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Mormon/Ex-Mormon Thread of 3 hour blocks and salvation flowcharts

L

Laurentius

Member
ronito said:
So there's rumblings and rumors of rumblings again. Remember the guy that was personal friends with Elder Holland and was a Stake President (or was it mission president) and got the second annointing? He's saying that something should be coming out in October which will "make every member have to choose whether to continue believing or not."

Personally, exmormons have been saying crap like this for ages. But honestly this guy was high up enough in the church that he has an actual chance of delivering and he did call the mission age change weeks before it came. For me I'd think it'd have to be an apostle leaving or something of that magnitude. But honestly, I just expect disappointment. But I'm posting this here so we can either come back and laugh at what a big deal was made of something so inconsequential (or that never happened) in October.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been reading what he's had to say. Not sure how much I believe him. Or, rather, I'm sure he thinks that whatever info he has will be devastating, but I'm very skeptical as to whether it'll actually be anything close to the magnitude that he's portraying. One recent thing he said was along the lines of "I wish I hadn't caused so much excitement among the ex-Mormon community about this, in case it doesn't live up to it -- but seriously, this'll be the Mormon apocalypse!".

I enjoyed his interview on Mormon Stories, but he does seem like a somewhat dramatic person. I would be seriously surprised if it's anything that causes more then a little stir among the ex/post communities.

I wonder if it has to do with that GA that was supposedly meeting with Grant Palmer?
 
L

Laurentius

Member
Doodis said:
What's the name of this guy you're talking about? I'd like to look up that podcast.
Click to expand...

Tom Phillips. This was the interview that Dehlin decided not to publish on Mormon Stories, though. The podcast is still out there, though, so you can find it (since Dehlin gave it to Tom and said that he could use it as he pleased).

He's also the current editor of Mormon Think, or something like that.
 
R

ronito

Member
SenseiJinx said:
Yeah, I've been reading what he's had to say. Not sure how much I believe him. Or, rather, I'm sure he thinks that whatever info he has will be devastating, but I'm very skeptical as to whether it'll actually be anything close to the magnitude that he's portraying. One recent thing he said was along the lines of "I wish I hadn't caused so much excitement among the ex-Mormon community about this, in case it doesn't live up to it -- but seriously, this'll be the Mormon apocalypse!".

I enjoyed his interview on Mormon Stories, but he does seem like a somewhat dramatic person. I would be seriously surprised if it's anything that causes more then a little stir among the ex/post communities.

I wonder if it has to do with that GA that was supposedly meeting with Grant Palmer?
Click to expand...

If it was just a GA I don't think it'd be anywhere close to the "Mormon Apocalypse." It'd either have to be some sort of historical document a financial fiasco or an apostle leaving.

I don't really get the guy. He keeps saying stuff like "Don't get overhyped!" and in the next breath says "It will be the end of mormonism as we know it!"

I just wish the guy would just put it out and let everyone decide just how big it will be. I did hear a gay mormon say that he thought it'd be that the church was going to reverse their stance on gay marriage. I think the chances of that are as likely as this guy actually delivering, or worse.
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Member
One thing I do have to say about the ExMo community is that, while there are a few who are getting all hyped and actin a fool, the majority seem to be approaching this with a healthy amount of skepticism. There was also the same skepticism directed toward Grant Palmer when he said he was in contact with a GA and Mission President who were/are secretly disaffected and had knowledge of all of the apostles being unbelievers...proof please?

That said, I struggle to even imagine what such info could be. There are so many issues with church history, The Book of Mormon/Abraham, racism, etc. which should add up to a giant smoking gun...yet people still believe. I think people just want to believe and just want it to be true, so much so that I think Joseph Smith himself could appear at General Conference, say he made the whole thing up and people should quit, and a large contingent would say it was some trick from Satan and we gotta hold to the rod. Seriously.

So whatever Phillips has, I'm almost positive it will make those of us who are out simply nod our heads and think "well, that figures..." and it will make those in the church who even hear about it shake their heads at the lengths Satan and his followers will go to in order to discredit the Lard's one true church. Maybe it'll bring some fence sitters over...that's all I can really see happening.
 
R

ronito

Member
Thaedolus said:
One thing I do have to say about the ExMo community is that, while there are a few who are getting all hyped and actin a fool, the majority seem to be approaching this with a healthy amount of skepticism. There was also the same skepticism directed toward Grant Palmer when he said he was in contact with a GA and Mission President who were/are secretly disaffected and had knowledge of all of the apostles being unbelievers...proof please?

