Support NeoGAF

[SapientWolf]

In those examples, I've definitely seen people say things like "Darwin Award!" or "Helping the gene pool", stuff that implies that his death means a bonus for the human race because one less "stupid" person is in it.

Those people can be quoted and taken to task individually, but I think the overall sentiment is more indifference than bloodlust.

 

[The Technomancer]

Well, now we're just going in circles. Suffice to say, I disagree. I'm perfectly okay with the outcome of this how it lays.

WW, I love ya man, but I'd be a bit worried to see your list of what you consider "immanent threats" if a naked unarmed guy across the street is on it

 

[Yasae]

Well, now we're just going in circles. Suffice to say, I disagree. I'm perfectly okay with the outcome of this how it lays.

And some people aren't! Gosh, what a world.

 

[Sats]

Well, now we're just going in circles. Suffice to say, I disagree. I'm perfectly okay with the outcome of this how it lays.

Then I will respectfully have to say, I think you have a strange sense of retribution, justice, etc.

Why do you think Spider-Man ties up the bad guys and leaves a note for the cops? And he never kills? Because beating them into critical condition and leaving them a bloodied pulp would be extremely inhumane.

 

[WanderingWind]

And some people aren't! Gosh, what a world.

Yes? Do you think I'm trying to stop people from having their own opinions? Again. Grow the fuck up.

Then I will respectfully have to say, I think you have a strange sense of retribution, justice, etc.

Why do you think Spider-Man ties up the bad guys and leaves a note for the cops? And he never kills? Because beating them into critical condition and leaving them a bloodied pulp would be extremely inhumane.

I'm not equipped to deal with somebody who pulls the Spider-Man defense, to be honest. I don't know what to say.

WW, I love ya man, but I'd be a bit worried to see your list of what you consider "immanent threats" if a naked unarmed guy across the street is on it

Well, it's a naked guy stalking my kids and masturbating outside of my 13 year old daughter's window. Not some random naked dude just walking his iguana across the street.

 

[Sats]

I'm not equipped to deal with somebody who pulls the Spider-Man defense, to be honest. I don't know what to say.

I understand that it's a comic book and this is real life, but I still think it was worth mentioning. It didn't have to be Spider-Man, I guess. The point is, you shouldn't just hospitalize criminals, especially when they run away from you.

 

[WanderingWind]

I understand that it's a comic book and this is real life, but I still think it was worth mentioning. It didn't have to be Spider-Man, I guess. The point is, you shouldn't just hospitalize criminals, especially when they run away from you.

I mean, are we going to just ignore all his actions, including in physically assaulting the occupants of the house, up until the point in which he lost the fight that he started?

 

[The Technomancer]

I mean, are we going to just ignore all his actions, including in physically assaulting the occupants of the house, up until the point in which he lost the fight that he started?

I think a lot of us are just arguing from a position of matched violence.

 

[Sats]

I mean, are we going to just ignore all his actions, including in physically assaulting the occupants of the house, up until the point in which he lost the fight that he started?

Calling the cops is "ignoring him"?

And he didn't not "start a fight", he was grabbed, punched the person who grabbed him, and then fled.

 

[WanderingWind]

Calling the cops is "ignoring him"?

And he didn't not "start a fight", he was grabbed, punched the person who grabbed him, and then fled.

...that's not what that phrase means, my man. It means you can't downplay his actions into "some naked guy across the street." He was doing much more and did much more that lead to the violent encounter, including engaging in violence first.

 

[The Technomancer]

...that's not what that phrase means, my man. It means you can't downplay his actions into "some naked guy across the street." He was doing much more and did much more that lead to the violent encounter, including engaging in violence first.

This only gets you so far though, I feel. If he was a burglar who punched a guy and ran I would still have a problem with the homeowner shooting him in the back while he fled and that's really what this feels like.

 

[Sats]

...that's not what that phrase means, my man. It means you can't downplay his actions into "some naked guy across the street." He was doing much more and did much more that lead to the violent encounter, including engaging in violence first.

Technically, I don't think he engaged in violence first. One of the 3 men grabbed him, correct? Some would consider that the start of the physical force.

