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[BeEatNU]

For some reason I was expecting a discussion about this...

lol OMG i was trying to remember the name of this

*runs to netflix*

 

[Tieno]

There could be more species of human if we kept isolated for a little while longer and/or stopped fucking people from other regions.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

How isn't it?

What's the purpose of a Luna Moth's life? The poor thing has no mouth, lives for about one week, and doesn't do anything but find another moth and fuck it.

I've always wondered what it is that makes people wonder what their big purpose is, like we all are here for some greater goal. Like miscarried babies have a grand purpose.

How is it?

Just because someone does something--or can do something--doesn't mean it's their purpose.

 

[Tieno]

How is it?

Just because someone does something--or can do something--doesn't mean it's there purpose.

So what's the purpose of a mountain?

The whole debate about a higher purpose is meaningless. On a personal level you define your own meaning and purpose. If there is a puporse on a grander scale it's nothing but fucking to spread genes.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

How is it?

Just because someone does something--or can do something--doesn't mean it's their purpose.

Higher purpose is something your brain is big enough to conceive of but isn't big enough to understand that it's dumb.

I mean, what's the purpose of Mars? Rocks? Aluminum? Bears? Flowers?

 

[Mystic Theurge]

You base instincts are to eat, drink, seek shelter, defend yourself, and fuck, same as a dog, a rat, ant, or anything else that lives. I guess you can pick whichever one you want to be your ultimate purpose, but reproduction seems nobler, at least from a wider perspective. To think it's anything further than that is narcissism. Just because you've evolved a brain capable of (arguably) higher thought doesn't make you any more useful or noble than any other animal. It's great to be able to read Shakespeare, for instance, but that doesn't make any of us anything better than another beast trying to grunt the species into another generation.

Were you trying to refute what I said? Because you didn't.

 

[DragonGirl]

Purpose is a concept created by animals with brains complex enough to waste time on philosophical navel gazing. Humans create purpose and assign it. It begins with us and ends with us. Purpose and function aren't, philosophically, the same thing. Life's function is to perpetuate itself. It does not, however, have a purpose in any higher sense.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

So what's the purpose of a mountain?

The whole debate about a higher purpose is meaningless. On a personal level you define your own meaning and purpose. If there is a puporse on a grander scale it's nothing but fucking to spread genes.

Higher purpose is something your brain is big enough to conceive of but isn't big enough to understand that it's dumb.

I mean, what's the purpose of Mars? Rocks? Aluminum? Bears? Flowers?

Are you guys arguing with someone else? I've said nothing about higher purpose. I only stated that our purpose isn't reproduction.

 

[Kinitari]

How is it?

Just because someone does something--or can do something--doesn't mean it's their purpose.

I think there is some communication errors here. What people are trying to say is that there is no higher purpose other than reproducing. If we do not reproduce, then as a species we then will cease to exist, and so will any self-satisfying purposes we come up with.

If you want to imply that there is a higher purpose than that, could you share it with us? Not being snarky, I am curious. You'll get extra points with me if it's not rooted in anything religious!

Are you guys arguing with someone else? I've said nothing about higher purpose. I only stated that our purpose isn't reproduction.

Ah so you just don't think there is a purpose to humanity? I guess that's fair, procreation can be argued as a purpose, but it's not one I would argue for with any sort of passion.

 

[Raist]

How is it?

Just because someone does something--or can do something--doesn't mean it's their purpose.

I think that if evolution went through the trouble of developing more and more specialized digestive tracts, reproductory organs, immune system, etc etc, a fair conclusion is that the "purpose" of all of this is survival and propagation.

Now the problem is that I suspect your meaning of purpose is completely different.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Are you guys arguing with someone else? I've said nothing about higher purpose. I only stated that our purpose isn't reproduction.

Well we could all just stop fucking and find out what our purpose really is then. We'd have to be fast and learn it within 100 years though.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Were you trying to refute what I said? Because you didn't.

I'm not refuting it, there is no counter-argument, I'm saying you're unequivocally wrong.

 

[Furret]

Are you guys arguing with someone else? I've said nothing about higher purpose. I only stated that our purpose isn't reproduction.

The purpose of life - all life, from house fly to human - is to reproduce and to ensure its genetic traits are passed onto a subsequent generation.

