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[Thaedolus]

Well, ok, regarding the torture guy...I don't think his Mormonism inspired him to be a torturer, obviously, but I do think Mormonism inspires a devout nationalism and loyalty to America, which is why so many get picked up by the CIA and the other government acronym agencies. That devotion and loyalty can then be abused by an "ends justify the means" mentality. Nobody wants another 9/11 right? So anything which can be done to prevent that from happening again is on the table...that hardline devotion and loyalty likely creates a strong confirmation bias where, despite all the evidence about the inefficacy of torture, men like Jessen proceed with heinous and inhumane acts. See also: September 11, 1857, which is still one of the worst massacres in American history.

It also brings up the interesting subject of church discipline. Obviously a soldier or law enforcement officer committing a legitimate homicide in the line of duty isn't disciplined for violating "thou shalt not kill." But ineffective, dehumanizing and vile torture? I see a clear distinction in the morality here. And my loyalty to the American flag is due to it representing the ideals that this country was supposedly founded on, and committing these kinds of acts in the name of that flag seems to be one of the most DISloyal things one can do. It's a muddy water we sail in here.

 

[ronito]

I don't think it's as complicated as that. I think that the church just attracts people that love following authority and feel that authority is important and should be maintained.

 

[ronito]

Well this just breaks my heart

http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/2pawvc/i_found_out_too_late/

Sadly, this is something that my wife and I know about all too well. When were getting serious about getting married since I had been divorced I had to wait for a sealing clearance. No one really knew how long that would take, it could take weeks, months or more than a year. Further we had to jump through whatever hoops our bishops and stake presidents decided to devise for us before they'd even submit the paperwork. Many, many people told us to hold off on getting married until we could get married in the temple. My wife's bishop said it was "OK" to do a civil marriage first,I didn't look to my bishop for permission. In the end we decided to just get married civilly first and work on the clearance later. We lost some friends due to that and several people decided to not go to our wedding because of it and even got several lectures at our wedding because of it. I remember my wife's family being like "It's a shame about your wedding" or "I don't know what to tell this to my kids" until my wife was like "Are you embarrassed? Because I'm not embarrassed. This is my special time." It was really a shameful thing to see. Because my wife was so overjoyed about getting married and starting a life with me. It's the happiest I've ever seen her and a vast majority of her family couldn't support her or share in it with her. Her mom turned around on our wedding day saying it was "Perfect" but I feel sad for her that she missed out on all the perfect days prior to that because she was so worried about the way we were getting married, and those days of the stressful joy of helping a daughter get married never come again.

I remember one of my wife's friends came to me and said,
"Do you love her? If you love her, you'll wait for her. She's worth waiting for. Show her she's worth it. She deserves better." Found out much later the guy was in exactly the same boat as we were and instead of deciding to wait for clearance they got married in a civil ceremony first. If I see that guy again I'm punching him in the throat.

We would've waited if we decided that. But I value every day we have together and I'm glad we decided how we did and can't see any value in tossing out a swathe of time being together for really nothing. And it's not just in our lives we see this. We see it all the time in our single friends and family. I often say that the church can be downright toxic, and people think I'm just being bitter, but it's shit like this. Stories I hear like this. And that I hear and see them so often that makes me think thus.

 

[CorvoSol]

Oh boy guys guess what side of the ferguson issue my family foundations teacher is on.

 

[Yoritomo]

Oh boy guys guess what side of the ferguson issue my family foundations teacher is on.

The pedantic side that throws out the broader message because the case itself isn't a pristine example of what blacks in the US are arguing, and because of this chooses to show his superiority to everyone else by shutting down any legitimate argument that comes out of the culturally relevant idea that an overwhelming number of blacks are victims of systemic issues in our corrupt and fundamentally racist justice system?

 

[ronito]

He'd have to be on the side against the excessive force being used by a government entity. Given how he views government intrusion as Satan's plan, there's no other way to argue without him being a feeble minded hypocrite

 

[Fathead]

Come on sheeple. God founded america and it does no wrong except when it disagrees with the church and then its just another satan led worldy thing.

