Ninja Scooter
Member
lol yeah right. If that ever happened you could have your way with my avatar the way Donald Cerrone has his way with Brittney every night.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
MMA |OT2| - Thread of Athletes, Fighters, Personalities, and Sports Entertainment
- Thread starter yacobod
- Start date
lol yeah right. If that ever happened you could have your way with my avatar the way Donald Cerrone has his way with Brittney every night.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
I'm excited to see Picket fight again in the UFC. He left himself open against Barao. The Sweden card doesn't seem too bad for a Fuel card.
I'm looking forward to
Gustafsson/Nog
Pickett/Barao
Pearson/Siver
I'm looking forward to
Gustafsson/Nog
Pickett/Barao
Pearson/Siver
TheKaeptain
Banned
Oh man speaking of Donald Cerrone. Have you guys seen the picture he had on twitter account...I would post it but Dream might get banned for all the pejoratives he drops after seeing it.
They are. You're better off just ignoring Ninja Scooter's trolling, my friend.
Host Samurai
Member
Fedor would wreck Jonny Bones.
I don't know if anybody posted this but the UFC HW title bout between JDS/Reem really is for the UNDISPUTED title. Look up the lineage of this fight. Even the original UFC title which Barnett never lost is up for grabs as well as the Pride HW belt.
Zuffa should market this fight like that.
I don't know if anybody posted this but the UFC HW title bout between JDS/Reem really is for the UNDISPUTED title. Look up the lineage of this fight. Even the original UFC title which Barnett never lost is up for grabs as well as the Pride HW belt.
Zuffa should market this fight like that.
parrotbeak
Member
Oh wow, good work!
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
He never got dazed by anything Sonnen hit him with on the ground after the first round. At one point Silva let Sonnen hit him in the head about 20 times in a row while looking Chael in the eyes without ever blinking.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I don't know how I feel about this.
Outside of Bones, Team Jackson has really lost its luster recently.
Jon Jones (UFC)
Gina Carano (Strikeforce)
Nate Marquardt (BAMMA)
Clay Guida (UFC)
Keith Jardine (Strikeforce)
Karo Parisyan (UFC)
David Loiseau (Tachi Palace Fights)
Joey Villasenor (Shark Fights)
Jason MacDonald (UFC)
Julie Kedzie (American Fight League)
Brian Stann (UFC)
Carlos Condit (UFC)
Shane Carwin (UFC)
Joe Stevenson (UFC)
Donald Cerrone (UFC)
Yoshihiro Akiyama (UFC)
Leonard Garcia (UFC)
Andrei Arlovski (Strikeforce)
Roger Huerta (Bellator)
Melvin Guillard (UFC)
Diego Sanchez (UFC)
Diego Brandao (UFC)
John Dodson (UFC)
Jon Jones (UFC)
Gina Carano (Strikeforce)
Nate Marquardt (BAMMA)
Clay Guida (UFC)
Keith Jardine (Strikeforce)
Karo Parisyan (UFC)
David Loiseau (Tachi Palace Fights)
Joey Villasenor (Shark Fights)
Jason MacDonald (UFC)
Julie Kedzie (American Fight League)
Brian Stann (UFC)
Carlos Condit (UFC)
Shane Carwin (UFC)
Joe Stevenson (UFC)
Donald Cerrone (UFC)
Yoshihiro Akiyama (UFC)
Leonard Garcia (UFC)
Andrei Arlovski (Strikeforce)
Roger Huerta (Bellator)
Melvin Guillard (UFC)
Diego Sanchez (UFC)
Diego Brandao (UFC)
John Dodson (UFC)
Host Samurai
Member
Doesn't Arlovski still train under Jackson?
parrotbeak
Member
He's on the list, but should be Pro-Elite, not Strikeforce
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
It's not like there's a difference between those two promotions nowadays anyway. Hell I'm way more excited for Minowaman-Da Spyda than I was for Hollowdine-Rockhold.
DKehoe
Member
What was Jackson actually doing for GSP at this point? Was it pretty much just strategy?
Have thought for a little while now that AKA is now the top elite gym
Have thought for a little while now that AKA is now the top elite gym
I don't know about that. Black House/Team Nogueira has 3 UFC champions.
Maklershed
Member
Akira Corassani vs Jason Young at UFC on Fuel 2. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease kick Akira's ass Jason.
Host Samurai
Member
Damn im going blind.
ESPN's E:60 is doing a story on fighter pay and the UFC monopoly. Not sure when it's going to air though.
http://youtu.be/l_AmZDsEqc4
http://youtu.be/l_AmZDsEqc4
Didn't hear about that. That team is getting crazy. Hopefully they fix what's wrong with Torres.
I just noticed that Wikipedia list doesn't have Tim Kennedy. He's doing better than most of those guys.
Hahaha dragging out Shamrock for criticism. Perfect. I wonder if they'll have any new information on the FTC investigation.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Spike is replaying Royce/Hughes and the UFC graphic was trying to make it look like he was undefeated. I thought that was funny.
Here is your chance to meet Brittany and Chandella.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6DV0x4jvMY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6DV0x4jvMY
Absolutely. Bring on the wall of text!
Power Glove
Member
Heads up for you guys that tried to watch UFC 141 on XBL, they are now open for free 142 sign ups.
parrotbeak
Member
He got murdered in Strikeforce. Pro-Elite will continue to feed him obvious cans cuz he is a name. Jardine probably belongs in Pro-Elite.
But ya, the last Strikeforce was as bad or worse than the last Pro-Elite and the first Pro-Elite was pretty good Bad MMA.
BigJonsson
Member
Too bad I work Saturday, at least I can watch UFC and football at the same time at work
The free month of XBL comes in handy though
dream
Member
here you go lads
The baddest woman on the planet, the day before her most devastating career win, tested positive for anabolic steroids according to a release sent out on 1/6 by the California State Athletic Commission.
Cristiane Justino Santos, 26, the Strikeforce womens featherweight champion, better known as Cris Cyborg (11-1), tested positive for the anabolic steroid Stanazolol, also known as Winstrol. The test took place on 12/16, the day before knocking out the top contender for the title, Japans Hiroko Yamanaka, in 16 seconds.
But the repercussions of this are much deeper than any steroid test failure.
Besides the one year suspension, as well as a $2,500 fine implemented by the commission, Dana White announced that Santos has been stripped of her championship and that Strikeforce was going to do away with the featherweight championship. White said they were only keeping the championship at 145 pounds because of her, because of a lack of talent in the division, and would bring in opponents to face her. At this point they are going to have all the women under contract fight at 135 pounds.
A byproduct of this is it is a major blow to the potential of another womens superfight like Cyborg vs. Gina Carano in 2009. In an attempt to market Ronda Rousey, the ultimate goal was a Rousey vs. Cyborg fight once Rousey had gotten a year or so worth of exposure as well as another year of ring time. The loss of Cyborg means the ultimate big womens fight of this time period is Rousey vs. Miesha Tate for the bantamweight title, scheduled for 3/3 in Columbus, OH, and that match is nowhere near as marketable as a prospective Rousey vs. Cyborg match a year from now would have been.
Santos released a statement on Saturday, apologetic, saying she took a dietary aid because she was having trouble getting her weight down to the 145 pound featherweight limit.
I am ultimately responsible for everything I put in my body, and at the end of the day, there is no excuse for having a prohibited substance in my system, she wrote. I do not condone the use of any performance enhancing drugs by myself or any other professional athlete, and willingly accept the penalties and fines that have been handed down to me by the California State Athletic Commission and those of the Strikeforce/Zuffa organization.
In a radio interview on the MMA Insiders radio show in Las Vegas on Friday, White also gave the indication that the entire womens featherweight division was likely to be dropped.
We were going to hold that division and just do fights with Cyborg whenever there was a new contender, said White on the show. Shes getting stripped of the belt. This pretty much kills the division.
Aside from Santos, the top female fighters under contract to Strikeforce, bantamweight champion Tate, former champion Sarah Kaufman and former Olympic judoka Rousey are all now competing at 135 pounds. Rousey, who competed in the Olympics at 154 pounds, winning a bronze medal in 2008, had fought at 145, but was dropping to 135 as a tactical move for a company desired fight with Tate for the championship. The ultimate goal was to set up a champion vs. champion potential showdown with Santos, considered the premiere woman fighter in the world.
However, should Gina Carano, still the most popular name in in womens MMA return, it could bring the division back. Carano (7-1) hasnt competed in nearly two-and-a-half years, but was scheduled to fight at one point this past summer until a medical condition forced the fights cancellation. Carano, 29, competes at 145 pounds, and her lone career loss was to Santos. She has struggled in the past with making weight, particularly when there have been attempts to get her to fight at a weight less than 145.
While I was preparing myself for my last fight, I was having a difficult time cutting weight, and used a dietary supplement that I was assured was safe and not prohibited from use in sports competition, Santos wrote. It was never my intention to obtain an unfair advantage over Hiroko, mislead Strikeforce, the commission or my fans. I train harder than any fighter in MMA and do not need drugs to win in the cage, and I have proven this time and time again! My only mistake is not verifying the diet aid with my doctor beforehand, and understanding that it was not approved for use in the ring. Unfortunately in the end I suffer the consequences and must accept the responsibility for my actions.
