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[Hitokage]

Heh, this reminds me of the time I first watched Dirty Pair a couple years ago and thought, "wow, they're 19 and actually look 19!"

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I read an article once that said that the trend started with the Japanese economic boom of the 1980's. Prior to that, the 'college-age' girl was scene as the sexual ideal, but during the boom it shifted to high school age.

And apparently it just kept sliding.

By the way, I want to mention that despite my hate for the lolicon movement, it did bring us Battle Programmer Shirase.

I would be interested in reading that article. That's interesting.

I've always thought that the moé boom was mostly caused by the ban on using actual child models in child pornography in Japan in the late 1990's.

 

[faridmon]

Well, Mazinger Z was a giant robot show from the early 70's.

Golgo 13 was a film. Actually, there two two of them, one produced in the 90's.



I think the 80's were defined by a couple things.

The biggest one for me was the influence of Star Wars. Starting with Gundam in the late 70's, just about every sci-fi anime seemed to ooze with Star Wars influences.

The other thing for me is the rise of the shounen action show. Hokuto no Ken, Dragon Ball, Saint Seiya and the like seem to have paved the way towards today's popular shows like Bleach, One Piece, and Naruto.

Also, perhaps more regrettably, the 80's are perhaps most influential for really catapulting perverted anime and sexual themes into mainstream fandom, due to the home video market.

No.

Slayers isn't 80's anime.

And I don't like those (although Golgo 13 is awesome). I'm fond of the darker 80's anime. The 80's anime that picks at its fanbase and obsession whether foreign or local (Otaku no Video), the 80's anime that depicts post-apocalyptic cyberpunk worlds (Fist of the North Star and Akira), the 80's anime that isn't scared of death and depression (Zeta Gundam), the 80's anime that's not afraid to put a smile on your face while still making you feel heartbroken (My Neighbor Totoro).

80's anime, for me, is king. 90's anime is great too, but 80's anime is by virtue dark and depressing. Beyond that, 80's anime is diverse and strived to entertain.

But in terms of animation history, I liken 80's anime to 30's and 40's cartoons. Extremely experimental, with so many innovations that we're still copying them today.

intresting, maybe i should go back and watch what i have missed, the only ones i have watched was the one i mentioned :lol

I still haven't watched Hokuto no Ken and Saint Seiya :/

 

[shintoki]

Heh, this reminds me of the time I first watched Dirty Pair a couple years ago and thought, "wow, they're 19 and actually look 19!"

17 years old

 

[Hitokage]

All of my internet anime comrades...hitokage, duckroll, teknopathetic, dead, etc....don't seem to be following much anymore either. Duckroll was saying the other day that he's disgusted by the trends too and has mostly given up on anime tv series. I mean, these are long-time hardcore fans we're talking about here, myself included, but the industry is moving too much towards trying to tickle the balls of smelly basement pedobears as best they can.

I still watch a stupid amount though, but aside from a selection of titles I can easily count on one hand, the rest is old stuff yeah.

 

[Musan]

Anime has always had a poor good:bad quality ratio. I think everyone just remember the standouts from the good ol' days. Anyways, the moe fascination has really been prevalent for the last 5 years, pandering to a small but very active audience.

A suggestion that I haven't seen yet is Natsume Yuujincho. At times endearing and funny, I would recommend it to those who liked mushishi.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

17 years old

lolis.pgn

uguuu

 

[kassatsu]

I pretty much stopped fansubbing because of this. I only watch Gundam now too =\

 

[jmdajr]

No.

Slayers isn't 80's anime.

And I don't like those (although Golgo 13 is awesome). I'm fond of the darker 80's anime. The 80's anime that picks at its fanbase and obsession whether foreign or local (Otaku no Video), the 80's anime that depicts post-apocalyptic cyberpunk worlds (Fist of the North Star and Akira), the 80's anime that isn't scared of death and depression (Zeta Gundam), the 80's anime that's not afraid to put a smile on your face while still making you feel heartbroken (My Neighbor Totoro).

80's anime, for me, is king. 90's anime is great too, but 80's anime is by virtue dark and depressing. Beyond that, 80's anime is diverse and strived to entertain.

