• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Mobile Suit Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans S2TEKKADAN is MURDERERS, HAIL GHALLARJORN

Shun

Member
There are no good guys in Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans. It's all various shades of grey. Except Gali Gali to a degree, but even his hands aren't clean. They're just cleaner than a lot of the other important characters in the show.

I'm still half thinking that Charcolate Man and Tekkadan won't get the ending they are after. I think nobody winning will be the type of ending we see in Gundam IBO.

Naze and Turbines wasn't completely innocent seeing as they were enablers and beneficiaries towards Tekkadan, despite having every opportunity to properly guide and groom them.

Other than being stupid, Carta didn't do anything wrong. Biscuit didn't do much wrong other than never being given the chance to stand up for his ideals and stop Orga and Mika from becoming the monster that he is.

Gaelio had to make some really hard choices about subjecting his subordinate to surgery and modifications, but as a whole he's a pretty good example of a flawed character who cares about the wellbeing of people and understands that there are injustices in the world, but has trouble finding where to really apply that and help. And they just cut off that development and turned it into a physical manifestation of vengeance with little call back to his ideals and foundations as a human being.

I don't see why people continue to champion and say that Tekkadan should be allowed to do what they want when they haven't given a reason as to why they deserve that privilege when most of their actions are completely self motivated towards Orga's ideal of an easy, stress free lifestyle that he will obtain as soon as possible, as easy as possible, no matter the cost despite all their mentors telling them to not rush the process and learn how business works rather than strong arming and brute forcing their ideals and sense of what's right in every single conflict.

They don't deserve sympathy and should be tried and punished as much as anyone else.

The major difference between Turbines and Tekkadan with the former being likable and the latter being a piece of shit is that at least with Turbines, Naze didn't create a company with a primary focus on bringing in women to work as soldiers and bodyguards. He gave them multiple avenues of work such as escorting shipments and VIPs, Mobile Suit development, and more in order to give them a home where they can belong and contribute.

You don't see that with Tekkadan, even though Orga likes to pretend that this terrorist group he created is some kind of home and haven for other young boys who were subjected to the same thing. They're really selfish and single minded towards their goal and would delude themselves into thinking that everything is okay so long as they reach it, no matter how many people they fuck over.

McGillis nor Tekkadan deserves any sort of true happy ending because they're really one dimensional in their goals. Even though most of Char's actions are fueled by the hatred he built up living through his family being murdered and as much as a piece of shit Char Aznable is, he actually had a true goal in trying to make the world a better place, in his own twisted justification for it.

McGillis and Tekkadan do not show any kind of that and I don't see why we should find that it's okay to normalize this and say that Tekkadan should be given the right to kill others for the benefit of themselves. Okada has turned Orphans into your typical modern, flavor of the week robot anime and it's quite a departure as to what Gundam conflicts really symbolized.

I enjoy Orphans for what it is, but in what kind of world or situation is it ever okay to allow a terrorist, private military contractor, go on a killing spree because they have a temper tantrum over some dead members without inflection and realizing all the atrocities they've committed as an organization. You don't get to go off and murder people without consequences, and all the negative reputation they've garnered up until now should bite them in the ass.

Again ask yourself why is it okay that Tekkadan gets to enact "vengeance" and "burn things down"? Because it really isn't and Tekkadan were the ones who got themselves into the mess and got everyone else including Naze and the Turbines to be collateral damage. It's all their fault.

Remember, Gaelio is the true protagonist of this series and any indication otherwise is propaganda.
 

duckroll

Member
There are no good guys in Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans. It's all various shades of grey. Except Gali Gali to a degree, but even his hands aren't clean. They're just cleaner than a lot of the other important characters in the show.

I'm still half thinking that Charcolate Man and Tekkadan won't get the ending they are after. I think nobody winning will be the type of ending we see in Gundam IBO.

IBO will end with Olga being the king of Mars and all his friends and family will be dead.
 
Naze and Turbines wasn't completely innocent seeing as they were enablers and beneficiaries towards Tekkadan, despite having every opportunity to properly guide and groom them.

Other than being stupid, Carta didn't do anything wrong. Biscuit didn't do much wrong other than never being given the chance to stand up for his ideals and stop Orga and Mika from becoming the monster that he is.