Santos is going to have to specify the supplement and be able to prove that supplement has Stanazolol in it or else nobody is going to believe her. She later claimed, without saying the name of the supplement, that she took a diet pill/diuretic to cut weight which is what triggered the positive test. Once again, I dont know of a diuretic that contains Winstrol V, but more importantly, diuretics, which she didnt test positive for, are also banned substances for fighters. She claimed it was an oral pill that she thought was a diuretic, claiming she has a fear of needles. While there have been supplements shown to cause positive tests for certain banned substances, there is no documentation of any supplement or diet aid that would make you test positive for Stanazolol, and the fear of needles is a tough one to take seriously given her tattoos. But weve created an environment where athletes believe they are forced to lie, and in this situation, what else can she say?
But even more so, this failure is going to be treated very differently than any other. First off, when a guy fails, the reaction is usually negative from an audience that believes them to be cheating, while another audience believes that everyone is cheating and they were just unlucky or stupid to get caught. The truth is probably somewhere between those two beliefs. But steroids dont taint legacies of men who fail, at least that badly, or end careers. Josh Barnett has failed three steroid tests over the years, still hasnt been licensed in California where he failed the last time, but has been able to continue his career and is in the finals of the Strikeforce Grand Prix tournament and came across as one of the biggest stars on the recent New Years Eve show in Japan. Vitor Belfort is still a major star, who got a title shot after testing positive for steroids, and his attempt to get back in the title picture isnt going to be affected at all by his test result from a few years back. Chael Sonnen is one of the most heavily promoted fighters on the UFC roster and was also used by UFC even though he hadnt been licensed in the state where he was suspended. Royce Gracie is still considered a legend in the sport and his test failure in his final win, a listed win over rival Kazushi Sakuraba, is considered a minor footnote in his career.
But with Santos, the reaction is different. It is exceedingly unlikely that Santos is the only woman fighting in MMA who uses performance enhancing drugs. As best we can tell, shes the second somewhat name woman fighter (Carina Damm was the first) to test positive for steroids. However, she does both look and fight completely different than any major star. Does this mean she is simply predisposed to getting great results from training and steroids, because everyone is different? Does this mean she uses more than anyone else?
While steroids are a performance enhancer in men, they are far more of a competitive advantage to women, because women naturally produce very little testosterone, so when you jack it up to the level of a male, its far more of unbalancing the playing field. Worse, given that if anything, she didnt look quite as physically impressive in her last fight, it would be hard to believe this was an isolated incident.
The reality is you would have to be naive to believe she was clean from the day she arrived in the U.S. But, she is hardly the only star in the sport you would say that about. But the reaction is, because shes a woman, who has been so dominant, that every win is in question and her legacy is destroyed. Although she passed all tests, the feeling is now that she cheated with steroids to run through Gina Carano, the sports former princess. And while some defenders of steroids in the sport who try to say that in a skill sport it doesnt make a difference, the fact is when it comes to just fighting skill, Santos is no better than a lot of the woman fighters. I remember talking with Marloes Coenen, about her fight with Liz Carmouche, who she noted was strong but never hurt her. When asking about her compared with Cyborg, it was like, she was nothing, Cyborg was strong like a man. There is the famous clip of her power bombing a 220 pound Tito Ortiz in practice when caught in a triangle that takes low back strength like a 170 pound fit athletic woman would not have. She hit too hard and was too strong for her opponents. In this case, her power and aggression, both of which now have to be taken into question, was the difference maker.
Yet you want us to believe that the camp she comes from will find this athletic woman and make her an experiment, and that the guys arent learning from the experiment? Its more likely what she did was based on what was successful with the guys, and not the other way around.
In a year, when her suspension is up, does she even get another chance? Her test result release wasnt even a few hours old when the decision was made to drop her entire weight class from competition. Although if Carano, now a movie star, wants to come back, I would expect they would revive the division for her marketability given Carano had enough trouble making 145, and youre asking for trouble if you want her to fight at 135.
You have to look no farther than Ben Johnson in sprinting, who after his positive test in 1988 garnered more attention to drug use in sports than anything in history, that he continued his career and due to pressure, had to be drug free. He went from blowing away the field to being mediocre, such was the difference. And thats just running. MMA is a skill sport to be sure, and all the steroids in the world wont make you a Cris Cyborg or fill in the blank of the top star male fighter that you deep down know has gotten there with chemical help. But can they make a very skilled good fighter into one far more difficult to beat? Are they a major difference maker? If everything else is equal, they are likely a major difference maker. Yet youve got a sport where the testing is years behind the times and something that those in the profession largely laugh and wink at. Its the secret of the sport that everyone brings up behind closed doors but few want to talk about publicly. And it will likely, for the men, continue to be like that.
But the reaction is different here, as instead of maybe being a cheater, you had a situation where there was a fighter so head-and-shoulders above her competition that she didnt belong. While Yamanaka was by no means a great fighter, and she herself came into the fight with a record based on beating much smaller women, she was legitimately the No. 1 contender worldwide in the eyes of many, and only lasted 16 seconds. Before the Carano fight, the consensus was that Carano was the more skilled stand-up fighter, but there was a strength and power difference shed have to deal with. The reality was, she wasnt competitive. Coenen, with far more experience and a ground specialist, wasnt competitive either.
But here is the issue. She also passed every test necessary until this last one. And physically, she actually looked very slightly off in San Diego as compared to previous big fights. If a guy tests positive and comes back with a new physique where you can see a significant difference when it comes to losing tightness or muscle bulk, then they probably returned clean. If there is little difference, most likely they are just smarter when it comes to not getting caught. If Santos was caught because her handlers made a mental error, or because her system played a dirty trick on her because clearance periods of different drugs are not 100% and thats why a few people do get caught, the reality is she could have just as easily gone through her whole career without this taint. Its the thin line for having a career for a woman end in disgrace, and being lauded historically as the greatest ever in her sport.
The result of the fight held on the 12/17 Strikeforce show at the Valley View Casino Center in San Diego, has been overturned by the commission and ruled a no contest.
Our primary concern is for the health and safety of fighters, said CSAC Executive Officer George Dodd in a press release sent out on Friday. Anabolic agents and other banned substances put not only the users of those agents at risk, but their opponents as well. The commission simply will not tolerate their use.
The release stated that the commission received the test results on 12/23 from the World Anti-doping Agency lab at UCLA.
The release didnt state the length of time of the suspension, but that it would start on 12/16. In the past, California has suspended fighters who fail steroid tests for one year. Santos, generally considered the best female fighter in the world, has the right to appeal the suspension.
In its history, UFC has had three occasions where current champions had test positive for steroids, and get suspended. Josh Barnett was the first, in 2002, in the match where he defeated Randy Couture for the heavyweight title in Las Vegas. Tim Sylvia in 2003, failed after a successful title defense against Gan McGee, also in Las Vegas. Lightweight champion Sean Sherk in 2007 failed in California after a title defense against Hermes Franca.
In all three cases, the champions were stripped of their titles.
Stanazolol is the anabolic agent that sprinter Ben Johnson tested positive for in the 1988 Olympics. It is used in weight class sports because it is believed to lead to increases or maintenance of strength levels while cutting weight to make a weight class.
Generally, injectable Stanazolol clears ones system when it comes to urine tests in about two months, while the oral version clears in three weeks.
Santos, like most fighters, walks around significantly higher than the 145 pounds she weighs-in at, and has in the past had trouble making weight.
She became the first Strikeforce womens champion on August 15, 2009, when she stopped Carano, at the HP Pavilion in San Jose before 13,976 fans. It was the first time a womans fight was ever the main event of a major boxing or MMA show, and the match set ratings records for MMA on Showtime. The fight was the most searched item on Yahoo and the single most talked about topic in the world on that night on Twitter. Santos, who was noted for fighting a wild, aggressive, crowd pleasing style, was too physically strong for Carano and finished her with strikes on the ground at 4:59. But Santos fights since that time have not had anywhere close to the same level of interest.
The fight with Yamanaka was the first for Santos in 19 months after a lengthy contractual dispute.
Santos, with her physique that looks like a female bodybuilder, had been the most dominant female fighter on the U.S. scene ever since her arrival from Brazil in 2008.
Originally a standout handball player in Brazil, she began fighting at the age of 19. A native of Curatiba, Brazil, she started at the same academy that produced Wanderlei Silva, who her fighting style has always been compared to, and Mauricio Shogun Rua. She married Evangelista Cyborg Santos, who was a well known fighter who became a star in Japan and at one time challenged for the Strikeforce welterweight title.
The couple moved to San Diego, where she teaches and trains at a gym called The Arena.
In recent weeks, Rousey had all but directly said Santos was on steroids, with lines that Santos would be able to make 135 pounds if she stopped doing what she was doing.
