somehow, even with a valid contract, he was allowed out so he could fight in Pride. He dominated everyone there early in, and also won two world championships in the Abu Dhabi submission grappling tournament and was at the time the top man in the sport. He was still undefeated and the strong favorite going into the 2000 Pride Grand Prix tournament. But he was facing serious drug issues, and his body shut down a few minutes into a fight with Kazuyuki Fujita. The result stunned the MMA world, which believed it had to have been a Japanese fix, but later the HBO moving “The Smashing Machine” chronicled how bad his drug problems were. Kerr then started losing regularly, dropped to 225 pounds and his lost his physique as well. Through just his power and wrestling, as he was not a whiz at submissions, he won the 1999 and 2000 World submission championships as well. Kerr debuted in pro wrestling as a tag team partner with Mark Coleman. Eventually he signed a lucrative deal with Zero-One to feud with Shinya Hashimoto, but Kerr showed up in such bad shape due to his drug issues and was so horrible as a pro wrestler that he was cut from his deal after only few matches. He continued to fight, losing 11 of his last 14 fights to finish at 15-11, 1 no contest, with his last fight being a 2009 loss to King Mo.
KIMO - An immediate superstar in UFC from his loss to Royce Gracie at the third UFC show. He went 10-7-1 in MMA from 1994 to 2006, and 0-3 in kickboxing (he was never a striker, but was used in some K-1 matches to be a well-known name to give one of their kickboxers an easy win, although he every nearly screwed up by almost knocking out a gassed Bob Sapp in Las Vegas in a match that saw Nobuaki Kakuta banned by the commission from refereeing in the state after the match since he was clearly there to protect Sapp. The person who protested the loudest to the commission was Dana White). Sapp did pro wrestling match for UWFI, including a vicious shoot match with Yoshihiro Takayama that he won (that is not listed on his record). He had a great look and was popular in Japan because of it, most notably after beating Patrick Smith, Kazushi Sakuraba and then destroying Bam Bam Bigelow in three of the earliest MMA shows in the country from 1994 to 1996. He later fought one of the worst matches ever in Pride in 1997 with Dan Severn. He was under contract and appeared on big shows with New Japan Pro Wrestling, but never caught on as expected as he was a lot smaller than in his UFC days, and didn’t look powerful when put in the ring with a young Kazuyuki Fujita, and Fujita was able to handle him well which actually led to Fujita going into MMA.
KOJI KITAO - At 6-foot-7 and well over 400 pounds, Kitao, originally known as Futuhaguro, was the biggest star in Japanese sumo in the mid-80s before being kicked out due to a fight where he threw an older woman through a glass door. He debuted as a pro wrestler in 1990, having cut to about 370 pounds. His Japanese debut probably had as much publicity as nearly any first match in history. He trained under Lou Thesz. His debut, beating Bam Bam Bigelow at the Tokyo Dome, did a 23.5 rating on television. But he was a disappointment as a pro wrestler, although he was a name until he left the business in 1998. His MMA debut was in a 1996 UFC match with Mark Hall, who landed a punch and broke his nose. Kitao took Hall down immediately but with all the blood, it was stopped in 47 seconds. He is listed with a 1-2 MMA record, but had more fights than that. His win over Nathan Jones (who later wrestled in WWF) was a pro wrestling match on the first Pride show. Pride was originally set up to be a pro wrestling promotion. The matches listed on both men’s MMA record, although a lot of worked matches from Japan from what were really pro wrestling promotions are on people’s MMA records, and there are also a lot of shoot matches from those promotions not on people’s record, and today, nobody would know for certain on many of them. In 1991, when WWF and Super World Sports had a talent trading deal, Kitao and Genichiro Tenryu were brought in for WrestleMania VII in Los Angeles and beat Demolition.
BRAD KOHLER - Kohler was a Minnesota area independent wrestler who was a powerlifter and friends with the Road Warriors, with a similar physique to Animal when Animal was at his peak, but standing a listed 5-foot-9, and he was probably really shorter than that. He went into MMA and is listed as having an 11-14 record, losing the last nine fights of his career from 1999 to 2004, and coming back in 2010 to lose to Travis Fulton. At least one of those matches was a pro wrestling match with Severn. He fought twice in UFC and four times in RINGS (all believed to be shoots), and had one of the hardest knockout punches in UFC history, a :30 KO of Steve Judson on September 24, 1999, which legitimately sounded like an explosion of pyro. His MMA debut match with Fulton in 1997 was a no time limit match that went 52:24, one of the longest modern MMA fights on record, before Fulton tapped out from punches on the ground. Perhaps his funniest match was in 2003. He was with Deep, an MMA group using a lot of Lucha Libre stars for shoot matches. He was booked against Dos Caras Jr., and for some reason, having been a pro wrestler, he thought Dos Caras Jr. was Brazo de Plata (Super Porky). He actually was cutting a promo for the fight talking about beating Porky when the interviewer said you must be mistaken because he was talking about how short and fat Porky was, and then told he was facing Dos Caras Jr. (Alberto Del Rio, who wore the mask in the fight), who was a shooter at the time, and he was like he was sentenced to hard labor. Kohler suffered a shoulder injury in just 1:25 in that fight.
TSUYOSHI KOSAKA - In the early years, Kosaka was the closest thing to a top level fighter who was also a great pro wrestling worker. As a fighter, he was the only person to beat Fedor Emelianenko (although via a fluke cut stoppage that should have been ruled a no contest because it came from an illegal blow) and went to a draw with Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (in 2000) at a time they were the two best heavyweights. Both later beat Kosaka in rematches. He also in the 90s had some of the best matches anywhere, most notably classic matches with Volk Han and Kiyoshi Tamura, the latter being among the top handful of matches of that decade. Kosaka fought six times in the UFC. He fought five times in 1998 and 1999, winning over Kimo, Tim Lacjik and Petey Williams and losing to Pedro Rizzo and Bas Rutten, and was brought back in 2002 and lost to Ricco Rodriguez in the match that gave Rodriguez his heavyweight title shot with Randy Couture for the vacant title after Josh Barnett left. His listed record of 26-18-2 is misleading because the vast majority of his first 15 listed fights were pro wrestling matches, including his classics with Tamura and Han, listed as MMA bouts, and most of his true MMA fights came when he was past his prime. He still won the King of Pancrase super heavyweight title in 2004 beating Ron Waterman. He retired in 2006 after a knockout loss to Mark Hunt. Kosaka didn’t do much pro wrestling after RINGS folded, but did have a run in New Japan Pro Wrestling in 2002 and 2003, including appearing on three Tokyo Dome shows. He lost to Yoshihiro Takayama when they did the angle to revive the NWF world title that Antonio Inoki held in the 70s and tried to make it a shooters belt, and he also appeared on New Japan Tokyo Dome shows doing shoot MMA rules matches beating Sumiyabazar Dolgolsuren (a 1996 and 2000 Olympic wrestler from Mongolia who is the older brother of Asashoryu, at the time a major Japanese celebrity as sumo’s biggest star) and Ricardo Morais, a 6-8, 275 pound giant Brazilian.
FRANCESCO “FANG” MATURI - A Canadian independent wrestler, chosen to be in UFC because he had his teeth filed down to look like fangs, Maturi did one MMA fight in 1995, losing a prelim at UFC 7.
GUY MEZGER - The current president of HDNet Fights, Mezger went 22-3 in kickboxing coming from karate, where he won two full contact karate world titles and a kickboxing title. He went 30-14-2 in MMA fighting in UFC, Pancrase and Pride including wins over Tito Ortiz, Masakatsu Funaki, Semmy Schilt, Yuki Kondo and Minoru Suzuki. He was a regular in Pancrase from 1994 to 1997. Mezger never did a worked match as a pro wrestler.
 

