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[SolVanderlyn]

Danzo never got over the burn from Sarutobi being chosen over him. I bet if he was chosen back then he never would have turned into the grade A jerk that he was for most of the series.

Young Danzo actually seemed like a pretty likeable, if not overly stern, guy. Old Danzo was nursing an old wound for the rest of his life. Not to mention that delving into forbidden transplant jutsus and running an organization like Root had to have some effect on his character...

 

[Winterfang]

Ive been reading the thread and all the spoilers to try and get interested in the series again (couldn't get more than 10 episodes into shipuuden), and it honestly seems just really hard to follow. How do you guys manage to keep track of all of this?

Is actually pretty simple even with all the twists. Because it happened at a steady pace. For someone that's say 100 chapters behind, the conversation might as well be nonsensical.

That's kind of the point. He was best suited for the position and is probably the most talented, humble, peaceful minded ninja that was available, but he had to give everything up to do what he thought was right.

Speaking of what he did, he had to be really, really strong to take out the entire Uchiha clan. I know we don't know much about them, but his dad is at least insinuated to be a pretty competent ninja, and there were probably a good amount of jounins at Asuma or Kakashi's level. I know Madara can summon meteors and Hashirama can summon wood dragons and giant gates and that they can even alter the landscape with their awesomeness, but I think Itachi had to be at least approaching their level. He was also a good deal younger than both of them at their prime.

Most Uchiha's don't awaken even the basic Sharingan, the big majority of them where just regular people working in shops and stuff. Someone like Itachi that awoke the MS was easily above all of them.

Take in mind also two more things.

1- He didn't did it alone. (Masked Man also help him)
2- Madera and Hashirama where OP because they where reincarnations of the sage's sons. No other Uchiha or Senju where comparable.
3- Element of surprise. Most of them where sleeping in beds, not a care in the world.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Danzo never got over the burn from Sarutobi being chosen over him. I bet if he was chosen back then he never would have turned into the grade A jerk that he was for most of the series.

Young Danzo actually seemed like a pretty likeable, if not overly stern, guy. Old Danzo was nursing an old wound for the rest of his life. Not to mention that delving into forbidden transplant jutsus and running an organization like Root had to have some effect on his character...

I don't think jealousy was what drove him to solve everything by killing people. He was just an extremist asshole. We can't let every antagonist's characterization revolve entirely around one event.

And why do people sometimes refer to Tobi as Masked Man? Seems odd.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

If Naruto x Hinata doesn't happen, Kishi is getting a letter. That is all for now.

You batter start writing, because it´s not happening, even though i want it to happen.

 

[Winterfang]

I don't think jealousy was what drove him to solve everything by killing people. He was just an extremist asshole. We can't let every antagonist's characterization revolve entirely around one event.

And why do people sometimes refer to Tobi as Masked Man? Seems odd.

That's the official name for Tobi with this Mask

It's just an easy way for people to know, the events happened in the past.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Most Uchiha's don't awaken even the basic Sharingan, the big majority of them where just regular people working in shops and stuff. Someone like Itachi that awoke the MS was easily above all of them.

Take in mind also two more things.

1- He didn't did it alone. (Masked Man also help him)
2- Madera and Hashirama where OP because they where reincarnations of the sage's sons. No other Uchiha or Senju where comparable.
3- Element of surprise. Most of them where sleeping in beds, not a care in the world.

I don't know about that, they obviously had enough force to plan a coup d'etat on the rest of the village, and there's always a good amount of Sharingan users shown in flashbacks of the clan. The three guys who questioned Itachi all had full strength Sharingan (three tomoe), his dad had it, and I'm sure others had it, too. These guys don't look like they're messing around:

You do have a point with the people being in their beds, though.

 

[Khezu]

Before the war arc, Sasuke was treated way better then Naruto, and had significantly more interesting fights.

Oro, Deidara, Itachi, Killer Bee, the Kages, and then Danzo.
Oro was kinda weak, but the other fights were fully fleshed out and interesting.

Naruto only had the Pain fight, and to be honest, it wasn't a great fight.
It started off good, but too many things got in the way and took the spotlight away from Naruto. Too many toads, Hinata, another fucking Kyuubi fight, and then the weird Minato intermission. The end with Naruto vs Deva realm was pretty good though.

The best part? In the anime, all the budget went to Hinata and the Kyuubi, so Naruto's parts of the fight ended up looking like shit.

