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MS not mandating any framerate or fidelity requirements on Scorpio including in MP
- Thread starter Kayant
- Start date
This is good. I would go one step further and say that a dev should have the right to release their games exclusively for Pro/Scorpio.
Imagine if Valve told developers..."If you want to release a game on Steam it has to be compatible on some old and terrible 200$ laptop that has barely any gaming capability." Guess what..not every single game on Steam is compatible with every single PC gaming device out there. PC does it the right way and there is nothing wrong with it. Consoles should follow.
No company should ever have that type of power over developers. Hardware gets old. The industry has to move on so get over it. Vanilla PS4/X1 are outdated. They are reaching toaster levels compared to modern day graphics and compute capability. There is no reason for them to hold anything back in any way. Let the devs do what they want.
Imagine if Valve told developers..."If you want to release a game on Steam it has to be compatible on some old and terrible 200$ laptop that has barely any gaming capability." Guess what..not every single game on Steam is compatible with every single PC gaming device out there. PC does it the right way and there is nothing wrong with it. Consoles should follow.
No company should ever have that type of power over developers. Hardware gets old. The industry has to move on so get over it. Vanilla PS4/X1 are outdated. They are reaching toaster levels compared to modern day graphics and compute capability. There is no reason for them to hold anything back in any way. Let the devs do what they want.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
While Scorpio can run games at 60fps (so can PS4, PS4 Pro and XB1) it doesn't mean every game will.
Developers like shiney graphics + high resolutions and will run a game at 30fps if they want to, so there is still a very good chance Destiny 2 on Scorpio will run at 30fps. Bungie already said it's a CPU issue because they are using the CPU for other things like decent AI and Physics, so with Scorpio's CPU being only slightly faster than the Pro's, it seems like the same issue will still apply.
It's good to know that MS won't put a restriction on framerate though.
Developers like shiney graphics + high resolutions and will run a game at 30fps if they want to, so there is still a very good chance Destiny 2 on Scorpio will run at 30fps. Bungie already said it's a CPU issue because they are using the CPU for other things like decent AI and Physics, so with Scorpio's CPU being only slightly faster than the Pro's, it seems like the same issue will still apply.
It's good to know that MS won't put a restriction on framerate though.
jetsetnickradio
Member
60 FPS players will have an advantage, but I wouldn't call it huge. A 30 FPS player should still be able to compete against 60 FPS players. I used to play Team Fortress 2 on an old ass laptop at like 20 FPS at best and I still managed to get kills. I think player skill plays a much bigger factor than the framerate, although higher frames are always a plus.
timmyp53
Member
Nope in between for sure.
Well, the advantage is at least six times 200 mhz but that still doesn't mean anything if you dont know the details of the engine and don't know how much the average fps is above 30 fps.
You also habe a higher resolution with ps4 pro. Fps is a different thing but it worked and works on pc since ever. Also it is up to developers and not Microsoft.
PS5.
This has been the case for online pc shooters since they were made and it didn't change much there.
It's up to the devs to make the decision at the end of the day on what they feel is right for their title - as it should be.
Can't agree with making Pro/Scorpio exclusives. There would be nothing to really gain by dropping the OG consoles.
Also while Valve doesn't tell developers to support weaker hardware, the market certainly does. Unless I'm mistaken, the 970 is still the most popular card on steam and that's pretty outdated compared to current high end GPUs. We still see games support even weaker hardware.
The OG consoles are not holding anything back compared to the refreshes. I imagine studios are more likely to invest more into the higher end versions if they knew they had 70+million consoles to also fall back on.
Why is it stupid? The average gamer won't be able to tell and for those that do care about higher frame rates will own a Scorpio or a PC really.
I thought Sony insisted that MP res's were the same? If not that's stupid too.
As for PC, that's one reason I don't play MP PC games
Hopefully they let standard Xbox One users opt-out of matchmaking with them then. Massive advantage, far more than any controller or Internet speed gives imo.
Pretty sure stuff like BF1's res can go well over 900p on the Pro, so no res parity required.
I thought Sony insisted that MP res's were the same? If not that's stupid too.
As for PC, that's one reason I don't play MP PC games
Pretty sure stuff like BF1's res can go well over 900p on the Pro, so no res parity required.
Sony
Nintendo
Advantage is relative. I found that when I was a PC gamer back in the day, I would sometimes lower the resolution of a game because combined with the aiming it felt better. On paper, higher res = more pixels = more things you can see and higher fps = faster response.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Bingo
There is no parity goal with Destiny 2 and we'll still see 30fps titles on the next gen consoles. So there's no guarantee that Destiny 3, for example, will be 60fps on the next gen systems even with upgraded CPUs. Bungie has always done 30fps on consoles.
Edit:
There is absolutely no situation where the framerate will be worse unless it involves some odd bug.
Theblackrain
Member
People need to temper their expectations for Scorpio. It has a great GPU boost over XB1 but not such a great CPU boost. Scorpio will be 30fps too, not out of parity but out of necessity.
This.
Spider_Jerusalem
Member
You mean, like on PC?
