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[TheDuskwalker]

That's part of why it rubs me the wrong way. If they said nothing at all I might of bought the game (and been disappointed by the grinding, lol) but the fact that they state that sexy outfits are gone and they don't care if I'm disappointed pushed me away from pre-ordering.

There's a difference between covering up sexy outfits for a artistic reasons and telling your audience you don't approve of sexy outfits. If NRS said they understand that people like sexy content but they don't want it in this game I would be fine but they instead talked about being more mature and respectful, which implies sexy outfits are immature and disrespectful. I kind of take that as an insult.

I'm fine with the "woke" stuff like Jax's ending. That's new content that's not removing part of what I buy games for. It does not push me away from the game but implying I might not respect women for liking scantily clad outfits is a huge turn-off. I don't play games to be personally judged. Perhaps the interview was played up for Polygon and that's not their actual views (some characters still look sexy) but I won't know that unless they clarify.

I get bad vibes that NRS is judgmental of gamers and wish to dictate what is right and wrong in this industry, which is an issue I saw with Battlefield V among a few others. It could just be how I'm interpreting it, though the interview with Polygon seems quite clear to me.

Your interpretation is right, Ed Boon even took shots at MK9 and the longtime fans in a recent interview with Playboy.

"Yeah, I'm sure that that was also a factor. To be honest, I thought we probably went a bit too far with Mortal Kombat 9, and as the team lead—there were certainly members of the team who wanted to go in that direction, and to be honest, I had influence in dialing it back to where it is now compared to where it ended up being with Mortal Kombat 9. And as I look back, I kind of wish that I had pulled it even further back. Now, granted, we are all clearly happy with how that game turned out, and it's our second-highest-selling one, which is great, but in retrospect, I would have done it differently had we done it today."

"It's pretty much under control. I mean, at the end of the day, they're going be selecting costumes that we designed. I'm sure some of them are more revealing than others, just because of the nature of different costume designs, but we did not go as far as we did with Mortal Kombat 9. And it's interesting, too, because any time there is change with a game that has a really strong following, the initial human knee jerk reaction is—change is bad. This isn't what I remembered, you know? So there's a nostalgia thing that players are looking for, but at the same time, those are the same players who will say, "Oh, this is just more of the same. I'm bored,” if you don't change anything, and so I'm personally a firm believer than when you make multiple sequels of a game, or probably any kind of format of entertainment, you need to offer something new, something different. [That] just makes it more interesting because when presented with something new, it's always a better experience than just repeating the known. "

 

[Jon Neu]

Again, more subterfuges to try and hide their obvious political agenda.

Nobody says that change is bad, what people are mad is at the people in charge becoming SJW puritans and changing the game based on their new found political awakening instead of an artistic choice.

Not wanting sexy outfits because you now "respect women", is not an artistic choice. Is you censoring the game because of your new found political religion.

 

[Spukc]

Omfg the reason the game is ass is because of the slimy as fuck MTX bullshit in a game that they FUCKING DARE to ask 100 dollars for.

It has nothing to do with any sjw crap dumb shitlords trying to force politics into mk11 gtfo xD. I swear it is this dumb outrage culture on both sides.

If yall wanna be mad be mad at the MTX sheit..

 

[nightfly]

Regarding the much more covered up costumes for the women, I never understood why NRS couldn't compromise by having both a bunch of more covered up costumes as well as more sexy ones. Shouldn't that please everyone?

 

[CatCouch]

Your interpretation is right, Ed Boon even took shots at MK9 and the longtime fans in a recent interview with Playboy.

I have a hard time remaining a fan of things the creators act like were mistakes. What about those who cosplay, draw fan art and go to conventions because they liked that? Why invalidate fans (even intentionally)?

I remember a Bioware writer doing something similar with Dragon Age before Inquisition came out. I think he called his own writing sexist and told fans to "get off the goddamn totem pole" in a GDC presentation. It was in 2013 so my memory is a bit hazy.