 

[ronitoswife]

Well this just breaks my heart

http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/2pawvc/i_found_out_too_late/

.

Wow! Well I'm all teared up now! My heart aches for this women. When I think about the awful things that were said and done to us before and during our wedding, I feel very fortunate that I had the bishop I did at the time. Because the grief I was getting from many of my family members and several "friends" was very overwhelming at times. Had it not been for the support of a select few that encouraged me and celebrated with me I might have given in and made a similar decision as this woman. Guilt is a very powerful manipulation tool and unfortunately it is used all to often within the church. I truly hope this woman's heart is able to find peace.



On another note......Corvo I completely understand the fact that you have to be there to get your diploma that you've worked so hard for and are almost finished, but GOOD LORD!!!!!!

I do have to commend you though for keeping your wits about you and not jumping into the echo chamber. I imagine you must feel extremely trapped. The good news is that once you have your diploma you are free to leave! I tend to agree with what was said above about leaving the Idaho/Utah area for a while. You don't have to leave it forever if you don't want to but it is wonderful to be able to get your bearings and fresh start back in an area where no one has any religious/life expectations of you. You only have the ones you set for yourself. It's a great way to renew yourself and gain a new perspective on life. I speak from experience. It really was one of the best decisions I ever made and I feel like I'm a better person because of it. Hang in there!

 

[CorvoSol]

He'd have to be on the side against the excessive force being used by a government entity. Given how he views government intrusion as Satan's plan, there's no other way to argue without him being a feeble minded hypocrite

Nope!

He's on the side that goes like this:

Boy howdy ain't it just a shame what's going on in Missouri, guys? See, it's not about race guys, it's about poverty and education. When people are poor they don't get educated and that's what makes them crimnuls. Let's promptly ignore that that poverty is by and large related to race!

Cuz I got another point, class: when the cops go away some folks go burnin' buildings and stealing TVs. I WOULD NEVER DO THAT. And I choose to ignore that the vast majority of people down there didn't and further to not consider that I would never do that because I have never known systemic poverty on such a scale in my life! No, instead I will insist, just as I did with porn, that I am four million percent invincible against such attacks.

You see guys? It's not about race. It's about how you act when the cops go away!

On another note......Corvo I completely understand the fact that you have to be there to get your diploma that you've worked so hard for and are almost finished, but GOOD LORD!!!!!!

I do have to commend you though for keeping your wits about you and not jumping into the echo chamber. I imagine you must feel extremely trapped. The good news is that once you have your diploma you are free to leave! I tend to agree with what was said above about leaving the Idaho/Utah area for a while. You don't have to leave it forever if you don't want to but it is wonderful to be able to get your bearings and fresh start back in an area where no one has any religious/life expectations of you. You only have the ones you set for yourself. It's a great way to renew yourself and gain a new perspective on life. I speak from experience. It really was one of the best decisions I ever made and I feel like I'm a better person because of it. Hang in there!

Well, for starters I am leaving. I got my e-mail today from the company: I'm teaching English in the Jiangsu province of China next Semester! High schoolers no less!

But right now I'm just sort of trying to make peace with this place. I don't want to spend my life ashamed and disappointed in where I went to college, just because one semester I had to look everything that was truly evil in this place dead on in the face. I want to find some happiness with regards to my time here. I mean, I came here believing that there was a reason for it. I still don't know what that reason is, but I want to hope it wasn't just so I could see the worst of the worst in their smugness.

It's pretty fucking hard to ignore the 20 questions on the final about invading my sex life, though.

See, I don't know where I'm at, I guess. As far as the big doctrines go, I'm still solid, you know? I'm not shaken in my testimony of the cosmology, so to speak.

