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[Kayant]

People really are not getting nekkid point. Think of it this way if you had 144hz monitor + 144fps in game what good is that when your ping is in the high 250s+ each time?

Point being made is things like network (which is arguably the most important factor) make a more impactful difference than 30 Vs 60fps. Personally don't see that other factors having more impactful of a difference than 60fps Vs 30 in the context of consoles but network can't be denied.

 

[malfcn]

Well who is gonna wanna play a competitive 30fps MP FPS on X1 when your gonna get matched up against 60fps Scorpio players?

What's stopping a casual pc player from playing against a gaming rig?

 

[Nategc20]

4k/60fps single

4k/30fps mp

 

[BRocknRolla]

4k/60fps single

4k/30fps mp

The opposite would be more logical.

There's even precedent for it.

 

[nekkid]

If you're so bothered that you won't have the competitive edge of the higher frame rate, then it seems like you're the target audience for a Scorpio-type console.

 

[statham]

If you're so bothered that you won't have the competitive edge of the higher frame rate, then it seems like you're the target audience for a Scorpio-type console.

or controller, TV resolution, TV lag, or internet speeds, it will never ever be equal. HDR is a handicap but also a bonus on looks. *shrug*

 

[-hadouken]

or controller, TV resolution, TV lag, or internet speeds, it will never ever be equal. HDR is a handicap but also a bonus on looks. *shrug*

This is the biggie. Most casual gamers have no idea that they need to turn the TV to game mode. Default latency can be so very high these days - bordering on the unplayable for FPS and fast action.

 

[ZOONAMI]

This kool-aid is really syrupy

The Scorpio's CPU is 9% faster than Pro's

Yep and the GPU isn't enough to add 30 frames to anything on the pro unless they turn down other eye candy. Even then at 4k the CPU bottleneck is real.

Just build a PC for $800 or so if you want to be able to do 4k 60 (and still have to turn down settings). People don't seem to understand how taxing 4k is. My rig with a Xeon 1231v3 and 1070 I imagine D2 I'll be running mediumish settings to get 4k 60.

 

[nekkid]

Yep and the GPU isn't enough to add 30 frames to anything on the pro unless they turn down other eye candy. Even then at 4k the CPU bottleneck is real.

Just build a PC for $800 or so if you want to be able to do 4k 60 (and still have to turn down settings). People don't seem to understand how taxing 4k is. My rig with a Xeon 1231v3 and 1070 I imagine D2 I'll be running mediumish settings to get 4k 60.

It's doesn't need to add 30fps over the Pro to achieve 60fps, depending on where the actual frame rate is before the lock.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

There's a good bit of PR in those Tweets too, because if a developer makes a game at 30fps, and fanboys get annoyed because they are expecting 60fps on everything (Destiny 2) then MS can say "well you can't blame us, that's down to the developers, because we don't have any restrictions on devs."

 

[Yarbskoo]

Would that blame be placed on sony/microsoft, developers, or both? IDK i'm not a console maker (lol) but would you say that they put the best hardware in these machines based on the time of release and at a reasonable cost? (Pro/Scorpio)

Mostly on developers, though Sony and Microsoft aren't helping with their focus on "4K Gaming". I get why they're marketing image quality over performance, but it seems like a mistake to push for 4K when most games still can't hit the basic 1080p/60Hz standard that most displays have supported for a long time now.

The hardware is kind of irrelevant. There were tons of 60fps games on the NES, and even a budget PC can hit 1080/60 in most newer games just by turning down a few settings.

 

[Mechanized]

Eh... I guess MS is in no position to make demands so it makes sense. Sucks though. Predicting a lot of 30fps titles.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Could go either way. If Scorpio doesn't set the world on fire, don't see a ton of 3rd party games doing more than simple resolution bumps.

 

[TsuWave]

so they changed their stance on fps? iirc they said the opposite when announcing the scorpio right?

 

[Doffen]

Well who is gonna wanna play a competitive 30fps MP FPS on X1 when your gonna get matched up against 60fps Scorpio players?

You're also going to get matched up with people who got better ping, better screen, better headset/audio system, better controller, etc.

 

[hanspampel]

Well who is gonna wanna play a competitive 30fps MP FPS on X1 when your gonna get matched up against 60fps Scorpio players?

no one who i taking a competitive game slightly serious, is going to play on a weaker machine, if he needs or prefers 60fps over 30.
every other person does not care, or does not have the ambitions, so it won't matter


this is a pure non existing constructed issue, so people can continue to complain about something.
why is there even a discussion here?