I feel like anyone with half a brain isnt surprised, Rousey said on The MMA Show with Mauro Ranallo. I have mixed emotions of Cyborg being caught cheating because I know everyone knew she was cheating and I wanted to make an example of her because you dont need to take steroids to win. I think her getting caught is a great thing too. I dont have the least bit of respect for her because I always knew she was a cheater, and now everyone else knows too. If she ever comes back to fight again, she wont be the same beast she was before. She might even try doing different things like HGH that are harder to get caught for. Who knows if Strikeforce ever wants her back.
Well, I am disappointed to find out she was using, wrote Tate. I gave her the benefit of the doubt too, and really admired her.
Dont want to kick an opponent when shes down, wrote Marloes Coenen. I still respect her and we will meet again at Invicta.
Dr. Rosi Sexton (a PHD in Theoretical Computer Science, not a medical doctor although she is a practicing osteopath and Cambridge University graduate ), a female fighter with Bellator, responded by writing in Bloodyelbow.com that after seeing the news, I felt a little like a ten year old whose parents have just admitted that Santa Claus doesnt exist. A tiny bit disappointed, but mostly relieved that now we can all stop pretending.
She noted that when people defend use, or see it as a non-issue, based on the idea everyone is taking them, that they miss the point.
The problem is that this is a combat sport. In most sports, the consequences of failure might be measured in pride, status or money. IN MMA, you add physical damage and injury. In female MMA, for example, you can find yourself watching a fighter who is essentially (in hormonal terms) male, beat up a woman. It often makes for uncomfortable viewing. Its bad for the sport, and most of all, its bad for the fighters. It sends the message that following the rules is penalized by getting your face smashed in.
She also noted that those defending Cyborg by saying she trained so hard are naive, saying , Look, just working hard in the gym wont give a woman muscles like that any more than eating worms and flapping your arms will make you fly.
The issue here is that if you see photos of Santos at the start of her career, and the after photos, the change is remarkable. You can lose weight, gain muscle, gain weight through training, diet and eating. But she has the exact same facial changes as a high level competitive female bodybuilder. Shes also passed all her previous tests, which speak more to the ease of passing those tests.
Sexton noted that there is a reality of the sport, and everyone knows it. Right now you have the ultimate hypocrisy situation, and this is not blaming anyone in specific, yet in a sense everyone in power is part of the problem.
You have a situation where performance enhancing drugs are illegal in the sport, but are greatly rewarded. You get bigger, stronger, hit harder and can recover from more training. There are downsides. You can gas out quicker, but if you have good advisers, that wont be the case. While you can recover from injuries faster, you also will get nagging injuries more often due to muscle imbalances. And if youre really unlucky, or really stupid, you may fail a test and if youre a champion and a woman, itll taint your entire career. If youre a guy, youll be thrashed everywhere, lose sponsors, but if youre a nice guy about it, fans will eventually forget. If you can draw money, people in power will immediately forget.
If you examine risk vs. reward, the scales are heavily balanced toward reward. And I dont know if theres anything that can change that, because the same goes for all Olympic sports, and they have the hardest testing in the world. Still, a lot more can be done. But for financial reasons, it cant be done by athletic commissions. Some commissions I believe do as much as they can afford to do financially. Others dont care. Situations with Chael Sonnen, Nate Marquardt and Alistair Overeem have in every case put commissions in a bad light. You have members of commissions who clearly understand the subject, and other political appointees who are clearly over their heads in dealing with it.
Sonnen was never cleared by the commission that suspended him. While his situation came at great cost, easily seven figures to him for having his momentum delayed and losing his rematch opportunity with Anderson Silva (some of it may be recouped if he gets the shot this year, but not all), he is still one of the most heavily promoted athletes on the Zuffa roster. Marquardt lost his job, but for reasons nobody can adequately explain, was not suspended even though he had too much testosterone in his system in a test, something that has actually never been fully proven about Sonnen. Overeem was ordered on 11/17 by the Nevada commission to take a test within the next two days. While he took tests over the next few weeks, the first test was the wrong test and didnt have a steroid panel (it did show him in normal testosterone range), the second test sample somehow disappeared with no results, and the first test with results, where he was clean, was taken on 12/14.
But even throwing these three out, unless you are a main event fighter on a major show in California and Nevada where you may get tested during camp, you can use most PEDs, with the exception of the ones that stay in your system a long time, with impunity in training. You know when to get off, and its no difference than knowing when to taper down hardcore training to be fully rested for fight day, and no different from manipulating your diet to make sure you make weight on fight day, and then come back as big as possible 27 or so hours later when you step in the cage. Some PEDs, Growth Hormone, you can take with impunity if you want right until the afternoon of the fight, as there is no testing for it. And while some will claim differently because there is a test being used in the Olympics, there is actually no significant test for it because to this day athletes use that drug with impunity and with no fear of a test that never catches anyone except a few near setups that have been used to prove its effectiveness in a scare tactic.
The baddest woman on the planet, the day before her most devastating career win, tested positive for anabolic steroids according to a release sent out on 1/6 by the California State Athletic Commission.
Cristiane Justino Santos, 26, the Strikeforce womens featherweight champion, better known as Cris Cyborg (11-1), tested positive for the anabolic steroid Stanazolol, also known as Winstrol. The test took place on 12/16, the day before knocking out the top contender for the title, Japans Hiroko Yamanaka, in 16 seconds.
But the repercussions of this are much deeper than any steroid test failure.
Besides the one year suspension, as well as a $2,500 fine implemented by the commission, Dana White announced that Santos has been stripped of her championship and that Strikeforce was going to do away with the featherweight championship. White said they were only keeping the championship at 145 pounds because of her, because of a lack of talent in the division, and would bring in opponents to face her. At this point they are going to have all the women under contract fight at 135 pounds.
A byproduct of this is it is a major blow to the potential of another womens superfight like Cyborg vs. Gina Carano in 2009. In an attempt to market Ronda Rousey, the ultimate goal was a Rousey vs. Cyborg fight once Rousey had gotten a year or so worth of exposure as well as another year of ring time. The loss of Cyborg means the ultimate big womens fight of this time period is Rousey vs. Miesha Tate for the bantamweight title, scheduled for 3/3 in Columbus, OH, and that match is nowhere near as marketable as a prospective Rousey vs. Cyborg match a year from now would have been.
Santos released a statement on Saturday, apologetic, saying she took a dietary aid because she was having trouble getting her weight down to the 145 pound featherweight limit.
I am ultimately responsible for everything I put in my body, and at the end of the day, there is no excuse for having a prohibited substance in my system, she wrote. I do not condone the use of any performance enhancing drugs by myself or any other professional athlete, and willingly accept the penalties and fines that have been handed down to me by the California State Athletic Commission and those of the Strikeforce/Zuffa organization.
In a radio interview on the MMA Insiders radio show in Las Vegas on Friday, White also gave the indication that the entire womens featherweight division was likely to be dropped.
We were going to hold that division and just do fights with Cyborg whenever there was a new contender, said White on the show. Shes getting stripped of the belt. This pretty much kills the division.
Aside from Santos, the top female fighters under contract to Strikeforce, bantamweight champion Tate, former champion Sarah Kaufman and former Olympic judoka Rousey are all now competing at 135 pounds. Rousey, who competed in the Olympics at 154 pounds, winning a bronze medal in 2008, had fought at 145, but was dropping to 135 as a tactical move for a company desired fight with Tate for the championship. The ultimate goal was to set up a champion vs. champion potential showdown with Santos, considered the premiere woman fighter in the world.
However, should Gina Carano, still the most popular name in in womens MMA return, it could bring the division back. Carano (7-1) hasnt competed in nearly two-and-a-half years, but was scheduled to fight at one point this past summer until a medical condition forced the fights cancellation. Carano, 29, competes at 145 pounds, and her lone career loss was to Santos. She has struggled in the past with making weight, particularly when there have been attempts to get her to fight at a weight less than 145.
While I was preparing myself for my last fight, I was having a difficult time cutting weight, and used a dietary supplement that I was assured was safe and not prohibited from use in sports competition, Santos wrote. It was never my intention to obtain an unfair advantage over Hiroko, mislead Strikeforce, the commission or my fans. I train harder than any fighter in MMA and do not need drugs to win in the cage, and I have proven this time and time again! My only mistake is not verifying the diet aid with my doctor beforehand, and understanding that it was not approved for use in the ring. Unfortunately in the end I suffer the consequences and must accept the responsibility for my actions.
Santos is going to have to specify the supplement and be able to prove that supplement has Stanazolol in it or else nobody is going to believe her. She later claimed, without saying the name of the supplement, that she took a diet pill/diuretic to cut weight which is what triggered the positive test. Once again, I dont know of a diuretic that contains Winstrol V, but more importantly, diuretics, which she didnt test positive for, are also banned substances for fighters. She claimed it was an oral pill that she thought was a diuretic, claiming she has a fear of needles. While there have been supplements shown to cause positive tests for certain banned substances, there is no documentation of any supplement or diet aid that would make you test positive for Stanazolol, and the fear of needles is a tough one to take seriously given her tattoos. But weve created an environment where athletes believe they are forced to lie, and in this situation, what else can she say?