I don't consider change bad but I do consider the total removal of something fans liked to be questionable and I consider statements implying those fans are immature or disrespectful to be ill-advised. Going after fans, even if it's kind of subtle here, is a worrying trend I've seen in entertainment. It creates division and tension. It's a sense of unease.

I want to feel confident when I support something, not feel unwelcome. Now I can't read MK11 discussions because the character designs are a "fight to the death" issue full of insults. There is so much animosity towards people who like sexy outfits and that animosity is reciprocated.

It's two divided sides of the same community trying to kill the other off in a contest to see who can be the most condescending and passive aggressive. Not a fun community to be in.

Then there's the MTX stuff that ensures I won't even enjoy what is there...

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Regarding the much more covered up costumes for the women, I never understood why NRS couldn't compromise by having both a bunch of more covered up costumes as well as more sexy ones. Shouldn't that please everyone?

Which is funny, since that''s exactly what they did in MKX and I remember seeing a lot of praise for female outfits, from everyone.

I have a hard time remaining a fan of things the creators act like were mistakes. What about those who cosplay, draw fan art and go to conventions because they liked that? Why invalidate fans (even intentionally)?

I remember a Bioware writer doing something similar with Dragon Age before Inquisition came out. I think he called his own writing sexist and told fans to "get off the goddamn totem pole" in a GDC presentation. It was in 2013 so my memory is a bit hazy.

I don't consider change bad but I do consider the total removal of something fans liked to be questionable and I consider statements implying those fans are immature or disrespectful to be ill-advised. Going after fans, even if it's kind of subtle here, is a worrying trend I've seen in entertainment. It creates division and tension. It's a sense of unease.

I want to feel confident when I support something, not feel unwelcome. Now I can't read MK11 discussions because the character designs are a "fight to the death" issue full of insults. There is so much animosity towards people who like sexy outfits and that animosity is reciprocated.

It's two divided sides of the same community trying to kill the other off in a contest to see who can be the most condescending and passive aggressive. Not a fun community to be in.

Then there's the MTX stuff that ensures I won't even enjoy what is there...

That's the irony, they say they're doing it for women, yet guess who love that stuff more than the so called "pervy" guys?


As you can see, Looney totally loves playing as her favorite females as modestly as possible.

 

[CatCouch]

Which is funny, since that''s exactly what they did in MKX and I remember seeing a lot of praise for female outfits, from everyone.


That's the irony, they say they're doing it for women, yet guess who love that stuff more than the so called "pervy" guys?


As you can see, Looney totally loves playing as her favorite females as modestly as possible.

It's a double whammy. The belief that men are pervs for liking sexy content and that women are opposed to it. From my experiences in gaming (and erotic art communities) I can say nothing is further from the truth, lol. Sexy content is not made entirely by men for men, after all.

Some men hate sexy content, some women love it. People have different preferences, different ways of feeling empowered.

Boiling people down to gender groups is the kind of thing I thought would end with the internet age. Weird that all the information in the world being at our fingertips somehow results in less understanding and knowledge of each other. I guess some find it easier to group and label people instead of listen to others.

 

[Screamer-RSA]

Regarding the much more covered up costumes for the women, I never understood why NRS couldn't compromise by having both a bunch of more covered up costumes as well as more sexy ones. Shouldn't that please everyone?

Jip it will, but that is not how these people think. It's their way or nothing. If you are not with them, you are against them. A literal Nazi!

 

[SweetShark]

Mortal Kombat 12 Concept Pics LEAKED!

Spoiler

Both combatants are female

I wouldn't mind a character like this.
A full-armor female Knight sound badass in my book.

The problem is the previous female characters were established they wearing more light clothes I guess.

 

[LaughingStock]

Probably an unpopular opinion. But i like the female character design in MK11. I was watching MK9 and the women there look like strippers. There's nothing wrong with that. But personally i think it's silly.
I find it ironic though how scarlett went from stripper outfit to a combat burqa.

 

[Silent Duck]

Breaking News: Sonya revealed for MK12

 

[molasar]

Breaking News: Sonya revealed for MK12

It's ma'am or lady Sonya to you.

