My analysis of Saturn's failure

It didn't help matters that there was a civil war on at Sega leading up to and into the launch of the Sega Saturn, there was probably more unity in the 80's with the Master System project and Project Mega-Genesis...
Don't think Sony and Nintendo didn't have problems... but nobody talks about it, and why doesn't anyone talk about it? Obviously, the N64 had 7 launch games that surpassed 1 million copies sold, Sony Playstation had 6 3D games and 2 2D games that reached 1 million copies, totaling 8 games (at that time the Saturn sold more devices than the PS1). Now look at the Saturn, VF2 sold 1.7 million copies, a good number, right? Wrong. Sega gave away VF2 in promotions like "buy the console and get the game free" and not only that, VF1 is included! This is bad because actual sales are low, but that's not even the problem. The problem is that the other games, namely: Panzer Dragoon, Daytona, Victory Goal, Rad Mobile, Wing Arms, Gen War, Black Fire, Bug, they are all 3D and they were all rejected! Saturn had several 2D games, but they were also rejected. Would it have cost at least one of them to have sold well? after all, I repeat, the Sega Saturn in that period sold more than the PS1. So the correct investigation is to know why the Saturn, with a larger base than the PS1 from December 94, in early 1996 produced only 1 or 2 games capable of selling 1 million copies while the PS1 in the same period produced 8.
 
Don't think Sony and Nintendo didn't have problems... but nobody talks about it, and why doesn't anyone talk about it? Obviously, the N64 had 7 launch games that surpassed 1 million copies sold, Sony Playstation had 6 3D games and 2 2D games that reached 1 million copies, totaling 8 games (at that time the Saturn sold more devices than the PS1). Now look at the Saturn, VF2 sold 1.7 million copies, a good number, right? Wrong. Sega gave away VF2 in promotions like "buy the console and get the game free" and not only that, VF1 is included! This is bad because actual sales are low, but that's not even the problem. The problem is that the other games, namely: Panzer Dragoon, Daytona, Victory Goal, Rad Mobile, Wing Arms, Gen War, Black Fire, Bug, they are all 3D and they were all rejected! Saturn had several 2D games, but they were also rejected. Would it have cost at least one of them to have sold well? after all, I repeat, the Sega Saturn in that period sold more than the PS1. So the correct investigation is to know why the Saturn, with a larger base than the PS1 from December 94, in early 1996 produced only 1 or 2 games capable of selling 1 million copies while the PS1 in the same period produced 8.
What could SEGA do against Sony's infinite marketing money ? Back then in France it was just insane the amount of TV ads we were getting for the PS1.
 
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I was a diehard Saturn kid and would clash with my Sony loving school pals when a new hit dropped.
We had to take the victories when they came "We're getting a port of Quake lads!!!!"

Obviously I had to get a PSX later when I saw things like GTA1, FF7, Metal Gear Solid, Tekken 3, Gran Turismo.
And I was a HUGE Tomb Raider fan, so needed one to continue that series.

Yeah the PlayStation was better (and cooler), but I have a real soft spot for the Sega Saturn- ugly polygons and all.

Not saying it had a chance of winning, but I'd like to see an alternate timeline where a proper 3D Sonic and that Shenmue version was completed for the Saturn.
 
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Don't think Sony and Nintendo didn't have problems... but nobody talks about it, and why doesn't anyone talk about it? Obviously, the N64 had 7 launch games that surpassed 1 million copies sold, Sony Playstation had 6 3D games and 2 2D games that reached 1 million copies, totaling 8 games (at that time the Saturn sold more devices than the PS1). Now look at the Saturn, VF2 sold 1.7 million copies, a good number, right? Wrong. Sega gave away VF2 in promotions like "buy the console and get the game free" and not only that, VF1 is included! This is bad because actual sales are low, but that's not even the problem. The problem is that the other games, namely: Panzer Dragoon, Daytona, Victory Goal, Rad Mobile, Wing Arms, Gen War, Black Fire, Bug, they are all 3D and they were all rejected! Saturn had several 2D games, but they were also rejected. Would it have cost at least one of them to have sold well? after all, I repeat, the Sega Saturn in that period sold more than the PS1. So the correct investigation is to know why the Saturn, with a larger base than the PS1 from December 94, in early 1996 produced only 1 or 2 games capable of selling 1 million copies while the PS1 in the same period produced 8.
Well it wasn't all bad, the Saturn was the most successful Sega console in Japan in their hardware history, and it had the sort of longevity there that they could only dream of having in the west...
 
