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[KXVXII9X]

It wasn't mean to be explored like in a open world, thats what I meant. It was supposed to be straight routes, and those routes can be further explored to find additional routes, itens, caves etc. But in the end they are all linear routes, and that helps the player not only exploring but finding specific mons and focus on specific locations(like named caves and such).
Open worlds are meant to be explored in a different approach, one that gives freedom. But pokemon is not about freedom, you are supposed to beat trainers to get stronger, fight gyms in order to beat the league(or similars), etc. The reason for that is that is helps trainers to accordly with the supposed level of the area. Just like rpgs, its a sequence to guide the trainer. This does not exist in SV.
The example you gave about NPCs is something I talked in my post. SV npcs are 90% completelly useless, unless find a specific npc that already is saying beforehand it's an event. People tend to say that the process of talking with a npc is "boring", what I found boring is passing through npcs and a bubble of dialogue appears above him sayin "slurp". This is laziest game they ever created.

Oh I see. Yes, they were a lot more straightforward and had an intented order that couldn't be completely deviated from.

I was most referring to the first few gens when mentioning NPC. They were still mostly boring for the most part, but the earlier games had NPC where some would give some valuable information, encouraging the player to engage with the NPC and towns. I haven't played SV but yeah, that seems pointless for NPC dialogue.

 

[Comandr]

I mean yeah but how is Gamefreak supposed to compete with that? The guy says (Google's auto translate is actually pretty handy) that 2D leaves more to the imagination. How can 3D do that? your head will always have the idealized version of what you want Charizard to look like, it'd be pretty damn hard to go into the mind of every kid and then animate a new, different animation of Charizard for every kid's specific desires and wants. & that's not even getting into the adult pokemon fandom, which is uh.... yeah.

I'm reminded of Pokemon Stadium and Super Mario Wonder. In Pokemon Stadium, there were tons of unique animations all over the place to make pokemon feel alive and expressive. And in SMW, Mario and pals have had a bit of a reimagining with their expressiveness. It's not an earth moving change, but some expression animations go an enormous distance to make the characters feel alive. Hell, even Sonic in 1991 had impatient idle animations that added a lot to his personality.

Charizard for instance is typically represented as a very prideful pokemon. Maybe his attack animations could have a bit of a "How's that?!" flair to them. He could do the arms crossed sideways glare pose towards this opponent while waiting for his turn. There's so many ways to add personality to a 3D model. Animation is really the key here. Asking GameFreak to do something like this would be like trying to get blood from a stone.

I'd really like to see Bandai Namco take a stab at the next mainline entry. They have done a ton of Pokemon games in the past, anime games are their lifeblood, and they've proven with New Pokemon Snap they can make a game that looks amazing on even the switch.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

i see a lot of people mentioning specifically gen 1-4 but not gen 5. I play black and white on DS and I quite enjoy it despite me swearing off Pokemon in the past. I've not played any of the previous games, remake or original.

Gen V is the best Pokemon gen and I was 20 when it came out and grew up with the series from Gen 1. People on this board got some bad taste, open world 3D Pokemon is soulless as fuck but I was shocked at the end of Scarlet and Violet, it was like a bad Xenoblade game... Which is way better than any 3D Pokemon should be.

 

[nikeboy94]

For me it was just the fact they kept making the same game again and again, but just with different pokemon who all started to become a blur due to how many they created.

I would agree that the games were more appealing and had more charm when they had 2D graphics. But they honestly should have given us a proper Action RPG Pokemon game in 3D ages ago. That would have been real innovation, to be give us an experience that felt more realistic. Imagine Breath of the Wild but with Pokemon. Legend of arceaus came close I guess, but I lost interest by then.

 

[AV]

My brother in Christ it's a children's game for children

 

[64bitmodels]

My brother in Christ it's a children's game for children

So is Mario Wonder. Your point??

 

[JimboJones]

I think the Call of Duty style cycle (or is call of duty copying Pokémon?)
Although at least Call of Duty actually has a competent engine and employs decent programmers.

 

[AV]

So is Mario Wonder. Your point??

If it's lost its charm, it might just be because you're a grown adult, not because it doesn't look like it did when you were a kid. Kids are still falling over themselves for Pokémon just like they were 25 years ago. The charm is still very much there.

It's a standard Victor Omega thread that reads like it was written by AI.

 

[64bitmodels]

If it's lost its charm, it might just be because you're a grown adult, not because it doesn't look like it did when you were a kid. Kids are still falling over themselves for Pokémon just like they were 25 years ago. The charm is still very much there.

It's a standard Victor Omega thread that reads like it was written by AI.