 

[johntown]

I don't get it. Extreme violence and gore is fine, men who look like steroid injecting behemoths is fine but women is skimpy outfits with large boobs is not? It is not like this game is suppossed to portary an accurate version of real life. Seems to be a double-standard.

 

[Shin]

Mortal Kombat 12 Concept Pics LEAKED!

MK can step aside when you have this...

 

[CatCouch]

MK can step aside when you have this...

I like this!

 

[Sub_Level]

That's the irony, they say they're doing it for women, yet guess who love that stuff more than the so called "pervy" guys?


As you can see, Looney totally loves playing as her favorite females as modestly as possible.

Sure. There's also plenty of women who love the more modest designs too.



People like different shit. If you want thongs & tassels on your fighters thats cool. If you want cloaks & masks over your fighters thats cool too. Turns out most people can deal with either type of design.

 

[molasar]

MK can step aside when you have this...

Or this:

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Sure. There's also plenty of women who love the more modest designs too.



People like different shit. If you want thongs & tassels on your fighters thats cool. If you want cloaks & masks over your fighters thats cool too. Turns out most people can deal with either type of design.

So what you're saying is it shouldn't be a either-or situation like MK11 pulled? Well no shit!

 

[Sub_Level]

So what you're saying is Mortal Kombat 11 should have offered both instead of 1? Well no shit!

I'm saying that most people can play games with either type of design and are not overly concerned with how much skin their goofy videogame character is showing.

So far the high sales for MK11 are reflecting that. Cant wait for more solid figures.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I'm saying that most people can play games with either type of design and are not overly concerned with how much skin their goofy videogame character is showing.

So far the high sales for MK11 are reflecting that. Cant wait for more solid figures.

You have the sales figures for MK11 already?

Reason I ask is that this is already occuring:

 

[Sub_Level]

You have the sales figures for MK11 already?

Naw, which is why I said I can't wait for solid info. So far we only have bits and pieces of info, including the sales discount you posted.

- Most successful launch in franchise history. Has been posted in this thread once or twice. Source is WB Interactive's president.
- Largest launch in Warner Bros. Games history. Same source.

And then in the last 24 hours we have these tweets from benji:



Follows it up by saying that PS4 is still lead SKU by a huge margin, the implication being that it sold pretty damn well.

So we'll see, but early indications are looking good

Also worth noting that its predecessor MKX sold between 10 and 11 million, with half of those being by the end of 2015. This made it the best selling fighting game not named Smash.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

I'm saying that most people can play games with either type of design and are not overly concerned with how much skin their goofy videogame character is showing.

So far the high sales for MK11 are reflecting that. Cant wait for more solid figures.

I looked up more vids from the channel you sent, and that women seems to like both as she uses both just like Looney, she even had a "I love Ivy vid". Shame she no longer has a choice when she wants something different, she seems like a big fan.

Yup, high launch sales with high amounts of people mad they can't unlock those cosmetic at a reasonable rate. For people that don't care about how much skin there goofy videogame character is showing, they sure do seem to caring about what's on that skin.

 

[DryPancakes]

Honestly, at this point I don't want to see my sexy ladies being choped to pieces in the most brutal way possible, it's like DoA with fatalities, no thank you; for me, the more realistic the graphics get the less fun the violence becomes, I really wish MK followed the MK9 line while leaving the gritty boring face scanning realism to Injustice, even the intro banters were a left over from injustice, at this point those two franchises are indistinguishable from each other, anyway...

That being said, their reasons for the toning down, the "respekt wahmen" and all that is what's so dissapointing, if their reasoning was less pathetic it would be more tolerable but as it is it's just another social justice feminist nonsense argument.

According to NR only ugly women deserved to be choped to pieces, and cassie I guess, she looks pretty.

 

[Sub_Level]

Yup, high launch sales with high amounts of people mad they can't unlock those cosmetic at a reasonable rate. For people that don't care about how much skin there goofy videogame character is showing, they sure do seem to caring about what's on that skin.

