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[Sickboy007]

It's a shame this crap still happens.

Luckily it's not too popular and only a few countries think this way. Hell I think the people in the countries don't support it. Shitty governments strike again.

Probably the majority of people in big cities oppose this, but most arab countries don't have a very effective public opinion. And religion certainly isn't a force of change in these matters.

I don't understand why she killed herself instead of killing the guy????

Feelings of powerlessness? Or maybe she wanted to shame him.
Or, she was feeling guilty. Fucked up but very possible.

 

[Forsythia]

This is disgusting. And the bloody rapist lives on happily ever after, probably going to rape another underage girl. Fucking sick.

 

[Enco]

But the Internet told me Muslim women who are raped are sentenced to death. Now it's telling me they are also forced to marry their rapist. Interesting. It's only a matter of time before it's revealed the mothers are forced to have an abortion before being made to eat the foetus and are only then killed.



I agree, Deuteronomy only gives sentences to adultery/fornication, I don't know why so many interpret it to mean rape. Verses 25-26 clear this up, "But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter".

Distinctively, the term "forced" is used here in contrast to the other verses that discuss adultery.

Don't get religion mixed up with this.

This is 100% culture and nothing more.

I'm not one to call the opinion of others wrong but this culture is completely wrong.

edit: I agree Sickboy. It's a shame really. If only the governments listened to people

 

[esai]

this is horrible. some things need to change.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Sounds fair to me. Rape is worse than murder. All rapists should be executed.

No, that's absurd.

Must be reassuring for someone who has been raped and worked through it and, as someone already mentioned, lead healthy, productive lives, to hear that he or she would be better of dead.

Not going to argue with you regarding if it's worse than murder or not, just that what you say not only hurts those who worked through it, but their relatives and friends.

I think how a lot of people conceive the effects of rape is actually harmful because it becomes prescriptive, in a way, rather than just being a description of a possible outcome. Yeah, rape is fucking horrible and it's really hard to get over, but it isn't helpful to say that you're life is going to suck now because it happened to you. That's only going to lead to a negative outcome.

edit: btw, I'm really glad people are hopping off of the moral relativity bandwagon.

 

[Seeds]

It is for some of them, and that's enough to consider it worse than murder for me.

Must be reassuring for someone who has been raped and worked through it and, as someone already mentioned, lead healthy, productive lives, to hear that he or she would be better of dead.

Not going to argue with you regarding if it's worse than murder or not, just that what you say not only hurts those who worked through it, but their relatives and friends.

 

[Aurongel]

Absolutely awful, everything about it.

 

[CornBurrito]

I don't understand why she killed herself instead of killing the guy????

Woah you mean people who are in enough emotional despair to kill themselves aren't thinking rationally?! What a shocker!

Maybe she felt that killing the guy wouldn't magically reverse what he had done to her.

It is for some of them, and that's enough to consider it worse than murder for me.

So basically rape is worse, because it can lead to "living dead" in some situations?

Murder always ends in death, both emotionally and physically. Rape does not end in physical death, and it does not end in emotional death in 100% of cases.

Rape is not worse than murder.

 

[Wiseblade]

That law is insane. What do they expect to happen when you make a woman marry her rapist?

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

Strange, Moroccan laws state that girls must be 18 in order to marry (and there's no way around it, you would have to wait until you're of age). Well, theorically.


It pains me to still see those things happen, but Morrocan countryside is a really really scary place. As in "back to the 1600", ha ha. I could go on for hours about what is wrong in this country.

Spoiler

I remember my father telling me "If you ever have an car accident in the countryside and your car is still going, don't stop, just go to the nearest police barrack in order to clean things up, if you don't want to get killed", ha ha

 

[Sickboy007]

No, that's absurd.



I think how a lot of people conceive the effects of rape is actually harmful because it becomes prescriptive, in a way, rather than just being a description of a possible outcome. Yeah, rape is fucking horrible and it's really hard to get over, but it isn't helpful to say that you're life is going to suck now because it happened to you. That's only going to lead to a negative outcome.

edit: btw, I'm really glad people are hopping off of the moral relativity bandwagon.