That said, I struggle to even imagine what such info could be. There are so many issues with church history, The Book of Mormon/Abraham, racism, etc. which should add up to a giant smoking gun...yet people still believe. I think people just want to believe and just want it to be true, so much so that I think Joseph Smith himself could appear at General Conference, say he made the whole thing up and people should quit, and a large contingent would say it was some trick from Satan and we gotta hold to the rod. Seriously.

So whatever Phillips has, I'm almost positive it will make those of us who are out simply nod our heads and think "well, that figures..." and it will make those in the church who even hear about it shake their heads at the lengths Satan and his followers will go to in order to discredit the Lard's one true church. Maybe it'll bring some fence sitters over...that's all I can really see happening.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. I've always said that the Prophet could get up in GC and say "You know, this isn't true. I've never seen Christ or recieved a revelation neither have any of the 12 or the first presidency. We're calling all missionaries home." And people would think it was just a test of faith.

Philips keeps being bipolar on the whole thing. On one hand he's like "Hey, don't get too hyped. There's nothing out there that could kill the church." And then follows it up with "But after October it will be very clear to even the most faithful believer that the church is most likely a fraud." He's not helping himself out.

If it's anything historical then it's a non-starter. There's just no point. There's already enough history to debunk the church thoroughly for anyone willing to take history stuff as evidence. Finance stuff? Possibly. It'd have to be rather huge though but even then I think most mormons would just write it off as a few bad apples. A GA leaving? I don't think that'd have any impact really. I think everyone that knows a few GAs know of a few that have doubts. I don't think it would have any impact other than "interesting..." even if a group of GAs left I don't think it would have any impact. Most would chalk it up to bad apples. The only thing that I can think would have any impact would be an apostle leaving. Which I just don't see happening.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
There's only one thing that could shake the church to the core.

If someone found a manuscript predating the BoM of the BoM itself attributed to Sidney Rigdon, but that isn't happening.

Anything else from an apostle coming out as non-believing, to criminal dealings by the corporation of the church, to almost anything else won't have the impact he is claiming will happen.

You'd have to specifically discredit the claimed source of the BoM for it to be seen as false.

And even then you'll have a vast contingent that would claim it was a Hofmann level forgery.
 
L

Laurentius

Member
I agree with Thaedolus, in that the most that it will do is possibly move some fence sitters one way or another.

An apostle leaving would definitely be surprising and would cause a lot of contention and strife, but it certainly wouldn't be the "Mormon apocalypse", and it wouldn't signal the end of the church or anything like that. It would be faith strengthening for some members because, you know, "even the elect shall be deceived". And it's not like apostles have never apostasized in church history - they like to tell stories of those that did in early church history even, to prove one point or another.

Even though I don't believe anymore, I don't want the end of the Mormon church or anything like that, and I don't even think such a thing is feasible. I would, however, like to see certain things change about the church. If this can bring about some change for the better, then I'm all for it. Maybe there will be a legal precedent for, say, not allowing bishops to interview minors about masturbation. I feel that's something that's resulted in a lot of unnecessary heartache and depression among so many kids (and adults), and opens up so many doors for abuse. (Not even necessarily saying physical or sexual abuse here, but emotional.)

Anyway, just an example.
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Member
I thought this was an interesting podcast that showed up on the ExMo reddit. I remember listening to the same talk on my mission and having the same thoughts of one of the commentators: am I dooming people by knocking (clapping) at their door and having them brush me aside?

Apparently my grandfather knew McConkie, as well as Dallin Oaks (they both practiced law and knew each other through BYU somehow). He had a lot of nice things to say about Oaks...not so much about Bruce.
 
F

Furyous

Member
This thread seems on the up and up.

Just out of sheer curiosity, who is actually a current member of the church?

I'm not sharing my conversion story because that's a bit personal.

The culture is similar to any other church. There are common sense things you can and should not do just like with any other religion.
 
R

ronito

Member
Thaedolus said:
I thought this was an interesting podcast that showed up on the ExMo reddit. I remember listening to the same talk on my mission and having the same thoughts of one of the commentators: am I dooming people by knocking (clapping) at their door and having them brush me aside?

Apparently my grandfather knew McConkie, as well as Dallin Oaks (they both practiced law and knew each other through BYU somehow). He had a lot of nice things to say about Oaks...not so much about Bruce.
Click to expand...

