MS Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player: Who's getting it?

I got a question before buying this one.
I read that past 2010, or sth like this, I won't be able to watch movies in hd without an hdmi-connection (due to copy protection or so).
Does this also apply to the hddvd 360 thing? I'm using vga connection btw.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
"Tears of the Sun" (Sony) is probably considered one of the best right now for single-layer MPEG2.
Click to expand...
Ah, right.
I heard people gushing about it, I have yet to check it out (I think the movie itself, PQ aside, was crap).

Pristine_Condition said:
It is a good reference title, and on par with anything on HD DVD in any codec.
Click to expand...
It’s a codec question, not a physical format one.
And since neither you (guessing here) nor I have seen *EVERY* HD-DVD movie out there, I suggest we refrain from such potentially troll inducing comments.
 
Onix said:
Dedicated HD-DVD players decode the new high-res audio formats ... and then output them over 5.1 analog.

So on a 'real' HD-DVD, you would still be able to get improved sound. That is my main beef with this unit.
Click to expand...


I agree, but with the caveat that TrueHD is only on a very few discs so far. If they upgraded the decoding to DTS1.5Mb/s for the TrueHD, then it'd be great for me. Although I have 5.1 inputs its hassle connecting them to the player and the sound from my A1 was still great over coax.

as it is, I'll live with the (still better than DVD) DD recompression, and keep my fingers crossed for a spring update (MS have basically said they can do it, just depends on demand)
 
Chichikov said:
Ah, right.
I heard people gushing about it, I have yet to check it out (I think the movie itself, PQ aside, was crap).


It’s a codec question, not a physical format one.
And since neither you (guessing here) nor I have seen *EVERY* HD-DVD movie out there, I suggest we refrain from such potentially troll inducing comments.
Click to expand...

No doubt, I haven't seen every HD DVD or Blu-ray title out there, but I've seen a lot, and I feel perfectly compfortable with everything I've said on this subject.

There's a big difference in the codecs at lower bitrates, no doubt. But Blu-ray isn't pushing low bitrates.

Please, go read some of the reviews of recent single-layer Mpeg2 titles at the link I posted earlier. You'll find the early hype just doesn't jibe with real results.

I don't have any problem with HD DVD. I just have a problem with people making broad statements based on a few, months-old reviews of early titles, and ignoring everything else to make silly statements like "HD DVD is clearly ahead."

Buy what you want. I'll eventually have both, most likely. If MS updates to an HDMI version of their player, that would be a serious contender for me for an HD DVD player as I already have the 360. Until then, I won't be getting anything for HD movies until I eventually pick up a PS3 whenever Sony pulls their heads out of their asses and starts building enough units.
 
Frankfurter said:
Probably imported them from somewhere else. HD DVD and Blu Ray both launch around the end of November or the beginning of December (around that time the X360 HD DVD addon will launch for 189€, the Toshiba HD DVD Player for 499€ or 599€ and the (Pioneer, Panasonic, don't remember anymore) Blu Ray Player for ... 1499€ [that's atleast the prices for Germany, could be slightly different in other european countries]).
Click to expand...

According to this particular thread, Samsung and Panasonic BR players are already out in Italy and Portugal, with BR movies start flooding (in Europe) this holiday season

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=739246
 
Pristine_Condition said:
You are making a lot of general statements not backed up by facts. Name some recent reviews. Provide some links.

Look at non-fanboy reviews of even single layer MPEG2 Blu-ray titles with HD DVD counterparts, and you'll see the results are often the same.

Check out this one:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/skycaptain.html


...you'll find the HD DVD camp, much like George Bush in Iraq, celebrated their "Mission Accomplished" way too soon.
Click to expand...
Well, considering I actually saw this one, this is a review I can whole heartedly disagree with.
But I think we derailed this thread enough for now.

p.s.
my statements are based only on personal experience.
 
I'll be either picking up the add-on or a standalone this holiday season. It all depends on the price difference between the two and how well the add-on upscales DVDs as I'll see no reason to replace my entire collection when the A1 is the best upscaling player you can buy. TrueHD is bonus but not critical to me...and I have a digital receiver. Those of you with analog receivers really shouldn't care.