But even more so, this failure is going to be treated very differently than any other. First off, when a guy fails, the reaction is usually negative from an audience that believes them to be cheating, while another audience believes that everyone is cheating and they were just unlucky or stupid to get caught. The truth is probably somewhere between those two beliefs. But steroids dont taint legacies of men who fail, at least that badly, or end careers. Josh Barnett has failed three steroid tests over the years, still hasnt been licensed in California where he failed the last time, but has been able to continue his career and is in the finals of the Strikeforce Grand Prix tournament and came across as one of the biggest stars on the recent New Years Eve show in Japan. Vitor Belfort is still a major star, who got a title shot after testing positive for steroids, and his attempt to get back in the title picture isnt going to be affected at all by his test result from a few years back. Chael Sonnen is one of the most heavily promoted fighters on the UFC roster and was also used by UFC even though he hadnt been licensed in the state where he was suspended. Royce Gracie is still considered a legend in the sport and his test failure in his final win, a listed win over rival Kazushi Sakuraba, is considered a minor footnote in his career.
But with Santos, the reaction is different. It is exceedingly unlikely that Santos is the only woman fighting in MMA who uses performance enhancing drugs. As best we can tell, shes the second somewhat name woman fighter (Carina Damm was the first) to test positive for steroids. However, she does both look and fight completely different than any major star. Does this mean she is simply predisposed to getting great results from training and steroids, because everyone is different? Does this mean she uses more than anyone else?
While steroids are a performance enhancer in men, they are far more of a competitive advantage to women, because women naturally produce very little testosterone, so when you jack it up to the level of a male, its far more of unbalancing the playing field. Worse, given that if anything, she didnt look quite as physically impressive in her last fight, it would be hard to believe this was an isolated incident.
The reality is you would have to be naive to believe she was clean from the day she arrived in the U.S. But, she is hardly the only star in the sport you would say that about. But the reaction is, because shes a woman, who has been so dominant, that every win is in question and her legacy is destroyed. Although she passed all tests, the feeling is now that she cheated with steroids to run through Gina Carano, the sports former princess. And while some defenders of steroids in the sport who try to say that in a skill sport it doesnt make a difference, the fact is when it comes to just fighting skill, Santos is no better than a lot of the woman fighters. I remember talking with Marloes Coenen, about her fight with Liz Carmouche, who she noted was strong but never hurt her. When asking about her compared with Cyborg, it was like, she was nothing, Cyborg was strong like a man. There is the famous clip of her power bombing a 220 pound Tito Ortiz in practice when caught in a triangle that takes low back strength like a 170 pound fit athletic woman would not have. She hit too hard and was too strong for her opponents. In this case, her power and aggression, both of which now have to be taken into question, was the difference maker.
Yet you want us to believe that the camp she comes from will find this athletic woman and make her an experiment, and that the guys arent learning from the experiment? Its more likely what she did was based on what was successful with the guys, and not the other way around.
In a year, when her suspension is up, does she even get another chance? Her test result release wasnt even a few hours old when the decision was made to drop her entire weight class from competition. Although if Carano, now a movie star, wants to come back, I would expect they would revive the division for her marketability given Carano had enough trouble making 145, and youre asking for trouble if you want her to fight at 135.
You have to look no farther than Ben Johnson in sprinting, who after his positive test in 1988 garnered more attention to drug use in sports than anything in history, that he continued his career and due to pressure, had to be drug free. He went from blowing away the field to being mediocre, such was the difference. And thats just running. MMA is a skill sport to be sure, and all the steroids in the world wont make you a Cris Cyborg or fill in the blank of the top star male fighter that you deep down know has gotten there with chemical help. But can they make a very skilled good fighter into one far more difficult to beat? Are they a major difference maker? If everything else is equal, they are likely a major difference maker. Yet youve got a sport where the testing is years behind the times and something that those in the profession largely laugh and wink at. Its the secret of the sport that everyone brings up behind closed doors but few want to talk about publicly. And it will likely, for the men, continue to be like that.
But the reaction is different here, as instead of maybe being a cheater, you had a situation where there was a fighter so head-and-shoulders above her competition that she didnt belong. While Yamanaka was by no means a great fighter, and she herself came into the fight with a record based on beating much smaller women, she was legitimately the No. 1 contender worldwide in the eyes of many, and only lasted 16 seconds. Before the Carano fight, the consensus was that Carano was the more skilled stand-up fighter, but there was a strength and power difference shed have to deal with. The reality was, she wasnt competitive. Coenen, with far more experience and a ground specialist, wasnt competitive either.
But here is the issue. She also passed every test necessary until this last one. And physically, she actually looked very slightly off in San Diego as compared to previous big fights. If a guy tests positive and comes back with a new physique where you can see a significant difference when it comes to losing tightness or muscle bulk, then they probably returned clean. If there is little difference, most likely they are just smarter when it comes to not getting caught. If Santos was caught because her handlers made a mental error, or because her system played a dirty trick on her because clearance periods of different drugs are not 100% and thats why a few people do get caught, the reality is she could have just as easily gone through her whole career without this taint. Its the thin line for having a career for a woman end in disgrace, and being lauded historically as the greatest ever in her sport.
The result of the fight held on the 12/17 Strikeforce show at the Valley View Casino Center in San Diego, has been overturned by the commission and ruled a no contest.
Our primary concern is for the health and safety of fighters, said CSAC Executive Officer George Dodd in a press release sent out on Friday. Anabolic agents and other banned substances put not only the users of those agents at risk, but their opponents as well. The commission simply will not tolerate their use.
The release stated that the commission received the test results on 12/23 from the World Anti-doping Agency lab at UCLA.
The release didnt state the length of time of the suspension, but that it would start on 12/16. In the past, California has suspended fighters who fail steroid tests for one year. Santos, generally considered the best female fighter in the world, has the right to appeal the suspension.
In its history, UFC has had three occasions where current champions had test positive for steroids, and get suspended. Josh Barnett was the first, in 2002, in the match where he defeated Randy Couture for the heavyweight title in Las Vegas. Tim Sylvia in 2003, failed after a successful title defense against Gan McGee, also in Las Vegas. Lightweight champion Sean Sherk in 2007 failed in California after a title defense against Hermes Franca.
In all three cases, the champions were stripped of their titles.
Stanazolol is the anabolic agent that sprinter Ben Johnson tested positive for in the 1988 Olympics. It is used in weight class sports because it is believed to lead to increases or maintenance of strength levels while cutting weight to make a weight class.
Generally, injectable Stanazolol clears ones system when it comes to urine tests in about two months, while the oral version clears in three weeks.
Santos, like most fighters, walks around significantly higher than the 145 pounds she weighs-in at, and has in the past had trouble making weight.
She became the first Strikeforce womens champion on August 15, 2009, when she stopped Carano, at the HP Pavilion in San Jose before 13,976 fans. It was the first time a womans fight was ever the main event of a major boxing or MMA show, and the match set ratings records for MMA on Showtime. The fight was the most searched item on Yahoo and the single most talked about topic in the world on that night on Twitter. Santos, who was noted for fighting a wild, aggressive, crowd pleasing style, was too physically strong for Carano and finished her with strikes on the ground at 4:59. But Santos fights since that time have not had anywhere close to the same level of interest.
The fight with Yamanaka was the first for Santos in 19 months after a lengthy contractual dispute.
Santos, with her physique that looks like a female bodybuilder, had been the most dominant female fighter on the U.S. scene ever since her arrival from Brazil in 2008.
Originally a standout handball player in Brazil, she began fighting at the age of 19. A native of Curatiba, Brazil, she started at the same academy that produced Wanderlei Silva, who her fighting style has always been compared to, and Mauricio Shogun Rua. She married Evangelista Cyborg Santos, who was a well known fighter who became a star in Japan and at one time challenged for the Strikeforce welterweight title.
The couple moved to San Diego, where she teaches and trains at a gym called The Arena.
In recent weeks, Rousey had all but directly said Santos was on steroids, with lines that Santos would be able to make 135 pounds if she stopped doing what she was doing.
I feel like anyone with half a brain isnt surprised, Rousey said on The MMA Show with Mauro Ranallo. I have mixed emotions of Cyborg being caught cheating because I know everyone knew she was cheating and I wanted to make an example of her because you dont need to take steroids to win. I think her getting caught is a great thing too. I dont have the least bit of respect for her because I always knew she was a cheater, and now everyone else knows too. If she ever comes back to fight again, she wont be the same beast she was before. She might even try doing different things like HGH that are harder to get caught for. Who knows if Strikeforce ever wants her back.
Well, I am disappointed to find out she was using, wrote Tate. I gave her the benefit of the doubt too, and really admired her.
Dont want to kick an opponent when shes down, wrote Marloes Coenen. I still respect her and we will meet again at Invicta.