If you want to pretend there is some "higher" purpose then you will have to invent some sort of supernatural mythology to support your claims, or reuse some of the many thousands that have been created over the centuries.

If you want to pretend that our biological purpose isn't reproduction you're going to have to win a Nobel prize for science before anyone takes you seriously.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

I'm not refuting it, there is no counter-argument, I'm saying you're unequivocally wrong.

And yet you still haven't said why.

The purpose of life - all life, from house fly to human - is to reproduce and to ensure its genetic traits are passed onto a subsequent generation.

If you want to pretend there is some "higher" purpose then you will have to invent some sort of supernatural mythology to support your claims, or reuse some of the many thousands that have been created over the centuries.

If you want to pretend that our biological purpose isn't reproduction you're going to have to win a Nobel prize for science before anyone takes you seriously.

Prove that the purpose of life is reproduction.

 

[Kinitari]

On another note, I am considering web 2.0ing this thread up! I wish I could spend more time updating it, unfortunately seems like the only chance I'll really have to get around to it (aka, not at work/out doing other shit) is sometime on the weekend.

So what I propose doing is making an openly shared Google docs/Google wave post that is essentially a copy of the OP - and then people can work on editing it as a group!

Would anyone be willing? Or is this idea just filled with problems?

The biggest problem I see is that, well... Neogaf is not a completely private forum, it's open to the internet public, so tampering with that Google piece is highly probable. So with a Wave I can always 'rewind it'. Or I can just PM the password to the Doc to people willing to contribute to the OP.

Regardless, I'll have my first opportunity in a couple of days to really get in at that OP, tonight after work~!

Prove that the purpose of life is reproduction.

It would really really help if you could define what you mean by 'purpose'? You don't even have to tell us what you think the purpose is.

My contribution? I'll just say that without reproduction, we would have no way of coming up with our own personal 'purposes' so the 'highest purpose' would be to reproduce.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Prove that the purpose of life is reproduction.

Without reproduction there's no life to have a purpose.

This is like one of those existential riddles where finding the right answer makes you want to kill yourself instead of the guy prodding you with the stupid mind games.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

And yet you still haven't said why.

The fact that generation after generation of your ancestors weathered shitty, mostly useless lives just so they could pass their genetic material to someone who could sit and pretend he's serving some nobler purpose saying idiotic things on a message board in 2010 is a testament to the primary role that reproduction plays in all of our lives.

 

[Furret]

And yet you still haven't said why.

Prove that the purpose of life is reproduction.

No, you read a book.

Although you could do worse than start here, if you really haven't listened to a single science class or documentary in your life.

Everything in biology is dedicated to ensuring life can procreate. For many lifeforms that's literally all they can do.

If you're so keen to deny this, perhaps you could enlighten us with what you think is the "purpose" of life.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

The fact that generation after generation of your ancestors weathered shitty, mostly useless lives just so they could pass their genetic material to someone who could sit and pretend he's serving some nobler purpose saying idiotic things on a message board in 2010 is a testament to the primary role that reproduction plays in all of our lives.

Given what I've said, this post makes no sense. In future try responding to what I've stated.

 

[SolarPowered]

Bringing religion back into this.....




It's pretty sensible when you think about it. You have two early societies: One with basic moral constructs brought on my religion ('though shalt not kill' kind of stuff), and one without. People in the first society would be at a survival advantage compared to those in the second.

I've read up a bit on this concept when I was reading Richard Dawkin's "The God delusion". It was pretty interesting to see how religion would survive and spread itself throughout the meme pool because of it's compatibility with the human psyche. It's not surprising when you can see how it helps people build a powerful force not just in numbers, but in moral.

Now I'm feeling the need to read something that goes a into a little more detail regarding memes and how these evolve.

hmm...

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Given what I've said, this post makes no sense. In future try responding to what I've stated.

You haven't stated anything. You're spouting vague, uneducated contrary statements without any clear stance or even sense that you know what you're talking about. If you're expecting a counterpoint, you need to make a point first. Until then, we're just going to keep looking for more eloquent ways of saying "LOL".

 

[Gaborn]

The fact that generation after generation of your ancestors weathered shitty, mostly useless lives just so they could pass their genetic material to someone who could sit and pretend he's serving some nobler purpose saying idiotic things on a message board in 2010 is a testament to the primary role that reproduction plays in all of our lives.