That said, even if he HAD started the fight, it still does not matter. He FLED. You do not chase after someone fleeing in an attempt to hurt them more. That is the exact moment all notions of "self-defense" go out the window. I'm honestly having trouble understanding how you can be okay with chasing after and beating someone close to death, regardless of what they did.

 

[WanderingWind]

This only gets you so far though, I feel. If he was a burglar who punched a guy and ran I would still have a problem with the homeowner shooting him in the back while he fled and that's really what this feels like.

Well, again, this guy was not a burglar and he wasn't shot in the back. It's a little strange that we have to keep downplaying every aspect of this here, isn't it?

Technically, I don't think he engaged in violence first. One of the 3 men grabbed him, correct? Some would consider that the start of the physical force.

That said, even if he HAD started the fight, it still does not matter. He FLED. You do not chase after someone fleeing in an attempt to hurt them more. That is the exact moment all notions of "self-defense" go out the window. I'm honestly having trouble understanding how you can be okay with chasing after and beating someone close to death, regardless of what they did.

Well, if helps any I'm not really understanding your position either. And yes, from any angle, he technically and realistically engaged in violence first. You can disagree that the responding violence was appropriate, but I'm not sure how this is even remotely debatable.

 

[The Technomancer]

If he had stayed and tried to confront them we absolutely would not be having this conversation. Oh I might still feel that the force was excessive (although perhaps not by much) but I would not be going to anywhere near these lengths to criticize it.

 

[Toparaman]

My two cents:

*removed just in case*

 

[Yasae]

We're not seriously arguing whether this is punitive justice, right? There's no argument there.

 

[Extra Sauce]

What?

You're advocating in favor of putting the man in a life-or-death situation, the outcome of which will be determined by factors that are out of your or his control (reaction time of first responders, health history, etc.)

Russian roulette would merely be a much more eccentric method to reach the same goal.

 

[Sats]

My two cents:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/dd12276313d6593e2f0cc8de4fcd746f/tumblr_mqpwz04Koi1qczbido1_500.gif

I can't imagine this being okay to post

 

[SolidSnakex]

Technically, I don't think he engaged in violence first. One of the 3 men grabbed him, correct? Some would consider that the start of the physical force.

I haven't seen a report that said he was grabbed. The mother said that her son went out to confront him when her daughter told him someone was looking at her through the window. When he went found the guy he asked him what he was doing and the guy punched him in the face and started running.

 

[Sats]

I haven't seen a report that said he was grabbed. The mother said that her son went out to confront him when her daughter told him someone was looking at her through the window. When he went found the guy he asked him what he was doing and the guy punched him in the face and started running.

Oh okay when you said "caught", I might have assumed he was grabbed.

Still, he fled.

 

[Devolution]

Family did wrong but at the same time knowing what I know and catching someone in the act beating off to my children outside their window? Rage mode. This is sexual predator nonsense. Next step of his would be waiting till the adults are out of the house in order to get at the daughters.

 

[The Technomancer]

Well, again, this guy was not a burglar and he wasn't shot in the back. It's a little strange that we have to keep downplaying every aspect of this here, isn't it?

The nature of the crime makes their anger completely understandable but I really don't feel that that translates to the "punishment" being right.

As for the shot in the back thing: this is effectively the same for me. Person is running in a deliberate attempt to flee. Check. Second person deliberately chooses to re-escalate level of violence? Check. The only difference was the weapon.

 

[Toparaman]

I can't imagine this being okay to post

Yeah, you're probably right.

 

[Derpstar]

I understand what he did was disgusting, but... Wow, beating a man (possibly) to death over that? Jeez, a little far...

 

[The Technomancer]

Family did wrong but at the same time knowing what I know and catching someone in the act beating off to my children outside their window? Rage mode. This is sexual predator nonsense. Next step of his would be waiting till the adults are out of the house in order to get at the daughters.

Absolutely. Jesus, its terrifying. I don't even know what I'd do in the father's situation.

 

[WanderingWind]

If he had stayed and tried to confront them we absolutely would not be having this conversation. Oh I might still feel that the force was excessive (although perhaps not by much) but I would not be going to anywhere near these lengths to criticize it.

Then part of the issue for you is that the confrontation didn't take place at a place of the offenders choosing.

Again, I'm pretty okay with that not being in his control. So we're back to the level of violence used and I think we just fundamentally agree with that.

