In a world where everyone who isn't holding a belt is a can, I don't see how Pride fighters were fighting them more often than guys in the Ultimate.
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MMA |OT3| When you lose you're a can, when you win you're unstoppable.
- Thread starter Heel
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In a world where everyone who isn't holding a belt is a can, I don't see how Pride fighters were fighting them more often than guys in the Ultimate.
Host Samurai
Member
Guys like Justin Eillers and Wes Sims would be legit cans in Pride.
NovemberMike
Member
I'm not calling anyone without a tile a can, I'm calling professional wrestlers with no record that lose two fights and then never come back cans. A surprising number of Fedors opponents had had a couple of wins in the last five or six fights (sometimes as bad as two wins in the last eleven). That's a can.
TheNatural
My Member!
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only goes to show how far the ultimate has fallen because the legacy of freddy lenko is more compelling discussion than a mighty mouse, bully, or carpenter.
To borrow from legendary sports entertainer Rick Flair:
To be the man, you have to beat the man. Woooo!
As such, Fedor was the world's #1 heavyweight from the day he beat Nog in 2003, until he lost to Werdum. Doesn't matter how many chumps were sprinkled in amongst the quality opponents in that timeframe.
Full stop.
To be the man, you have to beat the man. Woooo!
As such, Fedor was the world's #1 heavyweight from the day he beat Nog in 2003, until he lost to Werdum. Doesn't matter how many chumps were sprinkled in amongst the quality opponents in that timeframe.
Full stop.
Maklershed
Member
I feel like this thread has devolved into a contest to out troll each other. Oh well. Still the best thread on GAF.
TheNatural
My Member!
Thread saved
Host Samurai
Member
Needs more Kenda Perez.
Ninja Scooter
Member
i seen this on sherdog, so i don't know if the numbers are solid, but it definitely shows a sport in the decline.
Total UFC PPV buys:
2006 - 5 270 000
2007 - 4 935 000
2008 - 6 325 000
2009 - 8 020 000
2010 - 9 095 000
2011 - 6 750 000
UFC PPV buys from January to May (to include 2012):
2006 - 1 745 000
2007 - 2 015 000
2008 - 2 155 000
2009 - 2 905 000
2010 - 3 630 000
2011 - 2 860 000
2012 - 2 240 000
2009 and 2010 coincide with the brock lesnar era.
Total UFC PPV buys:
2006 - 5 270 000
2007 - 4 935 000
2008 - 6 325 000
2009 - 8 020 000
2010 - 9 095 000
2011 - 6 750 000
UFC PPV buys from January to May (to include 2012):
2006 - 1 745 000
2007 - 2 015 000
2008 - 2 155 000
2009 - 2 905 000
2010 - 3 630 000
2011 - 2 860 000
2012 - 2 240 000
2009 and 2010 coincide with the brock lesnar era.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Will be really interesting to see how GSP's first fight numbers do when he comes back.
TheNatural
My Member!
No GSP, Silva, etc is a big drop.
Just stating the obvious bub. 2012 is going to be at 2007 or 2008 levels, so that's a decline no matter how you try to sugar coat it. In hindsight, mma's popularity in 2009 and 2010 may have been an aberration because zuffa struck gold with a sports entertainment golden goose.
other signs can be the dwindling viewership of TUF among other things.
anderson silva is not a ppv draw.
TheNatural
My Member!
He draws more than anyone outside of GSP
A question I've posed many times, friend. A question that can't be answered without reaching for someone with way more holes in their legacy. People whining about Fedor fighting Japanese cans have no idea why he was fighting them in the first place.
Can we move on now please? It's getting silly.
i don't really think he's a strong ppv draw on his own though. sure he's broke 500-700k a few times in his career, but you could make an argument that it's been because of stacked cards or his opponents, i.e. sonnen, belfort and ultimate brazil.
his highest ppv card was UFC 101, which was headlined by BJ Penn which did 850k buys. BJ Penn is actually the 2nd best draw after GSP in my opinion. He's a bigger star than anderson.
look at his last title defense, i think he did 330k buys.