Gaelio had to make some really hard choices about subjecting his subordinate to surgery and modifications, but as a whole he's a pretty good example of a flawed character who cares about the wellbeing of people and understands that there are injustices in the world, but has trouble finding where to really apply that and help. And they just cut off that development and turned it into a physical manifestation of vengeance with little call back to his ideals and foundations as a human being.

I don't see why people continue to champion and say that Tekkadan should be allowed to do what they want when they haven't given a reason as to why they deserve that privilege when most of their actions are completely self motivated towards Orga's ideal of an easy, stress free lifestyle that he will obtain as soon as possible, as easy as possible, no matter the cost despite all their mentors telling them to not rush the process and learn how business works rather than strong arming and brute forcing their ideals and sense of what's right in every single conflict.

They don't deserve sympathy and should be tried and punished as much as anyone else.

The major difference between Turbines and Tekkadan with the former being likable and the latter being a piece of shit is that at least with Turbines, Naze didn't create a company with a primary focus on bringing in women to work as soldiers and bodyguards. He gave them multiple avenues of work such as escorting shipments and VIPs, Mobile Suit development, and more in order to give them a home where they can belong and contribute.

You don't see that with Tekkadan, even though Orga likes to pretend that this terrorist group he created is some kind of home and haven for other young boys who were subjected to the same thing. They're really selfish and single minded towards their goal and would delude themselves into thinking that everything is okay so long as they reach it, no matter how many people they fuck over.

McGillis nor Tekkadan deserves any sort of true happy ending because they're really one dimensional in their goals. Even though most of Char's actions are fueled by the hatred he built up living through his family being murdered and as much as a piece of shit Char Aznable is, he actually had a true goal in trying to make the world a better place, in his own twisted justification for it.

McGillis and Tekkadan do not show any kind of that and I don't see why we should find that it's okay to normalize this and say that Tekkadan should be given the right to kill others for the benefit of themselves. Okada has turned Orphans into your typical modern, flavor of the week robot anime and it's quite a departure as to what Gundam conflicts really symbolized.

I enjoy Orphans for what it is, but in what kind of world or situation is it ever okay to allow a terrorist, private military contractor, go on a killing spree because they have a temper tantrum over some dead members without inflection and realizing all the atrocities they've committed as an organization. You don't get to go off and murder people without consequences, and all the negative reputation they've garnered up until now should bite them in the ass.

Again ask yourself why is it okay that Tekkadan gets to enact "vengeance" and "burn things down"? Because it really isn't and Tekkadan were the ones who got themselves into the mess and got everyone else including Naze and the Turbines to be collateral damage. It's all their fault.

Remember, Gaelio is the true protagonist of this series and any indication otherwise is propaganda.

That's a simplistic overview. Tekkadan are being used as pawns in a cruel world that they're trying their damndest to navigate through. They have stepped up against injustice when they could, protecting Kudelia from assassination and helping the oppressed on the satellites. They have killed for their cause but have never been the aggressors.
 

Shun

Member
My post above is not indicative of my opinion as a Sunrise and Bandai Namco Entertainment employee, nor is it indicative of any kind of spoiler that will manifest itself in the weeks before the climax of the series.

I hope that you enjoy our product, and I am looking forward to the conclusions you make at the end of our broadcast. We at Sunrise and Bandai Namco Entertainment would love to see what fans make of the world of Orphans and how your perspective on the conflict differs from what we had in mind when we storyboarded and brought Orphans into production.

Please look forward to all our future products and we will do our best to create a product suitable for all Gundam fans, new and old.

If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at Bandai.
 
Yet again, people are going to continue to overlook every atrocity Tekkadan has committed and enable them to enact their own sense of justice, that they are above the law and are allowed to do as they please.

They already murdered enough people and the idea that it is okay to enable this kind of temper tantrum and murderous behavior spree just because they didn't get what they wanted is quite gross.

Just because they went through "some shit" doesn't give them any right to their actions and behaviors. Tekkadan is just as guilty if not more so and to glorify their actions is to desecrate the lives that were given for them.

Tekkadan and those who enabled their rise to power should be tried for their crimes.

Mika, Orga, Akihiro, nor the rest of those children have the privilege to enact their twisted sense of justice onto other people.

Peace will only come about when these Private Military Companies are dismantled and regulations and deterrents brought back to keep people in check.

Don't fall for these overt cuts of propaganda and remember what Gundam truly stood for.