I think there's a great misunderstanding over what moral relativism is. You can be absolutely opposed to something like this, and at the same time argue over the existence of absolute truths.

 

[3N16MA]

Moroccan penal code exempts the rapist from punishment if he agrees to marry his victim, so it's a bit more than just a rural tradition.



Otherwise she's be stoned to death.

Wow I just spotted the hottest woman I have ever seen but she would never go for me. I know, I will rape her and then she will have to marry me!

So sad.

 

[Hieberrr]

Forced wedding proposal?

Bravo! Hahaha

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Sounds more like a Christian Law.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24: 'If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.'

The fuck?

Are you trying to spread lies about Christianity, or are you just completely ignorant of it?

That's an ancient Judaic law, you are quoting. It has no more to do with "Christian Law" than the banning of eating "unclean foods." (The fact that for many Christians, eating ham at Easter is a tradition should tell you how far that goes.)

Christians were told by Jesus and the Apostles to be free of the old laws. That rather than being ruled by the old laws, Christians should be ruled by the faithful heart. That following the old law was a fool's errand, and that the old law was a curse on the people. That no foods were unclean, ect. ect. ect. Much of the New Testament's Book of Galatians is a rebuke to people who wanted to hand on to the old laws, he called their desire to cling to the law as a "carnal desire."

The New Testament actually does call the law a curse. It also compares it to a harsh taskmaster or teacher that is no longer needed. It really doesn't get any more plain than that.

Here's a few passages:

Mark 7:19
Colossians 2:16-17
Galatians 3:1-3
Galatians 3:10-13
Romans 6:14
Romans 8:4
Galatians 3:23
Galatians 4:21-31

 

[BobsRevenge]

I think there's a great misunderstanding over what moral relativity is. You can be absolutely opposed to something like this, and at the same time argue over the existence of absolute truths.

Well, what abstract notions that people pack into the phrase is pretty variable. Obviously, strictly speaking, morality is merely a construct to aid in a society's health that has a biological and environmental basis. You can measure how healthy a set of moral principles are by looking at the society. These moral standards are obviously holding these people back, because they seem to have such a hard time with progress.

It's a really loose phrase at this point, and it's hard to really nail down what people are talking about when it's used instead of presenting an opinion more closely. So I do agree that it's problematic.

 

[speculawyer]

But the Internet told me Muslim women who are raped are sentenced to death. Now it's telling me they are also forced to marry their rapist. Interesting. It's only a matter of time before it's revealed the mothers are forced to have an abortion before being made to eat the foetus and are only then killed.

But seriously, to my understanding marriage (or a dowry) is a demand made of the male - not the woman. This of course assumes there is conclusive proof she was raped (an issue that has gone over the head of most when it comes to stories of the woman being the one sentenced rather than the male), and if so the hadd (religious) punishment would be given to the male and she would be vindicated and deemed innocent. For two people to marry, generally speaking, they both have to give their consent (which again is something that conflicts with the belief of forced arranged marriages being inherent). It makes no sense to (1) impose a punishment on the woman you've already deemed innocent and then (2) attempt to impose a marriage on her when knowing a non-consensual one is invalid anyway.

Do you have anything solid that no such law exists in Morocco? I really don't want to believe what that article says about that legal move . . . but I have no knowledge that proves it wrong.

 

[Hawkian]

I spent a good deal of this morning trying to remind myself of humanity's enormous capacity for belevolence; I wish I did not know that this occurred

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

You kidding me?

That is the proper course of action as described in the Koran. They even give the same reasoning.

Da fuq are you talking about? according to the bible shouldn't the man be punished? *sigh*

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

Do you have anything solid that no such law exists in Morocco? I really don't want to believe what that article says about that legal move . . . but I have no knowledge that proves it wrong.

Moroccan laws are a clusterfuck trying to tie in Islamic laws and French-inspired laws that have been there since 1953, there are a lot of contradictions and non-amended articles that stayed. I wouldn't be surprised if both the rule in the article and more sensible laws coexisted.


