• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

MMA |OT3| When you lose you're a can, when you win you're unstoppable.

tass0

Banned
One could easily just say something similar like "Silva was just starting out when he lost to Chonan/Takase/etc" because in Silva's case and his annihilation of his competition in the UFC it's certainly the truth.

That was his 13th fight, hardly starting out.

Lettuce be reality, Anderson Silva is great, but he's not perfect.

He was finished by a can, then by Ryo Chonan, arguably lost a very close fight with 4-10 Alexander Otsuka, had multiple bad performances (Maia, Leites, Cote), and was dominated by Chael Sonnen for 4 1/2 rounds, a guy that's been finished more times than you can count on two hands.
 

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Seriously. Bigfoot Silva is the Great Khali of the Ultimate. Just terrible in every way other than size.

He's not even that big too (all things considered) if his Wikipedia stats are accurate. He's the same height as Overeem, Jones, JDS and Gustafsson.
I'm taller than him.

That was his 13th fight, hardly starting out.

Again, one could easily ask when Fedor's "twilight years" began. But it's a tired argument. All I know is that Anderson currently fights at the highest level and is undefeated at this high level. Fedor formerly fought at the highest level, couldn't compete at the current highest level, and is now content with just being a cash cow for a dying MMA organisation.

Lettuce be reality, Anderson Silva is great, but he's not perfect.

I never said he was. The reality of combat sports is that no-one is perfect. You're going to lose eventually. And even if you don't lose there's always those who will detract from your legacy by saying you didn't fight the best, were lazy, got lucky, had the judges give you a dubious decision, etc etc etc. I mean, Joe Calzaghe is the "perfect" boxer, but who would consider him the GOAT?
 

dream

Member
What do you think is the main reason UFC's show on Friday night didn't draw well live?
UFC has cooled off 45.3%
Johnson vs. McCall wasn't a money main event 37.1%
South Florida is hard to draw in 11.9%
Ticket prices too high 4.3%
No local fighters 1.4%
 
They should have brought back and fed Kimbo for the night to bring in the dumbass South Florida crowd. We're well beyond integrity at this point.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
It should be pointed out that half this thread picked Bigfoot over Cain a couple weeks ago. These goat discussions are stupid considering how quickly most of you do a 180 on a certain fighter.
 

MjFrancis

Member
I always figured few of us hold powerful convictions concerning one fighter over the next. This thread is 90% shit-talking and bullshit anyways. The joke only goes so far when everyone's doing it. On occasion it makes for a fine time-sink, though.

With that in mind, there's the greatest of all time to consider, but that argument gets boring, too. I'd rather call my favorite fighters than argue for the best fighters. Dan Henderson, Wanderlei Silva and Jose Aldo are among my favorites. I'll even throw the Chan Sung Jung and Cowboy as lower tier fighters I'll always make a point to see. You can't argue that shit. It's opinion, you don't like it, oh well. But it's telling of why I like MMA.
 

Centurion

Banned
What do you think is the main reason UFC's show on Friday night didn't draw well live?
UFC has cooled off 45.3%
Johnson vs. McCall wasn't a money main event 37.1%
South Florida is hard to draw in 11.9%
Ticket prices too high 4.3%
No local fighters 1.4%

where did this poll come from?

I don't think it has cooled off at all. It might be a while till we reach Brock levels again, but that's the sport. Another one will come along, and the ratings will be at an all time high again.

The past few events have been horrible, with nothing to attract the majority of casuals. And ticket prices are also definitely too high (even for the bigger cards), so it's no surprise people aren't going to pony up money for these ridiculously poor fight cards, especially the watered down ones on Fuel and FX.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
I figure I'd ask here since the Undisputed 3 OT is dead. You think I should go ahead and buy Undisputed 3? I played it at a friends and really enjoyed it though I didn't know entirely what was going on. Now that EA's working on it, I'm worried that they'll hire some new dev team that doesn't know what they're doing(Though, Ultimate Team UFC sounds kind of interesting) where as most people seem to highly regard Undisputed 3. And I don't really care about online
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
I figure I'd ask here since the Undisputed 3 OT is dead. You think I should go ahead and buy Undisputed 3? I played it at a friends and really enjoyed it though I didn't know entirely what was going on. Now that EA's working on it, I'm worried that they'll hire some new dev team that doesn't know what they're doing(Though, Ultimate Team UFC sounds kind of interesting) where as most people seem to highly regard Undisputed 3. And I don't really care about online

I think the game is crazy good in terms of amount of content and diversity of gameplay. Being able to play in Pride & UFC is great -- as well as playing with some of the old Pride guys (Chonan has a flying heelhook!). But I'm not a hardcore player -- I just play for fun with friends.
 

dream

Member
I just fucking ordered a fucking pro wrestling PPV because I somehow made up a fucking match in my mind and thought it was on the fucking PPV. ):
 

Gr1mLock

Passing metallic gas
It should be pointed out that half this thread picked Bigfoot over Cain a couple weeks ago. These goat discussions are stupid considering how quickly most of you do a 180 on a certain fighter.