But I confess I struggle not simply with the minutia's desire to control my every waking action, but also with the utter lack of ability to speak about it. It's hard not to find myself angry when every complaint is met with either: "This is the will of God" or "But you signed away your right to complain when you signed the Honor Code." I think I could handle the stuff that bothers me a lot better if every time I expressed the fact that it bothered me I didn't have to deal with the anguish of being accused of being a faithless sinner.

I don't want to be the one breaking faith, but every time I have a concern, rather than address it I'm told I'm breaking the faith. Outside of my ward, which is fortunately a very welcoming atmosphere this semester, I feel like very little is being done by the School to actually build me up as a Member. There's a lot I feel is meant to tear me down, though.

 

[Fathead]

Here's my advice about rexburg. Don't ever go back.

 

[CorvoSol]

Here's my advice about rexburg. Don't ever go back.

After I leave for my internship I don't really intend to return here for a good long time. Which is a little sad, I guess. This is the setting for some of my favorite stories as a child (my grandpa used to get into no small amount of trouble here back in his day) and I have family living as near to it as Pocatello and Sugar City. That said, I still don't intend to come back for a good while.

 

[ronito]

My pa always said that if a man called fathead tells you to never go back to a place you never go back to it. Seems like good advice.

 

[Fathead]

The only exception. You can drive through it on the way to Yellowstone. But don't stop.

 

[CorvoSol]

Town's actually been growing like crazy lately. It's the weirdest thing. They've been building a buttload of apartment buildings lately. Nice looking ones, too. Either the Church is planning on some major expansion of student enrollment or the Rexburg housing market's about to pop.

 

[CorvoSol]

Then shout hosannas to his name,
Corvo never has to take Family Foundations again!

 

[ronito]

Aw man, I was enjoying Corvo's yougottabekiddingme adventure.

 

[ronito]

Welp,
It looks like Dehlin's actually on the way out this time, most likely.

 

[Fathead]

No image

 

[ronito]

No image

Really?

It's a post from Dehlin saying:
"I've been informed that my excommunication is imminent...that the stake president just needed to make it look like he gave me a chance (which wasn't the case in June) and that he also wanted to wait until after the holiday break.Just an FYI."

I don't know how I feel about it. On one hand, I totally understand that you can't go around excommunicating people like Kelly, and Waterman, etc and leave Dehlin behind, he's as "guilty" as they are. But, at the same time, Dehlin was the leader of the "stay anyway" movement that encouraged/encourages many doubts to stay in the church despite their misgivings. If they church excommunicates him, many will take it to mean that that is no place for them in the church. If the guy who spearheaded the movement for liberal mormons and doubting mormons to stay gets kicked out for being too liberal and too doubting, what message does that convey to liberal and doubting mormons?

 

[Doodis]

Really?

It's a post from Dehlin saying:
"I've been informed that my excommunication is imminent...that the stake president just needed to make it look like he gave me a chance (which wasn't the case in June) and that he also wanted to wait until after the holiday break.Just an FYI."

I don't know how I feel about it. On one hand, I totally understand that you can't go around excommunicating people like Kelly, and Waterman, etc and leave Dehlin behind, he's as "guilty" as they are. But, at the same time, Dehlin was the leader of the "stay anyway" movement that encouraged/encourages many doubts to stay in the church despite their misgivings. If they church excommunicates him, many will take it to mean that that is no place for them in the church. If the guy who spearheaded the movement for liberal mormons and doubting mormons to stay gets kicked out for being too liberal and too doubting, what message does that convey to liberal and doubting mormons?

If he's exed, I will seriously consider resigning officially. I was almost ready back when they were threatening him this summer.

 

[mik]

You'll be astonished at how much better you feel when you do. I promise.

 

[Furyous]

*looks around and notices everyone's going through it self included*

I'm kind of struggling a bit with all of this. Somehow, I alienated a good chunk of people in all three singles' wards thanks to a previous online altercation mentioned in this post. Now I see why people leave. Being a convert to the church that did not grow up in this environment takes more effort than I'll ever admit. On one hand, I'm constantly reminded that I'll never be pure to an extent because I'm not nearly as extreme as other church members. On another hand, the church has its good points but finding a group of members that don't have a quick rebuke for everything they were not raised with is hard.