But in terms of animation history, I liken 80's anime to 30's and 40's cartoons. Extremely experimental, with so many innovations that we're still copying them today.

man why that guy hating on Bubblegum Crisis That's like my favorite soundtrack!:lol
Dirty Pair Project Eden is also great!

 

[grumble]

Just come back in five years, and see where things are. If anything good popped up, you can watch it then.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

man why that guy hating on Bubblegum Crisis That's like my favorite soundtrack!:lol
Dirty Pair Project Eden is also great!

Oh, mannnn.

Project Eden is one of my all-time favorites.

Intelligent? No.

But awesome and fun as all hell? Ohhhh yeah.

 

[FLEABttn]

And what were these bad recommendations out of curiosity?

I've forgotten most of them as this was mainly 3+ years ago, but the last recommendation I got was for Gundam 00. Didn't like.

 

[MightyHealthy]

Slayers isn't 80's anime.

True.

Sanctuary (directed by same guy) feels like an 80's anime, though.

 

[jmdajr]

Bubblegum Crisis isn't even bad.

Now if we're going to talk about stuff like Project A-Ko, I may be more agreeable, but even that has a place in my heart because of Sci-Fi Channel anime Saturdays.

Now hating on Project Ako!!!!!:lol
Coming down on all my favorites!

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Bubblegum Crisis isn't even bad.

Now if we're going to talk about stuff like Project A-Ko, I may be more agreeable, but even that has a place in my heart because of Sci-Fi Channel anime Saturdays.

Aw, man. I adore Project A-ko.

Every time I watch it I catch a reference or an in-joke or two that I missed out on before because my knowledge of anime wasn't up to snuff.

And the animation is superb. And that soundtrack? Synth-cheese heaven.

 

[tokkun]

Anime has always had a poor good:bad quality ratio. I think everyone just remember the standouts from the good ol' days. Anyways, the moe fascination has really been prevalent for the last 5 years, pandering to a small but very active audience.

A suggestion that I haven't seen yet is Natsume Yuujincho. At times endearing and funny, I would recommend it to those who liked mushishi.

I agree about the crap ratio. However, there is a big difference between a show that has the potential to be enjoyable and ends up sucking because it is poorly executed (like Samurai 7) and a show that disgusts you by its basic premise (like Sky Girls). The past few years have featured more and more of the latter.

 

[jmdajr]

Sonic, what was that one anime movie of the old man in the machine and he fucks shit up? Or something.

It's from the 80's/90's and Sci-fi played it.

Roujin Z!!!

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Sonic, what was that one anime movie of the old man in the machine and he fucks shit up? Or something.

It's from the 80's/90's and Sci-fi played it.

That was Roujin Z.

Another CPM favorite of mine.

 

[Dabookerman]

Why do Japanese men like little girls?

The young supple skin, ready for the grasping.
The innocence ready to be destroyed.
Virginity, for the taking.
Caressing the small shivering face, looking into their tearful eyes.

He says, "Moe".

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Oh, also:

Ya gotta watch A-ko in Japanese.

Now, I'm not a sub purist like a lot of people...but this is one of those shows that you just HAVE to watch in Japanese in order to get the full effect.

Also, it doesn't really help that the dub is just downright terrible...but still.

 

[jmdajr]

I'm not hating on it, but it's been awhile. I may not be as nice to it if I saw it again. But alas, nostalgia. But the animation and action is so good I may not give a shit.

nah man, those fight sequences are still pretty damn cool! I think if anything you would appreciate the detailed cell animated fights more than ever.

 

[tokkun]

True.

Sanctuary (directed by same guy) feels like an 80's anime, though.

Probably because the manga was co-authored by Buronson of Fist of the North Star Fame.

Sanctuary is an amazing manga, btw.

 

[Bebpo]

I pretty much stopped fansubbing because of this. I only watch Gundam now too =\

Yeah, I only watch Gundam anymore too.

 

[Extollere]

One time at college I saw this gangsta-looking black guy just laughing his ass off watching Lucky Star on his computer. It was one of the weirdest experiences of my life.

:lol I went into this anime store in LA, and observed what seemed to be two legitimate gangsters (thug tattoos and all) chatting to the otaku clerk about full metal panic, or something like that. It was amazing how excited they were. It was bizarre to say the least though. Only in LA.