All of Sasuke's fights were well animated and looked great.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Most Uchiha's don't awaken even the basic Sharingan, the big majority of them where just regular people working in shops and stuff. Someone like Itachi that awoke the MS was easily above all of them.

This is a pretty big part of it. I have no doubt Sasuke and Itachi's father probably had, but I think they mention it had been many generations since someone had activated the Mangekyo before Itachi did it, and he was truly a prodigy. There's also a huge gap between "competant ninja" and "strongest in generations". All of the Uchiha who were ninja were very skilled, and probably quite a few had the basic Sharingen, but only a few were on par for Kakashi (not technicaly an Uchiha but impressive using their signature skillset), Itachi, Sasuke, and Obito, let alone something like Madara. They do a poor job explaining it but not every member of a given clan was a top tier ninja, they juse happen to focus on the signature members of each clan (Neiji, Sasuke, Itachi, Nagato, etc.).

 

[Kusagari]

If any of the Uchiha clan back at the time of the massacre were worth something then why didn't Kabuto try to revive them? All you ever hear about is how good Itachi and Shisui were.

I really doubt any of the Uchiha, besides Itachi and Shisui, were above average jounin level.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

The massacre was part of the series from the very start, so it was written before all of this insanity with ghost samurai armor, unquenchable flames, and other bullshit. Presumably Itachi was just a really damn good ninja in the most basic sense, rather than the current "He can like, summon a giant statue that blows up the moon and then rewinds time to before his opponent was conceived."

 

[Winterfang]

I don't know about that, they obviously had enough force to plan a coup d'etat on the rest of the village, and there's always a good amount of Sharingan users shown in flashbacks of the clan. The three guys who questioned Itachi all had full strength Sharingan (three tomoe), his dad had it, and I'm sure others had it, too. These guys don't look like they're messing around:

You do have a point with the people being in their beds, though.

I just see a bunch of fodder. Itachi's MS is the reason he was an S-rank ninja, the MS is leagues above the regular Sharingan, when Sasuke awoke him he suddenly was able to fight off 5 Hokages and lived (with help).

Is like the equivalent of giving someone a tail beast arguably.

I'm going to bed, woo! I just blew my Naruto Manga load today, I wasn't able to discuss the series in months!!

 

[Tathanen]

Ya know for all the "Kaguya came out of nowhere," it's important to realize that she's basically the ten-tails, the resurrection of which was the goal of basically the whole manga. The motivations have changed as the antagonists have changed, but gedo mazou, ten tails, sacred tree, Kaguya, really all one plot point from the start. Just think of her as the ten-tails' final sexy form.

 

[DragonSworne]

The massacre was part of the series from the very start, so it was written before all of this insanity with ghost samurai armor, unquenchable flames, and other bullshit. Presumably Itachi was just a really damn good ninja in the most basic sense, rather than the current "He can like, summon a giant statue that blows up the moon and then rewinds time to before his opponent was conceived."

The unquenchable fire was around for a long time. Around during Itacho's first appearances.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

The unquenchable fire was around for a long time. Around during Itacho's first appearances.

I forgot. I haven't seen it in so long and Toonami brilliantly decided to restart the series before the chunin exams were even halfway over.

 

[Kusagari]

Ya know for all the "Kaguya came out of nowhere," it's important to realize that she's basically the ten-tails, the resurrection of which was the goal of basically the whole manga. The motivations have changed as the antagonists have changed, but gedo mazou, ten tails, sacred tree, Kaguya, really all one plot point from the start. Just think of her as the ten-tails' final sexy form.

Absolutely none of that existed in Part 1.

 

[cyborg009]

That's kind of the point. He was best suited for the position and is probably the most talented, humble, peaceful minded ninja that was available, but he had to give everything up to do what he thought was right.

Speaking of what he did, he had to be really, really strong to take out the entire Uchiha clan. I know we don't know much about them, but his dad is at least insinuated to be a pretty competent ninja, and there were probably a good amount of jounins at Asuma or Kakashi's level. I know Madara can summon meteors and Hashirama can summon wood dragons and giant gates and that they can even alter the landscape with their awesomeness, but I think Itachi had to be at least approaching their level. He was also a good deal younger than both of them at their prime.

He had obito help, one of the episodes you'll see him surrounded by sharingans in jars.

 

[MasterSheen]

I forgot. I haven't seen it in so long and Toonami brilliantly decided to restart the series before the chunin exams were even halfway over.