Maybe church members in other places across the country act differently but right now I don't see it. If I had to bet, I'd say that maybe I'll last three more years in the church. Don't even get me started on life as a single male that abhors marriage. One of my convert friends who got married in the church scarred me from the marriage aspect over the long-term due to arguing over everything.

I want to stick around but this is very hard without the support of people that can empathize with me somewhat. Leaving the church means turning my back on a lot of people and going it alone again which is very scary because this world is a cold place.

 

[ronito]

*looks around and notices everyone's going through it self included*

I'm kind of struggling a bit with all of this. Somehow, I alienated a good chunk of people in all three singles' wards thanks to a previous online altercation mentioned in this post. Now I see why people leave. Being a convert to the church that did not grow up in this environment takes more effort than I'll ever admit. On one hand, I'm constantly reminded that I'll never be pure to an extent because I'm not nearly as extreme as other church members. On another hand, the church has its good points but finding a group of members that don't have a quick rebuke for everything they were not raised with is hard.

Maybe church members in other places across the country act differently but right now I don't see it. If I had to bet, I'd say that maybe I'll last three more years in the church. Don't even get me started on life as a single male that abhors marriage. One of my convert friends who got married in the church scarred me from the marriage aspect over the long-term due to arguing over everything.

I want to stick around but this is very hard without the support of people that can empathize with me somewhat. Leaving the church means turning my back on a lot of people and going it alone again which is very scary because this world is a cold place.

I'll never forget when a bishop said only partially joking that the church was true everywhere outside of the mormon corridor. I sorta get what was saying. I've said it at least a dozen times here that the church culture is downright toxic, especially to unmarried people in our generation. Thing is people call the "Morridor" the "bubble" but it's very true. People there just don't have a good grasp of what it's like to not be mormon. That sex before marriage happens all the time and not having sex before marriage is generally not only considered strange, but further, unwise. Or that having a drink doesn't make you an alcoholic and such. I know the whole line of "the gospel is perfect but the church isn't." But here's the thing with this argument, it's sorta like when they say that the church isn't anti-gay and has nothing to do with gay bullying. And while technically true, it is only that, technically true. If you several talks every few months and at conference talking about how the church is under attack and how gays are a threat to the goodness of society is under attack by the gays, then is it at all surprising that some people will hear that and take it that gays should be shunned? Sorta the same thing here. When you keep telling people stuff like not getting married quickly is bad and hint that people don't get married are being selfish and part of world (which is your enemy by the way), is it then surprising that unmarried young people feel alienated? When you make the sole point/goal of adulthood being married and having children is it surprising that umarried young adults are infantilized? When the only time you talk about alcohol/porn is to mention about how it destroys families, lives and eternal salvation, is it surprising then to see that the membership treats people who have any experience with either as broken? It's sorta akin to me telling my kids all these blonde jokes and about how blondes are dumb and then they get caught calling a blonde girl dumb at school and then being like "How could you do that?! It's not my fault." yeah, technically not, but I'm also not blameless. Like I've said before, when I stopped making excuses for the church I found that I had been doing it all the time. It's sad, because it's not supposed to be.

I remember one of my professors saying that the biggest threat to mormonism wasn't the outside world but the church turning into the old pharisees of old (of course he went on to give speeches/write material that could only be described as Pharisaical, but that's beside the point). His point is that there has never been a religion that has a strict set of rules that didn't end up being more about the rules than the teachings of the religion. And the church is nothing, if not based on rules. And this can make it really hard for people who love the gospel but hate the rules/culture that springs up around the rules. To me, I'd say you don't need the church to have the gospel but that's just me.

Hang in there man and be true to what's important to you, whether that be in the church or without the church. But, out of curiosity, why 3 years? That seems an oddly specific time limit.