Dr. Rosi Sexton (a PHD in Theoretical Computer Science, not a medical doctor although she is a practicing osteopath and Cambridge University graduate ), a female fighter with Bellator, responded by writing in Bloodyelbow.com that after seeing the news, I felt a little like a ten year old whose parents have just admitted that Santa Claus doesnt exist. A tiny bit disappointed, but mostly relieved that now we can all stop pretending.
She noted that when people defend use, or see it as a non-issue, based on the idea everyone is taking them, that they miss the point.
The problem is that this is a combat sport. In most sports, the consequences of failure might be measured in pride, status or money. IN MMA, you add physical damage and injury. In female MMA, for example, you can find yourself watching a fighter who is essentially (in hormonal terms) male, beat up a woman. It often makes for uncomfortable viewing. Its bad for the sport, and most of all, its bad for the fighters. It sends the message that following the rules is penalized by getting your face smashed in.
She also noted that those defending Cyborg by saying she trained so hard are naive, saying , Look, just working hard in the gym wont give a woman muscles like that any more than eating worms and flapping your arms will make you fly.
The issue here is that if you see photos of Santos at the start of her career, and the after photos, the change is remarkable. You can lose weight, gain muscle, gain weight through training, diet and eating. But she has the exact same facial changes as a high level competitive female bodybuilder. Shes also passed all her previous tests, which speak more to the ease of passing those tests.
Sexton noted that there is a reality of the sport, and everyone knows it. Right now you have the ultimate hypocrisy situation, and this is not blaming anyone in specific, yet in a sense everyone in power is part of the problem.
You have a situation where performance enhancing drugs are illegal in the sport, but are greatly rewarded. You get bigger, stronger, hit harder and can recover from more training. There are downsides. You can gas out quicker, but if you have good advisers, that wont be the case. While you can recover from injuries faster, you also will get nagging injuries more often due to muscle imbalances. And if youre really unlucky, or really stupid, you may fail a test and if youre a champion and a woman, itll taint your entire career. If youre a guy, youll be thrashed everywhere, lose sponsors, but if youre a nice guy about it, fans will eventually forget. If you can draw money, people in power will immediately forget.
If you examine risk vs. reward, the scales are heavily balanced toward reward. And I dont know if theres anything that can change that, because the same goes for all Olympic sports, and they have the hardest testing in the world. Still, a lot more can be done. But for financial reasons, it cant be done by athletic commissions. Some commissions I believe do as much as they can afford to do financially. Others dont care. Situations with Chael Sonnen, Nate Marquardt and Alistair Overeem have in every case put commissions in a bad light. You have members of commissions who clearly understand the subject, and other political appointees who are clearly over their heads in dealing with it.
Sonnen was never cleared by the commission that suspended him. While his situation came at great cost, easily seven figures to him for having his momentum delayed and losing his rematch opportunity with Anderson Silva (some of it may be recouped if he gets the shot this year, but not all), he is still one of the most heavily promoted athletes on the Zuffa roster. Marquardt lost his job, but for reasons nobody can adequately explain, was not suspended even though he had too much testosterone in his system in a test, something that has actually never been fully proven about Sonnen. Overeem was ordered on 11/17 by the Nevada commission to take a test within the next two days. While he took tests over the next few weeks, the first test was the wrong test and didnt have a steroid panel (it did show him in normal testosterone range), the second test sample somehow disappeared with no results, and the first test with results, where he was clean, was taken on 12/14.
But even throwing these three out, unless you are a main event fighter on a major show in California and Nevada where you may get tested during camp, you can use most PEDs, with the exception of the ones that stay in your system a long time, with impunity in training. You know when to get off, and its no difference than knowing when to taper down hardcore training to be fully rested for fight day, and no different from manipulating your diet to make sure you make weight on fight day, and then come back as big as possible 27 or so hours later when you step in the cage. Some PEDs, Growth Hormone, you can take with impunity if you want right until the afternoon of the fight, as there is no testing for it. And while some will claim differently because there is a test being used in the Olympics, there is actually no significant test for it because to this day athletes use that drug with impunity and with no fear of a test that never catches anyone except a few near setups that have been used to prove its effectiveness in a scare tactic.
parrotbeak
Member
She's only 26? She looks as old as the Nog brothers.
dream
Member
Sexton wrote:
We have a choice to make. We can decide that we want steroids out of the sport. In that case, athletic commissions, governing bodies, promotions alike need to work together to implement the gold standard of drug policies. The World Anti-Doping Agency works with sporting organizations and produces model rules and protocols. As a minimum, off season random testing of fighters is essential. It might never be possible to get rid of performance enhancing drugs entirely, but its possible to tighten the net and change the balance between risk and reward in favor of the clean athlete. Some of the athletic commissions are starting to move toward stricter testing, but much more still needs to be done.
Right now the major promotions have the government scapegoat. The governmental agencies regulate the sport in their states, but all are financially unable to do the level of testing necessary. Plus, there is already a dual reality, to where if you are a main eventer in Nevada, you have to implement a different drug program than if you are a main eventer in Texas. And if you are a mid-card fighter, no matter where, you have more leeway than a main eventer because youre only going to be tested the day of the show no matter where you fight. And if you are in a smaller organization in a number of states, you probably wont be tested. Its impossible to have the sport be what it should be as far as testing. Its not going to happen. However, UFC can and should implement a policy. Its embarrassing if you think about it that in a sports competition, where a woman like Cyborg was for years able to beat up women who were likely either not chemically enhanced, or at least not to the level she was, that athletes have a far easier testing program than wrestlers in the WWE. And lord knows there are major issues in the WWE program, and its not close to as strong as the one track athletes have to go through. And in track, or in baseball, its all about world records and statistical numbers. In MMA, its about avoiding getting your face smashed in. In baseball, you can argue that long-term health issues are involved. In pro wrestling, there are even greater arguments due to the track record of the profession. But in MMA, or kickboxing, or boxing, the reality is, its not only a competitive advantage, but in more cases than not, its safer. Whatever issues someone taking reasonable doses may have health wise later in life is not going to be as pressing a concern as avoiding getting the hell beaten out of you next week by a chemically enhanced athlete.
Of course, then you have all kinds of issues as weve seen with not just WWE, but in football, baseball and other sports, where some very fishy things happen when large sums of money are at stake. Alistair Overeem situations, while not exact, happen in all testing sports when there are star performers, from getting advanced notice for supposed random tests, to covering up results or delaying the implementation of results. Weve created a generation of athletes who are taught by the time they are in college to lie at all costs. The honest ones are snitches, and often reprimanded by authorities. It is so deeply imbedded in many sports at the top level, and pro wrestling is a sport in this regard, that PEDs are simply part of the game that you deny at all cost, and that testing is a necessary evil that you learn the protocol of and learn how not to get caught. There is a belief, whether true or not, that deep down, whether its the NFL, UFC, WWE or the Olympics, that the authorities dont care one way or the other what youre using, only that you dont get caught under their watch and ruin plans. Those in charge may argue that is unfair, and I dont doubt in some cases it is, but it is a prevailing belief among the athletes involved.
There is no other viable answer. Eliminating the drug testing completely will give the sport a far more negative public stigma, threaten future sponsorship and even, if something terrible happens, threatens the sports life blood because the wrong thing at the wrong time could threaten current and future television deals. The answer to the problem right now, the current situation is the easiest.
Or, as Sexton stated:
We can decide that all this is too much trouble. The point is often made that MMA is more a business than a sport, and its true that many casual fans are more concerned about seeing exciting fights than what the athletes are taking before they get into the cage.
If this is the route we want to go down, then we should change the rules and allow athletes to use drugs freely, without the stigma of cheating attached. Of course there are risks and side effects, but we can at least have an honest, grown up decision about the medical issues, without the hypocrisy that surrounds the subject at the moment. Athletes could make an informed decision to balance the risks of the drugs against the risks of being the one not taking them. Neither set of risks should be underestimated. As a fighter, Ive never used steroids, and I dont want to start now. Of the two options, Id prefer to see an improved standard of testing. But the important thing for the sport and everyone involved in it, is that we come clean about it one way or the other.
On a night where the most talked about thing on the show was the officiating, Luke Rockhold, Robbie Lawler and King Mo all scored decisive wins in Strikeforces first show of the new era.
The 1/7 show from the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas (gate information not available at press time, should have it next week) debuted the format where the prelim fights would air live on Sho Extreme, leading to the main fights on Showtime.
The fighters in Strikeforce are in a unique situation. They work for Zuffa. The top fighters have no worries about when or if their next paycheck is coming. Showtime is on board for the time being, and even if the relationship doesnt last, good showings ensure being placed in UFC. But youve got guys like Gilbert Melendez, Rockhold and Mo who are limited. Unlike the guys in WEC, where they were limited from making huge money while under contract to Zuffa, Melendez, Rockhold and Mo have nice contracts, not super contracts, but money isnt an issue. But the WEC guys at least would be thought of as the best fighters in the world in their weight. With Showtime top fighters, champions in particular, they are going to be limited in how they are viewed. How good is Luke Rockhold really? Is he top three in the world. Or is he not top ten? Theres no way to find out until he loses to someone, because stringing along win after win isnt going to get him a title shot. Similar to Mo and Melendez. So the fighters, like Melendez, did, call out the UFC stars, hoping if they speak loud enough, maybe Zuffa will send UFC fighters to face them. But the problem is, UFC is not going to risk top stars losing, even if they own the group, plus the top stars are needed because of the huge number of UFC events scheduled.