So because heterosexual sex is an enjoyable experience (for at least some of the population) you're asserting that reproduction is the only purpose? What about amoebas, or other animals that reproduce asexually? What about people born sterile, are you suggesting their lives have no purpose? Your entire response here seems rather lazy.

 

[wolfmat]

So because heterosexual sex is an enjoyable experience (for at least some of the population) you're asserting that reproduction is the only purpose? What about amoebas, or other animals that reproduce asexually? What about people born sterile, are you suggesting their lives have no purpose? Your entire response here seems rather lazy.

True.


Mine makes much more sense

 

[Dude Abides]

I think Mystic Theurge has found his special purpose.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

So because heterosexual sex is an enjoyable experience (for at least some of the population) you're asserting that reproduction is the only purpose? What about amoebas, or other animals that reproduce asexually? What about people born sterile, are you suggesting their lives have no purpose? Your entire response here seems rather lazy.

No one's life has a purpose. We're not put here or made for any reason. We're just here. Reproducing is all we can do to create more life. It's the closest thing to a purpose any of us have.

 

[Tntnnbltn]

So because heterosexual sex is an enjoyable experience (for at least some of the population) you're asserting that reproduction is the only purpose? What about amoebas, or other animals that reproduce asexually? What about people born sterile, are you suggesting their lives have no purpose? Your entire response here seems rather lazy.

A more eloquent response would invovle us passing on our genes. This is predominantly through sexual reproduction in humans, but also encompasses caring for and ensuring the well-being of our (usually) genetically-related kin.

 

[Gaborn]

True.


Mine makes much more sense

True, except it's more basic than that I'd say. There is no purpose to our existence and no one cares (at a species level at least, obviously individuals care about other individuals) what happens to us. In 100 years 99% of people will be effectively forgotten by 99% of the people they met in their lives. The illusion of "purpose" is essentially a meaningless comfort we tell ourselves, an opiate to soothe our psyches, much like people use religion to somehow give their life greater meaning than it actually has.

Liu Kang - You beat me to saying it :lol

 

[Mystic Theurge]

No one's life has a purpose. We're not put here or made for any reason. We're just here. Reproducing is all we can do to create more life. It's the closest thing to a purpose any of us have.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

So because heterosexual sex is an enjoyable experience (for at least some of the population) you're asserting that reproduction is the only purpose? What about amoebas, or other animals that reproduce asexually? What about people born sterile, are you suggesting their lives have no purpose? Your entire response here seems rather lazy.

You're being emotional. No, people who can't or don't reproduce have no purpose from an evolutionary standpoint. Does it mean they have no reason to live? Absolutely not, but they serve absolutely no evolutionary purpose. I haven't passed along any genetic material to the next generation, but my life is totally enjoyable and fulfilling, I just don't overemphasize my importance to the point where I can't acknowledge that I am of no evolutionary purpose to my species. We're not special or blessed, we're animals, and it's conceited to think otherwise.

We don't reproduce because sex just happens to be enjoyable, sex is enjoyable because it's biologically necessary.

 

[wolfmat]

Each one of us is entitled to making something his or her own purpose though, if he or she so chooses.

Might be a good idea for some people. I don't really know.

 

[Furret]

Thank you for agreeing with me.

He isn't agreeing with you, you haven't said a single constructive thing in this thread that would be worth agreeing with.

 

[danwarb]

You're being emotional. No, people who can't or don't reproduce have no purpose from an evolutionary standpoint. Does it mean they have no reason to live? Absolutely not, but they serve absolutely no evolutionary purpose. I haven't passed along any genetic material to the next generation, but my life is totally enjoyable and fulfilling, I just don't overemphasize my importance to the point where I can't acknowledge that I am of no evolutionary purpose to my species. We're not special or blessed, we're animals, and it's conceited to think otherwise.

We don't reproduce because sex just happens to be enjoyable, sex is enjoyable because it's biologically necessary.

Yes they do, their genes are carried by close relatives. Worker bees have an evolutionary purpose, yet don't reproduce.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Yes they do, their genes are carried by close relatives. Worker bees have an evolutionary purpose, yet don't reproduce.

People aren't bees. We don't live in a hive. If a segment of the human population was born sterile and simply existed to see to it that the hive survived, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

 

[danwarb]

People aren't bees.