Hey, if the guy dies, which is by no means guaranteed, then we can revisit this.

 

[Sats]

Then part of the issue for you is that the confrontation didn't take place at a place of the offenders choosing.

Again, I'm pretty okay with that not being in his control. So we're back to the level of violence used and I think we just fundamentally agree with that.

Hey, if the guy dies, which is by no means guaranteed, then we can revisit this.

No, I think his issue was with the fact that the peeper was actively fleeing and avoiding confrontation. Why do you keep ignoring that?

 

[The Technomancer]

Then part of the issue for you is that the confrontation didn't take place at a place of the offenders choosing.

Again, I'm pretty okay with that not being in his control. So we're back to the level of violence used and I think we just fundamentally agree with that.

Hey, if the guy dies, which is by no means guaranteed, then we can revisit this.

Its more that I believe the right thing to do is to take every opportunity to de-escalate violence.

 

[WanderingWind]

No, I think his issue was with the fact that the peeper was actively fleeing and avoiding confrontation. Why do you keep ignoring that?

Because throwing punches after being caught doing what he did is very much not "avoiding confrontation." That's precisely the opposite of "avoiding confrontation." It's very much seeking out and engaging in confrontational behavior.

Its more that I believe the right thing to do is to take every opportunity to de-escalate violence.

Like I said, fair enough. We just don't agree. I'm cool with that.

 

[aly]

Family did wrong but at the same time knowing what I know and catching someone in the act beating off to my children outside their window? Rage mode. This is sexual predator nonsense. Next step of his would be waiting till the adults are out of the house in order to get at the daughters.

I agree. We actually had a problem with a peeping guy once. I was in Middle school at the time and the guy was going around the neighborhood masturbating behind bushes near kid's bedrooms. The only reason the police caught him was him finally trying to grab someone. He wasn't crazy either, just a predator. I couldn't imagine being in this family's position. I mean its really hard to sympathize with the guy.

 

[Devolution]

No, I think his issue was with the fact that the peeper was actively fleeing and avoiding confrontation. Why do you keep ignoring that?

He's not just a peeper. He's a dude who intruded on private property to spy and masturbate to girls. I'm emphatically serious when I say this behavior leads to worse acts. And who knows how many times he's done this. He shattered the girl's sense of safety, in her own home, forever in order to satisfy his sick sexual urges. There is no getting that back. Chances are after he got his rocks off doing this he'd still need more and it would lead to kidnapping someone.

 

[The Technomancer]

Like I said, fair enough. We just don't agree. I'm cool with that.

Yup, I just wanted to be clear

 

[Sats]

He's not just a peeper. He's a dude who intruded on private property to spy and masturbate to girls. I'm emphatically serious when I say this behavior leads to worse acts. And who knows how many times he's done this. He shattered the girl's sense of safety, in her own home, forever in order to satisfy his sick sexual urges. There is no getting that back.

I completely understand that. Earlier in the thread, I had the stance that he may be mentally unstable, and that his behavior doesn't necessarily lead to worse acts. I have reconsidered and changed my opinions in both of these regards.

But it still doesn't justify almost killing the man, especially after chasing him down the street.

 

[Devolution]

I completely understand that. Earlier in the thread, I had the stance that he may be mentally unstable, and that his behavior doesn't necessarily lead to worse acts. I have reconsidered and changed my opinions in both of these regards.

But it still doesn't justify almost killing the man, especially after chasing him down the street.

It doesn't justify it but it's fairly easy to sit here and rationalize what you'd do when you catch someone beating off to your child outside of their window.

 

[The Technomancer]

It doesn't justify it but it's fairly easy to sit here and rationalize what you'd do when you catch someone beating off to your child outside of their window.

True. Which is why I'm somewhat less concerned with what they did and more with how the justice system is going to react to it after the fact.

 

[Sats]

It doesn't justify it but it's fairly easy to sit here and rationalize what you'd do when you catch someone beating off to your child outside of their window.

I'm more likely to call the police on someone who is outside of my actual house, than to walk outside and confront them on my own, personally. Like, if a guy was outside my daughter's window and actively knocking on it, trying to get in, I'm not going to go outside and ask him what the hell he is trying to do. I'm just gonna stay inside and call the cops.