I'll have to listen to it. I actually like the mormon expositor.
My mom used to work with McConkie's son. It's where my family learned about the truth about mormon "dynasties" It was serious business. It even made my staunchly devote Mormon woman very cynical about the leadership.

BTW, I've heard the same thing. Bruce was not a nice guy.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
Furyous said:
This thread seems on the up and up.

Just out of sheer curiosity, who is actually a current member of the church?

I'm not sharing my conversion story because that's a bit personal.

The culture is similar to any other church. There are common sense things you can and should not do just like with any other religion.
Click to expand...

I'm a current member.
 
R

ronito

Member
Furyous said:
This thread seems on the up and up.

Just out of sheer curiosity, who is actually a current member of the church?

I'm not sharing my conversion story because that's a bit personal.

The culture is similar to any other church. There are common sense things you can and should not do just like with any other religion.
Click to expand...

Not many active mormons here sadly. Fathead is the main one that actually posts. Most of the rest of us are former mormons (Yorimoto doesn't count, he's secretly one of us).

As to the culture similar to any other church, I'd say that's most likely true outside of Utah.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
ronito said:
Not many active mormons here sadly. Fathead is the main one that actually posts. Most of the rest of us are former mormons (Yorimoto doesn't count, he's secretly one of us).

As to the culture similar to any other church, I'd say that's most likely true outside of Utah.
Click to expand...

Feel my secret combinations all over you.
 
R

ronito

Member
So apparently there's a guy named Denver Snuffer. And something's up with him? Anyone wanna fill me in on what's going on?
 
F

Fathead

Member
And reading a bit more, it seems his premise is that the church has slowly moved into a state of apostasy since the death of Joseph (that seems to be the consensus from the positive reviews on his book).

If that is the case, I'm not shocked that he has been called in for a disciplinary hearing.
 
R

ronito

Member
Fathead said:
And reading a bit more, it seems his premise is that the church has slowly moved into a state of apostasy since the death of Joseph (that seems to be the consensus from the positive reviews on his book).

If that is the case, I'm not shocked that he has been called in for a disciplinary hearing.
Click to expand...

really? All that fuss about a guy who says things that'll get you into a disciplinarian council gets called into a disciplinarian council? Sheesh.
 
R

ronito

Member
Speaking about fuss.
Elder Nelson's wife wrote a book called the "Not even once club" which is about a club where these kids get together and promise essentially to never sin. Not even once.

Unsurprisingly, she got a lot of flak from the exmormon community.

But suprisingly, much of the active mormon community on the internet seems to be holding her over the fire about it too.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1609073371/?tag=neogaf0e-20
 
D

Doodis

Member
ronito said:
Speaking about fuss.
Elder Nelson's wife wrote a book called the "Not even once club" which is about a club where these kids get together and promise essentially to never sin. Not even once.

Unsurprisingly, she got a lot of flak from the exmormon community.

But suprisingly, much of the active mormon community on the internet seems to be holding her over the fire about it too.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1609073371/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Click to expand...

Those reviews are pretty funny.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Furyous said:
This thread seems on the up and up.

Just out of sheer curiosity, who is actually a current member of the church?

I'm not sharing my conversion story because that's a bit personal.

The culture is similar to any other church. There are common sense things you can and should not do just like with any other religion.
Click to expand...

I'm a current and active member. I'm the Young Men's secretary in my ward. I'm just not all that active in the thread anymore, because I'm not interested in playing the apologist/defender role. I'll just say that I'm happy where I stand with the church and what it's doing for me and my family.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
ronito said:
I bet there'll be "uproar" which frankly I don't think there should be.

A guy gets exed for saying the church has gone into apostasy? Shocking!
Click to expand...

He's very spiritual about the whole thing too. His wife prayed, he wanted his family to understand what was happening. He has a testimony of what he has written and continues to believe the foundational claims of the church and most of the trappings.

Both he and the church can't be right. Either the truth is the same for everyone, or the Holy Ghost is useless as a way to confirm an eternally important truth.
 
V

vehn

Member
I'm not Mormon and I'm at some Mormon BBQ and I brought Lipton iced tea. My friend told me why nobody's drinking it...
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
This is from the very tiny Rexburg GAF meet up. We apologize for not inviting you guys, but this was kinda short notice.
ejEW07I.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
Ordain women thingie?