No, but they're nice to, and do more for their relatives than complete strangers.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

He isn't agreeing with you, you haven't said a single constructive thing in this thread that would be worth agreeing with.

You still haven't proved that the purpose of life is reproduction.

You've stated that we can reproduce, but that's really not a big secret.

 

[wolfmat]

Yes they do, their genes are carried by close relatives. Worker bees have an evolutionary purpose, yet don't reproduce.

Bees aren't people. They don't live in a house. If a segment of the bee population was born gay and simply existed to see to it that their gay love dream was fulfilled, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

 

[Raist]

You still haven't proved that the purpose of life is reproduction.

You've stated that we can reproduce, but that's really not a big secret.

You remind me of that lady Dawkins interviewed. Seriously, either explain what you want exactly, or GTFO.


edit:

People aren't bees. We don't live in a hive. If a segment of the human population was born sterile and simply existed to see to it that the hive survived, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Bees aren't people. They don't live in a house. If a segment of the bee population was born gay and simply existed to see to it that their gay love dream was fulfilled, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

WTF, are you guys twins or something?

 

[Kinitari]

Thank you for agreeing with me.

That was your point?! Not trying to tell you what to do man, but if you want people to thoughtfully respond to what you say, you need to be a lot clearer.

 

[JesseZao]

You're being emotional. No, people who can't or don't reproduce have no purpose from an evolutionary standpoint. Does it mean they have no reason to live? Absolutely not, but they serve absolutely no evolutionary purpose. I haven't passed along any genetic material to the next generation, but my life is totally enjoyable and fulfilling, I just don't overemphasize my importance to the point where I can't acknowledge that I am of no evolutionary purpose to my species. We're not special or blessed, we're animals, and it's conceited to think otherwise.

We don't reproduce because sex just happens to be enjoyable, sex is enjoyable because it's biologically necessary.

Interesting thoughts, I'll give you that.

 

[wolfmat]

WTF, are you guys twins or something?

thatsthejoke.jpg

 

[Tntnnbltn]

People aren't bees. We don't live in a hive. If a segment of the human population was born sterile and simply existed to see to it that the hive survived, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

But his actual (human) example wasn't wrong.

Gay men may have 'super uncle' evolutionary advantage: Researchers

It's a question which has troubled science since Darwin: if homosexuality is, at least in part, inherited, how are those genes being passed down to new generations?

Canadian researchers say they have found the first evidence to back up the theory that gay men have the evolutionary advantage of being "super uncles", a way of enhancing the survival prospects of close relatives and — indirectly, at least — making it more likely their genes are passed on.

Paul Vasey, associate professor in the University of Lethbridge's department of psychology, said his research found evidence that gay men may be more willing to support their nieces and nephews financially and emotionally.

The idea is that homosexuals are helping their close relatives reproduce more successfully and at a higher rate by being helpful: babysitting more, tutoring their nieces and nephews in art and music, and helping out financially with things like medical care and education.

The question of whether homosexuality clashes with evolution has puzzled scientists for decades. The trait appears to be inheritable — but because homosexual men are much less likely to produce offspring than heterosexual men, researchers have struggled to explain why the genes for the trait weren't extinguished long ago.

"Maybe it's in this way that they're indirectly passing on at least some of the genes that they're sharing with their kin," he said.

Researchers conducting similar studies in the U.S. and England did not find any supporting evidence for the theory, said Vasey. "So I thought, 'Well, I'll do it in a non-Western culture and chances are I'm going to find exactly the same results and it'll be the nail in the coffin for this hypothesis,'" he said.

Vasey and University of Lethbridge evolutionary psychologist Doug VanderLaan spent time on the Pacific island of Samoa surveying women, straight men and the fa'afafine — men who prefer other men as sexual partners and are accepted within the culture as a distinct third gender category. "Some are so feminine that they pass as women to the naive observer," he said.

Vasey found that the fa'afafine said they were significantly more willing to help kin, yet much less interested in helping children who aren't family — providing the first evidence to support the "kin selection hypothesis."

"We argue that this would allow the fa'afafine to distribute altruism toward their nieces and nephews in a more efficient and adaptive manner compared to men and women," he said.

The findings are published online this week in the journal Psychological Science.

Researchers are now trying to establish whether the fa'afafine's professed willingness to help their kin is reflected in their actions by studying whether they give more money to their relatives. "It's a crude measure, but it's a start," he admitted.