 

[Devolution]

I'm more likely to call the police on someone who is outside of my actual house, than to walk outside and confront them on my own, personally.

I'd probably beat his ass if the bf let me. I'm not going to lie about it. No regrets either. This is the kind of person who escalates into rape.

 

[aly]

I'm more likely to call the police on someone who is outside of my actual house, than to walk outside and confront them on my own, personally. Like, if a guy was outside my daughter's window and actively knocking on it, trying to get in, I'm not going to go outside and ask him what the hell he is trying to do. I'm just gonna stay inside and call the cops.

Depending on where you are, the police could be down right useless. I'm not waiting to see if they could get in either.

 

[Derwind]

It doesn't justify it but it's fairly easy to sit here and rationalize what you'd do when you catch someone beating off to your child outside of their window.

That and physically assaulting a member of your family as well. Things can quickly escalate when all that is going through your head.

 

[WanderingWind]

I'm more likely to call the police on someone who is outside of my actual house, than to walk outside and confront them on my own, personally. Like, if a guy was outside my daughter's window and actively knocking on it, trying to get in, I'm not going to go outside and ask him what the hell he is trying to do. I'm just gonna stay inside and call the cops.

I wish I had as much faith in the competency of my local police as you do. I'd say in a perfect world, this may be the way to handle it.

 

[Devolution]

Depending on where you are, the police could be down right useless. I'm not waiting to see if they could get in either.

This is a good point too. In some areas cops are the absolute worst at handling these kinds of situations. Not to mention this guy would just be back to what he does upon release. We don't really treat sexual predators like this seriously until they have a long rap sheet. It's disgusting.

 

[Sats]

I wish I had as much faith in the competency of my local police as you do. I'd say in a perfect world, this may be the way to handle it.

I'm willing to admit I may be spoiled. Howard County has very good police.

 

[SolidSnakex]

True. Which is why I'm somewhat less concerned with what they did and more with how the justice system is going to react to it after the fact.

I doubt that they could find a jury that would convict them of anything that would put them in jail.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Can we all agree that chasing the naked peeping tom down the street after he tried to escape and beating him within an inch of his life is the understandable impulse that many if not most dads/brothers would have, but that it doesn't necessarily make it right?

And regardless of anyone's opinion in this thread, I'm pretty sure the family committed a crime in the eyes of the law by doing that. Though I live in Canada so I don't know how this is going to play out for them.

 

[Derwind]

Can we all agree that chasing the naked peeping tom down the street after he tried to escape and beating him within an inch of his life is the understandable impulse that many if not most dads/brothers would have, but that it doesn't necessarily make it right?

And regardless of anyone's opinion in this thread, I'm pretty sure the family committed a crime in the eyes of the law by doing that. Though I live in Canada so I don't know how this is going to play out for them.

I don't think anyone says its right apart from like 3 or so posters.

Its easy to understand the family's perspective though. I don't have much sympathy in me for the peeping tom either considering he trespassed on someones property, was completely nude, sexually gratified himself to minors and physically assaulted one of the family members. Thats...yeah...

:/

 

[ShinobiFist]

Anything to protect my family. Logic doesn't kick in if I encounter a similar situation.

 

[Son ov Timett]

He's better off than Jesse is going to be.

 

[EloquentM]

You're advocating in favor of putting the man in a life-or-death situation, the outcome of which will be determined by factors that are out of your or his control (reaction time of first responders, health history, etc.)

Russian roulette would merely be a much more eccentric method to reach the same goal.

Except I wasn't and stated so many times on the last page, hence the "what?".

 

[MonkeyKing]

Call it what you will. If I found a naked man in the bushes, peeping inside at my daughters.....I'm beating his ass. My girls mean the world to me, their safety and protection is my highest priority. Fuck this pedophile and a reasonable level of restraint in dealing with him.

I am perfectly ok with this brain damaged predator being beaten within an inch of his life. This is a foreseeable outcome when you nakedly trespass on someone's property and get caught jerking off while looking at their children. Thats a bad moment to rely on the victim's sense of justice or moderation.

 

[Baki]

Protecting your family from a naked peeping tom is chasing him off. Nearly beating him to death is vigilantism. The attackers should be jailed.

I doubt they were in a rational state of mind.