 

[nekkid]

no one who i taking a competitive game slightly serious, is going to play on a weaker machine, if he needs or prefers 60fps over 30.
every other person does not care, or does not have the ambitions, so it won't matter

this is a pure non existing constructed issue, so people can continue to complain about something.
why is there even a discussion here?

Perfect. My opinions exactly.

 

[gamz]

no one who i taking a competitive game slightly serious, is going to play on a weaker machine, if he needs or prefers 60fps over 30.
every other person does not care, or does not have the ambitions, so it won't matter


this is a pure non existing constructed issue, so people can continue to complain about something.
why is there even a discussion here?

Exactly. As many have said people who care about this buy the best anyways.

 

[oneils]

You're also going to get matched up with people who got better ping, better screen, better headset/audio system, better controller, etc.

Developers can't really control the variability of any of these. But maybe they want parity for the things they do control. It all seems like a moot point, anyway. This assumes that scorpio can manage 4k@60fps. If the ps4 pro can manage 1080p @60 fps why not do that? If they aren't, it kind of tells us something about how they might build for scorpio.

 

[LukasTaves]

Sony advertises Pro as "dynamic 4k" meaning maybe, maybe not....

Microsoft advertises Scorpio as "true 4k"

If both consoles have games that are not 4k which one of them is lying?

Sony, because dynamic whatever res means a native resolution up to that resolution that is scaled back if needed. And there's like 2 or 3 games on Pro with dynamic 4k resolution.

The fact that they created a whole new meaning for the term in this ad is exactly what I would call lying.

 

[Doffen]

Developers can't really control the variability of any of these. But maybe they want parity for the things they do control. It all seems like a moot point, anyway. This assumes that scorpio can manage 4k@60fps. If the ps4 pro can manage 1080p @60 fps why not do that? If they aren't, it kind of tells us something about how they might build for scorpio.

They can create caps for everything, just like resolution and frame rate.

 

[mrklaw]

Sony, because dynamic whatever res means a native resolution up to that resolution that is scaled back if needed. And there's like 2 or 3 games on Pro with dynamic 4k resolution.

The fact that they created a whole new meaning for the term in this ad is exactly what I would call lying.

all games are jigsaw pieces of varying resolutions these days. You're layering objects + shadows + reflections + alpha + AA + motion blur + post processing and most of them are not rendering at the native resolution of your display for efficiencies sake.

Checkerboarding is just adding another method of arriving at a destination resolution through efficient reuse of existing assets/previous frame information + new rendering. It is entirely in keeping with rendering technology developments of recent years.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Most games are CPU limited on current gen consoles, and on Pro and Scorpio the CPU is even more underpowered in relation to the GPU than on the base consoles

A CPU boost of a few percent won't be enough for 60 fps in games like Destiny, this is just a ridiculous discussion

 

[MysteryM]

all games are jigsaw pieces of varying resolutions these days. You're layering objects + shadows + reflections + alpha + AA + motion blur + post processing and most of them are not rendering at the native resolution of your display for efficiencies sake.

Checkerboarding is just adding another method of arriving at a destination resolution through efficient reuse of existing assets/previous frame information + new rendering. It is entirely in keeping with rendering technology developments of recent years.

I think what will be interesting to see is what checkboarding looks with a game in motion compared to a proper 4k scorpio output, comparing frames at least seems to show good results.

I'm hoping 4k textures will show a more visible difference between the two.

 

[ToastyBanana]

Could go either way. If Scorpio doesn't set the world on fire, don't see a ton of 3rd party games doing more than simple resolution bumps.

Since its not mandated I wonder if we'll get instances like Prey where they don't do anything extra at all.

 

[KageMaru]

This is the biggie. Most casual gamers have no idea that they need to turn the TV to game mode. Default latency can be so very high these days - bordering on the unplayable for FPS and fast action.

Not just casual gamers either. I've had quite a few friends who game as much as any GAFFER and they weren't playing on game mode or even with calibrated settings.

 

[gamz]

Since its not mandated I wonder if we'll get instances like Prey where they don't do anything extra at all.

Nah. If the game is on PC it's just as easy to throw it on Scorpio.


Unless I'm wrong?

 

[KageMaru]

Nah. If the game is on PC it's just as easy to throw it on Scorpio.


Unless I'm wrong?

The word "easy" is relative with game development. It may be easier than it is on other platforms, but I'm sure it's not easy.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Nah. If the game is on PC it's just as easy to throw it on Scorpio.


Unless I'm wrong?