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PAT MILETICH - The first UFC champion in the lightweight (now called welterweight) division, Miletich’s involvement in pro wrestling was limited to a decision loss to Kiyoshi Tamura for RINGS at the time he held the UFC title. Miletich is probably most notable for his team, the Miletich Fighting System which at one point was the dominant fighting team in the world, featuring world champions Miletich, Jens Pulver, Matt Hughes and Tim Sylvia. Miletich fought from 1995 to 2002, before retiring due to back injuries, a and had two more fights coming back, retiring with a 29-7-2 record and is not a commentator.
TITO ORTIZ - One of UFC’s biggest drawing cards, Ortiz will set the record with 26 UFC fights when he faces Antonio Rogerio Nogueira on 12/10 in Toronto. He was light heavyweight champion 1999 to 2003, among the longest title reigns in history. Ortiz grew up a fan of pro wrestling and Hulk Hogan, and started wrestling in high school to become a pro wrestler. He at one point was in talks with WWF, but nothing materialized and his only pro wrestling was doing an angle and a number of TV and PPV appearances for TNA in 2005. TNA was attempting to put together a PPV match where Ortiz and Ken Shamrock would be on opposite sides of the ring, playing off their UFC feud, but was never able to make it happen. Ortiz never did a pro wrestling match with the group. He’s now 16-9-1, and was best known in UFC for his three fights with Ken Shamrock, the latter two of which set major business records. The third fight with Shamrock is still the highest rated live fight in UFC history.
REMCO PARDOEL - Pardoel went 9-6-1 in MMA, including going 3-2 in UFC, also did two matches in 1994 in Pancrase, including a knockout loss to Minoru Suzuki. Pardoel never did a worked match as a pro wrestler.
KAZUSHI SAKURABA - The architect of the Japanese boom period of MMA with his wins over Royce, Royler, Renzo and Ralph Gracie, Sakuraba is one of the biggest and most important names in MMA history. He only appeared in UFC once, on the UFC’s debut in Japan on December 21, 1997. Even though he was less than 185 pounds, he entered the heavyweight tournament (claiming he was 203 pounds, and to show how crazy things were in those days, they didn’t do weigh-ins, not that it would matter because nothing in Japan is regulated to begin with). In the first round, he took on Marcus “Conan” Silveira, who dropped him with a punch and as he shot for a takedown, John McCarthy, in what McCarthy has called the worst call of his career, stopped the match. McCarthy said the UFC was under so much pressure and he saw this fight with a 60 pound weight difference and feared an ugly scene. Sakuraba protested and refused to leave the cage. The, when Tank Abbott broke his hand in a win over Yoji Anjo, there was nobody to face Silveira in the tournament final. A decision was made to overrule McCarthy, call the first fight a no contest, and rematch them in the finals, where Sakuraba submitted Silveira with an armbar in 3:45. Sakuraba, a pro wrestling fan from childhood who dreamed of being like Tiger Mask, placed second in the Japanese national high school wrestling tournament as a senior and fourth in the collegiate nationals as a senior. He started pro wrestling with UWFI in 1993, and started out losing almost every match because he was so small, but it turned out to be a good move because he was trained there by Billy Robinson. He worked several major shows in prelims, mostly losing, during the New Japan vs. UWFI feud in 1995 and 1996, and was a main eventer with Kingdom by 1997, but that group didn’t draw at all. After his loan UFC appearance, his big claim to fame was beating Royce Gracie in 2000 in 90 minutes when Gracie’s brother Rorion threw in the towel. During his career, he defeated former UFC champions Royce Gracie (who he later lost to), Carlos Newton, Quinton Jackson, Kevin Randleman and Ken Shamrock. He’s now 26-16-1, with 2 no contests, but has not really been competitive with top talent since 2005. His fight with Mirko Cro Cop in 2002 drew 71,000 fans, the largest in MMA history, and he also sold out the Tokyo Dome against Wanderlei Silva in 2001. He was named Fighter of the Year as well as Pro Wrestler of the Year in Japan in 2000, the only time anyone in history won both awards in the same year, and also named Most Outstanding Pro Wrestler in Japan in 1999.
DAN SEVERN - A former amateur wrestling star who won 13 AAU national championships and placed as high as sixth place in the 1986 world championships, became a pro wrestler when the IOC changed its ruling regarding pro wrestlers being ineligible for the Olympics. Severn continued to compete as an amateur, winning national titles while being a pro wrestler for UWFI in Japan. He became an immediate star in UFC in 1994 and was its second champion, as well as the first winner of the Ultimate Ultimate tournament in 1995. He was a two-time NWA champion from 1995-1999 and 2000-2001 when it was a minor title, although he did have high profile defenses in Japan and had a lackluster run in WWF. He was scheduled to face Maurice Smith in late 1997 for the UFC heavyweight title, but took a fight in Japan just one week earlier, going to a 30:00 draw with Kimo, which left his leg bruised up and his hands busted up so he couldn’t take the fight that he would have had a good chance of winning. UFC didn’t want to use him after that, although he appeared one last time as a late replacement in a main event with Pedro Rizzo, which he lost quickly due to leg kicks. He still competes in MMA at the age of 53, although has said this will be his last year. He also still does independent pro wrestling shows. Severn has a listed 100-18-7 record, among the most wins in MMA history, although he likely had a number of MMA fights on small shows not listed in his record, and also had a decent amount of matches on his MMA record listed that were actually worked pro wrestling matches on these shows. Most of the fights were against less than stellar opponents on small shows.