Ignore the warnings, but the UFC is in for a post Attitude era WWE like decline brah.
TheNatural
My Member!
Money is money.
3) UFC 126 - 725,000 buys
Headliners: Anderson Silva vs Vitor Belfort (Middleweight Title fight), Forrest Griffin vs Rich Franklin, Jon Jones vs Ryan Bader
Japanese main eventers = death. Re: PRIDE, DREAM, etc.
More Silva = better for UFC
TheNatural
My Member!
15) UFC 127 - 260,000 buys
Headliners: B.J. Penn vs Jon Fitch, Michael Bisping vs Jorge Rivera, George Sotiropolous vs Dennis Siver
13) UFC 137 - 280,000 buys
Headliners: B.J. Penn vs Nick Diaz
smh
Not sugar coating. It's just that this is more stale than the topic of Fedor's legacy. Refer to Heel's DFish gif.
another thing, Zuffa led UFC has produced 3 bonafide stars since acquiring the company and UFC 31. GSP, BJ Penn, and to some extent Forrest Griffin.
the guys that paved the way for the UFC gravy train were pre-Zuffa fighters:
Randy
Tito
Chuck
Vitor
stars from Pride or Japan:
Rampage
Anderson
Wand
CroCop
or the WWE:
Brock
the guys that paved the way for the UFC gravy train were pre-Zuffa fighters:
Randy
Tito
Chuck
Vitor
stars from Pride or Japan:
Rampage
Anderson
Wand
CroCop
or the WWE:
Brock
Maklershed
Member
More time is needed to tell what those numbers mean but I wouldn't extrapolate a 'decline'. I'd say 2009 and 2010 were anomalies. If you look at it like a line graph you'd see a gradual increase, a spike, and then back to the previous plane. So the question is what happened in those two years to cause that spike? Liddel and Couture's final PPVs and the intro of Lesnar I'm guessing but I'm sure there's more factors than that even. I'm sure the fact that there were only a few events a year (PPV and Spike) helped those numbers.
hendricks, he throws bombs. like my good friend dream said, "for a fighter with so called great striking, martin kampmann likes to get hit a lot." and his chin isn't the best, he gets rocked in almost every fight.
most of silva's ppv appearances as a headliner have been in the 300-400k range. it's easier for me to cherry pick bad numbers for silva brah. and you might as well throw out the numbers for penn vs fitch because that's an Australia card.
I agree. If anything I have to go with Hendricks for what he brings stylistically to GSP. He moves forward with the heat.
Maklershed
Member
This. And he has great wrestling too which Kampmann has trouble with sometimes.
i concur. hendricks seems pretty rugged and durable. he's got great wrestling pedigree, and seems to throw hands with a lot of power, so i think you could talk yourself into an upset pick versus GSP, even though it could end up resembling kos/gsp II.
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was the Pac/Bradley decision as bad as a comparable Leonard Garcia decision?
yes/no?
Ninja Scooter
Member
i think UFC 100 was the peak of the UFC, and it's settling nicely into a place of being a secondary sport. The good thing for the UFC is that they don't pay their fighters shit, so I doubt they really have to adjust expectations and budgets much to stay profitable. If they were giving out multi-million contracts to every fighter that looked remotely good, they might be in trouble.
Another wrestler with high credentials that GSP will take down at will and pick apart standing while they "counter" with looping rights?
TheNatural
My Member!
uh, no
UFC 117 - 600000 buys
Headliners: Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen, Jon Fitch vs Thiago Alves, Matt Hughes vs Ricardo Almeida
UFC 112 - 500000 buys
Headliners: Anderson Silva vs Demian Maia, B.J. Penn vs Frankie Edgar, Matt Hughes vs Renzo Gracie
UFC 101: 850,000 Silva v. Griffin
UFC 97: 650,000 Silva v. Leites
Since 2008. Just stop yaco
sorry brah UFC 101 Penn vs Florian was the headline fight, Anderson vs Forrest was the co-main. do you really think 600k people bough UFC 97 for Silva versus Leites? After the disappointing Cote fight (UFC 90: 300k sup) the UFC had to pair Anderson with Chuck Liddel/Shogun in the co-main to do those numbers.