 

[CorvoSol]

Aw man, I was enjoying Corvo's yougottabekiddingme adventure.

TWENTY DAYS.

TWENTY MORE DAYS IN REXBURG AND THEN I AM FREE FROM ITS CLAWS.

 

[ronito]

TWENTY DAYS.

TWENTY MORE DAYS IN REXBURG AND THEN I AM FREE FROM ITS CLAWS.

How does that work? 20 days? That's not close to enough for a semester, what exactly you got left?

 

[Furyous]

I'll never forget when a bishop said only partially joking that the church was true everywhere outside of the mormon corridor. I sorta get what was saying. I've said it at least a dozen times here that the church culture is downright toxic, especially to unmarried people in our generation. Thing is people call the "Morridor" the "bubble" but it's very true. People there just don't have a good grasp of what it's like to not be mormon. That sex before marriage happens all the time and not having sex before marriage is generally not only considered strange, but further, unwise. Or that having a drink doesn't make you an alcoholic and such. I know the whole line of "the gospel is perfect but the church isn't." But here's the thing with this argument, it's sorta like when they say that the church isn't anti-gay and has nothing to do with gay bullying. And while technically true, it is only that, technically true. If you several talks every few months and at conference talking about how the church is under attack and how gays are a threat to the goodness of society is under attack by the gays, then is it at all surprising that some people will hear that and take it that gays should be shunned? Sorta the same thing here. When you keep telling people stuff like not getting married quickly is bad and hint that people don't get married are being selfish and part of world (which is your enemy by the way), is it then surprising that unmarried young people feel alienated? When you make the sole point/goal of adulthood being married and having children is it surprising that umarried young adults are infantilized? When the only time you talk about alcohol/porn is to mention about how it destroys families, lives and eternal salvation, is it surprising then to see that the membership treats people who have any experience with either as broken? It's sorta akin to me telling my kids all these blonde jokes and about how blondes are dumb and then they get caught calling a blonde girl dumb at school and then being like "How could you do that?! It's not my fault." yeah, technically not, but I'm also not blameless. Like I've said before, when I stopped making excuses for the church I found that I had been doing it all the time. It's sad, because it's not supposed to be.

I remember one of my professors saying that the biggest threat to mormonism wasn't the outside world but the church turning into the old pharisees of old (of course he went on to give speeches/write material that could only be described as Pharisaical, but that's beside the point). His point is that there has never been a religion that has a strict set of rules that didn't end up being more about the rules than the teachings of the religion. And the church is nothing, if not based on rules. And this can make it really hard for people who love the gospel but hate the rules/culture that springs up around the rules. To me, I'd say you don't need the church to have the gospel but that's just me.

Hang in there man and be true to what's important to you, whether that be in the church or without the church. But, out of curiosity, why 3 years? That seems an oddly specific time limit.

I'm getting up there in years way past the point where church members get married. Honestly, from my 11 years of interactions with church members, I'll go out on a limb and say marriage age is within three years of graduating from college at the latest. The only reason I'm not in a married ward right now is I'd quit completely coming to church and because it's been four and a half years since my baptism. Basically, I don't want to attend the married wards and all but quit on marriage but marriage isn't something I should rush. Sisters have this idealistic manner in which their life should go and that's the way it will happen. There's nothing wrong with that but I can't get married after two FHEs because culture tells me I should. Maybe I'm overthinking things as a someone that wasn't raised in the church. The three window gives me enough time to go out find a career and live somewhere without such a strong church influence.

I hope the guy living in Rexburg is doing okay. The two families I know living there, tell me it's okay but they have families. I'd struggle something fierce in church community with no worldly influence to provide balance to the culture. Dude should travel north and stop in Pullman or another area on the border.

 

[CorvoSol]

How does that work? 20 days? That's not close to enough for a semester, what exactly you got left?

So I'm here until the 23rd of January. Then I'll spend a month at home, then I begin my internship the 19th of February and start teaching in China the 2nd of March.