All in recent interviews have expressed frustration. Rockhold thinks hes one of the best middleweights in the world, but his win over Keith Jardine in the first round may have helped him with exposure, but nobody is going to consider him top five because of it. The fight was heavily criticized from the start, given that Jardine not only has never fought as a middleweight in his career, but he came in with two wins in his prior eight fights as a light heavyweight. Mo calls out Rampage Jackson to keep in the news, because beating Lorenz Larkin isnt going to up his standing, and being four days before his 31st birthday and with the idea of going into pro wrestling in his future, he doesnt have a lot of time to sit and wait for a big fight.
I wouldnt take this too seriously right now, but Simon Kelly Inoki said he was trying to put together a Brock Lesnar vs. Fedor Emelianenko match. Only it would be a pro wrestling match between the two. Inoki said they are looking at getting Lesnar to wrestle in the IGF, and talked about potential matches with Kazuyuki Fujita, Jerome LeBanner and Emelianenko, who he said they are also trying to get to debut in pro wrestling. I dont see either Lesnar or Emelianenko doing any pro wrestling with the IGF because the asking price for Lesnar is going to be ridiculously high, and I dont see Emelianenkos people letting him do it until after his fighting career is over. Given what IGF pays, I cant see either Lesnar nor Emelianenko being interested. Its more for kickboxing legends like LeBanner and Peter Aerts who have nowhere to fight and make big money anymore to make some money, or for a guy like Josh Barnett who clearly loves pro wrestling and it allows him to do the style he likes and keep his foot in the door while maintaining his MMA career.
ESPNs Outside the Lines will be doing a piece on 1/15 (Sunday) at 10 a.m. Eastern on ESPN 2 on the pay scale of UFC fighters. Reporter John Barr asked Lorenzo Fertitta if UFC pays fighters 50% of total revenues, similar to what athletes in the four major sports get, and not the 10% numerous sources told Outside the Lines that the athletes get. In that neighborhood, yeah, in that neighborhood. The problem is, because of bonuses that we dont know, when it comes to PPVs, its impossible to even make an estimate. But the estimates people make of 10% using base pay are ridiculous, because the headliners make so much more than base pay that it isnt funny, and with very few exceptions, every fighter appearing on a PPV card gets bonused something, even if its $5,000. In addition, when it comes to a TV shoot, some of those shows are loss leaders. I dont know what UFCs deal with Showtime is, but Strikeforce was getting around $750,000 (more would be kicked in if someone like Fedor was involved, but on Fedor vs. Henderson, UFC lost significant money because of both mens huge salaries), and the payroll was $566,000. Now there is also a gate, not yet released, but tickets werent moving much in Las Vegas. Not sure what the casino may have paid for the show, but the point is, this was not a $5.6 million show in revenue and the pay was a lot more than 10%. For the 12/30 show, if we go with the idea of 800,000 buys, then Zuffa took in about $18 million from its share of PPV and $3.1 million in gate, or in the range of $21 million. Of that, we know the undercard fighters took in $851,000, and we can very conservatively figure another $150,000 in undisclosed bonuses, so thats $1 million. We also know from the lawsuit that with that level of a buy rate, that Overeem got about $2.27 million and lets be conservative and say Lesnar got $2.5 million, so its $5.8 million out of $21 million, or 28%. Thats double the 15% that WWE pays talent, also way above the 10% that so many write and claim UFC pays by disingenuously acting as if the money in the original base purses is all that is paid. But it is likely far less than 50%. Ken Shamrock is also on the piece saying, The UFC has gone out and strategically bought out every company, or they cut the knees our from underneath them when they tried to get started... Theres nothing wrong with that kind of business, but when you get in that kind of position, they dont use that position to hold the fighters hostage.
While there has been talk of Cain Velasquez vs. Antonio Silva, the impression Ive got is that there is no Velasquez fight agreed to because he wants to make sure hes ready when he fights again. Also, there is as good if not better a chance that Frank Mir will be chosen as Velasquezs opponent because its more of a win-win, in the sense no matter who wins, you can put that person against the Dos Santos vs. Overeem winner. If you go with Velasquez vs. Silva, and Silva wins, and you put Mir against someone else and he loses, then you would be left scrambling. Dos Santos vs. Velasquez or Mir both have good storylines, with Velasquez going for revenge for his loss, or Dos Santos can be pushed as going for revenge for what Mir did to his trainer, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. If Velasquez beats Mir in an impressive fashion, you could push him against Overeem, but he needs to be rehabbed. With the Strikeforce tournament final maybe not taking place until April, you can go with that tournament winner, provided he doesnt stumble in his final Strikeforce fight (tournament winner will have one last fight on Showtime before moving to UFC), as a title challenger for a show at the end of the year.
It was announced that Miesha Tate will defend her Strikeforce womens bantamweight title against Ronda Rousey on 3/3 in Columbus, OH. The original main event was the Daniel Cormier vs. Josh Barnett heavyweight tournament final, but Cormiers right hand still hasnt fully recovered so things are up in the air. The impression from watching the weekend show is that they would do Cormier vs. Barnett on the Showtime show that follows that one. Scott Coker after the show said that Tate vs. Rousey is not necessarily the main event and that announcements of more matches are to come. In the past, Strikeforce has been very reluctant to allow womens matches be billed as the main event. Some are saying this is the biggest womens fight since Gina Carano vs. Cris Cyborg, but the reality is Rousey is someone with the potential to be a star, but shes still not known past the very limited Internet audience. There is kind of a star power formula rating that you can garner, and while it is not necessarily a correlation to drawing power, it is pretty much a correlation to interest and TV ratings drawing power. Rousey right now is a 16 which is slightly below a Frankie Edgar, but shes growing as a star as in October she was a 0. Tate is right now a 2. Ill bet next week there will be this big story saying on a scale of one-to-ten I said Tate a two and how I must be blind. Carano even now is a 74, which is major star level. Above 20-25 is a star, above 50 is a pretty significant star who is a draw in MMA. Cris Cyborg before her fall from grace was a 7 and Sarah Kaufman was a 0. Its interesting because Rousey has looked flawless thus far with all her one minute armbar wins, but we dont know what she brings to the table if someone can stay out of her armbars and force her to fight standing for a while. The winner would likely defend against the winner of Sarah Kaufman vs. Alexis Davis, which is also on the 3/3 show. I think Kaufman would make for a tougher opponent stylistically for Rousey, because shes a much better stand-up fighter with takedown defense. Tate is more a grappler so if Rousey runs through her on the ground shes a threat to anyone, and if not, well see where Rousey would stand against top level competition. As expected, Kaufman wasnt happy about this, but its only fair that she should get the winner. Kaufman noted that Rousey hasnt even fought once at 135 pounds and they dont know how shell do at that weight. She was also mad because she perceives that Rousey has told people that because shes attractive and marketable she should get a title fight. That isnt exactly what she said. She said it was a professional sport and if more people were interested in seeing her get a title shot thats probably how it would turn out.
Besides that fight, the 3/3 show features K.J. Noons vs. the always injured Josh Thomson. If Thomson wins, they will do Thomson vs. Melendez III. Thomson vs. Melendez II was one of the most underrated fights in MMA history. It was every bit as good if not better live than Henderson vs. Shogun. But it happened in December which killed it when people talked about that years match of the year. Also Paul Daley is being brought back to face Japans Kazuo Misaki.
Here is the April through June schedule. 4/14 will be the Fuel show from Stockholm, Sweden. This will be a three-hour show airing live from 3-6 p.m. Eastern time. On the Fuel cards, they will be airing Facebook fights of the prelims because Fuel is doing a three-hour window. Ive got no idea why. Its not like theres anything on Fuel thats going to do a bigger rating than those prelims and the expense is already there. I know the idea of doing a five hour TV show goes against television ideas, but youre talking about a station nobody watches. UFC 146 will be on 4/21 from Phillips Arena in Atlanta. The third FOX special will be on 5/5, which is notable because that will likely be the night of a major boxing PPV most likely involving Mayweather, and theyll promote it as if the MMA fights will be over before the Mayweather fight starts. There will be a Fuel show on either 5/21 or 5/22. If its 5/21, itll go against Raw. There will be a PPV on 5/26. Traditionally thats a Las Vegas show although that is not confirmed for this year. FX is going to really be pushing UFC in June. The plans right now are for the Ultimate Fighter finals on 6/1, plus FX specials on both 6/8 and 6/29. There will be a PPV on 6/16 (if everything were to work out this would be Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen at the stadium in Sao Paulo, Brazil). The Dominick Cruz vs. Urijah Faber rematch would be on one of those shows, not sure if its PPV or headlining one of the FX shows. As far as WWE and UFC, you can see that they must have some communication or insight as WWE made all their dates and the only head-to-head for the first six months of the year is 6/16 and 6/17. Dana White had told us they were planning on 13 PPV shows while this past week Lorenzo Fertitta said there would be 14, down from 16 in 2011. There are seven in the first six months. Based on tradition, there is likely a 7/7 show in Las Vegas, but we only have dates through June. There will be a Fan Expo associated with the July show in Las Vegas (which is at this point a lock for Las Vegas) so the attempt will be for that to be a major show. I could see that being Overeem vs. Dos Santos or Jon Jones vs. Rashad Evans if things break right. There are also plans for a PPV show as the debut in Calgary in the late summer.