And, yes, HD DVD is far ahead...in terms of sales. Quality of releases generally still favors HD DVD but BR is getting better. A couple of months ago the quality difference was laughable.

The format war is far from over and neither side might win...which is why Netflix and BB are both good options whichever path you travel...
 
offtopic said:
I'll be either picking up the add-on or a standalone this holiday season. It all depends on the price difference between the two and how well the add-on upscales DVDs as I'll see no reason to replace my entire collection when the A1 is the best upscaling player you can buy. TrueHD is bonus but not critical to me...and I have a digital receiver. Those of you with analog receivers really shouldn't care.

And, yes, HD DVD is far ahead...in terms of sales. Quality of releases generally still favors HD DVD but BR is getting better. A couple of months ago the quality difference was laughable.

The format war is far from over and neither side might win...which is why Netflix and BB are both good options whichever path you travel...
Click to expand...

Your 360 has the ability to upscale over VGA without the HD-DVD add-on. I doubt the add-on will allow you to upscale DVD's over component, when MS has purposely left this feature out in the past.
 
LJ11 said:
Your 360 already upscales DVD's through VGA.
Click to expand...
I want to know if the HD DVD add on will upscale my DVD's through component...

AlanHemberger said:
I'll be getting this on release day. I can't remember if I posted in this thread already.

Anyways, does it upscale DVD's?

And is there a solid release date yet?
Click to expand...
Please, someone.
 
Yeah...I currently don't use the VGA connection but I'd be open to it if the HD DVD player upscales really well. If it isn't competitive with the A1 w/re to upscaling then I won't bother and I won't bother with the add-on either (depending on price difference...). Part of the reason to get an HD DVD player with an outstanding scalar is so that you can buy/watch movies not only from your old collection of DVDs but also to watch material from the studios who aren't supporting HD DVD (btw, I think its total CRAP that all studios don't support both formats...let quality and price determine what the consumer will buy THX). The joke a couple months ago on AVS was that upscaled DVDs from Sony studios playing on the Toshiba looked better than the BR version playing on the crap Samsung. :lol

Either way I will be getting HD DVD. I do that with the understanding that I don't care if it becomes obsolete at some future point. If people aren't comfortable with that then they shouldn't buy.
 
I'll be buying it. I don't care which of the two next-gen formats wins and the movies I buy for the thing won't randomly stop working either.
 
Truelize said:
That boggles me.


So is there an HDMI output on the player?
Click to expand...

No HDMI. There are a few DVD players that can upconvert over component (Zenith, Momitsu etc) and some can do it if their firmware is hacked, but they are not widely available because of pressure from the movie industry (CSS copy protection as well).
 
(Getting back to the topic that some have enjoyed derailing!)

Yea, I plan on getting a HD-DVD drive for for Christmas. For $200, King Kong as a show piece and a media remote, why won't a 360 owner want one?
 
Not really interested in HD DVD add on or a full blown BLU RAY player. Good ole DVD fits me just fine...that and a Div X player.:)
 
Pristine_Condition said:
Amir is a Microsoft employee. He leads the HD DVD crusade at AVS. He often posts the most ridiculous hyperbole to support his opinions. It's sad that anybody listens to his crap and doesn't see through it as PR FUD, but there are a lot of fools out there.

AVS is full of fanboys, just like any other open forum.

Look at what HighDefDigest and other less fanboyish sites and reviewers have said recently about Blu-ray, and you'll quickly see that HD DVD is not "clearly ahead" by any real stretch.
Click to expand...


:lol

At least Amir says who he is, and who he works for. The same can't be said for some very vocal BR supporters. Moreover, what's funny is that a lot of those very same "fanboys" were BR fanboys before they were HD-DVD fanboys.

Anymore, I don't give a sh**. I just want one format, but I might spend a marginal sum to get into the HD game.
 
DCX said:
Dude, i do not have the capacity of doing more than 5.1. I don't have the space or the permission ( aesthetically, 5.1 is hard to get away with when you have a family and your home theater resides in your living room ) so 6.1, 7.1, 7.2 or whatever else isn't going to do a damn thing for me. A new version of PL II would, but not worth an upgrade yet. My HDTV is 720P so the best i can get out of it is 1080i. I don't see myself spending 500-800 bucks on a HD DVD player or a BluRay player for that matter, if all i need really is the higher resolution, well let me rephrase...all i can get out of it RIGHT NOW, is the higher HD res.