FRANK SHAMROCK - The adopted brother of Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock had one of the best two-year runs in UFC history starting from 1997 to 1999, including being named Fighter of the Year in both 1998 and 1999. He first beat Dan Henderson in less than one minute with an ankle lock in a submission match. He followed beating Shooto heavyweight champion Enson Inoue via DQ after knocking him out and his brother, Egan Inoue interfered. He followed beating Kevin Jackson to create the first UFC middleweight (later became light heavyweight) title on December 21, 1997, at the Yokohama Arena in the UFC debut in Japan. Shamrock beat the 1992 Olympic gold medalist in wrestling, Jackson, via armbar in 14 seconds. He followed beating the champion of the rival Extreme Fighting Championships via slam in 22 seconds. Next he submitted Jeremy Horn with a kneebar and John Lober with punches. He had a 30 minute draw with Kiyoshi Tamura, although he had Tamura in an armbar and Tamura needed a rope escape to save himself in the first two minutes of the match. It was a draw because Shamrock lost a point late for an illegal punch on the ground. And it was climaxed with a win over Tito Ortiz in what was considered by many the best match in UFC history up to that point, as Shamrock was on his back for the first three rounds, but Ortiz, who outweighed him by 25 pounds going into the cage, gassed and was finished in the fourth. Shamrock never fought in UFC again, and was plagued by rib, back, shoulder and knee injuries the rest of his career and was never the same. Shamrock when it comes to pro wrestling had two fights in RINGS, both shoots, arguably his most impressive career win over Tsuyoshi Kosaka, who outweighed him by 40 pounds and was one of the top heavyweights at the time, and his draw with Tamura. Later in his career, he did a worked pro wrestling match for the U-File promotion in Japan beating Daisuke Nakamura. Based on that match, one of the best worked pro wrestling debuts of anyone, Shamrock, more than perhaps any MMA fighter besides Bas Rutten, had the most potential to be a pro wrestling superstar when you combine his interview and selling ability, his physique, and his understanding of the craft. Even after his prime, he maintained a status as being a major drawing card during the boom period of Strikeforce in San Jose, and his Showtime fights drew the biggest consistent numbers of anyone but Kimbo Slice during the early years, including a 1.7 rating for a fight with Phil Baroni that aired on a one-week delay. But due to back problems that dated back to his teenage years and the belief pro wrestling was much tougher physically on the body, never pursued it, other than a one-time meeting with ECW that went nowhere. Shamrock retired after a 2009 loss to Nick Diaz with a 25-9-2 record.
KEN SHAMROCK - Shamrock, the adopted son of a huge pro wrestling fan, actually started as a Tough Man competitor in Nevada, where he bounced, and competed in bodybuilding. He trained with Buzz Sawyer for pro wrestling and was given a push as a young Ricky Steamboat style babyface for South Atlantic Pro Wrestling, before becoming a genuine star as Wayne Shamrock with the UWF and PWFG promotions. In the early days of MMA, Shamrock was at one point the top star in both the UFC and Pancrase, at the time the two major promotions in the world. He was the first champion for each organization, becoming Superfight champion in the UFC beating Dan Severn, and King of Pancrase champion in 1994 winning a 16-man two-day tournament, beating Alex Cook, Maurice Smith and Masakatsu Funaki by submission, all in less than 6:00, but blowing out his knee in the Funaki match. He was about to forfeit the finals but was talked into going out, and he out wrestled Manabu Yamada for 30:00 in an uneventful match to take the tile via decision. He lost the UFC belt to Dan Severn in 1996 in one of the worst matches in the history of the organization. His first fight with Severn and second with Royce Gracie in 1995 were the two largest non-boxing sports PPVs in history until 2005. He lost the Pancrase title to Minoru Suzuki in 1995, but that was because the promotion asked him to lose because they didn’t want to risk having their world champion lost to a pro wrestling world champion (Severn was NWA champion at the time of the first Severn vs Shamrock match). Shamrock hung on well into his 40s and has a 28-15-2 career record, but in his first 28 fights, he may have had only two legitimate losses. However, after the age of 38, he had a 3-9 record and one win, over Ross Clifton, was against a non-fighter in a fight that Shamrock tested positive for a number of different steroids. He was also in WWF from 1997 to 1999, winning the Intercontinental champion, and was also TNA’s first world champion, winning it on that group’s debut show in 2002, He got the TNA title based on his ratings drawing power in UFC from 1994-1996. Shamrock suffered a severe neck injury in WWF and was never really the same after that in his second go around as a fighter, but his fight with Frye in 2002 was really both men’s last hurrah, a tremendous fight with both showing championship heart and neither being the same after. Shamrock also had a run after leaving Pride, wrestling with New Japan Pro Wrestling.
MAURICE SMITH - The former champion kickboxer was the first person to hold both a world championship in kickboxing and in UFC. In one of the most eventful and surprising heavyweight title wins in history, Smith, the champion of the defunct Extreme Fighting Championships, beat Mark Coleman on July 27, 1997, in Birmingham, AL. Smith came into the fight with a sub .500 record (his actual record at the time is tough because there are pro wrestling matches with RINGS that were both shoots and works both listed in his records, and in those days on the broadcasts records were often made up anyway so he was not announced with a sub .500 record) and Coleman was unbeaten, having won two UFC tournaments and then beat Dan Severn for the heavyweight title. In those days, it was the grapplers who dominated the strikers, so Smith was looked at like an easy victim, who Coleman would take down, keep down, and pound out. Smith, who trained ground fighting under Frank Shamrock, played defense, waiting for Coleman to tire, and when Coleman was exhausted, took him apart for the remainder of the fight, winning a decision. It was really the first time stand-up fighting played a major part in winning a UFC championship fight. The win, coupled with a title defense over Tank Abbott, earned him both the Fighter of