That said the judge is still an inhumane idiot and should be severly punished alongside the rapist.

 

[DarkKyo]

If I was that girl I would have run away and never look back. Just get the fuck out of that country.

 

[BobsRevenge]

I spent a good deal of this morning trying to remind myself of humanity's enormous capacity for belevolence; I wish I did not know that this occurred

Horrible shit is happening constantly in innumerable ways. That should just be assumed. We grew out of a strange process that is, in some sense, in rebellion with entropy, and we did it purely by chance. Of course things are going to be fucked up. But we're right at the beginning, historically speaking, of shit getting way better really fast, it seems.

The amount of good shit happening is unprecedented. The amount of bad shit happening should actually be expected.

If I was that girl I would have run away and never look back. Just get the fuck out of that country.

No, you would've done the exact same thing. You know, free will being an illusion and all.

 

[Buxaroo]

Pathetic on every level that this is common place in the 21st century. Religion and conservatism, they never lead to anything good, it always leads to stupidity and ignorance in everything.

Religion and conservative tradition: the last refuge of mentally challenged who need sexually repressed, desert dwelling schizophrenics to tell them how to live. After the last ice age receded and turned their precious fertile crescent into a desert during the last bronze age, they didn't understand why so they created myths on why it happened and they blame either knowledge or women, women because the first farmers might have been them so naturally they blame them for using knowledge to farm, and when their farms produce no more and they are starving, and their land turns to desert, they scapegoat. And women have been paying the price ever since this myth has taken root. Pathetic on every level, and don't you dare say christianity isn't like this, it was only 200 years ago people were being burned at the stake for stupid shit. It was only through the Enlightenment and Reason that we see the relatively benign religion of today, but one only has to look at some of the politically conservative right's recent manufactured morale outrage to see that they are not to far from receding back into the bronze age.

 

[Dead Man]

I just don't have the words. Fucking hell.

 

[godnorazi]

Wow. Poor girl. Cant even imagine what her parents are going through. This is the kind of shit that happens when you let religion influence government.

its not just 3rd world countries, i see it every day here in america

 

[BobsRevenge]

its not just 3rd world countries, i see it every day here in america

Parts of America are, functionally, third world countries.

 

[mxgt]

You stay classy now, Morocco

 

[jaxword]

Galatians 4:21-31

28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.
30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”
31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.


Kind of an abstract passage in its language, I guess.

"Make sure you know the difference between kids of your slave woman versus the free women and then get rid of the slave woman" is...not really relevant to this discussion, though.

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

I did a little research and this is what the Penal Code says, the article 475 says the statutory rape is punished by law, but if the minor is married to the rapist, he/she cannot be sued until the marriage is cancelled by the competent authorities.
Article 486 says that rape IS punished of 5 to 10 years of jail, and 10 to 20 years of jail if done on a minor.

Contradictions, yay.

Can't wait for the new constitution and laws to come out.

You stay classy now, Morocco

First country to recognize the United States of America as a country, now THAT's classy !

Spoiler

I kid, don't killme

 

[Buxaroo]

For you self-appointed Christians who take umbrage over my comparison of you with Islam:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29: "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife."

No. Difference. At. All. With.What.This.Judge.Has.Ruled.

 

[Nizz]

Wow, this is terrible. Poor girl. Wish she could have reached out to someone.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Disgusting.

 

[pyros]

The pain she must have gone through, can't imagine, may you find peace wherever you are

 

[astroturfing]

nice, a barbarian judge in the 21st century. he should be in a mental institution for even considering such a solution.

 

[CornBurrito]

Don't get religion mixed up with this.

This is 100% culture and nothing more.

Religion helps to shape culture. Religion is a facet of culture. So if this is 100% culture, then it does partially have to do with religion.

 

[Gr1mLock]

its not just 3rd world countries, i see it every day here in america

So do I. Its called 'republicans'.

 

[LowEndTorque]

Backwards ass culture justice system.

fixed.