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Assume a game is rendered internally at 900p on Xbox One and at 4k on Scorpio (downscaled for lower res screens), I see no reason why the framerate on Scorpio would easily be guaranteed to be as high as on Xbox One.
Caayn
Member
It's strange how they fucked that up, especially since the system already downsamples from 1080p to 720p, and previous consoles also did it.
It all depends on where the bottlenecks were to prevent the game to hit 1080p on XBO. It may be able to hit 4K on Scorpio, it may not. Still, if the studio is mindful of bottlenecks on the XBO and use a resolution that works within those restraints, it makes no sense that this studio would throw those principles out the window for Scorpio just to force 4K when it doesn't offer the same optimal performance.
It's just not a realistic situation.
Why not?
I should've been more clear. I was comparing the Scorpio to a PS4 Pro, not a normal Xbox.
Steelyuhas
Member
What requirements?
Yeah it's worth noting as a part of this discussion that with specific hardware in mind (or in these case a handful of specific hardware), developers will make choices on what they want to prioritize from a technical perspective for their game. There will always be compromises on a fixed piece of hardware.
Even if MS and Sony let them make exclusives, doubt many will decide to skip the what? 80-90m combined installbase for one that's probably never going to break 20m, or at least won't for a very long time.
Also very few devs have maxed out the standard PS4 yet, same can't be said for some $200 laptop, that was never good in the first place.
It's all going to depend on price and marketing in my opinion.
$400 or less on top of it being branded/advertised almost like a new console (instead of "current gen +" like the PS4 Pro) will help.
On top of this, something that I think many aren't putting into consideration is the fact that many people that bought an Xbox One before Holiday 2014 side more with the Xbox brand considering the negativity during the time. People that bought a PS4 before Holiday 2014 were a good mix of PlayStation fans as well as regular gamers that wanted the console (especially considering how well the console did alongside games like Destiny). Therefore, I think there will be a higher percentage of Xbox One owners that will upgrade to Scorpio in comparison to the percentage of PS4 owners that upgraded to PS4 Pro. We'll see though. It will again all depend on how Microsoft will push and price this in my opinion.
The whole point is that it should be up to the developers. If they want to do it then let them. They want to take the risk let them. Sony and Microsoft shouldn't ever stick its nose into their business. Mandating stuff like that is stupid. Let them mandate in forcing devs to do achievements or small stuff like that. And even that is dumb tbh.
Also the 970 released like 3 years ago and its still gonna be roughly in the same ballpark of power as the Pro/Scorpio depending on your CPU. That even more just shows how old and outdated the vanilla 2013 consoles are.
Starbuck2907
Member
You left out host advantage for games with no dedicated servers.
With a normal Xbox, it would be at least six times 700 mhz.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Assume the game holds 30fps steadily at 900p but is very erratic at 1080p on Xbox One, is it completely out there that the 4k performance is within an acceptable level (to the developer) on Scorpio, but worse overall than it is at 900p on Xbox One?
Scorpio has more than 4x the gpu power of Xbox One and 700 mhz more clock per CPU core.
CerebralTiger
Member
Outside of the quality of internet (which, on average, is good enough for MP anyway), none of the other advantages you've listed hold a candle to '30 fps vs 60fps'.
Caayn
Member
Don't confuse bandwith with latency. Latency differs a lot between connection types. Player A can see event X a few frames before player B sees it due to connection latency on top of the latency introduced by the display.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
So going by this it would mean that if Bungie wants Destiny 2 to run at 60fps on Scorpio, they could? Not expecting it but if you think about it it's quite a shame it has all that power, both Pro and Scorpio and they don't fully utilize it.
Why not bring a 1080p/60fps and 4k/30fps option?
Why not bring a 1080p/60fps and 4k/30fps option?
On PC that already exists - people with wildly varying frame rates play together. Isn't the tick rate on MP usually lower than 60fos anyway so you'll have a benefit in smoother graphics but won't be getting a benefit in actually updating enemy locations any faster?
Also any faster framerate will only be possible if the original game could already have run at higher than 30fps if it wasn't unlocked, and the slightly higher clocked CPU allows that to get close to or hit 60fps. It isn't a big leap in CPU power (even more so on Scorpio compared to PS Pro because the XB1 was starting from a higher CPU frequency than PS4) so don't expect huge leaps in framerate
Imagine if Valve told developers: "You can target the highest spec machines exclusively, but you'll only be targeting around 5% of the current player base we have in Steam"
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I am aware of this. Is there any consequence in particular that you want to point me at?
If you are aware then I don't know what you are trying to address at all.
This is great marketing by MS. They're leveraging the unknown (because bungee can't talk about it yet) to give people hope through positive phrases like no mandated parity. They know this is unlikely to mean incr asked framerates in many games, but it creates a positive feeling towards Scorpio as many people project their hopes onto that messaging.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
The additional technological ressources of Scorpio may be used, without any restriction from MS's side, to up the resolution and add some effects, but as a consequence the game may run worse on Scorpio than Xbox One, which might be something some owners of Scorpio would not be too happy about. I don't get why, in a discussion about this, you outline exactly in what way Scorpio is more powerful than Xbox One.