On the Moe/loli thing. I can't recall any show that I ever liked, or even gave a full shot. I tried lucky star, but couldn't enjoy it. I tried Strike Witches, but stopped after the 3rd episode. The lives of 13 year old girls are just not interesting :/

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

nah man, those fight sequences are still pretty damn cool! I think if anything you would appreciate the detailed cell animated fights more than ever.

It really is freaking gorgeous. It's one of those films where my hand is always on the pause button of my remote, just so I can snap at certain places and marvel at how much detail and work was put into the artwork.

So good.

 

[Hitokage]

Oh, mannnn.

Project Eden is one of my all-time favorites.

Intelligent? No.

But awesome and fun as all hell? Ohhhh yeah.

I preferred the Flight 005 Conspiracy.

 

[7Th]

I don't get why people need recommendations on what Japanese cartoons they should watch, looking at the promotional art should be more than enough to get an idea of what you're getting into: stuff with appealing and distinctive art is probably good, stuff with lifeless and stereotypical art is probably bad.

 

[Branduil]

There are still a few good shows each year. I think the biggest problem with anime is actually that most of the writers are hacks. The loli stuff is just a symptom of that.

Also, Gundam sucks.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Iria was awesome too.

Fuck I miss 80's/90's anime.

Ah, Iria.

That aired on Sci-fi the very day Dragon Ball Z premiered in North America.

I remember I did several drawings of Iria and Goku afterwards.

That was a really good day.


It was also the 3rd DVD I ever bought, right after Project A-ko and Castle of Cagliostro(my favorite anime film ever).

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I preferred the Flight 005 Conspiracy.

Aw, mannn. That was a good one too.

Also, the original TV series can't be missed. The OAVs were pretty good, too.

 

[Branduil]

There hasn't been a single good Gundam series in the past decade.

 

[Crash Station]

Only kind of little girls in anime I want to see are fucked up ones that kill each other. As for moé stuff, I don't mind it as long as it isn't the main focus. I will not watch Lucky Star for this reason.

Honestly, I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. There are still several new series that don't have either or if they do, it's very little.

 

[flintstryker]

:lol I went into this anime store in LA, and observed what seemed to be two legitimate gangsters (thug tattoos and all) chatting to the otaku clerk about full metal panic, or something like that. It was amazing how excited they were. It was bizarre to say the least though. Only in LA.

On the Moe/loli thing. I can't recall any show that I ever liked, or even gave a full shot. I tried lucky star, but couldn't enjoy it. I tried Strike Witches, but stopped after the 3rd episode. The lives of 13 year old girls are just not interesting :/

Those guys have taste well assuming they were talking about the Fumufou series.

Edit: about the Moe stuff, i really really hate it however i generally will give a series chance based on the concept with i am glad did for Higurashi which is one of my favorite series, that is entirely nothing like one would have assumed based on the style.

 

[Branduil]

Only kind of little girls in anime I want to see are fucked up ones that kill each other.

Higurashi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8wLU6E8Zsg

 

[7Th]

Story > art

a) If you don't care about visuals, why are you watching cartoons in the first place? Read a book instead!
b) Distinctive art and distinctive stories usually walk hand-in-hand.
c) I don't think I've ever watched a show that has lifeless visuals but also a good enough story to save it from being worthless.

You can't tell a good anime if it has a good art style. The unique art will catch my eye, but without a good story, or good premise, or good animation, I'm not going to like it.

The amount of shows with unique art is small enough for my criteria to be all I need to discard 90% of the stuff that is released every year.

 

[Hitokage]

I don't get why people need recommendations on what Japanese cartoons they should watch, looking at the promotional art should be more than enough to get an idea of what you're getting into: stuff with appealing and distinctive art is probably good, stuff with lifeless and stereotypical art is probably bad.

If only the world was full of 7ths!

Spoiler

Then I'd be in Hell

 

[shintoki]

Turn A Gundam and Gundam 00 s1 disagree.

No, 00 sucked period. We had about a decent half a season with part 1.

Turn A Gundam was pretty good.

 

[Geneijin]

I've forgotten most of them as this was mainly 3+ years ago, but the last recommendation I got was for Gundam 00. Didn't like.

Ouch...

Higurashi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8wLU6E8Zsg

Better one but contains heavy, heavy spoilers.

 

[jmdajr]

Iria was awesome too.

Fuck I miss 80's/90's anime.