Basically I had to come back here to do a project that required my physical presence now, so that my professor could excuse me from actually being physically in class the rest of the semester.

Technically I'm finishing my time at BYUI in China.

I'm actually feeling a lot better since finishing Family Foundations and leaving the area to get some breath in me. Rexburg gets under my skin, but in honesty part of that is that my skin has admittedly never been all that thick to begin with. I'd be lying if I didn't say that this place has seriously challenged my faith at times, but I think I should also note that there are times here that have been great contributions to it as well. My early experiences in town and at school were great for that. Science classes helped me to reconcile my beliefs and scientific knowledge fairly well, and where not, they allowed me to accept that its not a sin for Church members to have differing views on a range of topics. I took a class last semester that was all about being authentic to oneself, and that class was really great.

In fact, I really held on to the things that teacher said because she pointed out that we place too much emphasis on being obedient and not enough on being happy, even though happiness is our entire raison d'etre here. It wasn't like a call for open rebellion so much as a reminder that we ought to really think about why we are or are not happy.

I had an English class early on where the Professor sat down and spoke with us and leveled with us on a number of topics that were previously taboo in my experience as a Church member in America, from sex to the ban on blacks holding the Priesthood. I've had professors who have spoken as frankly as the rules permit about their own distaste for aspects of our culture and the toxicity of the Honor Code.

There's a lot wrong with BYU-Idaho. A lot. Like a whole, whole fucking lot. But not all of it is wrong. It's sort of that thing Luke said about Vader, y'know? The whole "There's good in him, too." The problem, I feel, is that the culture is structured in such a way as to prevent us from talking about it openly, freely, or without fear. And I mean, even that has some good reasons to it. It doesn't do to spend all our time haranguing and complaining and bemoaning the fate God has cast upon us, but at the same time it prevents us from being able to actually talk about our sins, our trials, our struggles in a sincere, human, non-sanitized way.

For instance, we're doing Senior Projects and a guy in my class wants to study the Rexburg Underground. Stuff like the student drug trade and the student sex life, but these things can't be studied because the school requires you to fill out a form before performing research on people, and that form is never going to get approved. So there won't be any study of these things, and therefore no understanding of them and therefore no real means of helping them.

I believe firmly in the power of the Gospel, of Church teachings, to heal people and put them on and guide them through the path to Christ. What upsets me is how sparingly we seem to be willing to employ this miraculous power in our own heartland.

 

[ronito]

I don't know why corvo, but your story reminded me of this one time when BYU made Playboy's hottest campuses list and they were looking for girls to pose in their pictorial and the honor code sent a letter to everyone saying that anyone even talking to playboy would be expelled and I knew a girl in the art department (of course) that was like "I'd totally pose for playboy." and I had to find a way to politely say, "Yes, but they wouldn't take you."

dunno why, but, there you are.

Also, you'll be keeping in touch from China right?

 

[CorvoSol]

I don't know why corvo, but your story reminded me of this one time when BYU made Playboy's hottest campuses list and they were looking for girls to pose in their pictorial and the honor code sent a letter to everyone saying that anyone even talking to playboy would be expelled and I knew a girl in the art department (of course) that was like "I'd totally pose for playboy." and I had to find a way to politely say, "Yes, but they wouldn't take you."

dunno why, but, there you are.

Also, you'll be keeping in touch from China right?

Lol.

I'll be endeavoring to stay in touch while I'm in China, but the thing is it's China and their internet is purportedly 1)Shitty and 2)Ultra-Censored. I'm researching VPNs at the moment to alleviate problem #2, but still.

 

[Thaedolus]

Anyone following this Millennial Mormons drama? I've always thought this Blake kid was an arrogant asshole and his sarcastic bullshit is very off-putting, but I didn't know he would be such a dishonest prick who would blackmail his partner. He and his dad (lol) keep saying "there are two sides to every story, don't be so quick to judge!" yet the facebook message MM posted was passive aggressive, underhanded, and self-righteous to the max. Holy shit what a guy.