What could SEGA do against Sony's infinite marketing money ? Back then in France it was just insane the amount of TV ads we were getting for the PS1.
Sony and Sega spent equivalent amounts, the difference is that Sega sold a lot of hardware and few games, while Sony sold the same amount of hardware and a lot of games. Sony just reinvested the profits, that's the financial difference.
 
it was but as mentioned earlier hideki sato did regret not using model1 hardware as a base for the saturn , sega system 16 was used as the basis for genesis design , this was a successfull investment for sega , it would have been worth it for the saturn too.
No hardware would save Sega. Note how Capcom and Sony make games to be marketed in the west, including using western protagonists. The west is the largest consumer market for video games. Sega simply made games with no commercial appeal for westerners. Panzer Dragoon is an example Its visuals are wide and solitary. Japanese people live in a megalopolis, with lots of people and a lot of rushing around. So, what the Japanese gamer wants are games that give them this solitude: you alone with your spear, you alone with your wolf, you alone with your dragon. Sega has the right to make its games according to its interests, but we're talking about business here.
 
I also wonder what exactly the Saturn is supposed to be better at when it comes to 2D.
Try to imagine the N64 running Street Racer, the PS1 had cuts but runs at 60fps, the N64 in Fast3D rarely reaches 60fps.


I thought Saturn was better at 2D?

I remember reading 2D based games like Capcom fighting games were always better on Saturn due to more ram so characters had more frames of animation? Or was that all BS?
The Saturn has 500kb of extra VRAM memory and this allows for an animated background, but it's not like the PS1's 3D is bad. You show Tomb Raider at 15-20fps on the Saturn and a solid 30fps on the PS1, people notice the difference. You show Street Fighter Zero 3 arcade-perfect on the Saturn and the PS1 version with cut animations, and nobody cares, including me, who's proficient in fighting games.
 
Indeed. There are plenty of games with excellent FMV especially late in the life-cycle of the console. This simply demonstrates that progress was made with encoding throughout the life of the console. We ended with super clean FMVs in many games.
Yes, after a poor start. FMV picked up on the Saturn. For it started with Deadlus on Saturn in may 95
 
Try to imagine the N64 running Street Racer, the PS1 had cuts but runs at 60fps, the N64 in Fast3D rarely reaches 60fps.


The terrain is 3D, with 2D sprites instead of 3D models for cars.

Mario Kart 64 is pretty much the same deal but with bigger and more detailed 3D terrain.


You show Street Fighter Zero 3 arcade-perfect on the Saturn and the PS1 version with cut animations, and nobody cares, including me, who's proficient in fighting games.
It's arcade perfect on Saturn because of the usage of RAM carts, not the vanilla hardware.

Without the cart, the game is on par with the PS1 version.


I remember reading 2D based games like Capcom fighting games were always better on Saturn due to more ram so characters had more frames of animation? Or was that all BS?
The Capcom fighting games that were better on the Saturn used the RAM carts to increase the RAM, for the cut animations to fit.
 
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The Capcom fighting games that were better on the Saturn used the RAM carts to increase the RAM, for the cut animations to fit.
Plenty were better without a RAM cart too like SF 2 Alpha 2 , Night Warriors or X-Men COTA.

Not that were the best examples of Saturn 2D and don't hold a candle to Guardian Heroes, Astal, Astra Super Stars Ect, ect
 
Plenty were better without a RAM cart too like SF 2 Alpha 2 , Night Warriors or X-Men COTA.

Not that were the best examples of Saturn 2D and don't hold a candle to Guardian Heroes, Astal, Astra Super Stars Ect, ect

Exactly this, the RAM cart didn't emerge until 1998

PS1 couldn't draw sprites or background layers, so had to make use of polygons with textures instead

I'm surprised these games got so close

 
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I was a diehard Saturn kid and would clash with my Sony loving school pals when a new hit dropped.
We had to take the victories when they came "We're getting a port of Quake lads!!!!"

Obviously I had to get a PSX later when I saw things like GTA1, FF7, Metal Gear Solid, Tekken 3, Gran Turismo.
And I was a HUGE Tomb Raider fan, so needed one to continue that series.

Yeah the PlayStation was better (and cooler), but I have a real soft spot for the Sega Saturn- ugly polygons and all.

