TheRedRiders
Member
It's a pleasant visual upgrade, but it's definitely not transformative. I'd prefer increases in triangle count and texture resolution as I tend to notice those more.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nearly 7 years later, Ray Tracing still isn’t worth the performance hit nor does it enhance the experience much.
- Thread starter DoubleClutch
- Start date
hyperbertha
Member
This is a lie. Do you make this lie?
phant0m
Member
Been beating this dead horse for 2 years now but I agree. I really wish this gen focused on pushing pixels and frames than RT crap. Everything renders at like 864p then gets upscale and passed though like 3 layers of post-processing
Everyone went AMD this gen again too. Things Radeon is bad at? RT and upscaling.
Should’ve focused on raster performance and just render everything 1440p (native) and 60+ fps
Everyone went AMD this gen again too. Things Radeon is bad at? RT and upscaling.
Should’ve focused on raster performance and just render everything 1440p (native) and 60+ fps
LordOcidax
Member
And the frame gen is going to make everything worse…
Sanepar
Member
I have a 4080 and besides the 3 games i pointed out rt is utterly shit.
Stuff u can't see during gameplay. Stupid reflections will only pay attention if u stop.
Luipadre
Member
Add outlaws and indiana to the list aswell
Sanepar
Member
Indy is a good example of bad implementation imo.
Luipadre
Member
What lol. Even the normal RT lighting looks great, but PT is just on another level
Last edited:
LordOcidax
Member
So having a $2000 PC is the solution for all the problems, is amazing how good the marketing works sometimes…
GPUs makers create a problem a we are the ones that have the solution with our wallets, how convenient is that for one side, meanwhile the majority of people are fucked.Well for one I’ve been enjoying RT for like 5+ years and upgrades my rig while using RT so if it wasn’t worth it why would I go from a 3090 to a 4090?
Yes ray tracing will improve over time like anything cutting edge. Your logic is not working.
The truth is you don’t use RT and haven’t paid for a rig to actually experience or clearly even sat down on a friends rig so you’re completely booty talking about a feature you’ve never used
.I mean companies exist to make money. Nvidia isn’t a non profit. What exactly do you expect? You’re free to not buy it and you don’t suffer bc you can just turn it off and not experience it. No one cares until people start making false statements about how RT sucks or is a scam then ofcourse those of us that actually know better speak up.So having a $2000 PC is the solution for all the problems, is amazing how good the marketing works sometimes…
LordOcidax
Member
Obvious, but with the whole RT bullshit almost everyone except the ones with expensives pcs are fucked, before it was not like that. And the defense force is, this 5 titles looks better and quake 2 and Minecraft… Really.
Last edited:
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
This is not true.
Virtually no game uses RT to the extent that devs don't have to bake lighting and the nature of multiplatform development is such that the lowest common denominator platforms can't handle RT at all and thus still need baked lighting. So even the games making heavy use of RT on top end HW still need a port with fully baked lighting.
It's probably be another two decades before devs can do fully RT lighting in games exclusively across all platforms. But by then some ingenious dev would have worked out some AI model that computes/infers direct and indirect lighting at a fraction of the compute cost of RT and produces results that are "good enough" for most games.
Last edited:
KeepThemEyesOpen
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
UE5 games no longer have to bake in lighting.
There are other games out there like star wars outlaws and avatar that dont have a non-RT solution to fall back on.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Is this thread console gamers complaining about something they can't have, or PC gamers complaining about something they can turn off? I'm kind of confused.
LordOcidax
Member
We are complaining about a tech is not ready for the public yet…
Bitstream
Member
RT and PT in games can be absolutely transformative, and has the capability of evolving the visuals from video-game like to a CG movie. Problem is it requires a ridiculous amount of resources to be able to achieve in real time which leads to games running at super low base resolutions and then using upscaling to try and quadruple the resolution and frame generation to make up for the low FPS.
Well done baked lighting can get you 90% of the way there while still having really good image quality and performance.
Ideally next gen we'll have the hardware needed to path trace every game, but with more and more whispers of 'low cost' alternative options coming from PS and MS and the fact that cross gen is dragging longer and longer, this dream may never become a reality.
Well done baked lighting can get you 90% of the way there while still having really good image quality and performance.
Ideally next gen we'll have the hardware needed to path trace every game, but with more and more whispers of 'low cost' alternative options coming from PS and MS and the fact that cross gen is dragging longer and longer, this dream may never become a reality.
FunkMiller
Member
Agreed. Biggest emperor’s new clothes in gaming. Genuinely struggle to see much of a difference while playing.
They need to concentrate on pushing gameplay technologies forward more, not this superfluous visual shit.
They need to concentrate on pushing gameplay technologies forward more, not this superfluous visual shit.
Hohenheim
Member
Wow. That's harsh.
but good for you, I guess. If you play at lower resolutions too, that 4080 will last you a very long time with RT turned off in every game except those three.
Schmendrick
Member
I guess by "public" you mean the consoles or rather AMD hardware in general because even a lowly 3080 can already provide decent fps in something like CP2077's PT mode and the 5xxx line's release is imminent.
Last edited:
tkscz
Member
Honestly, I can't disagree with this. The only way to get it to look amazing is to spend thousands of dollars and it still takes a performance hit.
Yes it makes some games look great but not to the point where I'm willing to drop so much money for it.
Plus GI is getting better, even if some of it is pre-baked or using tricks.
Ray-tracing is one of those things that is nice to look at but at the end of the day, it's not the biggest impact if you don't care that much about graphics.
Yes it makes some games look great but not to the point where I'm willing to drop so much money for it.