They had a decision to make between airing the rest of the original Naruto or airing Shippuden along with the first 52 eps of old Naruto.

 

[Zantetsuken]

I miss Jiraiya and his perverted antics.
He was by far my favorite character in the series.

I can’t believe Kabuto didn’t summon him through Edo Tensei. Would have been awesome to fight against Naruto. The feels.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Absolutely none of that existed in Part 1.

Barely any of the overarching story existed in part 1.

The part 2 hints in part 1 were:

-Itachi and Kisame mentioned as belonging to Akatsuki, and wanting to capture Naruto

-The Uchiha tablet

-Itachi's weird reasoning for murdering everyone

-Itachi's black fire mentioned as being abnormal/unique

And the biggest one, which only sort of counts because it was answered in Kakashi Gaiden, which was technically in between parts 1 and 2,

-Kakashi having a Sharingan

Madara was mentioned really early on in part 2, though, when the Nine Tails is talking to Sasuke inside that cage world.

 

[Kusagari]

I can’t believe Kabuto didn’t summon him through Edo Tensei. Would have been awesome to fight against Naruto. The feels.

Kabuto mentioned that he couldn't recover Jiraiya's body.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

They had a decision to make between airing the rest of the original Naruto or airing Shippuden along with the first 52 eps of old Naruto.

So, what? They got Shippuden, but then had to restart Naruto, then it goes away after 52 episodes? What even happened?

 

[Zantetsuken]

Before the war arc, Sasuke was treated way better then Naruto, and had significantly more interesting fights.

Oro, Deidara, Itachi, Killer Bee, the Kages, and then Danzo.
Oro was kinda weak, but the other fights were fully fleshed out and interesting.

Naruto only had the Pain fight, and to be honest, it wasn't a great fight.
It started off good, but too many things got in the way and took the spotlight away from Naruto. Too many toads, Hinata, another fucking Kyuubi fight, and then the weird Minato intermission. The end with Naruto vs Deva realm was pretty good though.

The best part? In the anime, all the budget went to Hinata and the Kyuubi, so Naruto's parts of the fight ended up looking like shit.

All of Sasuke's fights were well animated and looked great.

Naruto was always nerfed in power in some way. 5 min sage mode; few minutes kurama mode. The only thing he had going in the beginning was clones, but even then the majority of them were wiped out. I had hoped to see some more wind type jutsu from Kishimoto for Naruto.

 

[Zantetsuken]

Kabuto mentioned that he couldn't recover Jiraiya's body.

I probably missed that part then. Thanks. Did he mention it before the war started?

 

[Dr. Malik]

I'm sure it wouldnt have been hard for Kabuto to find strains of Jiraiya's DNA in the local bathhouses

 

[MasterSheen]

So, what? They got Shippuden, but then had to restart Naruto, then it goes away after 52 episodes? What even happened?

I don't know, they'll probably rerun it again. I don't know why it was decided to end it there either but there it is. They seemed to have made the right choice.

 

[Tathanen]

Absolutely none of that existed in Part 1.

Part 1 had virtually no overarching plot beyond Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry. The Akatsuki were at least introduced early on tho as hunting Naruto for "some reason," and very early into part 2 was their bijuu-hunting gedo-mazou-ressurecting plot established.

 

[Kusagari]

I probably missed that part then. Thanks. Did he mention it before the war started?

I think he mentioned it to Tobi/Obito around the same time he talked about wanting to revive Shisui.

Part 1 had virtually no overarching plot beyond Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry. The Akatsuki were at least introduced early on tho as hunting Naruto for "some reason," and very early into part 2 was their bijuu-hunting gedo-mazou-ressurecting plot established.

But remember that knew nothing about the Gedo Mazou's significance to the Ten Tails for most of Part 2. For much of the series we only knew of it as a container Pain was using to store the bijuu. His plan never once detailed the Ten Tails.

 

[neurosisxeno]

But remember that knew nothing about the Gedo Mazou's significance to the Ten Tails for most of Part 2. For much of the series we only knew of it as a container Pain was using to store the bijuu. His plan never once detailed the Ten Tails.

If I'm not mistaken the idea of collecting all the Bijuu for the sake of world domination was revealed pretty early in Part 2. The exact details were never revealed but if they had been it would have been like a weird Bond Villain moment, "now that I have you here, let me explain to you me entire world domination plan!"