The rate is one thing but also the randomness. I think people would be ok with:

- Get completely random rewards at a very fast pace
or
- Get exactly what you want with a tough & (fair) challenging grind

To have both high randomness & a slow grind is the issue NRS needs to address asap.

And contrary to what many of the people review bombing might imply, you can't buy your way out of this pickle with microtransactions. Only a few items go on sale every 24 hours that can be bought with real money. You also can't buy consumables to make challenges easier (which is a good thing because otherwise the singleplayer would be pay2win).

 

[HyGogg]

It uses the term non-ironically which is still pretty cringey.

Cringey dialog in a Mortal Kombat game you say?

Come on, let's not bullshit. The snowflakes are just mad that someone mentioned race, and all mentons of race are actually racism against white people. We've seen this, we know the pattern

 

[Dr. Claus]

Cringey dialog in a Mortal Kombat game you say?

Come on, let's not bullshit. The snowflakes are just mad that someone mentioned race, and all mentons of race are actually racism against white people. We've seen this, we know the pattern

HyGogg calling other people snowflakes. Ironic.

 

[Messerschmidt]

Yeah I don't blame a company for changing an aesthetic to appeal to a larger crowd. Pissing off people who jerk off to video game characters < Selling your game to a lot more fucking people.

When it comes to Trump being analogized to a villain... call me a hypocrite but I kinda just don't care, lol.

I still don't see how Jax ending slavery is a SJW token though. That sounds like some incel-alt-right crybaby shit to me. Unless I'm missing some major fact about that.

 

[JunkerWoland]

Much as review bombing is usually the result of mob mentality, it also often results from a core of honestly held opinions. In the case of Mortal Kombat 11, I count myself in the crowd that feels the developer went too far in toning down the female character designs; while post launch, the grind associated with unlocking things and what comes across as some overtly left-leaning social messaging is off-putting.

The problems currently associated with the Krypt and towers are universal, of course, but with some of the other perceived issues, the developer could have done a better job extending a hand those who expect a sexier Mortal Kombat and aren’t particularly interested in the staff’s opinions on the current sociopolitical climate.

I don’t expect WB and NetherRealm to do an about face, but I do hope they’ll take some criticism to heart, whether for the almost obligatory MK11 complete edition or the likely sequel.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

The rate is one thing but also the randomness. I think people would be ok with:

- Get completely random rewards at a very fast pace
or
- Get exactly what you want with a tough & (fair) challenging grind

To have both high randomness & a slow grind is the issue NRS needs to address asap.

And contrary to what many of the people review bombing might imply, you can't buy your way out of this pickle with microtransactions. Only a few items go on sale every 24 hours that can be bought with real money. You also can't buy consumables to make challenges easier (which is a good thing because otherwise the singleplayer would be pay2win).

They should just let people instantly buy the gear they want from the Kosmetic menu with the in game currency, just make it more expensive to do so. Players would still be encouraged to do towers to get more currency quicker and still do krypt for unlocking everything as it would be much cheaper to do so, but this would remove the randomness when it comes to there favorite character and there most wanted stuff as the cost of spending a lot more to get it.

I'm well aware of the rotating 5 cosmetics each day gimmick to MXT's, it's a mobile system usually to compliment lootboxes as limited but guaranteed rewards, which might be why people are thinking it's worse than it currently is. That or they think they'll pull a Activision and add more after the honeymoon period once reviews and first impressions are finished.

 

[Croatoan]

I'm saying that most people can play games with either type of design and are not overly concerned with how much skin their goofy videogame character is showing.

So far the high sales for MK11 are reflecting that. Cant wait for more solid figures.

Those sales have nothing to do with the costume design though, also they are about to fall off a cliff after the mtx issue has seen the light.

 

[Shin]

People like different shit.