Not saying it had a chance of winning, but I'd like to see an alternate timeline where a proper 3D Sonic and that Shenmue version was completed for the Saturn.

Exactly the same experience here and I took the same path.

I actually like Saturn more as I've gotten older, it's quirky and unique and I adore the art and music of Sega's games of that time.

I don't think it's as good as PlayStation or N64, but it was so different and was host to so many excellent arcadey games it deserved more success as a "second console".
 
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Exactly this, the RAM cart didn't emerge until 1998

PS1 couldn't draw sprites or background layers, so had to make use of polygons with textures instead

I'm surprised these games got so close


Well the SNK ROM and RAM carts came out in 96, but in the main the Saturn was in a different league. I know people will bring up In The Hunt .

Play Souky and Darius Gadien on the Saturn and then play the PS1 version. That said PS 1 2D was very good I was supper impressed with the 2D in Skull monkeys
 
Saturn biggest problem was Sega itself

Production department was full of shit even before, having a lot of crap for the Mega Drive and not making a real difference in the industry

I mean, if you already announced a new console, why having an addon hardware that costs a lot? And if was not doing well, why launching even another one?

If you're producing a new hardware, be certain to release new content that shows the new shit. Saturn only got a few, and the new Sonic was doomed from the start. Also, was too much of a fighting console to compete, and Sony's marketing was heavy on teens to adults on games that could not exist before

Fucking Nintendo was already late, and even delayed the console more to have games to show. Still, there was a consistency and planning. Sega didn't really do their job, and only later they saw this, even doing good with Dreamcast, but was too late, and having that much time loosing money, and with competition already showing a big future, it was becoming third or just dying

Similar thing happened with the Wii U, having the console without a good production planning. It was the first time ever that Nintendo lost money, and that costs three years of bleeding. They found out and fix it launching the Switch having years of production planned, and SW2 doesn't look much different
 
Exactly this, the RAM cart didn't emerge until 1998

PS1 couldn't draw sprites or background layers, so had to make use of polygons with textures instead

I'm surprised these games got so close



the Saturn was also often forced to use polygon billboards.
anything the VDP1 draws on screen is polygon based. in most 2D games the VDP1 renders all the interactive elements, while the VDP2 renders all the background and/or foreground layers.
so many of the things that look and behave like sprites, are in fact polygons.

in Mega Man X4 for example, even your life bar is a polygon with a texture on it. and of course all enemies, your character, and some select background/foreground elements.
 
PS1 couldn't draw sprites or background layers, so had to make use of polygons with textures instead

I'm surprised these games got so close
The reason is simple: the PS1 can draw tons of polygons.

Let's use an example: VF2, one of the most advanced games to combine 2D and 3D, high resolution, 60fps. Compare that to Tobal, which does all of this in full 3D with lighting.
 
the Saturn was also often forced to use polygon billboards.
anything the VDP1 draws on screen is polygon based. in most 2D games the VDP1 renders all the interactive elements, while the VDP2 renders all the background and/or foreground layers.
so many of the things that look and behave like sprites, are in fact polygons.

in Mega Man X4 for example, even your life bar is a polygon with a texture on it. and of course all enemies, your character, and some select background/foreground elements.

VDP1 was sprite based

The quads were warped 4-sided sprits. Not my words, the words of AM2 (see below video)

Saturn was a sprite based machine, PlayStation and N64 were polygon machines with geometry engines.

 
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The reason is simple: the PS1 can draw tons of polygons.

Let's use an example: VF2, one of the most advanced games to combine 2D and 3D, high resolution, 60fps. Compare that to Tobal, which does all of this in full 3D with lighting.

It's a shame Tobal 2 didn't release in the west, lovely looking game (though didn't play that great).

KkDrsfDnAl3HBAVn.jpeg
 
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VDP1 was sprite based

The quads were warped 4-sided sprits. Not my words, the words of AM2 (see below video)

Saturn was a sprite based machine, PlayStation and N64 were polygon machines with geometry engines.



"sprite based" doesn't mean what I said is wrong.
VDP1 could only render sprites posed on top of a polygon. so every texture you see is a warped sprite. the environment you see in Tomb Raider for example is just sprites that have been warped to the shape of the quads that make up the mesh.

that's true for 2D games as well. Mega Man and the enemies in Mega Man X4 are all quads with a sprite posed on top of them. just how a billboard would work on other 3D systems.
 