the Year award, and the match with Coleman was the Match of the Year. He lost his title in Tokyo to Randy Couture, who didn’t gas out after taking Smith down and keeping him down. Smith did some pro wrestling in Japan, most notably when he was world heavyweight champion in kickboxing. He did a draw at the Tokyo Dome in the main event of what was pushed as a kickboxing vs. wrestling match against Masakatsu Funaki before 25,000 fans in 1992 in his highest profile match. Through those contacts, he became a regular from 1993 to 1995 with Pancrase, but then moved to RINGS, where he lost to Tsuyoshi Kosaka, Akira Maeda and Kiyoshi Tamura. The Maeda and Kosaka matches were worked pro wrestling but the Tamura match was a shoot under pro wrestling rules. His loss to Maeda came at a time he was EFC champion, having beaten Marcus “Conan” Silveira, also a huge upset because at the time kickboxers didn’t beat BJJ stars in MMA. It should be noted he was past his kickboxing prime at this point. Smith went unbeaten from 1983 to 1993 as a kickboxer, as world champion in two organizations, but there wasn’t much money in the sport. He continued to kickbox well into his 40s, finishing with a 53-13-5 record. His career MMA record, which saw him fight until he was 46, is listed at 12-13, but there are a losses in pro wrestling figured in. He was also 0-2 as a boxer.
PATRICK SMITH - An early UFC star who compiled a 20-15 record from 1993 to 2009, also had a 1-5 record in K-1 and a 5-11 record as a pro boxer from 1992 to 2009. Smith did pro wrestling in the mid-90s for the Kingdom promotion in Japan.
JOE SON - Originally the manager of Kimo, Son fought once in UFC in 1994, losing to Keith Hackney in a tournament match, a famous fight because low blows at the time were legal, and Hackney threw shot after shot to the groin to break a guillotine Son had on him. Son ended up 0-4 in MMA and 0-1 in K-1, but because he wore a thong while fighting as a gimmick in two Pride fights, garnered a lot of mainstream photos and Japanese press, which led to a brief move to pro wrestling. In his highest profile bout, Son appeared at a Tokyo Dome show in a pushed match, losing to Shinya Hashimoto. Son, who later gained his most fame as “Random Task” in the 1997 “Austin Powers: Man of Mystery” movie, is currently serving a life sentence in prison for a brutal 1990 rape and torture case that wasn’t solved until 2008 based on DNA evidence. Son, who due to the nature of his crime had some bad incidents immediately in prison, most recently was accused of mudering his cell mate.
YOSHIKI TAKAHASHI - A strong high school and college wrestler, Kazuo Takahashi started with Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi in Japan in 1992, and was part of the initial Pancrase crew that started in 1993. He was a mid-level fighter in Pancrase when he was sent to UFC in 1997 for its first under-200 pound tournament. He beat Wallid Ismail via decision, but was injured and couldn’t come back and face Jerry Bohlander in the finals. He last fought one year ago, and has a 29-25-3, 1 no contest record. He’s done some pro wrestling in recent years as well.
OLEG TAKTAROV - An early UFC star who won one of the most dramatic tournaments in history at UFC V in 1995. Taktarov was a two-time world champion in sambo, who compiled a 17-5-2 record in MMA including a draw (which he would have lost had their been judges) when challenging Ken Shamrock for the UFC title. He had a 1996 Pancrase loss to pro wrestler Ryushi Yanagisawa, and was in the main event at the World Wrestling Peace Festival as a pro wrestler on June 1, 1996, at the Los Angeles Sports Arena, teaming with Yoshiaki Fujiwara to lose to Antonio Inoki & Dan Severn. He did very well in his pro wrestling debut, but never followed up on it. He is now an actor who has been in a number of major movies.
TRA TELLIGMAN - Telligman, a Lion’s Den team member during its heyday, was best known as the fighter with a strange shaped chest because his right pec muscle was destroyed in a car accident in his youth. That didn’t stop him from becoming a fighter. He did one match with Pancrase in 1997, but never did a worked pro wrestling match. Telligman was 7-5-1 in MMA, most notable for using his boxing movement to beat Igor Vovchanchyn in 2001 at the time Vovchanchyn was considered by some as the best heavyweight in MMA. He was also 4-2 as a boxer.
PAUL VARELANS - The 6-foot-8, 320 pound Polar Bear, a former San Jose State football player, was actually the first of the San Jose athletes to go into UFC in 1995. He had a 9-9 record from 1995-98 as a fighter. As a pro wrestler, he worked for UWFI, RINGS and Pancrase in Japan, doing shoots in the latter two. He also did pro wrestling for ECW in a much talked about program with Taz.
ORLANDO WIET - An early kickboxer went 1-3 in MMA, with his first two fights at UFC 2. He did one pro wrestling match, losing to Kazushi Sakuraba in the Kingdom promotion in 1997.
CAL WORSHAM - Worsham fought three times in UFC in 1995 and 1996, winning one, most notably losing to Tank Abbott in 2:51 in the first round of the Ultimate Ultimate 1996, and his 1995 loss to Paul Varelans was elbows straight down (the Dusty Rhodes bionic elbow) resulted in him collapsing and being in very bad shape in the hospital that night. Worsham in 1997 lost to Don Frye on a New Japan Tokyo Dome show. He ended up fighting regularly through 2007 in small shows in California, at one point holding the Gladiator Challenge heavyweight title. That included being once on the same show with son Hunter Worsham. He has a listed 11-10 pro record with his last fight, at the age of 47, a decision loss to Dan Severn in February, which was his first fight since 1997.
EMANUEL YARBROUGH - The heaviest MMA fighter in history at more than 600 pounds, Yarbrough, who was an All-American heavyweight wrestler in college in 1986, and also competed in judo and sumo (1995 world amateur champion), is best known for a loss to Keith Hackney at UFC 3. He went 1-2, with a loss to Daijyu Takase, who weighed 169 pounds, and a win over pro wrestler Tatsuo Nakano. Yarbrough did pro wrestling in Europe for Otto Wanz years later as a gimmick performer, and did one angle in Japan, where at 6-7 and more than 650 pounds, wearing a mask, the angle came off so badly the promotion decided against following up on it.
 