Oh come on. 'Picked' is such a strong word.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
I just fucking ordered a fucking pro wrestling PPV because I somehow made up a fucking match in my mind and thought it was on the fucking PPV. ):

tumblr_m59y2mjrhm1qdkit72p.png
 

TheNatural

My Member!
When asked if he has taken the final decision on retirement from professional sport, Fedor replied:

Yes, decision is final. Now all my efforts are aimed at preparing for the upcoming battle and after the sports career will try to be useful as a union president and deputy of the Russian Mixed Martial Arts Council.

brock-o.gif
 

TheNatural

My Member!
Fans calling for an investigation of the dubious judging resulting in Timothy Bradley getting a split decision win over Manny Pacquiao last night in Las Vegas are likely to be out of luck. That's because Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer says there's nothing to see here folks, move along.

Keith Kizer said he does not anticipate any discipline or review of Ross or Ford.

"Every fighter who loses a close fight looks at the judges," Kizer said. "I think every judge should strive to get better."

This should come as a surprise to no one. After a possibly even worse decision in an April bout between Brandon Rios and Richard Abril, Kizer was equally sanguine when speaking to Bad Left Hook:

"Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with the judging. I think a lot of the rounds were 'carbon copies' of one another so if you didn't appreciate the style of Abril, you were probably going to score the fight somewhat wide for Brandon Rios. If you did think Abril was doing enough, then you probably saw...saw it for Abril by a big margin" Kizer explained.

When asked to clarify if that meant no action for the judges involved, Kizer made it clear that there would be no action taken. "I can see scoring it wide either way. There won't be any action taken as I was there at the fight and don't have any problems with the way the fight was scored. Adalaide Byrd and Glenn Trowbridge (ed note: I didn't clarify with him but I assume he meant Jerry Roth) scored it wide each way. Byrd had nine rounds for Abril, Trowbridge had eight for Rios but they saw the majority of the rounds the same.

Bob_Arum.jpg
 
I figure I'd ask here since the Undisputed 3 OT is dead. You think I should go ahead and buy Undisputed 3? I played it at a friends and really enjoyed it though I didn't know entirely what was going on. Now that EA's working on it, I'm worried that they'll hire some new dev team that doesn't know what they're doing(Though, Ultimate Team UFC sounds kind of interesting) where as most people seem to highly regard Undisputed 3. And I don't really care about online

Yes. Get it. It's such a big step up from 2010. The damage system and submissions are much better and you can have 5 round wars. I logged in 100s of hours playing it. The game features a stacked roster from Overeem to Goodridge to Frye to Mayhem. Pride mode is great and they added many moves. I also go to MMA-CAF.com and DL many fighters that aren't in the game like Fedor and Barnett. Sick game. Oh and you can do open weight fights with a certain glitch to make Hendo vs Carwin and Brock vs Wand a reality. Also Bob Sapp is in it.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Yes. Get it. It's such a big step up from 2010. The damage system and submissions are much better and you can have 5 round wars. I logged in 100s of hours playing it. The game features a stacked roster from Overeem to Goodridge to Frye to Mayhem. Pride mode is great and they added many moves. I also go to MMA-CAF.com and DL many fighters that aren't in the game like Fedor and Barnett. Sick game. Oh and you can do open weight fights with a certain glitch to make Hendo vs Carwin and Brock vs Wand a reality. Also Bob Sapp is in it.

Just play with simulation fatigue (which should be the default).
 

Boogie

Member
Okay kids, it's time for some Real Talk up in this bitch.

I missed a lot of MMA in 2011.

And I thought "It's okay. I'm in this sport for the long haul. I haven't been watching this sport since the 90's dark ages, like some of you, but in the past decade, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who has been more dedicated to discussion of this fine sport on this fine forum."

and so, I thought, in 2012, Boogie will come back to MMA-GAF with a vengeance.

But then.....

Injury after gawd-damned injury after fucking injury.

And then I come on here. And I read some of your well-intentioned defences of Dana and the Ultimate.

About how, sure, endless matchups over the next two months have been foiled by injury....but 5 of those 8 cards are "free", so you have no right to complain.

....

okay, let me stop you folks there. It's time for a lesson from Uncle Boog.