Didn't know you could play SFZ3 without the cart on Saturn. Anyway, CPS2 ports even without the cart were better than the PS1 ports.

I don't have much experience with those games, all my information comes from magazine reviews and YouTube comparisons. So i'm not going to die on that hill, if you are so sure about it i'll take your word for it.

It's just odd how you didn't know you could play the game without the cart but somehow you do know it's still better without it.
 
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Afaik retailers earned more for every sold PS1 than the Saturn & N64 and Sony had vertical integration for the CD medium which Sega lacked.
The machine had the odds stacked against it.

truth-is-the-game-was-rigged-from-the-start.png

TBF, NEC had even more vertical integration available to them and were like 3x Sony's size during that period, yet PC-FX was still a catastrophic failure (in large part because they & Hudson Soft simply did zero real work on it for two years after showing off Tetsujin).

So sure while retailers getting a bigger cut per PS1 sold and Sony having vertical integration helped them, those weren't surefire factors that'd enable their success. And they weren't things which SEGA couldn't have planned better around. A better-designed VDP1, VDP2, a possible delay for a single SH3 instead of 2x SH2s, simpler CD-ROM CPU (tho I guess they got a great deal on the SH1 there), better CPU RAM setup and actually finishing the SCU DSP would've been key things to do.

Also seen some people like kool kitty (mainly in a years-old Sega-16 forum thread) suggest SEGA could've taken the SEGA CD's CD subsystem and reused it in Saturn since the controller IC support 2x drive interfaces, so there's that too.

Right. If the launch games were VF2, Sega Rally and Virtua Cop (i assume those are the games you refer to) things would be different for the Saturn.

But it was too late.

If Saturn had its surprise May launch and had those games there, they'd still probably run into a similar problem because the surprise launch itself was rushed to hell and pissed off many major retailers.

Truly, since those three games released at end of 1995 anyway, SOA & SOJ were best off maybe pushing Saturn's American launch to November. A 2-month head start for PS1 wouldn't have been impossible to counter with a November launch if they had VF2, Sega Rally & Virtua Cop present. I do think they might've still eventually created problems longer-term though unless they had some heavy hitters to follow afterwards.

At minimum, they'd still of needed something to counter NFL Gameday, ESPN Xtreme Games, and into early 1996, Resident Evil. But at least a November launch would've given SOA more time to mature SGL ahead of the system's launch, provide better documentation (especially on the SCU DSP), and build up a better support network for developers. Would've helped to get Saturn ports of PS1 games more faithful to the original or even superior in some areas depending on the game, and I'm talking the 3D titles here.

Sega of America created excellent MegaDrive games like Sonic 2, 3 & Knucles, Kid Chameleon and Comix Zone.

On Saturn they produced shit like Ghen War.

TBF, STI produced garbage on the Genesis too like Green Dog, X-Perts and depending on who you ask, Chakan the Forever Man. At best their batting average was probably like 60%, and that's prior to Saturn where it tanked to make 10- 20% at best.

Suspicious Kenan Thompson GIF


They both had Toshinden.


Original Tekken looked like this:
maxresdefault.jpg


Virtua Fighter Remix was shipped to registered Saturn US owners for free and looked like this:
56161--virtua-fighter-remix.png


Sega Rally was better than Ridge Racer:


But was Ridge Racer "good enough" for racing game fans back in 1994/1995 for a brand new home console? Seems the answer is overwhelmingly "yes". Most of the people who considered Daytona better than Ridge Racer were likely hardcore arcade racing game nuts, or competitive racing game players (competitive tournaments for Daytona actually existed back in the early 1990s, but from what I can tell were Japan-only).

An average Joe buying a new 32-bit console back in 1995 just wanted whatever looked like the slickest racing game, and that's an area Daytona on Saturn completely failed at. Ridge Racer looked a lot cooler and visually better right off the bat; it just also happened to be a very fun game even if it lacked Daytona's depth.

Sega did a poor job of catering to the American market. It's not just Sonic. The NFL game they released was a pile of shit, which is crazy considering they made great NFL games on Genesis. Meanwhile Sony made the best NFL game up to that point. Their baseball game was good, but that's probably because Japanese people like baseball too.

Launching with a good NFL game would have done wonders for Saturn in 1995 and maybe kept American buyers happy until VF2/VC/SR arrived.