 

[CorvoSol]

Naw, but the big story around school is an alum who got charged for fraud. Dude stole a bunch of money from the school. Like, he was on probationary status at school, but he worked at the office of records and registration, so he changed his status to good. He used his falsified straight a transcript to award himself tuition money.

Not exactly a huge story but this kinda thing circulates in town.

 

[Yoritomo]

Whoa. Wife was opposed to having our names removed up until yesterday. John Dehlin potentially getting exed has really affected her though. She now wants out completely.

 

[ronito]

Anyone following this Millennial Mormons drama? I've always thought this Blake kid was an arrogant asshole and his sarcastic bullshit is very off-putting, but I didn't know he would be such a dishonest prick who would blackmail his partner. He and his dad (lol) keep saying "there are two sides to every story, don't be so quick to judge!" yet the facebook message MM posted was passive aggressive, underhanded, and self-righteous to the max. Holy shit what a guy.

I've heard some grumblings about this. What exactly is it?

Whoa. Wife was opposed to having our names removed up until yesterday. John Dehlin potentially getting exed has really affected her though. She now wants out completely.

Yeah, this is unsurprising. By exing him the church is sending a message to all the doubters that there's no place for them.

 

[Thaedolus]

So MM is this attempt to be edgy satire, but is pretty clickbait-y and obnoxious. It was started by Blake Oakey and Samantha something or other. Sam is from the UK and is attending school at BYUI or somewhere. Essentially she and Blake were on a verbal agreement to split ownership of MM 50/50, but some shit went down where he decided to lock her out and took complete control. She made a post on her personal blog which showed him threatening to report her to BYU for violating terms of her visa, threatening her with lawyers for her status, etc. Kind of early 20's sort of drama, but she went public with it because she's a student here who's getting bullied by this cunt and his dad.

Blake and his dad keep saying that people are judging based on one side of the story and playing victim the victim and whining about how wrong it is while making passive aggressive and holier than thou statements. It's really pathetic.

Anyway, there was another blog post about this guy's experience with Blake a while back. I've thought for a while that his writing made a good case that he was a cunt, but his actions here are just amazing. Blackmail, bus rolling, refusing to take any responsibility, deleting every negative comment on facebook, etc. I think he also got kicked out of BYUI, but I'm not sure if it was related to his ethical issues or if it has to do with him being gay (or...sorry, "struggling with same sex attraction")

His dad keeps making the case that this should never have been made public and this is their issue to work out privately, but when one party holds all the cards and is bullying the other into submission while stealing her work, fuck that. She had to go public and now the genie can't be put back in the bottle. Anyway, I think MM is going to fade away into irrelevance now, and thank glob for that. The stupid headlines he trolled with were getting annoying.

EDIT

@MMormons on twitter blocked me after being critical of them hahahahhaaaaa

EDIT 2:

Looks like they've reconciled

 

[CorvoSol]

I don't even know what this Dehlin thing is about, other than that it's trending on Facebook.

But let's table bad news for a minute and focus on the good:

THIS TIME NEXT WEEK I AM OUT OF REXBURG.

And in true Rexburg fashion, I will celebrate this moment by singing a Disney song that is tangentially related if you really think about it.

ALL THOSE DAYS, WATCHING FROM THE WINDOWS

ALL THOSE YEARS, OUTSIDE LOOKING IN

ALL THAT TIME, NEVER EVEN KNOWING, JUST HOW BLIND I'VE BEEN

No but seriously 1 week and I am free from this place.

 

[CorvoSol]

So my roommate interned for the White House this Summer, right? School paper did an article on it, and tonight my roommate got hate e-mail. "How does it feel to work for the worst President in American history? He's a pig and you're a pig. Seriously, Fuck you." and then our personal favorite line of the e-mail: you give Mormons a bad name.

bwahahahaha. What even is the mental gymnastics it takes to go from calling someone a pig to saying they give Mormons a bad name?