My sister in-law is pretty tightly connected to some of the individuals pushing the ordain women movement and is pretty gung ho about it.

There was recently a tri-stake young women's activity in her area where they were teaching the girls to sew and fold laundry properly...

This was around the same time the young men were going on High Adventure.
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Member
Yoritomo said:
Ordain women thingie?

My sister in-law is pretty tightly connected to some of the individuals pushing the ordain women movement and is pretty gung ho about it.

There was recently a tri-stake young women's activity in her area where they were teaching the girls to sew and fold laundry properly...

This was around the same time the young men were going on High Adventure.
Click to expand...

Oh come on, everyone loves that fast and testimony meeting right after girls camp...
 
R

ronitoswife

Neo Member
Yoritomo said:
One of these testimony meetings turned into the girls basically doing shout outs to their friends through tears :(
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HAHAHAHAHAHA! Okay this made me laugh. I've been to one to many of those testimony meetings. In fact when I was the assistant camp director I made it a point to have a lesson on what a testimony was right before our testimony meeting. It ended up well and we actually had a wonderful meeting without any of the drama that I've seen with telli-monies and travel-monies and revelation-monies and whatever else happens. I remember thinking "why didn't my young women leaders do this for us?" It probably would have cut out a ton of time and unnecessary drama.
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
So I'm not sure if y'all have seen this, but after "BYU-I Secrets" on which I've sort of changed my opinion but not really, the new buzz site around BYU and BYUI seems to be The Bunyion. I haven't looked around it all that much, but the article about the LDS Church running the government during the shutdown had a pretty funny and irreverent remark about Assad meeting with the Missionaries.

So there you go.
 
R

ronito

Member
Someone once told me I was the funniest mormon ever.
I took it as a big compliment then I thought of the competition....
:(
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Fathead said:
Tallest person at the midget convention, ronito.



And the assad bit was the funniest thing there, corvo.
Click to expand...

I confess it was the only article I read and the only thing that made me laugh. I mostly posted the rest because the site itself is growing in popularity.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
I enjoyed Elder Oaks' talk. I have said before that I think gay marriage should be legal since America is a secular nation, but the moment the church says, "gay marriage is cool with us" is the moment I turn in my recommend.
 
B

Brianemone

Member
Anyone else doubting their doubts?

I watched a bit of the priesthood session as someone on my facebook posted a link to the live stream. I listened while drinking my Mojito and relaxing in the sun on a glorious NZ Sunday. My kids played with some of their friends that they had invited over to play after attending a live studio recording of a popular morning tv show.

I couldn't help but be incredibly grateful for how different our life is now and how much clearer our priorities are now that we no longer attend church.

On a side note, I'm glad I tuned in after the talk on mental health, cause that probably would have made me rage pretty hard. I've suffered from depression since I was about 12 and the church completely inhibited me dealing with it in any way. Faith will fix everything!!!
 
L

Laurentius

Member
Brianemone said:
Anyone else doubting their doubts?

I watched a bit of the priesthood session as someone on my facebook posted a link to the live stream. I listened while drinking my Mojito and relaxing in the sun on a glorious NZ Sunday. My kids played with some of their friends that they had invited over to play after attending a live studio recording of a popular morning tv show.

I couldn't help but be incredibly grateful for how different our life is now and how much clearer our priorities are now that we no longer attend church.

On a side note, I'm glad I tuned in after the talk on mental health, cause that probably would have made me rage pretty hard. I've suffered from depression since I was about 12 and the church completely inhibited me dealing with it in any way. Faith will fix everything!!!
Click to expand...

Not a fan of the "doubting your doubts before you doubt your faith" quote...this one is going to stick around for a long time, and it's a good thought blocking technique. It's also a double standard, as the church encourages people of other faiths to doubt their faith.

On the subject of mental health, have to agree with you on the damage of "faith fixing everything". If "wicknedness is misery", then if someone is miserable it is not a far stretch to assume the are wicked.

While I didn't listen to the talk, I did hear that Holland did go to some lengths to de-stigmatize mental health issues during the talk, which is a good thing if true.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
AlteredBeast said:
I enjoyed Elder Oaks' talk. I have said before that I think gay marriage should be legal since America is a secular nation, but the moment the church says, "gay marriage is cool with us" is the moment I turn in my recommend.
Click to expand...

Your membership in the church is conditioned on their position on gay marriage?
 
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