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Part two of the pro wrestling experiences of fighters in UFC, this time starting with UFC 17on May 15, 1998 and ending with UFC 27 on September 22, 2000.
SHONIE CARTER - Real name Mearion Shonie Bickem III, the former college wrestler debuted in MMA in 1997 and still fights on smaller circuit shows. He’s long wanted to break into pro wrestling, but didn’t debut until earlier this year on an ACPW independent show. Carter debuted in Pancrase in 1999 and UFC in 2000, and scored his biggest win in 2001 when he knocked out Matt Serra with a spinning back fist. He also appeared on season four of the Ultimate Fighter in 2006, but was cut after losing to Marcus Davis. Carter’s listed record is 50-27-7, but since he’s fought so often on smaller shows, it is most likely that he has dozens more fights that aren’t listed on his record.
KATSUHISA FUJII - A regular pro wrestler in the early days of Zero-One, as well as Hustle, All Japan, U-Style and the IGF, Fujii fought six times in Pancrase, once in RINGS as well as in both Pride and the UFC, had a 9-18-1 MMA career record, losing eight of nine fights between 2004 and 2009. His only UFC match was on a Japan show in an under-200 pound tournament in 1999, where he beat Masatatsu Yano, but lost in the tournament final to Kenichi Yamamoto.
JASON GODSEY - Godsey fought twice in UFC, losing to Pete Williams and Jeremy Horn after being a Pancrase regular from 1997 to 1999, losing to most of the top guys but scoring a win with a forearm choke on Yuki Kondo.
ALLAN GOES - The Brazilian Jiu Jitsu star, who fought in UFC, Pride and the IFL, was involved in a landmark match on May 13, 1995, a draw with Frank Shamrock in Pancrase. Billed as Allen Gracie, he was brought to Japan as an outsider with the idea of a Shamrock facing a Gracie when Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie was UFC’s top program. He was not actually a Gracie, but billed as having a 150-0 record even though it’s listed as his first MMA fight. What is notable is that even though Pancrase had mostly shoot matches in that era, they were still a stable of fighters who had unwritten rules of sportsmanship and cooperation. Goes vs. Shamrock was the most real actual fight of the era as Goes would attack the face on the ground and use other tactics that were legal but the Pancrase group wouldn’t use on each other. The fight saw each man get a submission (broken by a rope break) on the other, and Goes also refused to tap on a heel hook and needed surgery after the fight.
DAN HENDERSON - Still headlining in a career that dates back to 1997, Henderson won the 32-man RINGS King of Kings tournament in late 1999 and early 2000 when that organization moved from working to shooting. It was at the time the first formerly working pro wrestling company doing a major shoot tournament under something that resembled MMA rules (WWE had done a shoot tournament the year before under entirely different rules). Henderson beat Bakouri Gogitidze, Hiromitsu Kanehara, Gilbert Yvel, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and Renato Babalu Sobral, the latter two via controversial decision, to take the tournament. It was even more impressive as he was 195 pounds at the time, in a heavyweight tournament. The former two-time U.S. Olympian and three-time national Greco-Roman champion went on to become the first man to hold major world titles in two weight classes at the same time when he held the Pride middleweight (now light heavyweight) and welterweight (now middleweight) titles. He’s now 28-8 including wins over Fedor Emelianenko, Renzo Gracie, Murilo Bustamante (twice), Wanderlei Silva, Vitor Belfort, Rich Franklin and Michael Bisping.
BOBBY HOFFMAN - A much troubled fighter who was an original Miletich team member, the heavyweight brawler is listed as having fought 49 times in a career from 1998 to 2006. He was considered one of the top heavyweights in the sport when he debuted in UFC in 2000, losing via decision to Maurice Smith. He later knocked out strongman competitor Mark Robinson, but the decision was overturned due to failing a New Jersey drug test. His final UFC fight was a 2001 knockout loss to Josh Barnett. Hoffman has 10 matches with RINGS during both its shoot and working period, including a knockout win over Alistair Overeem in 2000 and a loss to Volk Han that same year. During his career he had wins over Paul Buentello (who beat him in a rematch), Heath Herring and Ricco Rodriguez, as well as pro wrestlers Mikhail Ilioukhine, Ryushi Yanagisawa and Joop Kasteel, finishing with a listed 36-10-1, 2 no contest record.
JEREMY HORN - The still active veteran fighter who has fought more than 100 fights, with a listed 88-21-5 record (and most likely there are a number of fights not listed due to incomplete records) in a career that dates back to 1996, fought ten times for RINGS and once for Pancrase as well as 13 times for UFC, including losing title matches with Frank Shamrock in 1998 and Chuck Liddell in 2005. During his career he has three wins over Chael Sonnen (twice by submission, once via cut), is the only person to hold a submission win over Liddell as well as wins over Forrest Griffin and pro wrestlers Yoshihisa Yamamoto and Chris Haseman. He also lost to pro wrestlers Kiyoshi Tamura and Hiromitsu Kanehara in RINGS. and drew with Dan Severn. None of his RINGS matches were worked matches, although at the time, a lot of people thought one of his Abu Dhabi matches was.
MATT HUGHES - The UFC legend, a two-time welterweight champion and the person who holds the record for most victories in UFC with 18, had two matches with RINGS in 2000 and 2001, winning decisions over Christopher Haseman and Hiromitsu Kanehara. Hughes fought in UFC as early as 1999, but didn’t go exclusively until he won the welterweight title from Carlos Newton in 2001.
YUKI KONDO - Kondo was voted by Tokyo Sports as the 1996 pro wrestling rookie of the year when he scored wins over Takafumi Ito, Osami Shibuya, Minoru Suzuki, Semmy Schilt, Keiichiro Yamamiya, Pete Williams and Frank Shamrock. In 1997, he beat Masakatsu Funaki to become the King of Pancrase champion, although most feel Funaki dropped the title to him to create a new headliner, and when he wanted it back a few months later, was able to win it without much problem. Kondo fought 86 times before retiring in 2010, and during his career held the King of Pancrase heavyweight title twice, the light heavyweight title once and the middleweight title once. He fought three times in UFC in 2000 and 2001, a win over Alexandre Dantes, which led to a loss to Tito Ortiz in just 1:52 when challenging for the under-200 pound title as Kondo was giving up considerable size and weight to Ortiz. He also lost a decision to Vladimir Matyushenko. He finished with a 52-26-8 record, including wins over Guy Mezger, Jason DeLucia, Ikuhisa Minowa, Mario Sperry and lost a split decision that many feel he should have won on the 2004 New Year’s Eve show to Dan Henderson.
SIONE LATU - Latu, the younger brother of Sione Vailahi (The Barbarian, who was part of the Powers of Pain tag team with Warlord), scored a first round knockout in UFC 19 over Joey Roberts in 1999. He never fought in MMA again. Latu worked independents in the Carolinas at the time.
JOHN LOBER - Stemming from a win over Frank Shamrock via decision when Shamrock gassed out 20 minutes into a 30 minute fight with no rounds, Lober became a name fighter. He challenged Shamrock for the UFC title in the main event of UFC Brazil in 1998, quitting at 7:40 due to strikes. Lober also did six matches with Pancrase in Japan, going 0-3-3 between 1997 and 1999, including losses to Kiuma Kunioku, Minoru Suzuki and Ryushi Yanagisawa, and a draw with Yoshiki Takahashi.
ANDRE ROBERTS - The 350-pound Chief Andre Roberts was a Midwest independent wrestler who went into MMA and had a 14-2-1 record, including three fights in UFC in 1998 and 1999, with a win over Ron Waterman and a loss to Gary Goodridge.