DCX
Click to expand...

You seem to be confusing things here.

While it is possible for studios to have more than 5.1 channels on these movies ... few have done so.

The important aspect is the sound QUALITY IMPROVEMENT.



This unit does not have it as it has no way to output it.
 
aparisi2274 said:
I saw this in action at the Digital Life Expo, and it looked absolutely stunning. I know that the no hdmi hurts it, but I am telling you, it really does put out a stunning picture... and for $200, who wouldnt want to get it.
Click to expand...

Those that want audio improvements to go along with the video.
 
mrklaw said:
I agree, but with the caveat that TrueHD is only on a very few discs so far. If they upgraded the decoding to DTS1.5Mb/s for the TrueHD, then it'd be great for me. Although I have 5.1 inputs its hassle connecting them to the player and the sound from my A1 was still great over coax.

as it is, I'll live with the (still better than DVD) DD recompression, and keep my fingers crossed for a spring update (MS have basically said they can do it, just depends on demand)
Click to expand...

TrueHD is not the only codec that is better than (DVD) max-rate DD and DTS ... DD+, DTS Master Audio, DTS HD, and PCM are all higher quality (well, can be).
 
Pristine_Condition said:
You are making a lot of general statements not backed up by facts. Name some recent reviews. Provide some links.

Look at non-fanboy reviews of even single layer MPEG2 Blu-ray titles with HD DVD counterparts, and you'll see the results are often the same.

Check out this one:



http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/skycaptain.html

There has been a lot of FUD in AV circles, mostly from the AVS Forum camp and lots of Euro/UK sites that were bitter that they had to wait for Blu-ray. As more and more reviews come down, it's plain that there really isn't that much of a difference with single-layer Blu-ray titles vs. dual-layer HD DVD titles, even with the different codecs, and Blu-ray is just now hitting it's dual-layer stride, which will close the gap further and perhaps pull ahead in terms of extras and audio.

Really, read some Blu-ray reviews from mid-September forward...

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/reviews.html

...you'll find the HD DVD camp, much like George Bush in Iraq, celebrated their "Mission Accomplished" way too soon.
Click to expand...



Riiiggghhhhtttt... Warner, Fox, Disney, and Panasonic's newly minted H.264 encoder say hellllooo.

Anyway you look at it, the sooner that BR studios transition to VC-1/MPEG-4 AVC the better. And you better believe that's what will happen. Outside of BD50, MPEG2 is on it's last legs. And before you say, "buh, buh, teh BD50 discs are coming", I'd hasten you to wait a year to see how many BD50 movies we actually see on the mass market before declaring victory.
 
HokieJoe said:
Riiiggghhhhtttt... Warner, Fox, Disney, and Panasonic's newly minted H.264 encoder say hellllooo.

Anyway you look at it, the sooner that BR studios transition to VC-1/MPEG-4 AVC the better. And you better believe that's what will happen. Outside of BD50, MPEG2 is on it's last legs. And before you say, "buh, buh, teh BD50 discs are coming", I'd hasten you to wait a year to see how many BD50 movies we actually see on the mass market before declaring victory.
Click to expand...

I agree. No reason to waste the 50gb advantage by using mpeg2. Sony have stated that they're going to use VC-1. I expect some early 2007 titles to have VC-1.

Image the space they'd save on BD50 discs, which will allow them to put more High def extras, and multiple lossless tracks.
 
Amir is a Microsoft employee. He leads the HD DVD crusade at AVS. He often posts the most ridiculous hyperbole to support his opinions. It's sad that anybody listens to his crap and doesn't see through it as PR FUD, but there are a lot of fools out there.
Click to expand...

Actually, I have found him to be very reliable with his information, which is more than I can say for anyone representing the Bluray camp.

And quite honestly, the only one spouting PR FUD seems to be you. HD-DVD sales are far ahead of Bluray sales, especially when it comes to software. HD-DVD titles are outselling the same Bluray titles, typically by a margin of 10 to 1.