Vidar and Gaelio will bring about a new era of peace. One without child soldiers and armed economic sectors. A voice of reason amongst this endless and unnecessary violence.

Take a minute to calm down and remind yourself that this is not normal. That Tekkadan is propaganda that tarnishes the Gundam name.

Maybe you misunderstood something, Tekkadan isn't a band of justice heroes. They're hired mercenaries whose job is to complete whatever mission laid before them, with any mean necessary. First season was about getting Kudelia to her goal. The second season is about ensuring Tekkadan family can live in prosperity. They were never about peace. This group will murder and destroy everything in their path to get there. They will force the world into submission by their overwhelming combat strength.
 

kiunchbb

www.dictionary.com
Fuck you show, I thought your death flag is predictable!

Nothing worst than having a great mobile suit pilot killed outside of a suit, I guess not every pilot is like Jesus Kira and can dodge bullets.
 

duckroll

Member
Maybe you misunderstood something, Tekkadan isn't a band of justice heroes. They're hired mercenaries whose job is to complete whatever mission laid before them, with any mean necessary. First season was about getting Kudelia to her goal. The second season is about ensuring Tekkadan family can live in prosperity. They were never about peace. This group will murder and destroy everything in their path to get there. They will force the world into submission by their overwhelming combat strength.

Sounds like how mercenary forces turn into ideological terrorists in real life...
 
Sounds like how mercenary forces turn into ideological terrorists in real life...

But there is no ideology involved here. It's just some random mobster in a pimp coat wanted to pick a fight with them and made the entire thing personal.

The dude is just so mad jealous that someone else was doing real well for themselves that he had to stir up a bunch of shit to make things bad for everyone. You think Orga is sacrificing his humanity to get to where he wants to? This guy probably never had any to begin with. He sets up his former rival for a fall, gets pissed off at the head honcho isn't doing things the way he wants, then tries to setup the new rivals for another fall. The idiot is literally just going to ruin the lives of everyone around him because he is just so mad jealous. It's hilariously petty.

Honestly the biggest villain in this show is stupidity. Because it's just really stupid people conspiring together to stupid shit that will get everyone but themselves killed. While big men in charge are so caught up in scheming against each other that they refuse to get involved in the stupidity of the idiots creating a mess.
 

duckroll

Member
But there is no ideology involved here. It's just some random mobster in a pimp coat wanted to pick a fight with them and made the entire thing personal.

I'm not talking about their feud with Jasley. I'm talking about who Tekkadan are. Their ideology is their own well being, their own people comes before everyone else. They want to make Mars a better place because they come from Mars and their families and friends are there. And if they will do anything to achieve that aim, they become ideological terrorists.
 

jgminto

Member
But there is no ideology involved here. It's just some random mobster in a pimp coat wanted to pick a fight with them and made the entire thing personal.

The dude is just so mad jealous that someone else was doing real well for themselves that he had to stir up a bunch of shit to make things bad for everyone. You think Orga is sacrificing his humanity to get to where he wants to? This guy probably never had any to begin with. He sets up his former rival for a fall, gets pissed off at the head honcho isn't doing things the way he wants, then tries to setup the new rivals for another fall. The idiot is literally just going to ruin the lives of everyone around him because he is just so mad jealous. It's hilariously petty.
It's pretty obvious that he was already planning to make a move for the head position of Teiwaz and the Turbines were his major opposition, Gjallahorn gave him the opportunity to eliminate his major rival without any personal heat and also strengthen his relationship with that branch of Gjallahorn. The recent episode stated that the other heads of Teiwaz are siding with him over the McMurdo, it wasn't simply a personal feud between him and Naze.
 
ideological terrorists.
Can you define this for me?

I am sure I am missing something since regular terror is just using the threat of random and indiscriminate violence to achieve a goal. While they are a military organisation that engages in organized and directed violence to achieve whatever goal as pretty much any sort of military in the world does.

It's pretty obvious that he was already planning to make a move for the head position of Teiwaz and the Turbines were his major opposition, Gjallahorn gave him the opportunity to eliminate his major rival without any personal heat and also strengthen his relationship with that branch of Gjallahorn. The recent episode stated that the other heads of Teiwaz are siding with him over the McMurdo, it wasn't simply a personal feud between him and Naze.