BAS RUTTEN - Modern fans may know of Rutten as the host of Inside MMA, but Rutten was one of the original foreign MMA stars in Japan, and later a UFC champion, and with the exception of maybe Volk Han, was one of the best fighters with no experience at adapting to pro wrestling. Perhaps more than any MMA fighter, Rutten, because he had the right look, could talk, and had exceptional athletic ability, was probably the guy who could have been a sure-thing pro wrestling star in North America. WWF was interested in him but he turned it down due to the travel schedule. Rutten started on the first Pancrase show, and never did a worked match with the group. He went 28-4-1 in a career from 1993 to 1999 (he had a comeback match in 2006), winning 21 and having one draw in his last 22 fights. He beat Tsuyoshi Kosaka and Kevin Randleman (in a very controversial decision) to win a tournament to become the UFC heavyweight champion even though he only weighed 201 pounds at the time, but retired to go it acting after winning the tournament in 1999. He also held wins over Frank Shamrock (winning two of their three bouts), Ryushi Yanagisawa (twice), Maurice Smith (twice), Minoru Suzuki (twice), Guy Mezger, Jason DeLucia (twice) and Masakatsu Funaki. Rutten vs. Funaki on September 7, 1996, Tokyo, was considered the best fight in the early history of MMA and is the only match in history to be under consideration for Match of the Year in both martial arts publications as well as pro wrestling in Japan. After retiring from fighting, Rutten did pro wrestling from 2000 to 2002, appearing as a headliner with New Japan Pro Wrestling where he challenged Yuji Nagata for the IWGP title, Koji Kanemoto for the IWGP jr. title and had a match that got Japanese match of the year votes by Tokyo Sports against Osamu Nishimura, as well as had a couple of great matches against Hiroshi Tanahashi.
DAIJYU TAKASE - 170-pound Takase made his name on the third Pride show in 1998, when he took on 650-pound Emmanuel Yarborough, It was one of the most talked about fights of its time, as Takase ran away from Yarborough for the first round, and in doing so, gassed Yarborough out, and beat him in the second round when he was too exhausted to continue. Takase was on the second UFC show in Japan in 1999, but lost to Kenichi Yamamoto in an under-200 pound tournament. His MMA career wasn’t noteworthy aside from beating two former UFC champions, winning a decision over Carlos Newton on Pride show in 2004, and submitting Anderson Silva with a triangle in 8:33 in what in hindsight has to be one of the biggest upsets in the sport’s history. Takase worked as a pro wrestler in Japan as well. He last fought in the spring of 2010 and has a career record of 9-13-2. He did another UFC fight, where he came in outweighed by 30 pounds by Jeremy Horn and took a terrible beating. Some say this fight was the reason why Nevada officials, who were at the show in Iowa, decided against sanctioning MMA under Bob Meyrowitz. Takase also was a regular with Pancrase from 1999-2001, including losses to Ikuhisa Minowa (now Minowa-man) and Nate Marquardt.
EVAN TANNER - Tanner was a self-taught fighter who learned the sport by watching videotapes. He had never wrestled until his sophomore year in high school, but won the Texas state title as a junior and a senior. He had major college offers but dropped out and became a drifter. When Steve Nelson, the son of pro wrestlers Gordon Nelson and Maria LaVerne, started the USWF out of Amarillo, a mostly shoot organization promoted as the new version of pro wrestling in a city where pro wrestling had a rich history, and drew big crowds locally for a few years. Nelson recruited Tanner, a well known local athlete, to be his star. Tanner, at 190 pounds, won the USWF heavyweight title in 1997 and retained it against heavyweights, until 2000, when the organization shut down. Nelson, seeing that the novelty had worn out, sold the organization to Tanner, who couldn’t make a go of it. Tanner was already a star in Japan for Pancrase by that time and debuted in UFC in 1999, earning a light heavyweight title shot with Tito Ortiz, that he lost in :32 from a slam. He held the UFC middleweight title briefly in 2005, beating David Terrell for the vacant title before losing to Rich Franklin. But Tanner’s misused his physical talents because of his alcoholism and he abuse of his body took its toll as he got older. He drifted from place to place, taking all kinds of different jobs, before his death in 2008 from heat exposure while in the 118 degree desert and running out of water. After his death, he became a celebrated unique figure, which included an article in Sports Illustrated and a movie that has been at film festivals this year.
RON WATERMAN - A former Division II All-American wrestler, Waterman, who had the pro wrestler look, fought four times in UFC in 1999 and 2000 going 2-1-1. He didn’t start in MMA until he was 33, and was signed by WWF in 2000 but at 34, the feeling was he was going to have to learn fast. Waterman was in OVW with the likes of John Cena, Big Show, Mark Henry, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, and Dave Bautista, and because of his resemblance to Scott Steiner, was put on the road. He choked out Henry once while training in OVW. He was cut in 2002, with the feeling that he wasn’t progressing fast enough, and at 36, time was not on his side. He went back to MMA, fighting in Pride and Pancrase, before eventually signing with New Japan Pro Wrestling where he got a pretty big push for a short period of time. Waterman was the high school wrestling coach of Shane Carwin, and later opened the door for Carwin to get into MMA. He was also close friends with Lesnar from when they were in Louisville together, and noted that he had trained and faced in competition some of the best wrestlers in the world, but Lesnar was the only guy who could take him down at all.
PETE WILLIAMS - Not the same Petey Williams as the TNA wrestler, this Petey Williams, was a Lion’s Den heavyweight who delivered one of the most memorable knockouts in UFC history with a kick to the face of Mark Coleman. Williams fought from 1996 to 2002, and once faced Kevin Randleman, losing in a bout for the vacant UFC heavyweight title. He was 12-6 as a pro, fighting his first three bouts in a 1996 Pancrase Neo Blood tournament where he lost in the finals to Yuki Kondo.
KEIICHIRO YAMAMIYA - A Pancrase regular from 1996 to 2010, Yamamiya appeared on one UFC show in Japan in 1999, losing via knockout to Eugene Jackson. He also did pro wrestling in Japan, and had a number of notable names on his resume, including MMA wins over Yuhi Sano (Pro Wrestling NOAH’s Takuma Sano), two wins over Minoru Suzuki and also beat Taka Michinoku in Taka Michinoku’s only MMA fight. He was the first Pancrase light heavyweight champion, winning the title in a tournament in 2000. During his career he has notable MMA wins over Chael Sonnen, Nate Marquardt, Chris Lytle, Dennis Kang, Yuki Kondo, Hiromitsu Kanehara and had a draw with Keith Jardine. He has not fought in more than a year and had a 36-26-9 record.
KENICHI YAMAMOTO - Yamamoto started his pro wrestling career in 1994 with UWFI, went next to Kingdom after UWFI folded, and eventually worked as part of a heel group called The Golden Cups, a heel group that also included Yoji Anjo and Yoshihiro Takayama, that worked in New Japan, WAR and several other promotions. He moved to RINGS and was used on UFC’s second show in Japan in 1999, winning an under-200 pound tournament with wins over Daiyu Takase and Katsuhisa Fujii. He later challenged Pat Miletich for the welterweight title, losing via second round guillotine. He continued to wrestle and do MMA through 2006, and came out of retirement last month to lose to Sanae Kikuta. His listed MMA record is 5-10-2, but there are pro wrestling matches from his RINGS days listed in that record.
 