The MMA Junkie TV show, a weekly news show on Spike, is expected to be heavily Bellator oriented. While the show would cover UFC because they need to if they want viewers, its way to start building the Bellator brand during the year that they are not allowed to broadcast the events.
DREAM
This may be one of the last times this section exists. After the big financial losses for the New Years Eve show, there are no shows scheduled at this time in 2012. Deep is looking to be the closest thing to a somewhat major MMA promotion based in Japan at this point.
We have a choice to make. We can decide that we want steroids out of the sport. In that case, athletic commissions, governing bodies, promotions alike need to work together to implement the gold standard of drug policies. The World Anti-Doping Agency works with sporting organizations and produces model rules and protocols. As a minimum, off season random testing of fighters is essential. It might never be possible to get rid of performance enhancing drugs entirely, but its possible to tighten the net and change the balance between risk and reward in favor of the clean athlete. Some of the athletic commissions are starting to move toward stricter testing, but much more still needs to be done.
Right now the major promotions have the government scapegoat. The governmental agencies regulate the sport in their states, but all are financially unable to do the level of testing necessary. Plus, there is already a dual reality, to where if you are a main eventer in Nevada, you have to implement a different drug program than if you are a main eventer in Texas. And if you are a mid-card fighter, no matter where, you have more leeway than a main eventer because youre only going to be tested the day of the show no matter where you fight. And if you are in a smaller organization in a number of states, you probably wont be tested. Its impossible to have the sport be what it should be as far as testing. Its not going to happen. However, UFC can and should implement a policy. Its embarrassing if you think about it that in a sports competition, where a woman like Cyborg was for years able to beat up women who were likely either not chemically enhanced, or at least not to the level she was, that athletes have a far easier testing program than wrestlers in the WWE. And lord knows there are major issues in the WWE program, and its not close to as strong as the one track athletes have to go through. And in track, or in baseball, its all about world records and statistical numbers. In MMA, its about avoiding getting your face smashed in. In baseball, you can argue that long-term health issues are involved. In pro wrestling, there are even greater arguments due to the track record of the profession. But in MMA, or kickboxing, or boxing, the reality is, its not only a competitive advantage, but in more cases than not, its safer. Whatever issues someone taking reasonable doses may have health wise later in life is not going to be as pressing a concern as avoiding getting the hell beaten out of you next week by a chemically enhanced athlete.
Of course, then you have all kinds of issues as weve seen with not just WWE, but in football, baseball and other sports, where some very fishy things happen when large sums of money are at stake. Alistair Overeem situations, while not exact, happen in all testing sports when there are star performers, from getting advanced notice for supposed random tests, to covering up results or delaying the implementation of results. Weve created a generation of athletes who are taught by the time they are in college to lie at all costs. The honest ones are snitches, and often reprimanded by authorities. It is so deeply imbedded in many sports at the top level, and pro wrestling is a sport in this regard, that PEDs are simply part of the game that you deny at all cost, and that testing is a necessary evil that you learn the protocol of and learn how not to get caught. There is a belief, whether true or not, that deep down, whether its the NFL, UFC, WWE or the Olympics, that the authorities dont care one way or the other what youre using, only that you dont get caught under their watch and ruin plans. Those in charge may argue that is unfair, and I dont doubt in some cases it is, but it is a prevailing belief among the athletes involved.
There is no other viable answer. Eliminating the drug testing completely will give the sport a far more negative public stigma, threaten future sponsorship and even, if something terrible happens, threatens the sports life blood because the wrong thing at the wrong time could threaten current and future television deals. The answer to the problem right now, the current situation is the easiest.
Or, as Sexton stated:
We can decide that all this is too much trouble. The point is often made that MMA is more a business than a sport, and its true that many casual fans are more concerned about seeing exciting fights than what the athletes are taking before they get into the cage.
If this is the route we want to go down, then we should change the rules and allow athletes to use drugs freely, without the stigma of cheating attached. Of course there are risks and side effects, but we can at least have an honest, grown up decision about the medical issues, without the hypocrisy that surrounds the subject at the moment. Athletes could make an informed decision to balance the risks of the drugs against the risks of being the one not taking them. Neither set of risks should be underestimated. As a fighter, Ive never used steroids, and I dont want to start now. Of the two options, Id prefer to see an improved standard of testing. But the important thing for the sport and everyone involved in it, is that we come clean about it one way or the other.
On a night where the most talked about thing on the show was the officiating, Luke Rockhold, Robbie Lawler and King Mo all scored decisive wins in Strikeforces first show of the new era.
The 1/7 show from the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas (gate information not available at press time, should have it next week) debuted the format where the prelim fights would air live on Sho Extreme, leading to the main fights on Showtime.
The fighters in Strikeforce are in a unique situation. They work for Zuffa. The top fighters have no worries about when or if their next paycheck is coming. Showtime is on board for the time being, and even if the relationship doesnt last, good showings ensure being placed in UFC. But youve got guys like Gilbert Melendez, Rockhold and Mo who are limited. Unlike the guys in WEC, where they were limited from making huge money while under contract to Zuffa, Melendez, Rockhold and Mo have nice contracts, not super contracts, but money isnt an issue. But the WEC guys at least would be thought of as the best fighters in the world in their weight. With Showtime top fighters, champions in particular, they are going to be limited in how they are viewed. How good is Luke Rockhold really? Is he top three in the world. Or is he not top ten? Theres no way to find out until he loses to someone, because stringing along win after win isnt going to get him a title shot. Similar to Mo and Melendez. So the fighters, like Melendez, did, call out the UFC stars, hoping if they speak loud enough, maybe Zuffa will send UFC fighters to face them. But the problem is, UFC is not going to risk top stars losing, even if they own the group, plus the top stars are needed because of the huge number of UFC events scheduled.
All in recent interviews have expressed frustration. Rockhold thinks hes one of the best middleweights in the world, but his win over Keith Jardine in the first round may have helped him with exposure, but nobody is going to consider him top five because of it. The fight was heavily criticized from the start, given that Jardine not only has never fought as a middleweight in his career, but he came in with two wins in his prior eight fights as a light heavyweight. Mo calls out Rampage Jackson to keep in the news, because beating Lorenz Larkin isnt going to up his standing, and being four days before his 31st birthday and with the idea of going into pro wrestling in his future, he doesnt have a lot of time to sit and wait for a big fight.
I wouldnt take this too seriously right now, but Simon Kelly Inoki said he was trying to put together a Brock Lesnar vs. Fedor Emelianenko match. Only it would be a pro wrestling match between the two. Inoki said they are looking at getting Lesnar to wrestle in the IGF, and talked about potential matches with Kazuyuki Fujita, Jerome LeBanner and Emelianenko, who he said they are also trying to get to debut in pro wrestling. I dont see either Lesnar or Emelianenko doing any pro wrestling with the IGF because the asking price for Lesnar is going to be ridiculously high, and I dont see Emelianenkos people letting him do it until after his fighting career is over. Given what IGF pays, I cant see either Lesnar nor Emelianenko being interested. Its more for kickboxing legends like LeBanner and Peter Aerts who have nowhere to fight and make big money anymore to make some money, or for a guy like Josh Barnett who clearly loves pro wrestling and it allows him to do the style he likes and keep his foot in the door while maintaining his MMA career.
ESPNs Outside the Lines will be doing a piece on 1/15 (Sunday) at 10 a.m. Eastern on ESPN 2 on the pay scale of UFC fighters. Reporter John Barr asked Lorenzo Fertitta if UFC pays fighters 50% of total revenues, similar to what athletes in the four major sports get, and not the 10% numerous sources told Outside the Lines that the athletes get. In that neighborhood, yeah, in that neighborhood. The problem is, because of bonuses that we dont know, when it comes to PPVs, its impossible to even make an estimate. But the estimates people make of 10% using base pay are ridiculous, because the headliners make so much more than base pay that it isnt funny, and with very few exceptions, every fighter appearing on a PPV card gets bonused something, even if its $5,000. In addition, when it comes to a TV shoot, some of those shows are loss leaders. I dont know what UFCs deal with Showtime is, but Strikeforce was getting around $750,000 (more would be kicked in if someone like Fedor was involved, but on Fedor vs. Henderson, UFC lost significant money because of both mens huge salaries), and the payroll was $566,000. Now there is also a gate, not yet released, but tickets werent moving much in Las Vegas. Not sure what the casino may have paid for the show, but the point is, this was not a $5.6 million show in revenue and the pay was a lot more than 10%. For the 12/30 show, if we go with the idea of 800,000 buys, then Zuffa took in about $18 million from its share of PPV and $3.1 million in gate, or in the range of $21 million. Of that, we know the undercard fighters took in $851,000, and we can very conservatively figure another $150,000 in undisclosed bonuses, so thats $1 million. We also know from the lawsuit that with that level of a buy rate, that Overeem got about $2.27 million and lets be conservative and say Lesnar got $2.5 million, so its $5.8 million out of $21 million, or 28%. Thats double the 15% that WWE pays talent, also way above the 10% that so many write and claim UFC pays by disingenuously acting as if the money in the original base purses is all that is paid. But it is likely far less than 50%. Ken Shamrock is also on the piece saying, The UFC has gone out and strategically bought out every company, or they cut the knees our from underneath them when they tried to get started... Theres nothing wrong with that kind of business, but when you get in that kind of position, they dont use that position to hold the fighters hostage.