Sure that makes sense from his personal point of view but he is a moron. His ties to Gjallahorn are connected to a brainless puppet. Turbines were apparently a profitable organisation that's how they got so far ahead. He completely destroyed that, the human resources aren't lost but apparently they all have to find new forms of employment so the organisational infrastructure and all the profits it brought in is gone. Tekkadan also has ties Gjallahorn which actually manifested themselves in profit making opportunities. It's not a simple feud, but it is motivated by very petty self interest. Even if everything went his way it is very likely the whole thing would still be a net negative as he would be in charge of a severely weakened organisation.
 

duckroll

Member
Can you define this for me?

I am sure I am missing something since regular terror is just using the threat of random and indiscriminate violence to achieve a goal. While they are a military organisation that engages in organized and directed violence to achieve whatever goal as pretty much any sort of military in the world does.

The difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is merely a matter of perspective in the world. Tekkadan is a military organization in the sense that they are a bunch of organized militants. Terrorists are also organized militants. Terrorists with an ideology are considered rebels or freedom fighters by their supporters. Or they are heroes in the states that sponsor them to further their cause.

What started as an internal coup to rid themselves of leaders they deemed unfit to lord over them has turned into a personal mission to take over Mars for the security and benefit of the Tekkadan "family". They are sponsored by fringe elements of other governing bodies and political activists who seek to use their military might to subvert ruling powers, destabilize the order of things, and allow for upheavals which will benefit their sponsors, who will then grant them more power to achieve their goals.

Tekkadan is not a recognized interplanetary army. They are mercenaries used in proxy wars. That's terrorism. Terrorism doesn't have to target civilians. The people who fight in Tekkadan are not fighting purely for money, they feel they are part of a family unit and look towards Orga as a leader whose ideals they share. That's ideology.
 
Of course, then we get into the whole idea that the only difference between terrorists and a real military/police force is government backing, which can be established through political dealings (which is what Orga is somewhat attempting) or military coup.

The difference between the origins of Gjallarhorn (that we know of) and the current Tekkadan is one of scope. Use Gundam Frames to establish a strong threat and then use that to enforce order and peace.

And note, for the most part, outside of their starting arc, Tekkadan has operated at the behest of legitimate government or private organizations.
 
So they are gonna make sure all the Turbines girls, plus the Teiwaz engineers (that hooked them up real good) and the old man McMurdo who favoured them (and Naze) and funded most of their shit - are out of the way before they "burn it all down", right?









....right?
 

Rymuth

Member
So they are gonna make sure all the turbines girls, the teiwaz engineers that hooked them up real good and the old man McMurdo who favoured then and Naze and funded most of their shit are out of the way before they "burn it all down", right?









....right?
Orga decided he wants to be king of an entire planet shortly after failing to keep two branches afloat.

I doubt he had the foresight to haves thought that far ahead.
 

duckroll

Member
Outer Heaven, basically.

Not quite, because Outer Heaven never cared about any particular country or anything. In this case, Tekkadan is very much tied to Mars. They are territorial. They are also tied down to Kudelia and the Biscuit farm. They will fight to protect these things. But the thing is, Tekkadan is not a force that cares about diplomacy or international law or treaties. They operate willingly outside of that, even if they do work for legitimate powers. That's what makes them a terrorist force. It is actually no different from looking at how Al Queda is considered a terrorist force when they also have ties to a legitimate government but operates outside of that to achieve their aims. The same can be said of Hezbollah. Let's not forget that Al Queda was originally armed and supported by the American government to fight Russians.

When all this is over if anyone is still alive, if Mars gains independence there is no question Tekkadan will be the military force enforcing that independence. When it comes to disagreements and Earth trying to exert influence, does anyone really believe Tekkadan is going to sit around and let the government take care of things? Lol no.
 

jgminto

Member
I'm not sure how much Tekkadan actually cares about Mars itself, it's just a home base for them similar to the Mother Bases in various Metal Gear games. I never got the impression that any of them cared about Kudelia's fight for Martian Independence outside of their employment and personal relationships with Kudelia. We also don't really have much indication of the boundaries of space law outside of "against Gjallahorn" and at what points Tekkadan has broken past that.
 
Tekkadan is not a recognized interplanetary army.
According to who and what? They are not rebels, they are not freedom fighters. They are operating within the existing bureaucratic structure and their success is founded entirely within recognition and acceptance of existing political and military organizations.

Their entire operation isn't extra legal.