 

[Kusagari]

If I'm not mistaken the idea of collecting all the Bijuu for the sake of world domination was revealed pretty early in Part 2. The exact details were never revealed but if they had been it would have been like a weird Bond Villain moment, "now that I have you here, let me explain to you me entire world domination plan!"

Pain's exact plan is detailed numerous times as him wanting to use the Bijuu to quell all war. Using the Ten Tails in this plan would have made complete sense and its introduction at an earlier point would have made its sudden importance feel like less of an asspull.

 

[ReiGun]

Sasuke is a punk ass bitch and I hate how the creator treats him like the golden child. His redemption is so absurd, he has done nothing but caused pain to others, used, left for dead and outright tried to kill many people. They can only be written off on technicalities the same way some jerk who deserves to be in jail for hurting many people gets off. You can't show one instance where he truly did anything good for anyone else out of the pure sincere kindness of his heart.

And unfortunately this series will probably end with him being the most undeserving Hokage. Naruto having already crossed everything off his bucket list except being Hokage will make some sacrifice and go the spirit world with all the tailed beasts and be made the honorary 6th Hokage with Sasuke the ruling 7th. The only thing that woud bring a smile to my face is that Ino and Sakura realize hes the jerk he really is, Sakura ends up with Rock Lee, Ino ends up with Choji and the Sauce ends up with TenTen.

Ten Ten has done nothing to deserve this.

 

[SuperAndroid17]

Ten Ten has done nothing to deserve this.

In a nutshell, yeah!

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Team Gai really didn't do anything in part 2 besides get captured in Kisame's water bubbles. Gai excluded, of course.

 

[The Silver]

Gai and Lee always have the best fights, shame they got shafted so much.

Gai giving Madara that work was the best part of the ninja war.

 

[Village]

Sasuke is a punk ass bitch and I hate how the creator treats him like the golden child. His redemption is so absurd, he has done nothing but caused pain to others, used, left for dead and outright tried to kill many people. They can only be written off on technicalities the same way some jerk who deserves to be in jail for hurting many people gets off. You can't show one instance where he truly did anything good for anyone else out of the pure sincere kindness of his heart.

And unfortunately this series will probably end with him being the most undeserving Hokage. Naruto having already crossed everything off his bucket list except being Hokage will make some sacrifice and go the spirit world with all the tailed beasts and be made the honorary 6th Hokage with Sasuke the ruling 7th. The only thing that woud bring a smile to my face is that Ino and Sakura realize hes the jerk he really is, Sakura ends up with Rock Lee, Ino ends up with Choji and the Sauce ends up with TenTen.

You mean like let go his revegence to help with a greater cause... the thing he is doing right now?

 

[Laughing Banana]

You guys that seriously think that in the end Sasuke will become Hokage need to get your heads checked out.

I mean WTF.

 

[damisa]

You guys that seriously think that in the end Sasuke will become Hokage need to get your heads checked out.

I mean WTF.

Sasuke's crimes aren't any worse than Gaara's who already became a kage. Sasuke will be a hero after the war. He's already been forgiven by Naruto which is the only thing that matters

 

[Sai]

While Sasuke's stirred up quite a bit of tension around various countries, the only blood he's got on his hands are from a bunch of fodder Samurai, and a corrupt, tentative Hokage. Gaara's definitely gotten off with much worse, and look at the way things turned out for him.

It's not like Sasuke's ever been allowed to do anything that's made him completely irredeemable. I don't see him becoming Hokage either, but he's not going to be left to the wayside; Rikudo Sennin made a point of this whole feud starting with his neglect of Indra, I doubt Naruto will follow suit.

 

[Pein]

The though that Naruto would ever get passed on hokage for Sasuke is ridiculous. Sasuke might be a hero but people are gonna remember Naruto like they remember the rikudo, and Sauce is gonna be left to the way side like Hamura.


Another thing, Danzo is one of the best characters in the series. I could only hope for a seinen manga with Danzo and the foundation doing real ninja shit.

 

[Sai]

Gotta say that I kind of cringe reading some of the summaries of plot points in this thread. I understand some of the feelings being expressed, as Naruto's plot and abilities haven't developed in a way I've found all that agreeable either... But some of you are making things sound ten times worse than they actually are. >_<

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Gotta say that I kind of cringe reading some of the summaries of plot points in this thread. I understand some of the feelings being expressed, as Naruto's plot and abilities haven't developed in a way I've found all that agreeable either... But some of you are making things sound ten times worse than they actually are. >_<

Yep. Is that why you are not posting much in the manga thread?