The word "easy" is relative with game development. It may be easier than it is on other platforms, but I'm sure it's not easy.

4K assets shouldn't be hard to implement for those who are already creating them for PC.

 

[TharpDaddy]

4K assets shouldn't be hard to implement for those who are already creating them for PC.

I'm more curious if they'll split the downloads. For example, if you download a game from the store, will it detect your console and only make you download the 4K assets if you're on a Scorpio? Will it just be a separate download (free DLC) like how some PC games handle it?

 

[Andodalf]

Nah. If the game is on PC it's just as easy to throw it on Scorpio.


Unless I'm wrong?

4k assets are easy, and other changes are pretty simple if the game has a UWP version.

 

[arhra]

I'm more curious if they'll split the downloads. For example, if you download a game from the store, will it detect your console and only make you download the 4K assets if you're on a Scorpio? Will it just be a separate download (free DLC) like how some PC games handle it?

UWP and the Windows Store already have support for optional resource packs, that can be conditionally downloaded based on various things, such as device capabilities, locale, etc (ie, high-dpi assets, language packs, different shaders for different DX feature levels, etc). Scorpio support will almost certainly be using some variant of those same APIs (probably extended to switch based on which hardware iteration you're using).

In fact, if you go to Games & apps on an XB1 now, and hit LR+RB+View on a game tile that's been installed/updated recently (this only started showing up with one of the updates earlier this year, and the metadata is only updated when a game is installed/updated), it'll bring up a popup with some details on the game, one of which is an "Assets Installed:" line that currently only ever lists "Xbox-Durango;Xbox-Durango-Only;". Scorpio games with high-res texture packs will presumably have "Xbox-Scorpio" and/or "Xbox-Scorpio-Only" assets available, which will be downloaded when you install/update a game on a Scorpio.

 

[Bsigg12]

I'm more curious if they'll split the downloads. For example, if you download a game from the store, will it detect your console and only make you download the 4K assets if you're on a Scorpio? Will it just be a separate download (free DLC) like how some PC games handle it?

You can already see that the Xbox One type is being detected with regards to what to download if you press LB+RB+View on a game tile. Seems like they'll only offer the larger download if they detect a Scorpio in is and push the proper down load to it.


You'll always want the 4K assests on the Scorpio even if you're playing on a 1080p screen so it can supersample since that's a system wide feature along with the forced 16x AF.

Edit: I took too long on mobile to type this up and was beaten badly.

 

[LukasTaves]

all games are jigsaw pieces of varying resolutions these days. You're layering objects + shadows + reflections + alpha + AA + motion blur + post processing and most of them are not rendering at the native resolution of your display for efficiencies sake.

Checkerboarding is just adding another method of arriving at a destination resolution through efficient reuse of existing assets/previous frame information + new rendering. It is entirely in keeping with rendering technology developments of recent years.

But the one aspect haven't changed which is how we determine resolution by the geometry buffer of the scene. That's what was always used to determine resolution, and the rendering becoming more complex and with other buffers composing the image didn't change that.

Still, most games on Pro aren't hitting the 2160c goal, so even with that definition it would be a lie.

 

[Maintenance]

The fact that they created a whole new meaning for the term in this ad is exactly what I would call lying.

You mean like Microsoft does all the time? Yeah, I agree.

 

[LukasTaves]

The word "easy" is relative with game development. It may be easier than it is on other platforms, but I'm sure it's not easy.

Ms has tools/IDE and "guidelines" to develop for Pc that should make extremely easy to support Xbox, of course not everyone follows, so the difficulty varies.

 

[Fisty]

I'm more curious if they'll split the downloads. For example, if you download a game from the store, will it detect your console and only make you download the 4K assets if you're on a Scorpio? Will it just be a separate download (free DLC) like how some PC games handle it?

The 1080p or w/e textures will still have to be on the disc for XB1 users, and the 4K assets won't fit on there as well with 95% of games. This means the 4K textures will have to be a separate, free DLC download.

Enjoy your day one +25gb downloads, Scorpio folks

 

[Detective]

The 1080p or w/e textures will still have to be on the disc for XB1 users, and the 4K assets won't fit on there as well with 95% of games. This means the 4K textures will have to be a separate, free DLC download.

Enjoy your day one +25gb downloads, Scorpio folks

And Why does it bother you?

I will enjoy it cuz it will take few minutes to download it.

 

[jelly]

The 1080p or w/e textures will still have to be on the disc for XB1 users, and the 4K assets won't fit on there as well with 95% of games. This means the 4K textures will have to be a separate, free DLC download.