A vast majority would probably go with sexy (this includes all sexes), a wiser business decision would be offering free outfits or as a business model for the minority.
Instead minority dictates what the majority (assumption) should like, have and/or be like and it doesn't stop there either as "our" (the majority's) views are also wrong.
But only after 2018 give or take is that the case....what a world.

 

[Cactuarman]

Interesting. I thought SJW was a term that group came up with. Is it more something people outside of that movement calls the collective...I'll admit it does kinda sound sarcastic.

As a feminist though, what trends in games have either vocally or quietly protested against? How do you feel about review bombing in general?

I appreciate the questions. To be honest I'd say the only thing I vocally protest is misinformation or bad faith discussion - I think open, honest conversations are incredibly valuable. Most of my quiet protesting would be buying or not buying something. Ultimately I think as a medium we should have both fan service AND games revolving around feminist, progressive, complex, etc. themes.

Ultimately I'd say first and foremost that I'm staunchly against censorship (actual censorship, not self-censorship or Steam not carrying a game for instance), and I think a creator should be able to create what they want. That doesn't mean that we have to like it BUT it also doesn't mean that we have to be shitty to other people who do. I think variety in games (and art overall) is important - experiencing different types of games, discussing different types of games, etc.

In the context of this thread I frankly don't care about how covered or uncovered the female fighters are (honestly a lot of the time I think "reasonable" outfits are far sexier, but I realize my own aesthetic preferences are subjective). And I think review bombing is juvenile and just muddies any actual discussion about the game. I could go on but I don't want to make this comment too long.

 

[Silent Duck]

There’re plenty of ways to deliver your voice and one of them isn’t by review bombing.

That’s why I’m voting with my wallet and not buying this game. There are plenty of other fighting games (new and old) on the market. Don’t need another MK.

My normal reaction: I will not pay $60+ for a game riddled with “free to play mobile game” mechanics. That is all.

My click-baity melodramatic reaction: Let them kill the MK franchise with micro transactions and virtue signaling. I, however, will not pay money to play with its corpse. Nay, I say to thee, Netherrealm studios!

 

[HyGogg]

HyGogg calling other people snowflakes. Ironic.

But am I wrong? These idiots are taking someone calling slavery bad as an attack on their whiteness. If that's not fragility, I don't know what is.

I might be a lefty but I'm not terribly concerned with political correctness, nor do I go around calling for people to "cancel" shit that I find offensive (which is exactly what these people are doing). There's a difference between having an opinion and being a fucking baby about it.

 

[ROMhack]

I don't see the issue toning down the character designs myself but the fighting game crowd is a total sausage zone and I can understand why it hasn't gone well.

Lessons will be learned I'm sure.

 

[Bigrx1]

Seems the bomb has WAY more to do with the MTX than anything else. And regarding the female outfits, I guarantee 80% or more of the guys that complain of outfits being too sexy are watching porn in the evenings. I’m a guy and not scared to say I like the cute and sexy outfits and I feel no shame in it. I’m not jumping on the faux outrage bandwagon. Now let me get back to this pron I was watching...

 

[lock2k]

Seems the bomb has WAY more to do with the MTX than anything else. And regarding the female outfits, I guarantee 80% or more of the guys that complain of outfits being too sexy are watching porn in the evenings. I’m a guy and not scared to say I like the cute and sexy outfits and I feel no shame in it. I’m not jumping on the faux outrage bandwagon. Now let me get back to this pron I was watching...

Sorry, I edited because I understood it wrong. You meant that those that are complaining about the sexy outfits are the same ones that are watching porn - faux moralists.

 

[Dr. Claus]

But am I wrong? These idiots are taking someone calling slavery bad as an attack on their whiteness. If that's not fragility, I don't know what is.

I might be a lefty but I'm not terribly concerned with political correctness, nor do I go around calling for people to "cancel" shit that I find offensive (which is exactly what these people are doing). There's a difference between having an opinion and being a fucking baby about it.

You are purposefully generalizing people's comments and concerns over this and making claims that they are "snowflakes" - so yes, you are wrong. You can disagree with them (which I do to a degree) - but the only one being a "fucking baby about it" would be you, at the moment.