VF2 on Saturn was great. Nobody denies it. But PSX got Tekken that same year and anyone who had a PSX and wanted a 3D fighter could play that. Tekken was good, maybe not VF2 good but good (unlike BAT). Tekken 2 was great, though, and launched the following year. So even something like VF2 wasn't essential.

That's kind of ultimately what the problem with Saturn in America was: on a week-to-week basis, it just never had enough essential games at a given point of commercial relevance for shoppers of the time, to choose it over the PS1 (and later the N64).

We here on these types of forums make a common mistake of judging systems by the totality of their libraries in hindsight, and the ability to access all of the games through multiple means like fan translations, emulation, widely accessible importing etc., which weren't common options when the Saturn was commercially relevant.

Creative Cat Productions did a Saturn video a bit ago that's worth a watch IMO, tho I don't 100% agree with how they did the random Japanese game picks to make that particular point. Also he clearly doesn't care much for NiGHTS or Panzer Dragoon, but his opinion on those is probably actually in line with what most normal folks who tried them at kiosks back in the day, felt about those games too.



Definitely worth a watch.


This doesn't mean Saturn games didn't have the "texture wobble", it just meant that at times they had less of it.

That was due to the use of quads, which distort less than triangles, and where you don't need to do as much subdivision. That's the basics of it; I believe Saturn also applies a form of projective interpolation, but I could be conflating that with something I've been researching for a spare project of mine.

At the very least, linear interpolation with affine texture mapping (which the Saturn uses) is going to be less distorted on quadrilateral primitives than triangular primitives. But it comes at the cost of calculating an extra vertex per primitive, dealing with potential non-planar primitive vertices, and the Saturn's specific implementation of forward texture mapping which wasted a lot of pixel write bandwidth due to overdraw.
 
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Right. If the launch games were VF2, Sega Rally and Virtua Cop (i assume those are the games you refer to) things would be different for the Saturn.

But it was too late.
People make far too much of the rushed launch , it's line up and apparently how hard the system to program for..

These are issues that never held back the PS2 which cost more than it's rivals was far harder to program for and it's USA launch line up was lacking to that of the Cube, Xbox never mind the DC in the USA

The issue was with SEGA America betting big on the 32X and thinking price alone would win, couldn't work out that many people who started gaming in the 80s were turning into young adults with disposable income and completely bored of 2D gaming.

If SOA wanted to go early they should have gone in Aug 1995 when Bug was ready along with Clockwork Knight 2, VR Remix and if you didn't have the 32X you could add in Star Wars, Doom and VR Deluxe too.

The 32x was the mistake it's split SEGA fans against SEGA fans ,SEGA development resources, budgets and PR and cost SEGA dear .

Plus giving Sonic to SOA to fuck up was a cock -up of epic proportions.Sonic Team should have been mandated to make Sonic on the Saturn.

The Mega Drive should have been dropped in mid 1994
 
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Also, beyond just FF7, gamers in japan were only really interested in JRPGs in the late 90s (and survival horror), N64 had literally almost zero.

Saturn was a bit better in that regard but still not on the level of PS1, though obviously Saturn ironically did better in Japan, by 98 the writing was on the wall and it was all about JRPGs.

Is in fact, given the popularity of FF and Dragon Quest on Famicom and Super Famicom crazy how Nintendo just let that whole audience disappear entirely, not swallow the pill of having a disk format to keep that, but they didn't and N64 bombed in Japan, what on Earth was the salaryman type audience, which was a HUGE part of who was buying games in Japan, even going to be playing with no JRPGs?
 
Also, beyond just FF7, gamers in japan were only really interested in JRPGs in the late 90s (and survival horror), N64 had literally almost zero.

Saturn was a bit better in that regard but still not on the level of PS1, though obviously Saturn ironically did better in Japan, by 98 the writing was on the wall and it was all about JRPGs.

Is in fact, given the popularity of FF and Dragon Quest on Famicom and Super Famicom crazy how Nintendo just let that whole audience disappear entirely, not swallow the pill of having a disk format to keep that, but they didn't and N64 bombed in Japan, what on Earth was the salaryman type audience, which was a HUGE part of who was buying games in Japan, even going to be playing with no JRPGs?

They also had zero interest in FPS games, which N64 had a fee better library than PlayStation and Saturn.

So Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Turok 1/2, Quake 1/2 etc would have likely been huge flops there.
 
you're all showing how young you are cause I saw these graphics at the time and remember thinking it would never get better lmfao...
 
Saturn did much better in Japan because that market loves VF and JRPGs.