But the thing is, Tekkadan is not a force that cares about diplomacy or international law or treaties. They operate willingly outside of that, even if they do work for legitimate powers. That's what makes them a terrorist force.
Ok so every government in the world is a terrorist organisation. Got it.
 
I'm not sure how much Tekkadan actually cares about Mars itself, it's just a home base for them similar to the Mother Bases in various Metal Gear games. I never got the impression that any of them cared about Kudelia's fight for Martian Independence outside of their employment and personal relationships with Kudelia. We also don't really have much indication of the boundaries of space law outside of "against Gjallahorn" and at what points Tekkadan has broken past that.

They certainly didn't care about any of that. Kudelia hired them so they must complete their job. Tbh, Orga probably doesn't know what "King of Mars" even means. What kind of responsibility he will have when they get there. All he knows is once he's the King, no one will want to mess with him and his family, which is a very childish way to look at things. That's why Naze said that Orga was so blinded by that title, that he's rushing his way to become the king without considering what happens around him or what will be waiting for him at the end.
 

gatti-man

Member
This show is getting brutal. Like an animated game of thrones. I can't take how Mika is just fading away every time Orga needs him to save the day. Things have changed so much since season 1 tonally.
 
The whole point of the "Gjallarhorn used Gundams to enforce order 200 years ago" thing is just to draw a 1:1 parallel with Tekkadan in the current day doing effectively the same thing.

It's not terribly deep. But it's effective, to me.
 
I went slack jawed. It was just so brutal. I felt is was playing the "
Lafter
will go back with Tekkadan after all" flag.

I'm from Tekkadan and I say kill them all!
 
40 (still behind)
C3d22lGWMAA4dLL.jpg:small
C3d4LVWWQAI9ZTB.jpg:small

Ride being hit while he was having a moment was lol.

Kind of emotional but I kind of had no ties to the Turbines, otherwise great seeing Amida really give it her all, kind of the best performance and most surprising performance of all up there with Fram Nara (gAGE), while Juileta seemed like she failed to even metter expectations, I thought she was trying to make a name for herself, but if she was truly struggling that much and actually in fear and frightened, then welp.
 

RRockman

Banned
oh my goodness. I was casually following S2 after watching S1. But I kept putting off ACTUALLY watching it because I was kinda busy. I was sad after I heard how the
Turbines died
but after hearing
how Lafter died
I immediately dug up 41 and watched it.
She did NOT deserve to die like that and it makes my blood boil. She survived all of s1 including EIN only to die in a freakin hit? I kinda wish they killed her in S1 if they were going to kill her like this. it feels so pointless!

also I didn't know there was a mega thread for IBO at all! I kinda thought this would be in the gundam mega thread.
 
Season 2 on point. I thought S1 was okay. Nothing special. S2 elevating quite a bit. I'd say this is becoming one of my favorite non-UC shows.
 

TheFlow

Banned
Woah these last 3 episodes Have been amazing.

Not a fan of the new op song but the ending is perfect along with the image of everyone.

But damn shit is about to get real
 

Zyzyxxz

Member
Man what a punch to the guts, I really wasn't expecting that. Haven't been that saddened since Gundam 00 when Lockon died.
 

Drayco21

Member
I was not prepared for the savageness of 41, holy shit.

And it's so casual too; just blap, blap, blap gone- after all the death flags and the fight with Ein, the big dramatic sacrifices with the Turbines just one episode prior, for her to go out just out of nowhere like this is a really damn good punch to the gut.

Looks like we might be going full Zeta ending after all.
 
Honestly the most impressive thing about that scene was that for a second I thought they actually animated people walking around in the background. Turns out it was just another death flag.
 

yami4ct

Member
Holy shit. I did not expect that. It seems like everything we thought the show was going to be when Okada's writing got announced is finally coming to pass. Man. This show can be so cruel at times.

I also agree with Duckroll's sentiment. Everything post mobile armor has been absolutely stellar. Show really really doubled down on what worked in Season 1.
 

stryke

Member
Rex is a downgrade for me in terms of design. The tail just looks awkward sticking out of the back. No doubt it'll wreck some shit though.
 

Tecl0n

Member
So finally had time to get up to date with the show.

Gotta say i'm impressed so far.

Also, Iok is gaining traction on the Riddhe Fuckface scale.
 
Top Bottom