One more thing, people who constantly spew venom and consider anyone interested in HD-DVD to be some kind of moron, and insist that nothing could or ever will topple the big bad bluray juggernaut are ultimately going to play a huge part in the failure of that format.

To many people, HD-DVD is the format NOT being shoved down their throats.
 
Onix said:
Those that want audio improvements to go along with the video.
Click to expand...

You're going to hate me for saying this Onix, but it's a fact - there's almost no measurable consumer demand for the improved audio - it's all about the video. After 5.1, average Joe doesn't care. That's why SACD and DVD-A were doomed - nobody outside of audiophile circles knew, noticed or cared if there was anything wrong with CD quality.

That said, HD-DVD and Blu Ray introduce improved audio smoothly and without requiring a new (audio) investment for the consumer. Which means when distribution eventually goes digital, we'll probably get the new audio formats as a "taken for granted."
 
Stinkles said:
You're going to hate me for saying this Onix, but it's a fact - there's almost no measurable consumer demand for the improved audio - it's all about the video. After 5.1, average Joe doesn't care. That's why SACD and DVD-A were doomed - nobody outside of audiophile circles knew, noticed or cared if there was anything wrong with CD quality.
That said, HD-DVD and Blu Ray introduce improved audio smoothly and without requiring a new (audio) investment for the consumer. Which means when distribution eventually goes digital, we'll probably get the new audio formats as a "taken for granted."
Click to expand...

yep
 
Sean*O said:
To many people, HD-DVD is the format NOT being shoved down their throats.
Click to expand...

I totally do not understand this logic. A PlayStation 3 isn't a necessity, so how can you say it's being shoved down your throat? Did the Sony Yakuza come by to kick your ass to force you to camp out in front of Toys R Us for two days to buy one?

If you don't like it, then by all means, buy an Xbox 360 or whatever the hell you think defines your retail freedom :)
 
Yeah I think Stinkles is right.


I think stuff like 7.1 is cool too, but to be honest 5.1 is fine with me and enough for what I need.
 
Petrarca said:
According to this particular thread, Samsung and Panasonic BR players are already out in Italy and Portugal, with BR movies start flooding (in Europe) this holiday season

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=739246
Click to expand...
Yesterday I saw the first BluRay player here in germany (1499 Euros).

It ran some BluRay/standard TV comparision on a 60" Plasma, quite impressive...but on the other hand Kingdom of Heaven showed some very visible artifacts...way to go until the format really delivers.
 
Stinkles said:
You're going to hate me for saying this Onix, but it's a fact - there's almost no measurable consumer demand for the improved audio - it's all about the video. After 5.1, average Joe doesn't care. That's why SACD and DVD-A were doomed - nobody outside of audiophile circles knew, noticed or cared if there was anything wrong with CD quality.
Click to expand...

Sadly ... I know.

My original responses (complaining about the fubar audio), was directed to the question posed by the OP. ie. Who would purchase this.

From my perspective, it is half the cost of a dedicated HD-DVD player ... and that makes since, since it is half of a player :)


So from my point of view, it is not worth the cost.

That said, HD-DVD and Blu Ray introduce improved audio smoothly and without requiring a new (audio) investment for the consumer. Which means when distribution eventually goes digital, we'll probably get the new audio formats as a "taken for granted."
Click to expand...

Yep. It isn't necessarily a strong selling point, but once people eventually have the equipment to support it ... I think they'll be happy with the improvement.
 
Onix said:
TrueHD is not the only codec that is better than (DVD) max-rate DD and DTS ... DD+, DTS Master Audio, DTS HD, and PCM are all higher quality (well, can be).
Click to expand...


"can be" is just it though. I'm going to bet the add-on will move to DTS 1.5Mb re-encoding pretty soon (within 6 months). So then we have a player on a par with an A2 without HDMI. Pretty good for the price.

If all discs came with TrueHD or equivalent you'd have a strong argument. But very few are, and very few are using any of the other codecs to their potential (DD+ is just 640kb/s at the moment - the same bitrate as the DD reencodes on the 360)

So your argument needs to be tempered by the reality of the situation. Maybe it'll improve, but how quickly?

I'm not happy with DD reencoding, but I will be with DTS if/when it comes. And at that price its almost throwaway money.