Plus GI is getting better, even if some of it is pre-baked or using tricks.
Ray-tracing is one of those things that is nice to look at but at the end of the day, it's not the biggest impact if you don't care that much about graphics.
Rockondevil
Member
I have it on almost every time I can and I enjoy it. I don’t need it and if there was something else that was better I’d rather the performance go to that but my 4070 TI can take it so why not.
And I do play MC a bit and it kicks ass in that.
And I do play MC a bit and it kicks ass in that.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
That doesn't really answer the question.
Thebonehead
Gold Member
I'm old enough to be impressed by this bit of ray tracing. If you know then you know.
Of course Ray tracing is worth it. I'm so glad we live in a time where Indiana / Cyberpunk at full pelt is something to behold
Of course Ray tracing is worth it. I'm so glad we live in a time where Indiana / Cyberpunk at full pelt is something to behold
Last edited:
Hohenheim
Member
Well of course.
Ray tracing is obviously for folks who care a lot about graphics. Then the investment in a juicy GPU is worth it.
Just like with everything in life, some stuff are worth it for some folks and not for others.
I wouldn't bother getting a Lamburghini (or other expensive cars) even if I could afford one, because i'm not very interested in cars.
LordOcidax
Member
You are proving my point
.Schmendrick
Member
That RT is not something for low budget 2020 AMD hardware?You are proving my point
Last edited:
LordOcidax
Member
This thread speak for itself…
Schmendrick
Member
This thread is a retarded generalisation full of people who have no idea what RT can do if it runs on decent hardware....
I blame the marketing for that.
Last edited:
LordOcidax
Member
Meanwhile the steam stats says that 95% of gamers doesn’t have a capable PC to run RT games well… So, we are the majority. And i agree with you, is the worst marketing ever.
Zathalus
Member
What’s well? A 4060 Ti is perfectly capable of running RT in games at 1080p. A 4070 is fine at 1440p. Based on that over 20% of Steam can run RT just fine, assuming they are not hooking up a 4K monitor to a 4060 Ti or 3070. But in that case running at a lower resolution is not impossible.
Schmendrick
Member
Around 20% have a 3070 level card or higher according to current steam stats..
And with steams user numbers that's easily more RT ready systems than we've got Xboxes around, probably even beats the PS5's install base.....
That's a very, very, decent userbase to provide good RT for and it's an absolutely ridiculous notion to try to dismiss such a large audience.
Last edited:
LordOcidax
Member
I have an 4070 12 Gb and i feel like a poor man blessed by the God DLSS, when i got my 970 and no of this trash was around and i was God.
Schmendrick
Member
And what's your point? No tech can just forever progress linearly without putting more and more effort/power/complexity into it, that's just the nature of tech in general.
You're not gonna pretend graphics from that era are comparable to what we can do now, are you? I didn't even dare to dream about an open world with PT like CP2077 back then.
Last edited:
Walter Matthau
Member
I’ve never heard anyone in my personal life mention RT in any context, good or bad. Then again, I only know a couple people who I’d consider hardcore gamers.
It’ll get better as developers learn what to do with it and more cards are capable of running it without as big of a tradeoff.
It’ll get better as developers learn what to do with it and more cards are capable of running it without as big of a tradeoff.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Lumin IS a baked lighting solution. They use pre-computed lighting data to do dynamic global illumination.
Schmendrick
Member
Baked lighting refers to baked in Lightmaps, and that is not what lumen is doing...
LordOcidax
Member
My point is that i feel that we are going backward in terms of performance and image quality due the RT…
Last edited:
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Turn it off?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
There are no light maps texture data included in UE5 games. thats why their sizes are so small compared to other games with baked lighting solutions that have to ship texture data for different light sources.
multiple devs have talked about how not waiting for baking in reflections, shadows and light helps them iterate faster. Callisto is a good example of this. DF showed how last gen versions simply lack many reflections and shadows because it was a game built on next gen platforms using RT reflections and shadows and they didnt bother with reflections or shadows in many different areas.
Insomniac talked about how Spiderman 2 shipped with nearly 33gb of lighting texture data. And how it would take days for them to bake in the lighting every time they changed something.
Last edited:
Zathalus
Member
970, Witcher 3 1080p High, 60fps.
4070, Cyberpunk 2077, RT Ultra, 1440p DLSS quality + FG, 100fps.
LordOcidax
Member
That’s the problem, before we had better baked lightning than now, especially for new games.
Schmendrick
Member
right now RT is 99% optional so since you can just as well ignore it and turn it off you kinda don't have a point at all.....
And by the time it really starts to become broadly mandatory, probably with the first next Gen only games, we'll have another 2-3 graphics hardware generations under our belt.
you mean we had generally smaller and even more linear and static games.
Last edited:
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Not necessarily. When we say "baked lighting" in the context of it being versus RT, we're using it as a catch all term to encompass all raster-based lighting techniques using pre-computed lighting data. So light maps, pre-computed light probes, SVOGI etc etc.
Zathalus
Member
Neither Lumen nor SVOGI rely on pre-computed lighting data. Both are a form of voxel based ray traced lighting. Although Lumen mixes in some screen space techniques. Lumen can use pre-calculated data for static parts of the scene to speed up rendering, but it is not a requirement.
Crayon
Member
Wouldn't it make just as much sense if the people who can't see the point don't bother to spend the extra money? I think rt is neat but I'm not going to double the spend on my gpu to turn it on when in most games it's hard to tell the difference and the few good ones take way more gpu than you would otherwise need to run at the same res and framerate.
Sanepar
Member
Man, come on, i have a 4080 and even that is not capable of decent RT on games that matter with path tracing.