And Anderson has fought in 14 or so ultimates, care to post some of the other figures? you'll see that he's usually a 300k draw.
Fedor's only fought like 3 people in PRIDE that would qualify as a legit can.
Beside, Fedor fighting cans for the most part is because PRIDE had the worst matchmaking in the history of MMA. The other part is no legit non-Zuffa opponents.
TheNatural
My Member!
So PPV's 4 years ago count, but any since then is because of someone else?
Give up the trollwork, not working.
UFC 134: 335k buys, 9 months ago.
Absolutely worse. Bob Arum is the Heel of Heels.
Hendricks has earned that right after vanquishing Jon Fitch for the MMA community. I'll take his puncher's chance over Kampmann's any day.
Troll harder, brah.
Yanagisawa/Haseman fights were early in Fedor's career, before he was ranked, and pre-PRIDE.
Yuji Nagata is a true can.
Kazuyuki Fujita? Hold up brah, how was Fujita a can? Do you know what a can is? Fujita was 9-3, and had big wins over Mark Kerr(first to defeat him), Gilbert Yvel, and Ken Shamrock.
Was Fujita top 5? No. Was he a well-respected fighter with a good record and good wins? Yes.
Fujita had to be at least top 20.
don't worry brah, these same mouth breathers used Overeem's win over Fujita to rank him in the top 5 in the HW division a year ago.
TheNatural
My Member!
So one PPV since '08 did bad, with:
There are a number of factors that led to a low number of course. Hurricane Irene ripping through the east coast absolutely had an effect. The power outages that hit many states took out the possibility of those homes purchasing the event, or bars showing the fights, and just the threat of a power outage likely led many not to buy the event for fear it could cut out in the middle of it.
The fact that it was an out-of-country pay-per-view can't be overlooked either. Those events always do significantly less buys due to a lack of localized coverage in the U.S. and Canada, so even if a popular fighter is involved the numbers are low. And while the fact that it wasn't tape delayed would lead to the belief that it should have been higher, the Australia shows have proven otherwise, as even though they've made them live in the U.S. by staggering the start time to mid-Sunday in Australia, the cards still did not sell.
Additionally, while Anderson Silva has certainly increased his draw amongst MMA fans, Yushin Okami is certainly not a fighter that brings in viewers nor one that screams "exciting fight."
Stop being stupid.
Nobody has a chance against the Gawd, Heel.
I'm not the one claiming Chuck Liddel didn't boost Anderson's ppv draw in 2009, when Chuck was one of the biggest draws in the company.
and you cherry picked BJ Penn's bad draw against Fitch from Australia, and then used the foreign soil argument to defend Anderson.
your sad brah.
Anderson isn't a draw on his own. case closed.
ww goat matt hughes tapped gsp, and gsp tapped to strike from serra. hendricks could catch him, i mean k1 striker jake shields was tagging gsp in the last fight. he's lording over a weak division like anderson. i personally can't wait til either one of these pretenders loses so we can discredit their entire careers.
I agree, friend, but if by chance GSP has lost a step due to his injury Hendricks has the best chance to capitalize.
On the other hand, Kampmann is a prime candidate for a GSP TKO W.
Fuck, how long can you guys talk about Fedor??? Who cares!?!?!
TheNatural
My Member!
More like a big East coast power outage. I just took recent numbers, but hey by all means keep living in yours 2007-08 fantasy world.
At least you can go back to Cote 4 years ago.
Meanwhile, I'll wait for:
MMA |OT4| Where stupid trolls about 2007's HW GOAT and PPV buys don't apply 5 years later
DKehoe
Member
People not "getting it" when it comes to MMA never ceases to amaze to me.
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