1. When and how were you first introduced to MMA?

Mid to late 90s had a special box dealy and watched the PPVs.

2. Who are some of your favorite fighters, past or present?


Some of my favorites have been Oleg Taktarov, Peter Aerts, Donald Cerrone, Amir Sadollah, Junior Dos Santos, Brad Pickett, Scott Jorgensen, Joe Lauzon, Cub Swanson, the Diaz brothers, and Bart Palazciewski.

3. Who do you think would win?

Brock Lesnar vs. Alistair Overeem

Georges St. Pierre vs. Nick Diaz

Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen II


Overeem, I want Diaz to win but I assume GSP would win, Silva

4. Finally, who do you believe to be The Greatest Heavyweight of All Time: Cain Velasquez or Fedor

Of those two choices obviously Fedor.
 
I like Uncle Dana trying to front like most of his fighters are Educated guys. If they were educated guys they wouldnt be fighting for a living, or sporting some of the worst tattoos known to man.

And wearing fucking T shirts to press conferences.


Fuck this Goodell wannabe, he made fun of lesbians and then said "some of my best friends are lesbians." Brah's momma was right.
 

dream

Member
Well, here's Dave's take on the weird Fox card:

Rashad Evans, Chael Sonnen and Michael Bisping are going to be responsible on 1/28 for making Dana White look like a genius, or a gambler who took a needless risk on a trifecta play when UFC has its second prime time show on FOX.
The show, which airs in the 8-10 p.m. time slot coming from the United Center in Chicago, is headlined by Evans vs. Phil Davis in a five-round fight and will also have Sonnen vs. Mark Munoz and Bisping vs. Demian Maia (the latter expected to be announced at a press conference on 12/7 after press time) in three-round fights.
The winners of Evans vs. Davis and Sonnen vs. Munoz are scheduled to receive the next title shot at the light heavyweight and middleweight titles respectively. While originally there were going to be four matches on the show, with the main event potentially going five rounds, plus wanting extensive video features to get all six over, the decision was made to only have three matches in the two hours. In addition, one would expect significant promotion on the FOX show of the Georges St. Pierre vs. Nick Diaz fight the next Saturday. A great show with a big audience could give the company strong momentum going into what should be the biggest PPV match in more than a year.
The biggest question is why Sonnen is facing Munoz, if Bisping is also fighting on this show. It's the more attractive match-up by leaps and bounds to the public. We did a poll of the potential match-ups involving Sonnen, Munoz and Bisping, and 87% wanted Sonnen vs. Bisping. Bisping's interest level has peaked from Ultimate Fighter and his win over Jason Miller, plus people hate his guts at a huge level which is a major positive in selling a television fight. Plus, it's a no lose unless the fight sucks, and with those two, it probably wouldn't. And whoever wins can be built up for a major match with Anderson Silva.
While Bisping probably wouldn't draw on PPV like Sonnen for a match with Silva, he's still the second best option in the division (unless Dan Henderson moves down and even that is debatable) and could still challenge Silva viably for a major stadium show in either Brazil or the U.K. and draw on PPV based on the idea that Americans want to see Silva shut him up and the British will support their fighter going for a world title. Sonnen would be preferable because of interest in seeing he and Silva fight again dating back to their first fight in August where Sonnen became the first person to come close to beating Silva since he came to UFC, winning four rounds handily before being submitted in the fifth.
The top two matches were booked before Bisping vs. Miller took place (actually were booked a couple of weeks back), but with moving parts, when circumstances change you should roll with them and take the hot match. If Evans and Sonnen win, particularly if they both look impressive in doing so, and the show can do a 3.0 rating, you've accomplished every goal you can for a network show. If Bisping wins as well, then you've got another potential big money fight for later in the year. You've gotten an acceptable rating, even good since the key demos would come in strong enough at a 3.0 overall. You have a huge audience seeing the two challengers win to set up title matches on PPV. It's the perfect use of television given Zuffa's current marketplace.
But the risk is Evans and/or Sonnen could lose. Davis, the 2009 NCAA champion is a better wrestler than Evans in a sport where the better wrestler always has a chance. Plus, five rounds is uncharted water for Davis, but for Evans, he got rocked in the third round by both Quinton Jackson and Thiago Silva after out wrestling both for the first two rounds. There is a theory in fighting that if you beat a star you become a star, and that's often true but not always (case in point, when Manny Pacquiao beat Oscar De La Hoya, at the press conference, people were noting that De La Hoya's career was probably done, and now boxing lost its last draw, but Bob Arum, who sometimes says stupid things, in this case said that all that happened is now Pacquiao will become the draw De La Hoya was–which, given he was a 300,000 to 350,000 buy PPV guy coming in and De La Hoya was four times that, sounded ridiculous, but it turned out to be true in his case).
Right now UFC is in a position where most PPVs are going to do 225,000 to 310,000 buys. The only exceptions on the horizon are Georges St. Pierre vs. Nick Diaz, Junior Dos Santos' next title defense, whether it be with Alistair Overeem or Brock Lesnar (obviously Lesnar would make for a huge number if he beats Overeem, Overeem is uncharted but a knockout win over Lesnar should elevate him strongly), Jon Jones vs. Evans and Anderson Silva vs. Sonnen. Jones vs. Davis, unless Davis has a great showing and wows people at a level he never has before, is not going to do much out of that range. Silva vs. Munoz won't either, particularly when both have been training partners and nobody will believe Munoz can beat him. Silva vs. Maia if Maia beats Bisping won't get made unless it's the last of last resorts as their prior match was one of the worst title matches in UFC history and nobody will believe Maia has a chance. Based on his performance in the first fight, where couldn't come close to getting Silva to the ground, he doesn't stand much of a chance.