US market doesn't care about those games as much.

What really sunk Saturn right from the start were shit sports games. Sonys 989 and EAs were better on PS.

Any big sports fan coming from Genesis had their selection of junk on Saturn like nhl all star hockey, nfl, nba action and their really good baseball game was WS 98. I remember lots of those early Sega sports games getting Ds and Fs in mags.

If you were a sports gamer you went PS.
 
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Saturn did much better in Japan because that market loves VF and JRPGs.

US market doesn't care about those games as much.

What really sunk Saturn right from the start were shit sports games. Sonys 989 and EAs were better on PS.

Any big sports fan coming from Genesis had their selection of junk on Saturn like nhl all star hockey, nfl, nba action and their really good baseball game was WS 98. I remember lots of those early Sega sports games getting Ds and Fs in mags.

If you were a sports gamer you went PS.

True, I mean Saturn had no answer to these…



 
True, I mean Saturn had no answer to these…




Something weird happened because Sega somehow struggled with sports. Maybe it was Saturn, or resources stretched thin but that's no excuse.

Sony figured out to make sports games with a new studio. And EA figured out to make multiplat sports on Saturn, PS and also PC. While Sega Sports games were both junk and didn't even have as many sequels either. Sports games were annualized at that point from the big makers like Sega and EA. Sega dropped off while somehow 989 pumped out more
 
Something weird happened because Sega somehow struggled with sports. Maybe it was Saturn, or resources stretched thin but that's no excuse.

Sony figured out to make sports games with a new studio. And EA figured out to make multiplat sports on Saturn, PS and also PC. While Sega Sports games were both junk and didn't even have as many sequels either. Sports games were annualized at that point from the big makers like Sega and EA. Sega dropped off while somehow 989 pumped out more

Saturn did have Athlete Kings which was graphically gorgeous (similar to VF2) back in the day but had simplistic Track & Field style gameplay.

Was popular nonetheless.

There was also NBA Action 98 late in its life, which was the precursor to the NBA 2K series.
 
As to why it succeeded in Japan and not the west, despite Sega winning the 3rd and 4th console generations in Europe…

- Almost no price difference, ¥39,800 for PlayStation, ¥44,800 for Saturn

- Virtua Fighter was huge in Japan while the west was gripped by Mortal Kombat fever

- Japan didn't care as much for Sonic, so his absence was felt more in the west

- JRPGs were successful on Saturn, they almost never released in Europe due to requiring multiple translations (we never got the Square SNES games). For many in Europe FF7 was their introduction

- 2D shmups were huge in Japanese arcades, most never saw the light of day in the west

- Many of Saturn's big games were arcade ports, the decline of the arcades started earlier in the west than Japan

- Japan got a controller with the GOAT d-pad, the west got the below piece of shit

AC92axPpDSvP033G.jpeg

3rd worst controller ever, top spot is the Atari Jaguar's and 2nd place is the OG Xbox 'Duke'...I remember when I got my Saturn back in the day I was floored how crappy the d-pad and the shoulder buttons were on that controller
 
3rd worst controller ever, top spot is the Atari Jaguar's and 2nd place is the OG Xbox 'Duke'...I remember when I got my Saturn back in the day I was floored how crappy the d-pad and the shoulder buttons were on that controller

Yeah, if you don't hit the shoulder buttons in the right place then they do nothing, and the revised Japanese-style controller didn't do much to improve this aspect.
 
You can have 1000 games that all suck, and 200 games that alone define your library and are great. Which is exactly what happened with Saturn.
Is that exactly what happened? Japan's Saturn catalog has five times as many games as the West, but apparently they "all suck".
Every major title was available in the West. My library was entirely Western and I never felt I needed to import anything. The handful of great Japanese games we didn't get (Grandia, Radiant Silvergun, Bulk Slash, Vandal Hearts) doesn't create a gap from weak to strong. Thus BS.
There it is. You never imported, but you're gonna tell us about the Japanese library.

Not every major title made it to the west. Try Dead or Alive, Metal Slug, Suikoden, Policenauts, Dungeons & Dragons Collection, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter, Shining series, Lunar series, Samurai Showdown III. And then there's Japan's top-tier Saturn shmup library which is too long to list.

The Japanese library has loads of niche titles that may not be 'greats' but they make it much deeper and more interesting. Stronger overall. I'm not saying the western library didn't have excellent games, but it was relatively weak compared to Japan's.
 
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