I brought up mario wonder because fans of the series from 1990 to now are falling in love with that game despite being old. This excuse doesn't seem to work for Mario

 

[AV]

I brought up mario wonder because fans of the series from 1990 to now are falling in love with that game despite being old. This excuse doesn't seem to work for Mario

There's no excuse. The game hasn't lost its charm to them. I'm not gushing over Wonder because I'm a 31 year old man and it just doesn't hit the same as it will to my 7 year old niece who thinks it's the coolest thing she's ever seen.

Still a good game though.

 

[Party McHardy]

How can one be charmed by terrible visual quality and horrendous frame rate? I’m not a 60pfs 4K guy by any means but it really made me put the game down.

 

[Doom85]

There's no excuse. The game hasn't lost its charm to them. I'm not gushing over Wonder because I'm a 31 year old man and it just doesn't hit the same as it will to my 7 year old niece who thinks it's the coolest thing she's ever seen.

Lost its charm, come on now, you for real? Tons of adults never stopped loving Mario and his games and it’s partly because they kept the quality up and offered new ideas for the franchise as it went along. Honestly, it’s disrespectful to be dismissive of their hard efforts versus Game Freak who seem terrified to add in much in terms of new mechanics, and when they do, they usually quickly abandon it for all future gens.

Also being E for Everyone doesn’t automatically make it aimed primarily at kids. It simply means anyone can play it even little kids without their parents objecting (barring the particularly crazy overprotective ones). It’s called family entertainment, anyone can enjoy it, like Pixar films. And I’m pretty sure the reasons lots of adults loved Toy Story 3 in 2010 but hated Cars 2 the following year wasn’t because Pixar had “lost its charm” in a single year for them.

Seriously, there’s nothing more eye roll-inducing than acting like a game/movie/show/etc. should be above criticism just because it doesn’t feature any blood, profanity, nudity, or drugs.

And let’s not pretend Pokémon doesn’t include elements clearly aimed at older audiences. What, you about to say that moment where an old man is excited about peeping inside at a gym filled with women, or the multiple female swimmer Trainers who playfully talk about storing things in their bikinis including Pokeballs, all that is for the kids?

 

[AV]

Lost its charm, come on now, you for real? Tons of adults never stopped loving Mario and his games and it’s partly because they kept the quality up and offered new ideas for the franchise as it went along. Honestly, it’s disrespectful to be dismissive of their hard efforts versus Game Freak who seem terrified to add in much in terms of new mechanics, and when they do, they usually quickly abandon it for all future gens.

Also being E for Everyone doesn’t automatically make it aimed primarily at kids. It simply means anyone can play it even little kids without their parents objecting (barring the particularly crazy overprotective ones). It’s called family entertainment, anyone can enjoy it, like Pixar films. And I’m pretty sure the reasons lots of adults loved Toy Story 3 in 2010 but hated Cars 2 the following year wasn’t because Pixar had “lost its charm” in a single year for them.

Seriously, there’s nothing more eye roll-inducing than acting like a game/movie/show/etc. should be above criticism just because it doesn’t feature any blood, profanity, nudity, or drugs.

And let’s not pretend Pokémon doesn’t include elements clearly aimed at older audiences. What, you about to say that moment where an old man is excited about peeping inside at a gym filled with women, or the multiple female swimmer Trainers who playfully talk about storing things in their bikinis including Pokeballs, all that is for the kids?

Seriously, who are you talking to? I literally played Mario Wonder last night and Pokémon Arceus was my #9 game last year.

All I said was that things don't inherently lose their charm to people because they do X or Y like OP implied. Some people outgrow Mario and Pokémon, others don't and still find it charming. That's fine.

 

[Doom85]

Seriously, who are you talking to? I literally played Mario Wonder last night and Pokémon Arceus was my #9 game last year.

All I said was that things don't inherently lose their charm to people because they do X or Y like OP implied. Some people outgrow Mario and Pokémon, others don't and still find it charming. That's fine.

There’s nothing to “outgrow”. Mario and Pokémon appeal to all ages. It has nothing to do with maturity (and I roll my eyes at anyone who thinks their maturity is tied to what media they enjoy). If it no longer appeals to you, that’s one thing but that doesn’t mean we can no longer apply critical thought to a series.

No, you can’t just dismiss criticism with such a “eh, they outgrow it” nonsense. Game Freak has allowed the formula to grow stale. Nintendo has allowed Mario to constantly bring in new mechanics, but still allow it to be at its core the platformer it always was. For fucks’ sake, Mario 3D World was practically bringing in a new mechanic every 3-4 levels. No main Pokémon sequel has ever been so experimental or bold.

So your original dismissive post of “it’s a children’s game” is what unnecessarily derailed this all to begin with. Candyland is a game that can be played by kids. So is chess. So is chess a “children’s game”? Basketball can be played by children. Is basketball a “children’s game”? No, don’t be ridiculous.

For fucks sake, the official tournaments have age divisions and one is specifically for adults. They wouldn’t do that if this series wasn’t made for kids and adults in mind.