 

[Tathanen]

But remember that knew nothing about the Gedo Mazou's significance to the Ten Tails for most of Part 2. For much of the series we only knew of it as a container Pain was using to store the bijuu. His plan never once detailed the Ten Tails.

Sure but that doesn't really affect my point? No good storyteller will just lay all true meanings and motivations on the table at the beginning. My point is that there was a direct line to Kaguya, she's the identity of the series' primary mcguffin, she didn't descend from the moon in the final hour with no relation to anything.

 

[Jigolo]

Gotta say that I kind of cringe reading some of the summaries of plot points in this thread. I understand some of the feelings being expressed, as Naruto's plot and abilities haven't developed in a way I've found all that agreeable either... But some of you are making things sound ten times worse than they actually are. >_<

It's Naruto though. The shounen everybody loves to hate.

 

[Tizoc]

Rock LeeXSakura is never gonna happen is it? Poor dude can't win fights and will forever be friendzoned...

 

[levious]

Absolutely none of that existed in Part 1.

Gedo mazou did.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Sure but that doesn't really affect my point? No good storyteller will just lay all true meanings and motivations on the table at the beginning. My point is that there was a direct line to Kaguya, she's the identity of the series' primary mcguffin, she didn't descend from the moon in the final hour with no relation to anything.

The problem is that Kishimoto isn't a good storyteller. Kaguya didn't come out of nowhere, with all the crap about the Sage going on lately, but right now we don't really have an explanation as to what the damn Ten Tails, even though it's the end goal of basically every villainous plotline. Eat fruit -> Get power -> Get jealous -> ???? -> Giant monster. Why is the giant tree the "true form" of the Ten Tails if the Ten Tails is just something made by Kaguya? Or "Kaguya is the Ten 'Tails" or some nonsense. Why are Kaguya, the tree, and the Ten Tails all the same? Or maybe I just can't tell because the recent chapters are so nonsensical and expect us to believe everything the author/ Black Zetsu says.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I didn't really hate Sakura, just recognized that she was fucking worthless as a character and was probably there because the editors wanted a "tough" female lead.


... And then the fake confession scene happened.

I also don't undrestand the most recent chapter - How can Sakura act as a chakra battery? She used up the reservoir she had built up over 3 years to attack the ten tails mini army... and that was like an hour or two ago (if even that) in the story.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Sasuke won't be Hokage for one simple reason, the people of Konoha love Naruto. He is their hero. And he is perfectly capable. At the same time it's hard to imagine Sasuke saying alright you can have it I'ma just chill. So some sort of confrontation will happen. Could be interesting.

Or they'll become the first ever Hokage team.

 

[Host Samurai]

Its funny how the Akatuski done goofed. Funny how they want to go through with the Moons Eye Plan only to give up on it. Obito and Kubuto are like "What the fuck did I just do?" Madara is probably going to think the same. They resurrected some ridiculous alien looking God. I am sure they didn't plan on that happening.

Its just pretty crazy just how this final boss escalated

1) Tobi with the tailed beast and Edo Madara
2) Obito God mode
3) Madara 10 tails
4) Madara God mode
5) Kaguya lady or whatever her name is

 

[Sai]

Yep. Is that why you are not posting much in the manga thread?

That's a significant part of it.

I read a ton of manga, and I occasionally comment on a random one here 'n there in the manga thread, but Dragon Ball and Naruto have been the only two I've desired to actively discuss with others... And there's not much productive discussion about it to be had there; Bleach and Naruto are being constantly trashed more because of a running joke or trend, rather than their actual quality. And while I love One Piece, I don't enjoy talking about it with anyone but my friends because everywhere else, it's like this:

Imagine if naruto stayed good for it whole run. That is one piece.

Spoiler

It really good.

Edit:

If you want to know about ONE PIECE, go to the One Piece thread. Is already bad enough in the community thread when is just people shitting on Naruto every week and praising One Piece like it's the second coming of Jesus. I really want a place where I can discuss the actually events in the manga and not deal with manga wars.

That mess gets too annoying after a while. I'm actually kind of happy that HxH has these extended hiatuses every once in a while, or it would probably be the same.

Gedo mazou did.

I don't think we were introduced to Ged&#333; Maz&#333; until about a dozen chapters into Part 2.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

wow glad theres a dedicated thread now. Will post thoughts soon.