 

[Fathead]

Throw a snowball on the way out for me.

 

[CorvoSol]

Throw a snowball on the way out for me.

I'm not shaving. I mean, I might because I have to record video for a single class, but the idea at present is to start me Freedom Beard now.

 

[ronito]

So my roommate interned for the White House this Summer, right? School paper did an article on it, and tonight my roommate got hate e-mail. "How does it feel to work for the worst President in American history? He's a pig and you're a pig. Seriously, Fuck you." and then our personal favorite line of the e-mail: you give Mormons a bad name.

bwahahahaha. What even is the mental gymnastics it takes to go from calling someone a pig to saying they give Mormons a bad name?

Does that guy post on my wife's facebook? Cause I bet he's on my wife's facebook.

 

[CorvoSol]

Does that guy post on my wife's facebook? Cause I bet he's on my wife's facebook.

Get this: Whoever it was, they took the time to create an e-mail address and type a title "Fuck You" for this thing.

Like person was very, very chafed. We think that the SOTU speech triggered it (in combination w/roommate being in school newspape)

 

[Fathead]

I'm not shaving. I mean, I might because I have to record video for a single class, but the idea at present is to start me Freedom Beard now.

Hellfire and damnation surely await you.

 

[CorvoSol]

Hellfire and damnation surely await you.

sounds a lot nicer than freeze your balls off Idaho, so I'm game.

 

[Fathead]

sounds a lot nicer than freeze your balls off Idaho, so I'm game.

I don't miss the cold

 

[CorvoSol]

TWELVE HOURS TILL FREEDOM PEOPLE

 

[Thaedolus]

New Brother Jake video and some news conference at 10AM announced this morning...sound like one of the 15 may have passed, but rumors are rumors so take it with a sizable grain of salt.

Ohh, competing rumor is separation of civil marriage from temple marriage ceremony. That's been speculated for a while due to the coming genderless dystopia.

EDIT again:

Religious freedom?

Le sigh, persecution complex

 

[CorvoSol]

New Brother Jake video and some news conference at 10AM announced this morning...sound like one of the 15 may have passed, but rumors are rumors so take it with a sizable grain of salt.

Ohh, competing rumor is separation of civil marriage from temple marriage ceremony. That's been speculated for a while due to the coming genderless dystopia.

EDIT again:

Religious freedom?

Le sigh, persecution complex

In Brazil, at least, the Temple marriage ceremony and civil marriage are completely separate already. Pretty sure it's that way in many countries.

 

[Thaedolus]

In Brazil, at least, the Temple marriage ceremony and civil marriage are completely separate already. Pretty sure it's that way in many countries.

It is, because those countries don't recognize the temple ceremony as an official wedding ceremony...or something like that. In fact, I think the US is the exception, not the rule, in this regard.

So the press conference was disappointing and encouraging at the same time. On the one hand, I do appreciate some of the 15 standing up and supporting anti-discrimination laws for LGBT, but on the other hand...it was basically conditioned on their desire to want their freedom of expression and religion, while being free from the consequences of said speech and religious discrimination. It seemed very two faced to me.

 

[Laurentius]

Would have been nice if the press conference was to announce a change in the civil/temple marriage policies in the US. The guilt I've seen people put through because they decided to have a civil marriage first is just awful. ("What if one of you dies in the year you have to wait? You'll never be sealed in eternity.")

 

[ronito]

Wife and I in Disneyland. We dun curr!!!!

 

[Thaedolus]

Would have been nice if the press conference was to announce a change in the civil/temple marriage policies in the US. The guilt I've seen people put through because they decided to have a civil marriage first is just awful. ("What if one of you dies in the year you have to wait? You'll never be sealed in eternity.")

...proxy sealing? I agree that the guilt and shame of couples who get married civilly is ridiculous, but there is a mechanism for that. My grandmother was proxy sealed to my grandfather after he passed away.