For you lonely shut-ins, you fine people who watch every. single. card. from the cold comfort of your computer screens, sure, every Fox, FX, and Fuel card (and, frankly, PPV card) is "free."

but let me drop some demographic truth-bombs on you here.

Boogie is, today, a late-20s professional, spending his days putting bad guys behind bars, and making a damn good penny doing so. The idea of paying to watch Ultimate isn't a stopping point. No.

Instead, it's a little economics concept called the "opportunity cost." Which is to say, every night Boogie might spend at home watching Ultimate in front of his computer screen is a night he is not spending hanging out with his friends, or his family, or with a hot woman. And as much as Canadians love their ultimate, in 2012, with diluted products, and injured stars, it is incredibly difficult for Boogie to say to his friends "Hey! let's spend Saturday night watching these guys you have never heard of scrap like they have no employable skills!" Quoth Mister Lesnar, even Boogie cannot turn chicken shit into chicken salad, for his friends.

That is the aspect that seems to escape all y'all internet shutins. As a a Canadian, it is ridiculous to describe how enthusiasm for this sport has bottomed-out with GSP's absence. That's just a fact; one I am not proud to admit.

It doesn't matter if the event is "free." If it ain't worth a shit, people with social lives, like moi are forced with the choice of going out with friends on the town, or watching Ultimate solo in front of their computer screen. And that is why the dilution of the product + crazy injuries is so detrimental to the sport in 2012.
 

Boogie

Member
Agreed the ones that can claim GOAT status are GSP, Silva and Fedor. Out of the 3 Fedors reseme looks most impressive. Call me crazy but I have Hendo up there as well.

I do generally think you have a screw loose, but there is no doubt that the debate for GOAT is as you have framed it. The knock against Fedor is the sustained level of competition.

At least Daiju Takase and Matt Serra are skilled sports entertainer. Bigfoot Silva is just a freak show. He's HMC with an ATT affiliation.

The Fuck You Say?

No top Mixed Martial Artist has a more embarrassing loss than does Anderson Silva to Daiju Takase.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
That is the aspect that seems to escape all y'all internet shutins. As a a Canadian, it is ridiculous to describe how enthusiasm for this sport has bottomed-out with GSP's absence. That's just a fact; one I am not proud to admit.

We Americans feel the same way, Boogie. I can't wait for the Gawd to come back and save this sport.
 

Boogie

Member
We Americans feel the same way, Boogie. I can't wait for the Gawd to come back and save this sport.

Brother Chamber, did you get the same chills I did for tha Gawd's latest road to recovery vid, when he declares "Man, I can't wait, I am telling you...holy shit... it's gonna be crazy" :)
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Brother Chamber, did you get the same chills I did for tha Gawd's latest road to recovery vid, when he declares "Man, I can't wait, I am telling you...holy shit... it's gonna be crazy" :)

Mmm, yes. It made me put in my UFC 94 DVD and think about the embarrassment Mr. Condit is in for.
 
BAD MMA related, but some movie called "Beatdown" is on cinemax right now, and it stars Micheael Bitchping and Bobby Lashley. Bisping just came out to fight and apparently his character is a "legend".
 
I either watch UFC at work or go to a bar with friends to watch PPVs, and I know hot girls who love watching UFC


However, I will say that the last couple pay per views drew a far smaller crowd to the place I work at but that may be more due to the amazing weather than the shitty cards
 

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.

God forbid GSP trips over a grape and injures himself again. But I'm sure Condit could wait another year for his big payday.

I figure I'd ask here since the Undisputed 3 OT is dead. You think I should go ahead and buy Undisputed 3? I played it at a friends and really enjoyed it though I didn't know entirely what was going on. Now that EA's working on it, I'm worried that they'll hire some new dev team that doesn't know what they're doing(Though, Ultimate Team UFC sounds kind of interesting) where as most people seem to highly regard Undisputed 3. And I don't really care about online

Related: How is UFC Undisputed 2010 on the PSP? I ask because I saw it on the PS Store and I really need something "new" to play on my Vita.

I really wish the newest game was on PSP/Vita.
 

DKehoe

Member
BAD MMA related, but some movie called "Beatdown" is on cinemax right now, and it stars Micheael Bitchping and Bobby Lashley. Bisping just came out to fight and apparently his character is a "legend".

Bisping beat Hamill and Hamill beat Jones. Bisping beats Jones. Legendary status.
Dat MMA math.
 
Fedor being the HW GOAT isn't an argument, it's a fact.

Fedor being the MMA GOAT is debatable.

Fedor is the GOAT of selecting cans, that's all. Seriously, look at how many of his fights were against people that either had a string of losses going into the fight or went from fighting low level competition to losing to Fedor to losing to everyone else in the division.