 

[HyGogg]

You are purposefully generalizing people's comments and concerns over this and making claims that they are "snowflakes" - so yes, you are wrong. You can disagree with them (which I do to a degree) - but the only one being a "fucking baby about it" would be you, at the moment.

There is literally no sane way to have this conversation without generalizing about what they are saying, dude.

If you want to have a more specific conversation, that's on you. To what extent do you agree with this people?

 

[Dr. Claus]

There is literally no sane way to have this conversation without generalizing about what they are saying, dude.

If you want to have a more specific conversation, that's on you. To what extent do you agree with this people?

That the ending is poorly written and how it does not fit the character of Jax at all. I disagree with the concept that this specific story is SJW related - but just showcasing the idiocy of the development team and how little they seem to care about their history or characters.

 

[HyGogg]

That the ending is poorly written and how it does not fit the character of Jax at all.

Do you think the rest of the game/series is well written?

 

[Dr. Claus]

Do you think the rest of the game/series is well written?

Comparatively, yes.

 

[Elcid]

I reluctantly bought the premium edition for my brother as a gift, but passed for myself. Saw some gameplay on Twitch for a while, I'm not missing anything.

 

[Soltype]

You know how I know the character designers are full of crap. They say a woman wouldn't be showing too much skin if she was going to a fight, but why the hell would she wear heels? All these design choices are knee-jerk reactions, none of these changes were organic or properly thought out.

 

[Labolas]

But am I wrong? These idiots are taking someone calling slavery bad as an attack on their whiteness. If that's not fragility, I don't know what is.

I might be a lefty but I'm not terribly concerned with political correctness, nor do I go around calling for people to "cancel" shit that I find offensive (which is exactly what these people are doing). There's a difference between having an opinion and being a fucking baby about it.

I find the ending incredibly lazy and just defined Jax by the color of his skin. That's why it's terrible.

 

[Christopher]

I just saw Jax ending...wow

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

They have a beautiful engine and story mode looks awesome, wish the endings got the same treatment rather then the comic book style ones.

 

[Jon Neu]

Sure. There's also plenty of women who love the more modest designs too.



People like different shit. If you want thongs & tassels on your fighters thats cool. If you want cloaks & masks over your fighters thats cool too. Turns out most people can deal with either type of design.

Wow, one female youtuber!!1!

MK has rised to the top by being an over the top game with sensesless violence and also sexy women wearing skimpy clothes. I'm pretty sure the majority of buyers of MK are still heterosexual men.

If some puritan feminits want more modest designs, then include them. You don't have to erase the skimpy ones just to make a crazy loud minority happy.

 

[FranXico]

Omfg the reason the game is ass is because of the slimy as fuck MTX bullshit in a game that they FUCKING DARE to ask 100 dollars for.

It has nothing to do with any sjw crap dumb shitlords trying to force politics into mk11 gtfo xD. I swear it is this dumb outrage culture on both sides.

If yall wanna be mad be mad at the MTX sheit..

This.

I'm willing to bet that the SJW nonsense was put in there just to distract consumers from the microtransactions.

Keep fighting over that rubbish, while NRS and Warner fill their pockets.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Wow, one female youtuber!!1!

MK has rised to the top by being an over the top game with sensesless violence and also sexy women wearing skimpy clothes. I'm pretty sure the majority of buyers of MK are still heterosexual men.

If some puritan feminits want more modest designs, then include them. You don't have to erase the skimpy ones just to make a crazy loud minority happy.

Funny thing about that vid he used to "counter" my LooneyLili example is I didn't actually ever see her say anything about liking the Jade's outfits just because they were modest, but she liked Jade's look in MK11 because of her face model and the color schemes and accessories she has her for her outfits. Plus if you look on her video list, she uses characters like Ivy in SoulCalibur, her favorite MK character is Mileena, and I saw her using Mileena's practically naked costume in some of her MK9 vids, which actually supports the point I was making in the first place about normal women when it comes to these kind of outfits.