Don’t get all defensive when you’re the one who tried to be dismissive of this thread’s discussion in an unhelpful and inaccurate way.

 

[AV]

There’s nothing to “outgrow”. Mario and Pokémon appeal to all ages. It has nothing to do with maturity (and I roll my eyes at anyone who thinks their maturity is tied to what media they enjoy). If it no longer appeals to you, that’s one thing but that doesn’t mean we can no longer apply critical thought to a series.

No, you can’t just dismiss criticism with such a “eh, they outgrow it” nonsense. Game Freak has allowed the formula to grow stale. Nintendo has allowed Mario to constantly bring in new mechanics, but still allow it to be at its core the platformer it always was. For fucks’ sake, Mario 3D World was practically bringing in a new mechanic every 3-4 levels. No main Pokémon sequel has ever been so experimental or bold.

So your original dismissive post of “it’s a children’s game” is what unnecessarily derailed this all to begin with. Candyland is a game that can be played by kids. So is chess. So is chess a “children’s game”? Basketball can be played by children. Is basketball a “children’s game”? No, don’t be ridiculous.

For fucks sake, the official tournaments have age divisions and one is specifically for adults. They wouldn’t do that if this series wasn’t made for kids and adults in mind.

Don’t get all defensive when you’re the one who tried to be dismissive of this thread’s discussion in an unhelpful and inaccurate way.

All defensive? Brother, you just wrote over 6 paragraphs explaining why you still play kid's games. It's okay to play them. Nobody here will judge you. I do the same sometimes. But pretending Pokémon's primary target market isn't children is an insane cope, half the people who play Pokémon today are those who played it as kids and never let it go. That's fine, get them on the hook as kids and hope as many as possible cling on, I'm going to guess you started when you were 13. But people can and do also outgrow it because they're games made for children and sometimes that charm doesn't hold up as an adult, or at least not forever.

Really not that deep and really couldn't care less what you play, don't worry about it.

 

[StueyDuck]

I've been trying to articulate why Pokemon hasn't hit for me in recent Installments. Is it the poor or lazy design in Pokemon? That could be looked passed. Continuing to appeal to first time fans when the series is now multi generational? Yeah maybe.

But I feel what really done it for me is the modernization in visual, the need to go fully 3D and the introduction of Online.

I'm not saying these things are bad in any way and that Gamefreak should not have incorporated them. It was in fact Inevitable.

Moving Pokemon into full 3D should have been a bigger concern to both GameFreak and Nintendo giving the magnitude of challenges they never faced. It is one thing to just make Pokemon 3D, but the 3D animation, unique movements, and attacks haven't been fully realized in 3D (While I would argue the Monster Hunter has some of the most unique 3D animations, they too have peaked in that category recycling monsters and movements) we are talking over 1000s of Pokemon now. This isn't even considering Nintendo's hardware philosophy to be able to handle such a fidelity. (We haven't even mention 3D environment and it challenges.)

Online features in the main series, while welcomed, is missing something Pokemon GO recaptures,
ironically, from the older games; physical coop. Not just local coop

Pokemon's creator caught bugs as a child. The older games, with the Gameboy link cable or the DS wireless connection and Pokemon GO, successfully simulate that virtually. Pokemon Go as mentioned uses online to physically move people. You don't really get that in mainline series.

The real charm that has been lost the most is audio. As an audiophile. Some of the best chiptune music have come from GameFreak. All of which has gone now.

But the 2D graphical fidelity from Crystal to Ruby and Sapphire and Diamond and Pearl Mixed 2.5D that followed was peaked visuals and audio and should have stayed as the staple for the series.

What do you think?

Never evolving and just throwing 100s of silly Pokémon ruined Pokémons image (also not being a child)

I got Scarlett and i instantly regretted it.

 

[Doom85]

All defensive? Brother, you just wrote over 6 paragraphs explaining why you still play kid's games. It's okay to play them. Nobody here will judge you. I do the same sometimes. But pretending Pokémon's primary target market isn't children is an insane cope, half the people who play Pokémon today are those who played it as kids and never let it go. That's fine, get them on the hook as kids and hope as many as possible cling on, I'm going to guess you started when you were 13. But people can and do also outgrow it because they're games made for children and sometimes that charm doesn't hold up as an adult, or at least not forever.

Really not that deep and really couldn't care less what you play, don't worry about it.

So you’re not going to address any of my individual points about how it’s a game/franchise for all ages, and just throw out generalizing arguments.

Gotcha. If that’s all you’ve got for your “argument”, I really won‘t worry about it, since lord knows I’ve learned not to engage with people like you who don’t want to actually have a discussion and just repeat, “no, I’m right!” a bunch.

Have a nice day.

 

[Raonak]

Making mid tier games is what killed pokemon's charm.