"There is this distinction between willingness to do something and then do they actually do it in the real world," he added. "Research takes time, so we don't have all the answers right away."

Vasey said he was initially shocked by the results, and conducted the questionnaire three times to be certain of the results. "I think I've convinced myself it's real," he said.

Vasey has a few theories about why researchers conducting similar studies in the U.S. and in England found no difference between the way gay men and straight men treat their nieces and nephews. In Samoa, communities are closer geographically and families are more tightly-knit, while North American families are more dispersed, he said. Homosexuality is expressed differently in Western culture — where it's also less accepted, he said.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

You remind me of that lady Dawkins interviewed. Seriously, either explain what you want exactly, or GTFO.

Read page 10. I asked a question and I'm now responding to the people who've responded to my question.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

That was your point?! Not trying to tell you what to do man, but if you want people to thoughtfully respond to what you say, you need to be a lot clearer.

How was I being unclear? Quote the post where I was unclear

 

[Kinitari]

Read page 10. I asked a question and I'm now responding to the people who've responded to my question.

You also seem to be ignoring all requests that you clarify what you are trying to say. If you say "How is reproduction a purpose" - and someone gives you their opinion and you essentially say "That's not what I mean by purpose", you're going to have to clarify. Why aren't the examples of purpose good enough for you? What is purpose to you? Are you trying to say that there is no such thing as a real 'purpose'? Because pretty much everyone here will agree with you, are you trying to say that reproduction can't be considered a purpose? If so, you need to clarify what WOULD constitute a 'purpose' - as that term is abstract enough to have a few different interpretations.

In general, you need to be clearer.

How was I being unclear? Quote the post where I was unclear

What I said above.

 

[curls]

If you're so keen to deny this, perhaps you could enlighten us with what you think is the "purpose" of life.

To become one with the force.

 

[wolfmat]

To become one with the force.

I thought it was posting on NeoGAF. Goddammit

 

[Always-honest]

I think that if evolution went through the trouble of developing more and more specialized digestive tracts, reproductory organs, immune system, etc etc, a fair conclusion is that the "purpose" of all of this is survival and propagation.

Now the problem is that I suspect your meaning of purpose is completely different.

i think shit just happened. no purpose at all. we will be gone in no time (give or take a couple of thousand years.

 

[wolfmat]

I think quite a lot of people are mistaking life gravitating towards self-preservation across generations with implied purpose.

You wouldn't expect an apple falling to the ground having any secret higher calling backing it up, would you?

The world is an assortment of beautiful randoms. It's monkeys writing Shakespeare for realz. Deal with it.

 

[Gaborn]

You're being emotional. No, people who can't or don't reproduce have no purpose from an evolutionary standpoint. Does it mean they have no reason to live? Absolutely not, but they serve absolutely no evolutionary purpose. I haven't passed along any genetic material to the next generation, but my life is totally enjoyable and fulfilling, I just don't overemphasize my importance to the point where I can't acknowledge that I am of no evolutionary purpose to my species. We're not special or blessed, we're animals, and it's conceited to think otherwise.

This strikes me as short sighted and even wrong. Take same sex sexual behavior in animals for example. Dolphins have long been observed to engage in same sex behavior (particularly male dolphins). This serves several purposes, most notably the ability of the male dolphins to form close social bonds for mutual protection. Even if they'll engage in same sex relations with each other, those male dolphins may also meet up with female dolphins for sex, and then together protect their young.

Or, look at rams.Some species of rams consistently show that 10% of their population is gay. While by themselves a gay ram is not going to pass on THEIR genes, while in a herd rams, which have the better defenses (horns) than females, have a better ability to protect other members of that herd. Thus, larger numbers of rams make for slightly safer herds to continue the perpetuation of the species.

We don't reproduce because sex just happens to be enjoyable, sex is enjoyable because it's biologically necessary.

This is only about half right. Sex is enjoyable because enjoying sex was a trait that made a species more likely to continue thus individuals that enjoyed engaging in sex were more likely to pass on their genes. The other way sounds much more deterministic than scientific.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

No, but they're nice to, and do more for their relatives than complete strangers.

And that's a very solid point. I'm not arguing that anyone is useless if they can't reproduce, just that their primary biological drive or purpose (for lack of a better word) is to reproduce.