Fedor was a legitimately good fighter and was always in the top 5 or so of the heavyweight division, but HW has never been that great of a division and all that a 30 fight win streak says is that you're not fighting decent competition.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Fedor is the GOAT of selecting cans, that's all. Seriously, look at how many of his fights were against people that either had a string of losses going into the fight or went from fighting low level competition to losing to Fedor to losing to everyone else in the division.

Fedor was a legitimately good fighter and was always in the top 5 or so of the heavyweight division, but HW has never been that great of a division and all that a 30 fight win streak says is that you're not fighting decent competition.

He wasn't top 5, he was number 1 for a period of 7-8 years.
 
He wasn't top 5, he was number 1 for a period of 7-8 years.

Let me break down the kind of people Fedor was fighting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuji_Nagata
Here's a professional wrestler that came in, fought fedor and cro crop and left with two losses. Obviously not a can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryūshi_Yanagisawa
This guy had a history, but by the time he fought Fedor he'd won two of his last eleven fights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Haseman
This guy had been losing to welterweight fighters by the time he fought fedor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazuyuki_Fujita
This guy lost to every decent fighter he came up against.

Let's be honest here, Fedor's "reign" was a joke. Fedor fought in Japan, and Japan was more interested in a spectacle than an actual competition. If Fedor had been consistently fighting the top guys then that would be one thing, but he wasn't.
 

dream

Member
I used to think Fedor was the best HW in 2005 but, looking back, he fought a lot of questionable talent...like Ogawa...and TK...and New Japan Pro Wrestling's Yuji Nagata..
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
I don't care what breakdown you post or any of that stuff. Fedor was the #1 heavyweight on the planet for 8 years. That discussion is over.
 

yacobod

Banned
would fedor have been better served fighting andrei, timmy, cabbage, justin eilers, or frank mir in the ultimate? probably not. the hw competition was much better in pride during the early and mid 2000s.

pointless discussion.

ppl should be focused on how shitty the ultimate is now, and how watered down the product is.
 
Yes Fedor did fight cans and freaks, but you cant ignore that he also fought and dominated every top HW during his peak. The only guys he didn't fight were Randy & Barnett. I would like to know if Fedor is not the HW GOAT than who is?

Coleman
Nog
CroCop
Randleman
Goodridge
Sylvia
Arlovski
Herring
Schilt
Sobral

Are not cans..well maybe Sylvia but he was highly ranked at the time. Whos record is better? Cain? with 7 of his wins are full of cans? Yeah Rothwell and Kongo sure are world beaters. Carwin?....sure his best win was Mur lol. Give me a break.

I also wont even touch the world beaters like Dan Hardy, Alves, Cote, Thales Leites and Maia. That GSP and Anderson beat.
 

dream

Member
I would just like to say that it is so nice that my good friend yacobod and I understand that respect and universal agreement are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, our friendship allows us to disagree on fundamental issues, such as the legitimacy of Freddy Lenko. This is something you plebeians should learn so you don't have to stumble all over each other pretending Rush St. Pierre is enjoyable to watch.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Hold up on that Alves hate, playa. The dude was on a 7 fight win streak with wins over Koscheck, Hughes, and Karo. I don't like this stuff where we retroactively call everyone a can. In 2009, everyone seemed rather positive he was the 2nd best 170 pounder on the planet.
 

yacobod

Banned
Hold up on that Alves hate, playa. The dude was on a 7 fight win streak with wins over Koscheck, Hughes, and Karo. I don't like this stuff where we retroactively call everyone a can. In 2009, everyone seemed rather positive he was the 2nd best 170 pounder on the planet.

losses to a horror story and a hitman say otherwise.

his best wins are an over the hill WW GOAT matt hughes and karo.
 
Hold up on that Alves hate, playa. The dude was on a 7 fight win streak with wins over Koscheck, Hughes, and Karo. I don't like this stuff where we retroactively call everyone a can. In 2009, everyone seemed rather positive he was the 2nd best 170 pounder on the planet.

Maybe Alves was a bad example but look at his fights post GSP. Losing to chumps like Rick Story...
 

yacobod

Banned
In 2009

I don't understand how you guys use losses in 2012 to undermine what a guy accomplished 3 years ago. Are the 09 Lakers less legit because they got swept in 2011?

his best wins are an over the hill WW GOAT matt hughes and karo.

it's easy to discredit someone's credentials with the benefit of hindsight. pitbull never beat anybody good. i forgot about his decision win over kos, but i believe kos took that fight on short notice.

and he was finished by jon fitch, think about that for a second.
 
Many people like to shit on Pride fighters for fighting lots of cans, but they serve excellent tune ups for in between fights so fighters stay more active.
 
Top Bottom