I've never been to Morocco and I don't know much about their culture, but I'm not sure it's fair to make generalizations about the culture of an entire people of tens of millions just based on this. That relies on the assumption that Moroccans generally support and agree with this kind of "justice" because it fits their overall "culture." I'm not ready to accept that assumption.

Nonetheless, it's extremely fucked up and depressing that things like this are still happening in the world in 2012

 

[Sickboy007]

fixed.

I've never been to Morocco and I don't know much about their culture, but I'm not sure it's fair to make generalizations about the culture of an entire people of tens of millions just based on this. That relies on the assumption that Moroccans generally support and agree with this kind of "justice" because it fits their overall "culture." I'm not ready to accept that assumption.

Nonetheless, it's extremely fucked up and depressing that things like this are still happening in the world in 2012

This kind of forced marriage has been a practice in Mediterranean rural communities for centuries, it's definitely part of their culture.

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

This kind of forced marriage has been a practice in Mediterranean rural communities for centuries, it's definitely part of their culture.

That doesn't mean all 33 millions of people who live in the country agree with it.

 

[Deified Data]

Sometimes suicide is a courageous decision.

 

[Sickboy007]

That doesn't mean all 33 millions of people who live in the country agree with it.

Absolutely, that's why i said rural communities. And this:

Probably the majority of people in big cities oppose this, but most arab countries don't have a very effective public opinion. And religion certainly isn't a force of change in these matters.

 

[not psycho]

Rape is not worse than murder.

Rape is a form of torture. Torture can absolutely be worse than murder.

If you are saying you would rather go through any form of torture than die painlessly, you have a very limited imagination (or you have never thought it through, in which case I suggest you continue not thinking it through for the sake of your happiness).

 

[cruets]

can't judge

 

[z0m3le]

You kidding me?

That is the proper course of action as described in the Koran. They even give the same reasoning.

Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

It's in the Bible.

And worse, it's only if he is caught.

 

[CornBurrito]

Rape is a form of torture. Torture can absolutely be worse than murder.

If you are saying you would rather go through any form of torture than die painlessly, you have a very limited imagination (or you have never thought it through, in which case I suggest you continue not thinking it through for the sake of your happiness).

I did not realize most murders were painless!

Also people -can- and have recovered from the trauma of rape. Nobody has magically arisen from the dead after a murder.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I did not realize most murders were painless!

Also people -can- and have recovered from the trauma of rape. Nobody has magically arisen from the dead after a murder.

Jesus has.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Rape is a form of torture. Torture can absolutely be worse than murder.

If you are saying you would rather go through any form of torture than die painlessly, you have a very limited imagination (or you have never thought it through, in which case I suggest you continue not thinking it through for the sake of your happiness).

Damn dude, what a condescending way to present an opinion. You know, humans are incredibly resilient and willful when we're allowed and supported to be. A defeatist attitude isn't helpful.

You can't go up to someone who has been through a bunch of shit like torture and be like, "Well, it's too bad you weren't murdered instead." That's dumb.

 

[CornBurrito]

Damn dude, what a condescending way to present an opinion. You know, humans are incredibly resilient and willful when we're allowed and supported to be. A defeatist attitude isn't helpful.

Madness. Reality is clearly like fiction, where people are so emotionally fragile that growing up without a dad can turn you into the next Hitler.

 

[not psycho]

I did not realize most murders were painless!

Also people -can- and have recovered from the trauma of rape. Nobody has magically arisen from the dead after a murder.

I didn't say rape was always worse than murder. I said rape is torture, and torture can be worse than murder.

Not always. But it can be. "At least you aren't dead" is way too simplistic.

You can't go up to someone who has been through a bunch of shit like torture and be like, "Well, at least you weren't murdered." That's dumb.

Yes, I agree. That's basically what I said.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Yes, I agree. That's basically what I said.

I misphrased it at first, lol. I tried to edit it to what I was trying to communicate fast after I realized it, but I guess I was too slow.

I'm not sure you'd agree anymore.

 

[Seep]

Moroccan penal code exempts a rapist from punishment if he agrees to marry his victim.

The fuck!?