If you're as serious about audio as your avatar and previous posts suggest, then the add-on isn't for you. You need something with 5.1 analog outs. But that shouldn't detract from the clear value of the add-on for others.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
No doubt, I haven't seen every HD DVD or Blu-ray title out there, but I've seen a lot, and I feel perfectly compfortable with everything I've said on this subject.

There's a big difference in the codecs at lower bitrates, no doubt. But Blu-ray isn't pushing low bitrates.

Please, go read some of the reviews of recent single-layer Mpeg2 titles at the link I posted earlier. You'll find the early hype just doesn't jibe with real results.

I don't have any problem with HD DVD. I just have a problem with people making broad statements based on a few, months-old reviews of early titles, and ignoring everything else to make silly statements like "HD DVD is clearly ahead."

Buy what you want. I'll eventually have both, most likely. If MS updates to an HDMI version of their player, that would be a serious contender for me for an HD DVD player as I already have the 360. Until then, I won't be getting anything for HD movies until I eventually pick up a PS3 whenever Sony pulls their heads out of their asses and starts building enough units.
Click to expand...

HD-DVD is clearly ahead.

http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

show me where i made any statements about picture quality or sound quality. i was only talking about sales in response to someone suggesting we wait until one format is dominant.

but no jump down my throat and call me ignorant. if i minded that kind of thing i wouldn't post on GAF.
 
mrklaw said:
"can be" is just it though. I'm going to bet the add-on will move to DTS 1.5Mb re-encoding pretty soon (within 6 months).
Click to expand...

When I said 'can be', I was referring to the quality of the source. No codec can save a shitty source.

That being said, nearly every HD-DVD and BluRay title sounds better than the DVD counterpart. It is as simple as that - at least based on the reviews I've read.

So then we have a player on a par with an A2 without HDMI. Pretty good for the price.
Click to expand...

No ... no you don't. The A2 has decoding for DTS-HD and Dolby Digital Plus ... and is (not sure if done yet) is being upgrading for multi-channel TrueHD.

This audio is decoded in the player, and then sent via 5.1 analog outs. The 360 HD-DVD player does not have 5.1 analog outs ... so it can't do that.

If all discs came with TrueHD or equivalent you'd have a strong argument. But very few are, and very few are using any of the other codecs to their potential (DD+ is just 640kb/s at the moment - the same bitrate as the DD reencodes on the 360)

So your argument needs to be tempered by the reality of the situation. Maybe it'll improve, but how quickly?
Click to expand...

Can you point out info that most of the movies are capped at 640kb? I find that surprising, and can't imagine it will stay that way for long at all.

I'm not happy with DD reencoding, but I will be with DTS if/when it comes. And at that price its almost throwaway money.
Click to expand...

Throwaway money? I just think it makes a hell of a lot more sense to save up for a real one.

If you're as serious about audio as your avatar and previous posts suggest, then the add-on isn't for you. You need something with 5.1 analog outs. But that shouldn't detract from the clear value of the add-on for others.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, I've stated that fact in this thread.

I specifically pointed out that I was answering the question posed in the original thread as requested ... and only continued the discussion due to some people being unclear of the ramifications/details of the audio situation.



BTW - My avatar is a pic of my amp for my 2-channel setup :)
 
I might, but not until it has really proven to be important. So first I want a lot of HD-DVD movie releases and I still hope (and think) games will be released on HD-DVD in a few years, can't miss.
 
Pirahna said:
Well if anyone is on the fence about getting one, hurry up and decide. Looks like amazon is sold out of their initial allotments.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=744408

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-HD-DVD-Player/dp/B000JHO4L0/sr=8-1/qid=1162416002/ref=sr_1_1/104-1802766-5450327?ie=UTF8&s=videogames
Click to expand...

yeah noticed that too. I was really thinking about preordering from Amazon last week, but opted for Gamestop instead

...thats awesome that it sold out though :)
 
Loops said:
is the add-on region locked ? i heard for the moment le players weren't locked.
Click to expand...
It's not region locked for HD DVD yet, but they are apparently gearing up to discuss region locking for the format. I'm not sure if that would affect already released products though, I don't think it usually does.

I'm definitely picking one up, I'm just waiting for some confirmation for the release in the UK. :/
 
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