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[Pancakes]

Just wanted to drop in and say that we discovered this show in the last 2 weeks. So good. My daughter loves it, and I'm not ashamed to say I'm enjoying it.

And no, I'm not turning in my man card .

Also I started reading this thread from start, I'm only 40 pages in but my god the laughs.

Glad to hear both you and your daughter like the show man .

Welcome to the club.

 

[DrForester]

Celestia predicted and manipulated Twilight's friendships with the mane cast.

Celestia predicted and likely manipulated Nightmare Moon's escape.

By giving Twilight false prophecy and then hiding in the Sun, Celestia manipulated Twilight into attacking Nightmare Moon, who hadn't even done anything.

Celestia caused the Nightmare Moon situation in the first place by being insensitive to Luna's emotional needs. And Celestia's eventual solution was getting someone to beat Luna up and make her cry.


Characterizing Celestia as being somewhat insensitive and something of a fun-loving troll, with no real malice behind her actions, and with regret for her mistakes, is actually complimentary, and makes her a much more interesting character than some perfect Princess/Queen who cries herself to sleep every night because her jealous little sister hates her. Twilight being so powerful finally gave her the chance to free her sister.

I'm glad canon is on my side.

I still think prankster is a better term than troll, because troll implies ill-will. As far as Nightmare Moon goes, if we wanted to over-analyze it, I'd say that Celestia had to get someoen else to help her sister. The hatred Nightmare Moon had for her would not have allowed Celestia herself to turn her back, she needed someone else to defeat her.



Professor Celestia Time

Episodes 1-2, "Friendship is Magic"
- Having Twilight go to Ponyville under the pretext of "making friends", when her real goal was to gather the "Elements of Harmony". Myke's Likeliness Score: 100% (it's canon)
- Deliberately disappearing by her own volition during the Summer Sun Celebration to set the stage for Nightmare Moon's appearance, Twilight and company's quest, and the confrontation at the old castle, reappearing when her sister had already been brought to her knees. MLS: 50% (it's possible because Nightmare Moon never mentions Celestia's absence)

See above.

Episode 3, "The Ticket Master"
- Sending Twilight only 2 tickets on purpose, to make her learn a lesson about sharing. MLS: 70% (there's always the possibility that this was standard for the invitations that were sent, and the formal tone of the message read by Spike seems to point that way, but I find it hard to believe that Celestia wouldn't send Twilight a personalized invitation)
- Sending Spike a ticket only after the mane cast had theirs. MLS: 50% (I actually think Celestia is sometimes a bit absent-minded and briefly forgot about Spike)

I think she expected Twilight to take Spike. If we take the episodes to be in chronological order, it's entirely possible that she didn't know enough about Twilight's friends to know if they would want to go. And it's not Celestia's fault Twilight didn't just ask for more tickets in the first place.

Episode 10, "Swarm of the Century"
- Knowing all about parasprites, and arranging for an invasion just as she was scheduled to visit Ponyville. MLS: 20% (her astonishment at Pinkie's stunt seems to point away from this, even though the coincidence of a similar infestation occurring simultaneously elsewhere is suspicious)

There's no way to know if Celestia knew. Phillydelphia contacted her, but we don't know if the Mare of Ponyville did. Also, her reaction at the Parasprite that landed on her wing kind of implies she may never have encountered one before.

Episode 15, "Feeling Pinkie Keen"
- Dropping out of the sky to scare Spike. MLS: 50% (this was hilarious, but she could have been just passing by and took the chance to pick that message)

Stopping by to visit is trolling now?

Episode 16, "Sonic Rainboom"
- Having the sun burn Rarity's wings, making her fall to her death. MLS: 10% (I refuse to accept that Celestia would do something that put someone's life in danger strictly for her own amusement, unless there were actually other intentions behind this act)

She could have intervened at any time, but gave Rainbow chance to prove herself.

Episode 22, "A Bird in the Hoof"
- Intentionally omitting the fact that Philomena is a Phoenix, making Fluttershy despair when the bird turns to ashes on her hooves. MLS: 40% (she couldn't have predicted that Fluttershy would forcibly try to nurse Philomena back to health... could she?)

Knowing about Fluttershy from Twilights letters, Celestia could have easily assumed that Fluttershy knew what she was looking at. The "She's quite a sight" comment was an in-joke she thought Fluttershy got. And like Ticketmaster, it's not her fault that Fluttershy never asked.

Episode 26, "The Best Night Ever"
- Ruining the Grand Galloping Gala by bringing in six strong-willed ponies with high expectations who were all maladjusted to Canterlot's high society. MLS: 90% (the only question about this is, did the disruption go too far beyond what Celestia had planned?)

Screw those stuckup ponies in Canterlot. They ruined everyone's night.

 

[OMG Aero]

I still think prankster is a better term than troll, because troll implies ill-will. As far as Nightmare Moon goes, if we wanted to over-analyze it, I'd say that Celestia had to get someoen else to help her sister. The hatred Nightmare Moon had for her would not have allowed Celestia herself to turn her back, she needed someone else to defeat her.

Or maybe Celestia couldn't defeat Nightmare Moon because she doesn't have any friends.

 

[DrForester]

Or maybe Celestia couldn't defeat Nightmare Moon because she doesn't have any friends.

Well, she did at one point anyways, because she used the Elements before.


Wow... that's sad to think about...

 

[Cheerilee]

[Celestia's rap sheet]

You missed these two.

Episode 22, "A Bird in the Hoof"
- Pinkie Pie blurts out "You gonna eat that?" and chomps a cupcake Celestia was lifting to her mouth with telekinesis and just about to eat. Celestia does some sort of narrow-eyed grinning troll face and sits there watching Pinkie eat the cupcake until someone desperately removes Pinkie. Troll score: 50-100%? You can't really know what she's thinking, but she clearly welcomes Pinkie's intrusion.

- Party hosts are waiting on Celestia, refilling her cup as soon as it's empty. Celestia finds this irritating. She pretends to drink, and watches as they accidentally overfill her cup and cause a mess. "Gotcha!" Troll score: 100% Servants are her playthings.

Episode 16, "Sonic Rainboom"
- Having the sun burn Rarity's wings, making her fall to her death. MLS: 10% (I refuse to accept that Celestia would do something that put someone's life in danger strictly for her own amusement, unless there were actually other intentions behind this act)

I agree that I can't see her trying to harm/kill Rarity, but "wings + horn = god" in Ponyville, and Rarity sure thought she was a god, as did everyone in the audience, which would have to have been a VERY unsettling experience for the only actual Pony-god in attendance. And it was the Sun that put Rarity in her place, and the Sun is Celestia's thing. The Sun is her cutie mark. The Sun is her life. I could accept even a simple excuse, like that the Sun got brighter/hotter in response to Celestia's heightened emotions.

Also, Rarity can't have been in any real danger of

Spoiler

unintended

death with Celestia on hand. Celestia's surely faster than Rainbow Dash and the Wonderbolts, and she was the only winged Pony on hand with telekinesis. She wouldn't have to worry about getting KO'ed like the Wonderbolts did. She wouldn't even have to get close. She could probably have caught Rarity without spilling her popcorn. Actually, I imagine she's probably also physically strong enough to laugh off a hoof to the face.

And now that I think about it, a harsh smackdown of Rarity for her insolence fits with the harsh punishment she leveled against Luna for dereliction of duty, and Twilight's fear that Celestia was going to harshly punish Fluttershy. If Twilight doesn't believe in the first two, she has to have seen other indications to make her think that way.

Celestia doesn't seem like the type who ever gets mad, but that's kind of impossible. Everyone gets mad sometimes. I'm thinking that on the rare occasion when she gets mad, she loses control and gets REALLY mad.

I still think prankster is a better term than troll, because troll implies ill-will.

Yeah, I've never been a fan of the exaggerated "Trollestia".

As far as Nightmare Moon goes, if we wanted to over-analyze it, I'd say that Celestia had to get someoen else to help her sister. The hatred Nightmare Moon had for her would not have allowed Celestia herself to turn her back, she needed someone else to defeat her.

Yeah, she needed to set someone up as the bad guy, so she could swoop in and play good cop. She had to find a way to trick Luna into loving her again.

Well, she did at one point anyways, because she used the Elements before.

When Celestia used the Elements, they were clearly rocks. Like Pinkemena's friends.

 

[tiff]

but we got killed by a guy who apparently used the episodes as timing in TF2- he'd play it in the background, and whenever something specific happened he knew it was time to start pushing a control point.

Ahahaha that's neat.

 

[DrForester]

And now that I think about it, a harsh smackdown of Rarity for her insolence fits with the harsh punishment she leveled against Luna for dereliction of duty, and Twilight's fear that Celestia was going to harshly punish Fluttershy. If Twilight doesn't believe in the first two, she has to have seen other indications to make her think that way.

Whole thing reminded me of Harry Potter (even more because a Phoenix was involved). Whenever Harry screwed up, he always feared that Dumbledore was going to do the worst things as punishment. It's just a fear of screwing up to the person to respect most.

 

[Myke Greywolf]

I still think prankster is a better term than troll, because troll implies ill-will. As far as Nightmare Moon goes, if we wanted to over-analyze it, I'd say that Celestia had to get someoen else to help her sister. The hatred Nightmare Moon had for her would not have allowed Celestia herself to turn her back, she needed someone else to defeat her.

You are right, of course, my good doctor. Blame it on my imperfect grasp of the english language. I edited my previous post accordingly.

I think she expected Twilight to take Spike. If we take the episodes to be in chronological order, it's entirely possible that she didn't know enough about Twilight's friends to know if they would want to go. And it's not Celestia's fault Twilight didn't just ask for more tickets in the first place.

If so, would it really make sense to remember Spike at first, and then just giving him a ticket as a second thought near the end of the episode?

Knowing about Fluttershy from Twilights letters, Celestia could have easily assumed that Fluttershy knew what she was looking at. The "She's quite a sight" comment was an in-joke she thought Fluttershy got.

That's pretty smart, I never thought it that way, but it makes all sense.

Or maybe Celestia couldn't defeat Nightmare Moon because she doesn't have any friends.

Another really intriguing thought. But I would guess that Celestia has enough power to wield them, and the harmony of friendship is only needed to compensate for the normal ponies' lesser magical power.

 

[Narag]

Or maybe Celestia couldn't defeat Nightmare Moon because she doesn't have any friends.

Post of the thread as far as the actual show is concerned.

 

[Adelor Lyon]

Since we're discussing the show again (~yay~) and I don't know if this was discussed back in the day, but regarding Winter Wrap Up: It's an Earth pony tradition. Fine. Magic isn't allowed in the festivities because Earth ponies don't have magic. Okay. Earth ponies don't have flight, either. So why are Pegasi allowed to use their wings but Unicorns not their magic? What's special about magic being disallowed but not flight? And on that note, assuming Pegasi didn't live Earthside when the tradition was created, how did the Earth ponies clean the sky and help the birds migrate back before there were Pegasi living Earthside?

While I think it'd be neat if Season 2 had an episode detailing pony history and how the three "races" came to be, I worry putting too much detail and lore into the show will bog it down and make it less appealing for its "true" target market, and that might move away from the show's "intro, conflict, resolution-via-friendship" format that works so well every episode. That said, I think kids are way smarter than most cartoons treat them and would probably enjoy the history and world building.

Also semi on-topic, Aero put this awesome WWU Remix in the playlist for Synchtube.
Here's another awesome WWU Remix & Gala Crossover.

 

[Pandaman]

Since we're discussing the show again (~yay~) and I don't know if this was discussed back in the day, but regarding Winter Wrap Up: It's an Earth pony tradition. Fine. Magic isn't allowed in the festivities because Earth ponies don't have magic. Okay. Earth ponies don't have flight, either. So why are Pegasi allowed to use their wings but Unicorns not their magic? What's special about magic being disallowed but not flight? And on that note, assuming Pegasi didn't live Earthside when the tradition was created, how did the Earth ponies clean the sky and help the birds migrate back before there were Pegasi living Earthside?

it can be assumed via some comments on the everfree forest that Pegasus ponies have been running the weather and seasons for a fairly long time and that this has been true across the whole of equestrian civilization.

besides, tradition cannot speak to things that would have been impossible for an earth pony to do. how could it be tradition to change the seasons like an earth pony if earth ponies cant change the seasons? by comparison, twilights magic was taking the place of work earth ponies would otherwise have been capable of doing.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

I love crackpot Celestia theories. The one I'm toying with now is that she pulled strings in the background to get the six ponies with unique talents that saw the sonic rainboom together in Ponyville at the exact right time. Fluttershy has the stare, Twi is Twi, Pinkie has precognition, Rainbow is the only pony to ever do the sonic rainboom. AJ and Rarity are more difficult, perhaps because we haven't seen a similar feat from them yet, but AJ at least is established as being a pretty good athlete. It was Velestia that ensured they would all be in Ponyville at the same time- she got RD kicked out of flight school, then secured her a government job working on the weather there, gave a similar job toFluttershy, ensured that Rarity,s career, promising as it was, didn't lure her away to Canterlot, sent Twi there on the day of the summer sun celebration, and arranged for the cakes to adopt Pinkie.

 

[Captain Fish]

All these comics have had me thinking about the first 2 episodes. As much as I've come to enjoy the Pilot episode(s), it seems like a difficult tale to follow up with Luna as a normal cast member. I'm really looking forward to see how they handle Luna's return, specifically if they'll recount her reasons for the falling out.

I feel like a lot of people like Luna, and cast Celestia as overreacting in the Nightmare Moon situation, because all we know is that Luna got jealous. We've seen a lot of jealousy between members of the mane cast, and it always fails to break up friends. Do we really believe it could break up sisters? Not really.

Instead of placing all the blame on Luna, we attribute some of it to Celestia. Maybe she did steal the spotlight, maybe she did ignore Luna's feelings, maybe she did overreact in banishing her. It makes both characters more interesting. Celestia is more than just a perfect princess, and Luna is not just a jealous judgmental jealous jealousy pants. It's actually a much more moderate situation than what is literally depicted*: Luna as being bitter and jealous and Celestia as being accommodating and kind.

*It's worth noting that it's a legend not a historic retelling, so the tale at the beginning of episode 1 is not going to be nuanced.

 

[ZealousD]

i made a pony

i named her twilight sporkle

 

[Deleted member 10571]

I think similar to Myke regarding Celestias conciousness of many situations, she seems to be pretty lightheaded at times. Maybe she just didn't notice Lunas downfall until it was too late and there was no other way?

Also: <3 <3 @ Twilight Sporkle

 

[ZealousD]

ponkie pie

 

[Nishastra]

Ponkie Pie looks like she needs some sleep.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

I just lost it completely live on camera, thanks to Porkie Pie. Oh god.

"Why won't anyone come to my party?"

 

[Captain Fish]

More like Ponkamona.

 

[careksims]

ponkie pie

SAVED!

 

[ZealousD]

flottershy

 

[Nishastra]

Flottershy is pretty.

 

[ZealousD]

rainbow dosh

 

[Songbird]

Rainbow Dosh is the best one.

 

[Confused101]

Crackpot Celestia theories... I like it.

First theory. Celestia has no friends. The tale says she used the Elements of Harmony to banish Nightmare Moon. Why didn't she use the elements to cure her sister of the evil that had taken hold like Twilight and her friends did? That's because you need the magic of friendship to use the elements properly. Celestia never had that. Instead of relieving Luna of her curse, Celestia had no choice but to banish her.

Second theory. Nightmare Moon's imprisonment did not have a set time limit. I'm going by the non-canon comic that was recently released. Celestia simply could not find a way to break Nightmare Moon's influence on Luna. She would talk to Luna on a consistent basis hoping her sister would break the chains but it was not to be. It took 1,000 years for the correct pieces to fall into place. The signs were all there and they began with a Sonic Rainboom. After many years of planning, Celestia devised her plan and it worked. She commissioned specific ponies of Ponyville to each perform a certain task for the celebration and then had Twilight round them all up. Knowing Twilight's fierce loyalty to her, it was a sure bet that Twilight and company would confront Nightmare Moon and do what Celestia alone could not. When Luna was finally free, Celestia showed up and feigned anger towards her sister to remind Luna that her jealousy was and will always be frowned upon. However, forgiveness came easy for the princess who was simply overjoyed that her true sister had been returned to her.

I'm just makin' this stuff up as I go.

 

[ZealousD]

Bakphoon made this in the chat

Dorpy Hooves

 

[Songbird]

I need to get on chat, then.

 

[ZealousD]

Applejock

 

[Songbird]

Applejock

Applejock endorses these delicious Apple Socks.

 

[ZealousD]

Another one by Bakphoon

I have no idea what's going on here.

 

[Nishastra]

Whatever it is, Belle doesn't seem pleased.

 

[tiff]

you'd think Panda would be on top.

 

[ZealousD]

roraty

 

[Songbird]

I wanted to draw a Spork, but I can't even draw badly deliberately.

 

[ZealousD]

SPIKEDOR THE FRIENDINATOR

Check out all his majesty

 

[Songbird]

For this masterwork, you are awarded some cool shades.

 

[Firehead]

SPIKEDOR THE FRIENDINATOR

http://i.imgur.com/Exetl.gif[img]

Check out all his majesty[/quote]

Haha! That one works so well.

 

[Uchip]

A beefy arm for good measure

 

[Songbird]

A beefy arm for good measure

He's a wingaling dragon.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

A beefy arm for good measure

He made a peephole into Rarity's bathroom and that's the result?

 

[Firehead]

Oh, wow. Didn't notice you without your avatar, cheezmo! I like the new Belle Eve take on it.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Thank Bufbaf for it.

:3

 

[DrForester]

Crackpot Celestia theories... I like it.

First theory. Celestia has no friends. The tale says she used the Elements of Harmony to banish Nightmare Moon. Why didn't she use the elements to cure her sister of the evil that had taken hold like Twilight and her friends did? That's because you need the magic of friendship to use the elements properly. Celestia never had that. Instead of relieving Luna of her curse, Celestia had no choice but to banish her.

Because that's not what the Elements of harmony did. Twilight and her friends used the Elements to defeat Nightmare Moon, just as Celestia did. Defeating is not the same thing as redemption. Celestia used the Elements in the same way as Twilight. Celestia forgiving Luna is what redeemed Luna, and even then, it was Luna's choice. Twilight and the Elements didn't do that, they just defeated Nightmare Moon. Luna made a different choice 1000 years ago. Probably because she was defeated by the person she was bitter towards, it just made the bitterness worse.

And for the top of this page.

 

[Neki]

Trollestia has no friends may be the best post in this thread ever, LOL.

 

[Uchip]

Trollestia has no friends may be the best post in this thread ever, LOL.

you're a trollestia

 

[Neki]

you're a trollestia

I'm a make believe queen who rules a make believe land who passes the time by trolling my lovely citizens?

 

[Uchip]

I'm a make believe queen who rules a make believe land who passes the time by trolling my lovely citizens?

I duno
I see the whole "trollestia" thing as an attempt by older fans to make it seem more mature somehow

 

[Neki]

I duno
I see the whole "trollestia" thing as an attempt by older fans to make it seem more mature somehow

no, I genuinely believe she's a jerk. Though it may make her an interesting character, regardless of that, she comes off as a huge pain the ass.

edit: frick Rammus is on sale, but RP only. god I hate LoL.

 

[Uchip]

no, I genuinely believe she's a jerk. Though it may make her an interesting character, regardless of that, she comes off as a huge pain the ass.

...or its just a simple prankster archetype
the MLP fandom would be less weird to me if people liked the show for what it is
and not making it out to be something else entirely

 

[Neki]

gosh uchip, I'm sorry that I interpret the character differently from you. prankster and troll are really the same thing in most cases. just because she may not act out of malice doesn't make it her any less annoying about it.