Munoz vs. Sonnen matches wrestlers. Like with Davis vs. Evans, Munoz is actually the higher caliber wrestler by credentials, being a former NCAA champion, who beat Sonnen when both were in college. But Sonnen's wrestling has looked better in his recent fights. Still, Munoz, while not having crisp stand-up, hits really hard and his ground and pound is some of the most brutal in the sport. It is a fight he can win. If Sonnen wins the title, there is logic in a Sonnen vs. Maia match because Maia submitted Sonnen on February 21, 2009.
If UFC can get good ratings for No. 1 contenders fights building a PPV, then everything is great regarding cohesion between FOX specials and PPV. UFC will always have fights with name guys for television at the level of the fights they have on this show. Exposing top contenders in front of the larger FOX audience is the best thing possible to build a PPV. Hopefully in the future such matches are more balanced, in the sense where business would be similar no matter who won. One person in the promotion estimated that if Davis, Munoz and Maia win, you could estimate 1.2 million buys which is about $26 million in lost revenue for 2012, which tells you the stakes of these gambles. If I had to estimate right now, and these are estimates on the conservative side, I'd say Jones vs. Evans at 750,000, Jones vs. Davis at 350,000, Silva vs. Sonnen at 800,000, Silva vs. Maia at 350,000, Silva vs. Bisping at 650,000 and Silva vs. Maia, the conservative estimate isn't far off that range.
Evans vs. Quinton Jackson (provided Machida wins the title) or Sonnen vs. Bisping which would be ideal situations because the risk would be minimal no matter what the result was. But evidently UFC had deadlines and couldn't wait and went with the best hand they could play at the time they had to play it.
If they can't get ratings on 1/28, then there are issues. If they need championship fights with marquee names to draw prime time ratings, at the least they will risk the viability of doing numbers with the 225,000 to 310,000 level fights over the long haul. If they have to put their best possible fights forward, say a Dos Santos vs. Lesnar fight if that materializes, then they teach the audience the big fight is on FOX and PPV is secondary, and that will kill PPV. Given the current business climate, with a fixed television deal that doesn't pay them anywhere close to enough on its own to be profitable without substantial PPV revenue (and a contract where that isn't going to change until 2019 at the earliest), it's imperative TV is the building block for PPV until that time or at least until there are revenue streams that can pick up the slack if PPV falters, and TV not being one of them.
Even as recently as the first six months of 2011, 75% of UFC's income came from either PPV or live gates (for the first nine months of the year, for WWE, PPV and live events generated 42.0% of revenues and 43.8% of profits). That was great in 2010, because UFC was wildly profitable doing big PPV numbers. But that's all contingent on PPV, not necessary doing 2010 record numbers, but at least staying at 2011 levels because another fall from this level wouldn't be good. If PPV falls like it did over the past few years with WWE, it would require major cost cutting, and the fighters, particularly the headliners, would earn substantially less. They still have the international market potential, which has kept WWE healthy over the past decade as domestic interest as declined, but exporting isn't as easy. Pro wrestling has existed all over the world in some form for decades. MMA is still a new sport without widespread appeal, and while there is the universal appeal of guys fighting and an inherent excitement level of the sport, it also takes more of an education process in new markets. And even in the U.S., it has not proven the true test of time yet, in the sense it may hit big when it first hits television but does it have the staying power in new markets once the novelty phase is over? Even if revenue declines, the company is still going to have to run more shows than ever before to fulfill its commitments to FOX, FX and Fuel.
 
For a second there I thought Gaffer Snowman Prophet of Doom discovered MMA and wanted to write up about how he watched the fight on Fox.
 

charsace

Member
I think Frankie is very talented but too small of a 155'er to hold the strap forever. Unlike Gray, Bendo actually has the gas tank for 5 rounds. After his performances against Guida and that guy with the beard, Bendo's MMA pyramid has to be respected. He's going to give him problems.

Frankie is hard to take down and will box circles around Bendo.
 

TheNatural

My Member!
dream is confused with the wrestling thread. I don't mind the info, but Meltzer sounds like a total fucking dweeb outside of his element when he speaks about MMA. Especially shit like this:

MMA is still a new sport without widespread appeal, and while there is the universal appeal of guys fighting and an inherent excitement level of the sport, it also takes more of an education process in new markets. And even in the U.S., it has not proven the true test of time yet, in the sense it may hit big when it first hits television but does it have the staying power in new markets once the novelty phase is over?

Hasn't proven the test of time? UFC is kicking boxing and wrestling's ass COMBINED on a yearly basis in PPV buys. No shit that it's not going to do NFL numbers or anything as a sport, but it's far from a novelty act or new sport.
 
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