While there has been talk of Cain Velasquez vs. Antonio Silva, the impression Ive got is that there is no Velasquez fight agreed to because he wants to make sure hes ready when he fights again. Also, there is as good if not better a chance that Frank Mir will be chosen as Velasquezs opponent because its more of a win-win, in the sense no matter who wins, you can put that person against the Dos Santos vs. Overeem winner. If you go with Velasquez vs. Silva, and Silva wins, and you put Mir against someone else and he loses, then you would be left scrambling. Dos Santos vs. Velasquez or Mir both have good storylines, with Velasquez going for revenge for his loss, or Dos Santos can be pushed as going for revenge for what Mir did to his trainer, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. If Velasquez beats Mir in an impressive fashion, you could push him against Overeem, but he needs to be rehabbed. With the Strikeforce tournament final maybe not taking place until April, you can go with that tournament winner, provided he doesnt stumble in his final Strikeforce fight (tournament winner will have one last fight on Showtime before moving to UFC), as a title challenger for a show at the end of the year.
It was announced that Miesha Tate will defend her Strikeforce womens bantamweight title against Ronda Rousey on 3/3 in Columbus, OH. The original main event was the Daniel Cormier vs. Josh Barnett heavyweight tournament final, but Cormiers right hand still hasnt fully recovered so things are up in the air. The impression from watching the weekend show is that they would do Cormier vs. Barnett on the Showtime show that follows that one. Scott Coker after the show said that Tate vs. Rousey is not necessarily the main event and that announcements of more matches are to come. In the past, Strikeforce has been very reluctant to allow womens matches be billed as the main event. Some are saying this is the biggest womens fight since Gina Carano vs. Cris Cyborg, but the reality is Rousey is someone with the potential to be a star, but shes still not known past the very limited Internet audience. There is kind of a star power formula rating that you can garner, and while it is not necessarily a correlation to drawing power, it is pretty much a correlation to interest and TV ratings drawing power. Rousey right now is a 16 which is slightly below a Frankie Edgar, but shes growing as a star as in October she was a 0. Tate is right now a 2. Ill bet next week there will be this big story saying on a scale of one-to-ten I said Tate a two and how I must be blind. Carano even now is a 74, which is major star level. Above 20-25 is a star, above 50 is a pretty significant star who is a draw in MMA. Cris Cyborg before her fall from grace was a 7 and Sarah Kaufman was a 0. Its interesting because Rousey has looked flawless thus far with all her one minute armbar wins, but we dont know what she brings to the table if someone can stay out of her armbars and force her to fight standing for a while. The winner would likely defend against the winner of Sarah Kaufman vs. Alexis Davis, which is also on the 3/3 show. I think Kaufman would make for a tougher opponent stylistically for Rousey, because shes a much better stand-up fighter with takedown defense. Tate is more a grappler so if Rousey runs through her on the ground shes a threat to anyone, and if not, well see where Rousey would stand against top level competition. As expected, Kaufman wasnt happy about this, but its only fair that she should get the winner. Kaufman noted that Rousey hasnt even fought once at 135 pounds and they dont know how shell do at that weight. She was also mad because she perceives that Rousey has told people that because shes attractive and marketable she should get a title fight. That isnt exactly what she said. She said it was a professional sport and if more people were interested in seeing her get a title shot thats probably how it would turn out.
Besides that fight, the 3/3 show features K.J. Noons vs. the always injured Josh Thomson. If Thomson wins, they will do Thomson vs. Melendez III. Thomson vs. Melendez II was one of the most underrated fights in MMA history. It was every bit as good if not better live than Henderson vs. Shogun. But it happened in December which killed it when people talked about that years match of the year. Also Paul Daley is being brought back to face Japans Kazuo Misaki.
Here is the April through June schedule. 4/14 will be the Fuel show from Stockholm, Sweden. This will be a three-hour show airing live from 3-6 p.m. Eastern time. On the Fuel cards, they will be airing Facebook fights of the prelims because Fuel is doing a three-hour window. Ive got no idea why. Its not like theres anything on Fuel thats going to do a bigger rating than those prelims and the expense is already there. I know the idea of doing a five hour TV show goes against television ideas, but youre talking about a station nobody watches. UFC 146 will be on 4/21 from Phillips Arena in Atlanta. The third FOX special will be on 5/5, which is notable because that will likely be the night of a major boxing PPV most likely involving Mayweather, and theyll promote it as if the MMA fights will be over before the Mayweather fight starts. There will be a Fuel show on either 5/21 or 5/22. If its 5/21, itll go against Raw. There will be a PPV on 5/26. Traditionally thats a Las Vegas show although that is not confirmed for this year. FX is going to really be pushing UFC in June. The plans right now are for the Ultimate Fighter finals on 6/1, plus FX specials on both 6/8 and 6/29. There will be a PPV on 6/16 (if everything were to work out this would be Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen at the stadium in Sao Paulo, Brazil). The Dominick Cruz vs. Urijah Faber rematch would be on one of those shows, not sure if its PPV or headlining one of the FX shows. As far as WWE and UFC, you can see that they must have some communication or insight as WWE made all their dates and the only head-to-head for the first six months of the year is 6/16 and 6/17. Dana White had told us they were planning on 13 PPV shows while this past week Lorenzo Fertitta said there would be 14, down from 16 in 2011. There are seven in the first six months. Based on tradition, there is likely a 7/7 show in Las Vegas, but we only have dates through June. There will be a Fan Expo associated with the July show in Las Vegas (which is at this point a lock for Las Vegas) so the attempt will be for that to be a major show. I could see that being Overeem vs. Dos Santos or Jon Jones vs. Rashad Evans if things break right. There are also plans for a PPV show as the debut in Calgary in the late summer.
The MMA Junkie TV show, a weekly news show on Spike, is expected to be heavily Bellator oriented. While the show would cover UFC because they need to if they want viewers, its way to start building the Bellator brand during the year that they are not allowed to broadcast the events.
DREAM
This may be one of the last times this section exists. After the big financial losses for the New Years Eve show, there are no shows scheduled at this time in 2012. Deep is looking to be the closest thing to a somewhat major MMA promotion based in Japan at this point.
TheKaeptain
Banned
You can at least try and make it look better.
Maklershed
Member
parrotbeak
Member
That made this page look infinitely better, thanks Makler!
Maklershed
Member
Maklershed
Member
What do you guys think of Mendes at +205 (to Aldo -265)
EDIT: @UFConXboxLIVE: If you managed to get a ticket for UFC 141 on #UFConXboxLIVE, you can go into the app now and claim your #UFCRIO ticket.
EDIT: @UFConXboxLIVE: If you managed to get a ticket for UFC 141 on #UFConXboxLIVE, you can go into the app now and claim your #UFCRIO ticket.
You know, I think the UFC might avoid fast tracking Cain to another title shot for the time being. If JDS happens to remain champion, how do they sell Cain vs. JDS II?
PPV: How do you sell something you gave away for free?
FOX: How do you sell this rematch to a network audience again?
I'm sure they'd much prefer a new match up they can sell on PPV. I doubt the UFC wants to keep giving away title fights for free. This may be why we see Cain vs. Bigfoot instead of Cain vs. Mir in a #1 contender scenario.
If Cain vs. JDS II happens anytime soon, it would almost have to be a co-main with another big fight and passed off as a super card.
PPV: How do you sell something you gave away for free?
FOX: How do you sell this rematch to a network audience again?
I'm sure they'd much prefer a new match up they can sell on PPV. I doubt the UFC wants to keep giving away title fights for free. This may be why we see Cain vs. Bigfoot instead of Cain vs. Mir in a #1 contender scenario.
If Cain vs. JDS II happens anytime soon, it would almost have to be a co-main with another big fight and passed off as a super card.
ldcommando
Banned
Dear god...
Mazzagatti + Cecil Peoples = there are no words...
Mazzagatti + Cecil Peoples = there are no words...
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
It sounds like a tag team. They could call it The Authority of Mediocrity.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked