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[Tevious]

Wow, so it might not be Sony fault if Paypal kept the money and Sony did not receive anything ?

Sounds like OP MIGHT have an issue with PayPal ?

PayPal reversed the charge. The money went back into my PayPal account. I contacted PlayStation Customer Service a few weeks ago about that and they had me buy another $50 PSN card (that I got off amazon this time), and they applied the funds of the PSN Card to my PSN account and unbanned my account. I had the money in my PayPal account transferred back to my bank.

Now I've been suddenly banned again and it could be related to the PayPal issue, I don't know. Customer Service didn't provide me with any details as to why my account was banned other than violation of terms of service.

 

[harrypmgaga]

If you had $3k worth of games then surely, if you can no longer remember the log-in info or reset the password via e-mail, you can prove ownership via purchase history details. It may take some doing at this point but if you can prove ownership then you can get your account unbanned and just cop the nine-week restricted functionality period that is applied to chargeback cases these days in lieu of denying access entirely. That being said, if you've since started another Steam account there's little value in retrieving the old one, I suppose, as it's not possible to transfer games between accounts.



Valve stopped outright banning Steam accounts almost 18 months ago. Even if PayPal did take it upon itself to initiate a chargeback on your behalf without confirmation, in the here and now, the worst case scenario is that you'd need to wait nine weeks before you can purchase/activate another game. I mean, fair enough if you'd rather protect yourself against that possibility, of course -- my point is simply that people no longer lose access to their Steam accounts.

This was ~2+ years ago. Valve have been completely unhelpful via support (as have PayPal, as you can imagine). My account is 100% banned.

 

[JaseC]

This was ~2+ years ago. Valve have been completely unhelpful via support (as have PayPal, as you can imagine). My account is 100% banned.

Which would be why I said it'd probably take some doing at this point to find something you could submit as proof of ownership. E-mail receipts would be the most obvious candidate but beyond that you'd be looking at bank statements or retail copies and receipts.

 

[Chariot]

No defence of Sony, this is bullshit, however, PayPal is a fucking shit show, they're like the internet mafia, really awful.

Sorry, to drift up a bit, but could you tell me more. I am honstely not aware of PayPal going bad since everything worked fine with me. So i like to know what happens so I can be prepared in the future.

 

[the_batman]

What's surprising is how people still use them after so many horror stories of them locking accounts and funds for months on end for no reason...

And now they've started to do charge backs without even asking the account holder.

this could be the way they do things now because of people manipulating and using the service illegally or something. a small group of people always mess it up for everyone else.

 

[harrypmgaga]

Which would be why I said it'd probably take some doing at this point to find something you could submit as proof of ownership. E-mail receipts would be the most obvious candidate but beyond that you'd be looking at bank statements or retail copies and receipts.

I can prove I own the account, heck I even have the original un/pw. What I can't do is make Valve budge on it

 

[JaseC]

I can prove I own the account, heck I even have the original un/pw. What I can't do is make Valve budge on it

When was the last time you contacted Valve about having the account unlocked? If it was between now and February 2013 did you mention the fact that chargebacks no longer result in accounts being locked out but instead they're placed in a restricted state for nine weeks? A long-winded request that you'd like to regain access to the account, complete with proof of ownership and an explanation that you'd be willing to accept the nine-week restriction period in addition to no longer being able to use the PayPal account for purchases (cards are blacklisted if they're used for chargebacks so presumably the same is true of PayPal) should do the trick.

Edit: Err, 2013, not 2012. Fixed.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

That m&m money is gonna fuck us so hard.

 

[Bomber Bob]

Jesus fuck paypal

what an horrible company

 

[kasane]

Jesus fuck paypal

what an horrible company

I still currently use them

You guys have any alternatives? They really have a convenient system in place :C

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

All I can say is Sonys customer service was absolutely useless for me. They banned me for somebody else hacking my account, couldn't access my collection for a month.

 

[theusedversion]

So what can we do to help, OP? This is precisely what GAF should bring attention to not only because it's a shitty practice but because it might protect future gaffers from suffering the same fate. I would be devastated if I lost all of my PSN games so I feell for you. GAF could bring attention to this pretty easily if we try. That's what we're here for right? So how can I help?'

 

[KnockOneOff]

From your story I can see how you may have been banned untill investigation

This is exactly the reason I will never go towards a digital future, the power of ownership can easily be taken away from your hands, that's why I say you never really own it

 

[dex3108]

Jesus fuck paypal

what an horrible company

They are horrible company because they want to protect customers and company from frauds? This way they are probably preventing hundreds frauds daily but sometimes they are wrong. Yes they could improve their system with notification email that will inform user about chargeback but Sony should communicate better with their customers too. Banning users from their content without explaining why they did it and without opportunity for customer to tell his side of story is unacceptable.

 

[dark10x]

It's in the TOS though if you hack you loose access the games. Unless I'm mistaken.'

It really should not be. That's kind of a huge issue.

 

[danthefan]

They are horrible company because they want to protect customers and company from frauds? This way they are probably preventing hundreds frauds daily but sometimes they are wrong. Yes they could improve their system with notification email that will inform user about chargeback but Sony should communicate better with their customers too. Banning users from their content without explaining why they did it and without opportunity for customer to tell his side of story is unacceptable.

Wanted to say exactly this. I got scammed on eBay before and PP resolved the issue for me and got my money back, which was really excellent for me. I really sympathise with the OP, sounds like it is completely not his/her fault, and it's a real shame some legitimate customers get caught up in their policies that are designed to prevent fraud.

Hope it all gets resolved.

 

[Tevious]

They are horrible company because they want to protect customers and company from frauds? This way they are probably preventing hundreds frauds daily but sometimes they are wrong. Yes they could improve their system with notification email that will inform user about chargeback but Sony should communicate better with their customers too. Banning users from their content without explaining why they did it and without opportunity for customer to tell his side of story is unacceptable.

I think I received an email right away, I wasn't able to verify my account before they did the charge-back because I was having trouble with their verification system. They kept giving me an error when I tried to use my phone to receive an automatic call. They insisted my phone was a cell phone (it was at one time, now its MagicJack) and for some retarded reason wouldn't allow me to receive an automatic call to get the code they needed. MagicJack can't receive texts, it works like a landline. I repeatedly tried to contact PayPal's email support, but as I later found out, it's not operated by any people. They just scan for key words and quote the FAQ page on issues that had nothing to do with me. Even if I got back into my account earlier, I have no idea if I could have stopped the reversal. Also, I generally don't use the phone option if I have another choice first because most US operating hours are the hours I'm asleep in Korea or working. Not to mention the horrible wait times.

 

[Competa]

Not to be an ass or something, but dint Microsoft address this issue?
If you were, for some reason, banned from xbox live, you would still access all your games but off course, just single player. At least MS saw this coming, but after this story, I'm never using paypal to pay for something within a digital game store. Never.

This is really a fuck up on their side (Sony and Paypal), have you tried twittering around?

 

[danthefan]

Not to be an ass or something, but dint Microsoft address this issue?
If you were, for some reason, banned from xbox live, you would still access all your games but off course, just single player. At least MS saw this coming, but after this story, I'm never using paypal to pay for something within a digital game store. Never.

This is really a fuck up on their side (Sony and Paypal), have you tried twittering around?

That's more to do with cheating in online games surely? Completely different situation.

 

[Dictator93]

do.
not.
stop.
calling.

Yeah OP, do not give up and raise hell. If you believe you are in the right, continue fighting on.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

this could be the way they do things now because of people manipulating and using the service illegally or something. a small group of people always mess it up for everyone else.

That's a good point, but to not even phone/text the customer to ask if there's been any unauthorised use is pretty terrible by today's standards. I wouldn't class my bank as a particularly great one, but at least they have the common sense to text me if there's any charges that don't match my purchase habits/history.

They are horrible company because they want to protect customers and company from frauds? This way they are probably preventing hundreds frauds daily but sometimes they are wrong. Yes they could improve their system with notification email that will inform user about chargeback but Sony should communicate better with their customers too. Banning users from their content without explaining why they did it and without opportunity for customer to tell his side of story is unacceptable.

Banks are able to protect their customers without acting like tremendous arseholes, so no, I don't buy the argument that whatever they do is the in the best interest of their customers.

 

[SneakyStephan]

I'm sorry to hear that Op that is a lot of money down the drain:\

digital 'future' means you don't own any of your games (goes for all platforms) + walled gardens = you are at the mercy of some corporation that you gave your money to

 

[harrypmgaga]

When was the last time you contacted Valve about having the account unlocked? If it was between now and February 2013 did you mention the fact that chargebacks no longer result in accounts being locked out but instead they're placed in a restricted state for nine weeks? A long-winded request that you'd like to regain access to the account, complete with proof of ownership and an explanation that you'd be willing to accept the nine-week restriction period in addition to no longer being able to use the PayPal account for purchases (cards are blacklisted if they're used for chargebacks so presumably the same is true of PayPal) should do the trick.

Edit: Err, 2013, not 2012. Fixed.

Yep, a few months ago someone alerted me to that and I asked Steam to no avail. They basically said "tough luck", that the account was banned for good.

To prove the account is yours you need, for example, a boxed version with a Steam serial you redeemed on it. Userame and password are not usefull for this.

I have ID, bank statements showing Steam purchases, etc. I don't have a serial simply because I haven't ever owned any physical Valve/Steam games.

 

[Rapstah]

Back when Minecraft was new, Mojang had all transactions going through a Paypal account of some kind and Paypal eventually locked the account from transactions (possibly without locking more money coming into the account). You would think there would be such a limited amount of accounts suddenly getting millions of dollars that you could check every single case for an obvious legal source of the money first.

 

[JaseC]

Yep, a few months ago someone alerted me to that and I asked Steam to no avail. They basically said "tough luck", that the account was banned for good.

Ah, that's rough and it's rather nonsensical to leave accounts locked out due to chargebacks in such a state when more recent cases are punished less. Hopefully Valve realises as much at some point.

 

[harrypmgaga]

Ah, that's rough and it's rather nonsensical to leave accounts locked out due to chargebacks in such a state when more recent cases are punished less. Hopefully Valve realises as much at some point.

One can hope. All said, I'm bitter towards PayPal, not Valve. I get what their issue is. I wish PayPal would have handled the situation better but alas. This was years ago and I've moved on pretty much.

 

[JaseC]

One can hope. All said, I'm bitter towards PayPal, not Valve. I get what their issue is. I wish PayPal would have handled the situation better but alas. This was years ago and I've moved on pretty much.

Oh, definitely. It's something that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

[PotionBleue]

Again, this hasn't been true for Steam for a few years. You will only lose the ability to purchase new games until the issue is sorted. Old purchases are safe to download and play.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Valve-Allows-Banned-Players-Games,15447.html

We've had the worst case scenarios from Sony and Valve, now I'm curious, what happens with bans in the case of Microsoft and Nintendo digital purchases?

 

[Bigmac1910]

GOG is the only safe future for digital distribution, at least for single player games, as some multiplayer ones require registration anyway. I'm just hoping they'll be as big as Steam in the future with new releases as well.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=787652

My tale of woe! Was locked out for a month and unfortunately only got through to the terrible customer service when I started getting a little angry. Not how it should be.

 

[Altered Juice]

paypal fucked you up

 

[Brigandier]

Coming from someone who has worked for the largest mobile network in the world for 2.5 years as a business advisor in a call centre I can safely tell you that the person who said to you on the phone that he is as far as you can go with raising a complaint is absolute 100% bollocks and said person should be disciplined because technically he is saying he is a company executive.

Hierarchy of a call centre is usually as follows: Agent > Manager > Operation manager > Customer relations > Company executives > CEO

So basically that manager is saying Sony do not have a customer relations team which is absolute nonsense for a company of that size and this manager is also saying there is no manager managing him lololol sure.

Keep mithering them and ask for customer relations and bypass the clowns who just read TOS over and over like robots.

Or you can put pen to paper and send it to there head office addressed to customer relations just send it recorded so you know they recieved it and also keep a copy of said letter of complaint.

I hate companies that are against their customers when there has been a genuine error or mistake instead of working with them to resolve problems swiftly and getting cases like this closed.

 

[Noray]

One of the many reasons I've deleted my Paypal account entirely. They are a bunch of criminals.

 

[Lalalandia]

As Brigadier above me advises send a registered letter they represent a more serious 'escalation' of the issue than phone calls or e-mails. I work for a PC OEM and letters get results everything else is noise. Write to a named executive or to a senior job title (the former is preferred) their PA will read it and usually the 'settle this for a quiet life' effect kicks in. We've replaced lemon devices and more for a single letter when months of call centre pestering has proved ineffective.

 

[Tommi84]

the person who said to you on the phone that he is as far as you can go with raising a complaint is absolute 100% bollocks and said person should be disciplined because technically he is saying he is a company executive.

Ugh, no? What he said was:

He said he was the highest you could reach by phone

I will point you to the words 'BY PHONE'. Do you seriously suspect that the CEO of Sony would call one poor customer because his account was banned? Really? At some point your call will NOT be forwarded further (as long as you are not Bill Gates or President of any country). OP should send a letter

Not to mention the fact that OP already mentioned few situations that could lead to this: using VPN to get US ip even though he is in Korea, problems with Paypal.

 

[Cormano]

Have you tried calling them?

Did you even read the first line?

He said it right there.

Anyways, that sucks, hopefuly something will workout for you.

 

[Axass]

Call them until their ears bleed.

 

[stryke]

That's tough. Hope you get everything back.

 

[Caayn]

Wow, that sucks OP. Hope that you'll get your account, with all the purchases, back.

 

[Red_Kop]

Well, this sucks. But, sadly, it's not uncommon. Sony really need to sort themselves out in how they deal with fraud on their network.

Currently experiencing some extremely bad customer service from Sony UK.

Basically had £80+ stolen from my PSN wallet. Sony, after a 2 week investigation confirmed that I didn't make the purchases and action had been taken against those who did.

Great....BUT.....no refund to my wallet.

I phone them up and email...all I get is some drone reading the 'Terms of Service'...again, and again and again.

Asked to speak to a manager. Apparently no manager exists (seems a common lie reading this thread) and the decision is final. I didn't accept this and was promised a call back from a more senior figure...guess what, 5 days...no call back.

Awful service.

Sony's policy is unfair, of questionable legality, and extremely anti consumer.

Sony have been hacked in the past, and were fined for it. They didn't play safe with out personal data and financial details.

WE SHOULD ALL BE WORRIED that whether your account being compromised is your fault or Sony's fault...it will always be YOU (the user) who suffers the blame and foots the bill.

Sony's Terms of Service now states that YOU (the user) are responsible for all activity on your account. Meaning, even if Sony are at fault, they won't admit it and YOU are always liable. Adding to that insult, Sony will do absolutely nothing to help victims of fraud on their network beyond notifying them that they have been a victim of fraud (and placing the blame squarely upon the user).

Sony's Terms of Service are therefore of questionable legality as they are unfair and one sided in favour of themselves. It also doesn't consider their responsibilities to protect the user's data. It is anti-consumer and immoral, and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

 

[Moosehole]

If there's one thing I've come to understand about Sony's customer service, it is that persistence will win the day.

Unless there is something you're omitting, it sounds like an honest mix-up and you should give them all the details and keep calling and keep asking to talk to supervisors until you get results.

I wish you good luck.

 

[Ade]

Email jack_tretton@playstation.sony.com with "FAO CEO Complaints" as the subject.

 

[Danny 117]

Email jack_tretton@playstation.sony.com with "FAO CEO Complaints" as the subject.

He doesn't work at Sony anymore though. Unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Ade]

He doesn't work at Sony anymore though. Unless I'm mistaken.

Doesn't mean the email address is dead. That's one I know 100% to work, and giving it that subject will get it to where it needs to be.

 

[Respawn]

Talk to Shu about it on Twitter @Yosp. He's a helpful dude, although I don't know how much he can do.

Just link him to the thread. Give a brief explanation and ask if he can help.

 

[protomouse]

Never give up OP. I'm behind you 110%. Sony should first of all give proof of how you violated their ToS. Even if the ban can be justified, Sony should have no right to deny you goods that you legally bought without reimbursing your expenses in full. They have probably covered their own asses legally in the ToS, but that isn't a justification and does not mean you can't question it. If Sony at all value you as a customer, they should comply.

I'm very interested to hear how this pans out. Hopefully your voice will be heard and your request will be fulfilled in a manner satisfactory to you.

Yet another reason why digital should not be the future.

 

[Red_Kop]

He doesn't work at Sony anymore though. Unless I'm mistaken.

Yeah, I don't think so.

Would appreciate if anyone has any manager, CEO etc etc email address' or Twitter accounts I can contact in response to the £80 of fraudulent charges on my account, considering the support centre won't help and is totally useless. Sony EU/UK if possible. Thank you.

 

[Prezhulio]

God I'll never use paypal on a digital service like this, what a nightmare.

Actually I think I'll start using exclusively pre-paid cards at this point, if Sony/MS/valves recourse is a permaban for charge backs. Used to think people were overly paranoid about credit card use for identity theft reasons but this is more soul crushing due to the companies unwillingness to budge.

 

[JawzPause]

Shit man that sucks OP. If i was you I'd just be constantly phoning Sony until they sorted it out. The digital future is quite scary.

 

[Saint of Killers]

You have my sympathies (y'know, if you really didn't do anything wrong). Not only for losing all those games but because you have to deal with probably one of the worst customer care services on the planet. And PayPal doesn't sound like a lot of fun either.