Enjoy your day one +25gb downloads, Scorpio folks

Would that also mean the game takes longer to load levels, matches etc. the console doesn't have a fast hard drive or SSD?

 

[benson827]

Well its not like the tablet esque cpu can really allow a mandated 60fps across everything.

They could however mandate specific resolution boosts

 

[Fisty]

Would that also mean the game takes longer to load levels, matches etc. the console doesn't have a fast hard drive or SSD?

Without a doubt, 4K textures are very heavy. Hopefully the extra 3gb memory or whatever they added will mitigate that a bit

And Why does it bother you?

I will enjoy it cuz it will take few minutes to download it.

Why on Earth would i live there?

 

[Trup1aya]

The 1080p or w/e textures will still have to be on the disc for XB1 users, and the 4K assets won't fit on there as well with 95% of games. This means the 4K textures will have to be a separate, free DLC download.

Enjoy your day one +25gb downloads, Scorpio folks

We have no idea how 4K assets will be delivered yet.

Could be that large games With native 4K support ship with an extra disk.

Could be that 4K packs are free for anyone to download at anytime, so that they can be pre loaded. When the game launches people who buy on disc or digitally would then have access to it.

How is this handled for PS4 games?

 

[Fisty]

We have no idea how 4K assets will be delivered yet.

Could be that large games With native 4K support ship with an extra disk.

Could be that 4K packs are free for anyone to download at anytime, so that they can be pre loaded. When the game launches people who buy on disc or digitally would then have access to it.

How is this handled for PS4 games?

I have a feeling that there won't be 4K textures for most Scorpio games. Its a lot of extra overhead for a very small segment of the userbase (an extra disc? Nah), not to mention the press would probably not be too kind to the process of actually getting 4K assets. Also, caps exist so lots of people might have issues when they have to download huge files to take advantage of their hardware.

It wasn't well thought out imo. They can't put games on UHD, which would solve the whole problem. Sony will be able to do this with PS5, which will have plenty of power to actually do something with 4K instead of just wasting the power on getting XB1 or PS4 equivalent games to 4K, with enough room on the game disc to actually fit the assets. The current gen is NOT ready for 4K, which is why Sony's approach of "here's something to hold you over" is better than Scorpio's "The highest quality pixels, true 4K"

 

[Detective]

Without a doubt, 4K textures are very heavy. Hopefully the extra 3gb memory or whatever they added will mitigate that a bit



Why on Earth would i live there?

Live where? lol, you really got some issues man.

 

[K.Jack]

We have no idea how 4K assets will be delivered yet.

Could be that large games With native 4K support ship with an extra disk.

Could be that 4K packs are free for anyone to download at anytime, so that they can be pre loaded. When the game launches people who buy on disc or digitally would then have access to it.

How is this handled for PS4 games?

No, they aren't going to spend money on an extra disc, when it can be a download.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Did Sony ever confirm this rule exists? Maybe Pro games don't offer it because there just isn't enough power. Can't see it making much difference on Scorpio outside of Microsoft games.

 

[Fisty]

Live where? lol, you really got some issues man.

It's a reference to a guy who thought that since he had fantastic internet service, everyone else in the world did

 

[Trup1aya]

I have a feeling that there won't be 4K textures for most Scorpio games. Its a lot of extra overhead for a very small segment of the userbase (an extra disc? Nah), not to mention the press would probably not be too kind to the process of actually getting 4K assets. Also, caps exist so lots of people might have issues when they have to download huge files to take advantage of their hardware.

It wasn't well thought out imo. They can't put games on UHD, which would solve the whole problem. Sony will be able to do this with PS5, which will have plenty of power to actually do something with 4K instead of just wasting the power on getting XB1 or PS4 equivalent games to 4K, with enough room on the game disc to actually fit the assets. The current gen is NOT ready for 4K, which is why Sony's approach of "here's something to hold you over" is better than Scorpio's "The highest quality pixels, true 4K"

We still don't know what the plan is... to early to say it wasn't thought out IMO. I really don't see how Sony's strategy is any better than MS, since any dev can choose to take a Pro approach to Scorpio support if they want.

No, they aren't going to spend money on an extra disc, when it can be a download.

It does seem wasteful, especially since only a small portion of the base will have a use for the disc. But multidisk games aren't unheard of.

 

[rokkerkory]

4k/60fps single

4k/30fps mp

1080p60 super sampled would be the win

 

[Fisty]

1080p60 super sampled would be the win

How?