I have that as well..on vhs! Never bought the dvd.

Anyone ever seen an anime called Photon.

it's an OVA. Funny and the animation is pretty solid.

 

[Averon]

:lol I went into this anime store in LA, and observed what seemed to be two legitimate gangsters (thug tattoos and all) chatting to the otaku clerk about full metal panic, or something like that. It was amazing how excited they were. It was bizarre to say the least though. Only in LA.

On the Moe/loli thing. I can't recall any show that I ever liked, or even gave a full shot. I tried lucky star, but couldn't enjoy it. I tried Strike Witches, but stopped after the 3rd episode. The lives of 13 year old girls are just not interesting :/

I can't tell you how many times I would go into my college's computer lab and see some jock or black guy watching Bleach or some other anime. I didn't knew us black people liked anime that much; I should get out more :lol

 

[7Th]

If only the world was full of 7ths!

Spoiler

Then I'd be in Hell

Have you ever watched a good cartoon with mediocre art and animation?

 

[Crash Station]

Higurashi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8wLU6E8Zsg

Yeah I love Higurashi. I would say there was too much moé but that just made the deaths so much more satisfying. Of couse that doesn't mean I didn't like when

Spoiler

Rika made it to a world where no one died

but I was attracted to the series becasue of the horror.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee266/rykomatsu/winter-09-10-v2exp.jpg

Oh yeah... Fuck

Well hopefully this season is an anomaly.

 

[Branduil]

Have you ever watched a good cartoon with mediocre art and animation?

Kino no Tabi
Now and Then, Here and There

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Have you ever watched a good cartoon with mediocre art and animation?

Well...I dunno.

Do you think the anime from the 70's and even early 80's had bad animation?

Of course, I always watch something with a frame of reference. Whenever I watch Battleship Yamato, I always think to myself, "The Japanese watched this while WE were watching fucking Jabberjaw and Superfriends!"

But then, I have always had a thing for 70's anime 'art'. And occasionally, a few shows actually have animation that rivals most of the stuff being done even today(Future Boy Conan, for instance)!

 

[7Th]

Why watch anything if that's the case?

Because it provides a compelling audiovisual experience.

You should read a book instead!

I regret saying that, saying that novels are about telling a story is outdated and very inappropriate. The story is merely a medium.

Cartoons, to me, are just another way to tell a story.

Rather, a story is a way of making the experience cartoons provide easier to digest.

 

[flintstryker]

Have you ever watched a good cartoon with mediocre art and animation?

Higurashi

 

[7Th]

Well...I dunno.

Do you think the anime from the 70's and even early 80's had bad animation?

Of course, I always watch something with a frame of reference. Whenever I watch Battleship Yamato, I always think to myself, "The Japanese watched this while WE were watching fucking Jabberjaw and Superfriends!"

But then, I have always had a thing for 70's anime 'art'. And occasionally, a few shows actually have animation that rivals most of the stuff being done even today(Future Boy Conan, for instance)!

I think there is plenty of stuff from the 70's and 80's with wonderful animation. Future Boy Conan is a wonderful example, but it is far from being the only one.

Kino no Tabi
Now and Then, Here and There

Really? Kino no Tabi has a rather distinctive visual style and Now and Then, Here and There has expressive and lively animation.

 

[Branduil]

Really? Kino no Tabi has a rather distinctive visual style

Distinctively bad. Actually it looks pretty generic to me, there's no real visual hooks in any of the character designs.

Now and Then, Here and There has pretty good and lively animation.

The animation wasn't terrible but like Kino no Tabi the character designs are extremely generic and simple.

 

[7Th]

Welcome to the NHK
Slayers

If you wanna talk western cartoons as well:

Early Simpsons seasons
Some later Looney Tunes

There's a lot more. But fact of the matter is, even as someone who has studied animation as a student, I've always been more interested in the story part more so than the technical part. The technical part can work fine with a good story or writing but is ultimately lifeless without. On the other hand, good writing can save almost anything.

Early Simpsons seasons have wonderful cartoony animation. I like their visuals better than the ones of newer Simpsons seasons.

 

["God's Beard!"]

True.

Sanctuary (directed by same guy) feels like an 80's anime, though.

Sanctuary is the greatest manga ever written. I heard the anime was shit, though.